Quarterback

Got5onIt · November 14, 2016

6 hours ago, GMG_Dallas said:

Would most average CUSA offenses have had to play a true freshman quarterback since week 2? Would most average CUSA offenses have an offensive line allowing the most sacks in NCAA fbs football or at least top 5 and a receiving corps with mostly freshmen, some of them true freshmen, and sophomores? Remember the situation we are in overall. Morris, while I appreciate him coming here for a chance to start, threw 3 pics against SMU and a pick 6 against Bethune Cookman, an FCS program who is having a horrible year...

I don't care he's a "true freshman" at this point being 2/3 of the way into the season. Offensive line hasn struggled all year, yes. But can you replace the entire offensive line? Nope. We're talking strictly performance here. Fine should've benched based on his performance.

Edited November 14, 2016 by Got5onIt

GMG24 · November 14, 2016

4 minutes ago, Got5onIt said:

I don't care he's a "true freshman" at this point being 2/3 of the way into the season. Offensive line hasn struggled all year, yes. But can you replace the entire offensive line? Nope. We're talking strictly performance here. Fine should've benched based on his performance.

Why should he have been benched based on performance? So we should have benched Wilson during his bad games too? Give me a break. Relax, and enjoy watching this young team grow and compete.

Got5onIt · November 14, 2016

14 minutes ago, GMG24 said:

Why should he have been benched based on performance? So we should have benched Wilson during his bad games too? Give me a break. Relax, and enjoy watching this young team grow and compete.

You know exactly what I'm talking about. Wilson has a body of work, Fine has nothing close to it. Wow, have any of you guys watched any of the games this year? The QB position has been a major letdown this season.

You guys want to yap about sack totals and put all the blame on the OL but when you drop back 70 times a game you're going to get sacked.

Edited November 14, 2016 by Got5onIt

GMG24 · November 14, 2016

26 minutes ago, Got5onIt said:

You know exactly what I'm talking about. Wilson has a body of work, Fine has nothing close to it. Wow, have any of you guys watched any of the games this year? The QB position has been a major letdown this season.

You guys want to yap about sack totals and put all the blame on the OL but when you drop back 70 times a game you're going to get sacked.

We don't drop back 70 times a game. Every post game when he's been sacked 6-9 times Littrell hands him the blame for 1 MAYBE 2 as a True Freshman. Thats not counting the 7-8 other sacks he's avoided. We have run the ball

29 times vs SMU

51 vs BCU

28 vs Florida

42 vs Rice

42 vs Middle

54 vs Marshall

33 vs Army

34 vs UTSA

30 vs La Tech

Stats not posted from WKU

Travis · November 14, 2016

7 minutes ago, GMG24 said:

We don't drop back 70 times a game. Every post game when he's been sacked 6-9 times Littrell hands him the blame for 1 MAYBE 2 as a True Freshman. Thats not counting the 7-8 other sacks he's avoided. We have run the ball

29 times vs SMU

51 vs BCU

28 vs Florida

42 vs Rice

42 vs Middle

54 vs Marshall

33 vs Army

34 vs UTSA

30 vs La Tech

Stats not posted from WKU

We have run the ball because passing sure aint getting it done. Some of that is on the O-Line. and some of that is on the QB.

I tend to think the QB has played poorly regardless of O-line.

GMG24 · November 14, 2016

23 minutes ago, Travis said:

We have run the ball because passing sure aint getting it done. Some of that is on the O-Line. and some of that is on the QB.

I tend to think the QB has played poorly regardless of O-line.

I am not saying he's been a world beater by any stretch of the imagination, but his WR don't help him when they drop multiple passes. His deep ball sucks he needs to work on it, but his WR mainly Goree needs to help him also by his alignment. Goree gives him the smallest possible window to throw the ball in requiring a perfect ball. Not fair to ask of a Freshman or any QB for that matter. I am no apologist for any player not performing but to call for him to be benched is silly IMO. Kid has come in and done everything he can to help us be successful and has had a few bumps in the road. Would you rather have a few bumps in the road this season in a total rebuild, and have this kid have a full season of game experience for next year. Or would you like to see Alec go out there and struggle just the same and have no qb experience for next season.

