Two things needed to build any Football Program

[GMG24]

Great read. 

[VideoEagle]

Very true. The two are tine and patients if you are going to build it right and not cheat. 

 

EDIT: Need to re-read before I post! Patience is needed to build a football team. Patients are needed to build a medical practice. 

Edited December 1, 2016 by VideoEagle

[Ben Gooding]

Sounds like coach speak for a guy that just finished his 9th year at Duke and has a overall record there of 52-61. 4 bowl appearances and 1-3 record in those. 

He did win 10 games at Duke in 2013 and had a string of 3 winning seasons (and only winning seasons at Duke) starting that same season to 2015. The wheels might be coming off a little for him though. Finished 4-8 this year and no real hope to grab onto moving into 2017. 

[GMG_Dallas]

29 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

Finished 4-8 this year and no real hope to grab onto moving into 2017. 

Their RS Freshman starting QB finished the season with 2836 passing yards on 62.8% completion with 16 passing TDs and 9 interceptions, 486 rushing yards and 7 rushing TDs making 23 totals Tds to 9 interceptions. By the way, he had 8 interceptions in his first 5 career starts including 5 against Virginia and had 1 interception the final 7 games. I'd say they have hope and his name is Daniel Jones.

[GMG24]

10 hours ago, Ben Gooding said:

Sounds like coach speak for a guy that just finished his 9th year at Duke and has a overall record there of 52-61. 4 bowl appearances and 1-3 record in those. 

He did win 10 games at Duke in 2013 and had a string of 3 winning seasons (and only winning seasons at Duke) starting that same season to 2015. The wheels might be coming off a little for him though. Finished 4-8 this year and no real hope to grab onto moving into 2017. 

And you sound like some fanatic that thinks everything should fix itself immediately with perfect results.  What a joke. 

[VideoEagle]

10 hours ago, GMG24 said:

And you sound like some fanatic that thinks everything should fix itself immediately with perfect results.  What a joke. 

Yes. 

There was a study an a few years back that looked at 10 to 14 years of FBS records on new coaches. It was rare for a losing program to turn around in less than three years, something like less than 1 in 5 did it. To many football fans, that just means 80% of college coaches are bad and if you just get "the right one" miracles are certain to happen. I suspect some of those same fans have lotto wins as a significant part of their retirement plans. 

This does NOT mean a coach has forever but expecting first or second year miracles is like expecting three hard 10s when playing craps. Yes, it happens but simple math shows it doesn't happen often! 

We need to recognize we are very lucky this year and hope the luck continues in a bowl game. 

[Ben Gooding]

11 hours ago, GMG24 said:

And you sound like some fanatic that thinks everything should fix itself immediately with perfect results.  What a joke. 

Not really. I don't pay too much attention to W/L's in early years. I pay attention to detail such as preparation, game planning, play calling, competitiveness, defense alignment  etc. 

There are a lot of positives to take away from this season as a UNT fan, there is no denying that. If we can't see and admit the negatives then that is denial. Let's be a realistic fan base, I get it. But let's also point out the blatant discrepancies when they are there. Getting stoned to death by a 1-man team is a monumental problem. Coaches knew the 1-man challenge going into that game and they had 0 answers for it to the tune of 301 rushing yards. That's significant and telling. 

[greenminer]

1 hour ago, Ben Gooding said:

.That's significant and telling. 

That we are very young and inconsistent?

Good grief, Bama lost to LaMo. It didn't mean they were not Alabama, or they're program model was messed up.

Let's see what this program does in 2017, then we can see what the UTEP loss meant.

[Ben Gooding]

1 minute ago, greenminer said:

That we are very young and inconsistent?

Good grief, Bama lost to LaMo. It didn't mean they were not Alabama, or they're program model was messed up.

Let's see what this program does in 2017, then we can see what the UTEP loss meant.

No. I am going to attach my standards to 2016 because that is the season we are currently in. There is no excuse for that UTEP loss, and it's not that we lost but the manner in which we lost. UNT's issues are because people will blindly follow the leader (whoever the hell it may be at any given time) without any regard for results. 

[greenminer]

Just now, Ben Gooding said:

No. I am going to attach my standards to 2016 because that is the season we are currently in. There is no excuse for that UTEP loss, and it's not that we lost but the manner in which we lost. UNT's issues are because people will blindly follow the leader (whoever the hell it may be at any given time) without any regard for results. 

Not sure what you want. Shit games happen, even in the right system. You seem determined to hammer your expectations point home, so have at it. I think it's wasted energy until we see more from this AD and football staff.

[Ben Gooding]

4 minutes ago, greenminer said:

Not sure what you want. Shit games happen, even in the right system. You seem determined to hammer your expectations point home, so have at it. I think it's wasted energy until we see more from this AD and football staff.

This AD? This AD isn't going to win any football games. Hell, this AD is off the hook for every single hire in this athletic program for he hired none of them. 