Travis · November 14, 2016

11 minutes ago, GMG24 said:

I am not saying he's been a world beater by any stretch of the imagination, but his WR don't help him when they drop multiple passes. His deep ball sucks he needs to work on it, but his WR mainly Goree needs to help him also by his alignment. Goree gives him the smallest possible window to throw the ball in requiring a perfect ball. Not fair to ask of a Freshman or any QB for that matter. I am no apologist for any player not performing but to call for him to be benched is silly IMO. Kid has come in and done everything he can to help us be successful and has had a few bumps in the road. Would you rather have a few bumps in the road this season in a total rebuild, and have this kid have a full season of game experience for next year. Or would you like to see Alec go out there and struggle just the same and have no qb experience for next season.

You are right. No they don't. I think we could use an improvement in all areas outside of maybe running back. But, if one of those things can be improved...then we might see better out of all of them.

GMG24 · November 14, 2016

1 minute ago, Travis said:

You are right. No they don't. I think we could use an improvement in all areas outside of maybe running back. But, if one of those things can be improved...then we might see better out of all of them.

Agreed. Need more guys to make plays on offense. Seems like Thad is the only WR who can get true separation.

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF · November 14, 2016

Look, why are we arguing at this point. We needed a "game manager." Fine has done that pretty ably this year, and we should be thankful after having to watch the quarterbacking of 2014 and 2015.

I don't think Fine has 2017 locked up because it looks like we have a bona fide prep QB on board who will push him.

What we should all do is show up at Apogee on Saturday and cheer for Fine, Morris, or whomever the coaching staff throws out there because the team is on the edge of earning a bowl bid.

It's that simple.

Ben Gooding · November 14, 2016

Fine has not done a single thing this year to lock up 2017 starting QB position. He's inconsistent to at times bad. He's a true freshman and he's playing like one. Some programs strike gold in their true freshman, but the mine at North Texas is dry and will forever probably be dry. He's playing up to, maybe a little under, expectations and that is unfortunate. I think we have to put our faith in recruiting at this point while licking our wounds. This season is over, but I do expect the season finale in El Paso to be highly competitive...and that is not a good thing considering how bad they are. Silver lining...The season is almost over and we have a full offseason to regain our undying loyalty to this program.

*This offensive coaching staff/philosophy has not allowed be to fully buy in. The inconsistencies and obvious discrepancies in play calling is beyond alarming.

Cr1028 · November 14, 2016

17 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

Fine has not done a single thing this year to lock up 2017 starting QB position. He's inconsistent to at times bad. He's a true freshman and he's playing like one. Some programs strike gold in their true freshman, but the mine at North Texas is dry and will forever probably be dry. He's playing up to, maybe a little under, expectations and that is unfortunate. I think we have to put our faith in recruiting at this point while licking our wounds. This season is over, but I do expect the season finale in El Paso to be highly competitive...and that is not a good thing considering how bad they are. Silver lining...The season is almost over and we have a full offseason to regain our undying loyalty to this program.

*This offensive coaching staff/philosophy has not allowed be to fully buy in. The inconsistencies and obvious discrepancies in play calling is beyond alarming.

Why would you write off a quarterback's career when he plays like a true freshman, if he is a true freshman?

For reference reigning CUSA offensive and preseason offensive player of the year Nick Mullens completed less than 50% of his passes as a freshman, had a worse passer rating than Mason Fine, and had negative rushing yards. He was sacked 25 times and only started the final 6 games of the season. Let's tap the brakes a bit before we just throw this kid away like we did Dajon Williams for making freshman mistakes.

I completely agree that he has not locked up the '17 starting job and I'd feel the same way if we were sitting a 7-3 and he was garnering freshman all-america mentions. Nobody's job should ever be locked up. Best player plays, period. Whether you are a 5th year senior all conference player or a true freshman a few months out of high school, everyone needs to earn their job every year.

Edited November 14, 2016 by Cr1028

UNTLifer · November 14, 2016

3 hours ago, Got5onIt said:

You know exactly what I'm talking about. Wilson has a body of work, Fine has nothing close to it. Wow, have any of you guys watched any of the games this year? The QB position has been a major letdown this season.

You guys want to yap about sack totals and put all the blame on the OL but when you drop back 70 times a game you're going to get sacked.