I am not trying to hammer any point home. It just appears the sentiment for the average Mean Green fan is, "Shucks, well we only had 1 win last year" after losing badly vs a very winnable opponent. It boggles my mind. No one cares. It was just a shrug of the shoulders, well we have 5 wins and that's good enough for me. Expectations drive results. Not MY expectations, but the entire fan bases expectations as a whole. And until that happens people around here will be well suited and pleased for a 5 win season. Yes, it has been a good turnaround, but that still doesn't just excuse the performance of the team AND coaching staff in El Paso.That was a horrid display of coaching and effort.  

[Mean Green 93-98]

Just FYI, here's the thread discussing the main article this blurb is based on: http://www.gomeangreen.com/forums/topic/118334-cheat-or-go-home/#comment-1042481

 

[greenminer]

@Ben Gooding I think we both agree that the loss was inexplicable and disappointing.  I just believe it's possible to be that and still be excited about the apparent direction of the program.

That's how I interpret the vibe on this site.  No one is settling for 5-6 wins; simply happy with how things are going.

[Ben Gooding]

6 minutes ago, greenminer said:

@Ben Gooding I think we both agree that the loss was inexplicable and disappointing.  I just believe it's possible to be that and still be excited about the apparent direction of the program.

That's how I interpret the vibe on this site.  No one is settling for 5-6 wins; simply happy with how things are going.

I'm not happy with how things are going. I am happy (and shocked) that we are being considered for a bowl, but the NCAA has no choice but to plop us down into one. But we are a 5-7 team that just came off a very embarrassing loss. Some on here for whatever reason will now defend Mason Fine to their grave, but is he going to carry this offense/team to a 9 or 10 win season as a sophomore of junior? I am very hesitant to say yes to that. And right now our recruiting is meh, at best. So, we just badly lost to the last place team in our own division and our we're currently 11/12th (of 14 teams) in recruiting. I'm trying to see what is driving the excitement behind the optimism, but I'm grasping at straws here. I guess I can say I am indeed excited about possibly attending a regional bowl game. 

[UTSA Fan]

7 hours ago, Ben Gooding said:

I'm not happy with how things are going. I am happy (and shocked) that we are being considered for a bowl, but the NCAA has no choice but to plop us down into one. But we are a 5-7 team that just came off a very embarrassing loss. Some on here for whatever reason will now defend Mason Fine to their grave, but is he going to carry this offense/team to a 9 or 10 win season as a sophomore of junior? I am very hesitant to say yes to that. And right now our recruiting is meh, at best. So, we just badly lost to the last place team in our own division and our we're currently 11/12th (of 14 teams) in recruiting. I'm trying to see what is driving the excitement behind the optimism, but I'm grasping at straws here. I guess I can say I am indeed excited about possibly attending a regional bowl game. 

There was a 4 game positive differential from last year with players he didn't recruit. It's a sign of improved coaching- optimism. If he can show he can recruit and gain an addition 4 game positive differential then you have excitement. I've said it before and I think it bears repeating, this season is not a complete look at SL because he didn't get to recruit and was implementing his schemes. I think 1 win from last year added to 4 coaching wins + 3 to 4 wins with the right recruits = success. 

[Ben Gooding]

35 minutes ago, UTSA Fan said:

There was a 4 game positive differential from last year with players he didn't recruit. It's a sign of improved coaching- optimism. If he can show he can recruit and gain an addition 4 game positive differential then you have excitement. I've said it before and I think it bears repeating, this season is not a complete look at SL because he didn't get to recruit and was implementing his schemes. I think 1 win from last year added to 4 coaching wins + 3 to 4 wins with the right recruits = success. 

We have 50 new players on this roster that this staff brought in through signing class, transfers, gray shirts, redshirts, and walkons. And as I stated above, our recruiting is very pedestrian right now for our upcoming class. Currently worse than Old Man McCarney's first couple of recruiting classes. Doesn't bode well. But we are Mean Green Nation and we'll continue to create excuse after excuse...It's what we do. 

[UTSA Fan]

29 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

We have 50 new players on this roster that this staff brought in through signing class, transfers, gray shirts, redshirts, and walkons. And as I stated above, our recruiting is very pedestrian right now for our upcoming class. Currently worse than Old Man McCarney's first couple of recruiting classes. Doesn't bode well. But we are Mean Green Nation and we'll continue to create excuse after excuse...It's what we do. 

We will agree to disagree. He wasn't in his position for more than a month and had to work with what was delt. Regarding the slow pace now, i.d.k., I'm willing to at least give him one recruiting class before I pass judgment. 

[Ben Gooding]

2 minutes ago, UTSA Fan said:

We will agree to disagree. He wasn't in his position for more than a month and had to work with what was delt. Regarding the slow pace now, i.d.k., I'm willing to at least give him one recruiting class before I pass judgment. 

We will have to agree on that then. Some of the in season performances paired with our current recruiting trend is what is jumping out to me. Most here are giddy about our 5-7 bowl appearance. Which is good. We need as many happy campers in this camp as possible. But from a futuristic standpoint I'm starting to get concerned. Nevermind some of our horrible performances and last placed offense in CUSA, relevant programs would be all over their boards asking wth is going on just on the basis of the current recruiting alone. I guess I'm bout done with this topic for a bit. Recruiting will play itself out and we'll see where we stand.