Well, I saw him complete his first 15 passes and 21 of 26 against La Tech to keep us in the game for a half. I saw him go 80+ yards for a rushing TD to get us on the board against UTSA. I also realize he is a true freshman jumping from 3A Oklahoma ball to D1 while working behind a suspect offensive line and with receivers that continually have trouble separating from the DB's.

Ben Gooding · November 14, 2016

1 hour ago, Cr1028 said:

Why would you write off a quarterback's career when he plays like a true freshman, if he is a true freshman?

For reference reigning CUSA offensive and preseason offensive player of the year Nick Mullens completed less than 50% of his passes as a freshman, had a worse passer rating than Mason Fine, and had negative rushing yards. He was sacked 25 times and only started the final 6 games of the season. Let's tap the brakes a bit before we just throw this kid away like we did Dajon Williams for making freshman mistakes.

I completely agree that he has not locked up the '17 starting job and I'd feel the same way if we were sitting a 7-3 and he was garnering freshman all-america mentions. Nobody's job should ever be locked up. Best player plays, period. Whether you are a 5th year senior all conference player or a true freshman a few months out of high school, everyone needs to earn their job every year.

I'm not writing him off. I personal think that his ceiling is not that high. He will improve as he matures, but he I just do no think he can maturate into the gold standard that we need at that position. I think that play calling has been a hindrance to his on the field maturity as well. I think he is nothing like Dajon Williams. DW had a high ceiling that was never going to manifest due to his reported lack of effort. Mason doesn't have an effort issue, I think he just has a lower ceiling. Play calling has to tremendously improve and if that happens, plus his development, he may be our guy. Right now, I can't even say I'm cautiously optimistic. I guess I'm just in wait and see mode.

Cr1028 · November 14, 2016

3 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

I'm not writing him off. I personal think that his ceiling is not that high. He will improve as he matures, but he I just do no think he can maturate into the gold standard that we need at that position. I think that play calling has been a hindrance to his on the field maturity as well. I think he is nothing like Dajon Williams. DW had a high ceiling that was never going to manifest due to his reported lack of effort. Mason doesn't have an effort issue, I think he just has a lower ceiling. Play calling has to tremendously improve and if that happens, plus his development, he may be our guy. Right now, I can't even say I'm cautiously optimistic. I guess I'm just in wait and see mode.

Either way, for the final two games of the season, if Mason is able to go, there is no reason to start Alec. We need experience for future seasons and Morris is the only quarterback on the roster that is guaranteed not to be here next year.

Travis · November 14, 2016

7 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

Either way, for the final two games of the season, if Mason is able to go, there is no reason to start Alec. We need experience for future seasons and Morris is the only quarterback on the roster that is guaranteed not to be here next year.

Even if we are still playing for something this year?

Cr1028 · November 14, 2016

18 minutes ago, Travis said:

Even if we are still playing for something this year?

Yes, because this year isn't the ceiling, this is the floor. We are building a program, not sustaining one. If Mason can go, he plays. If we aren't playing for the CUSA title(which we aren't), it is all for next year.

BillySee58 · November 14, 2016

On November 13, 2016 at 10:57 AM, GMG_Dallas said:

We need to remember Mason Fine is a true freshman. The same thing happened with southern miss and Nick Mullens three (?) years ago when they went 0-12. On top of being a true freshman he's playing with a below average o-line and a very young receiving corps (Goree, Rutherford, T Wilson, Bussey, Khan, etc...) I think there's 4 junior or senior receivers who get playing time... The others are freshman or sophomores. Give them a year. If fine shows no improvement next year, then you have isadore who could potentially be healthy. Lets also not disregard any other grad transfers coming in.

Mullens was not there when they went 0-12, but your message still comes through. Fine just needs to use this year as a learning tool and make real, steady progress.

LongJim · November 14, 2016

I think Fine is a Riley Dodge-esque type player with a better arm and I think his play this year has been pretty great for a true freshman. He is going to be worlds better next year.

Eagleisland · November 14, 2016

The interesting thing was I watched the UT game on Saturday and Shane Buechele was having EXACTLY the same kind of problems as Mason. I guess that is expected with true freshmen playing behind mediocre offensive lines and spending all day being battered by the defense.

GMG24 · November 15, 2016

5 hours ago, Ben Gooding said:

I'm not writing him off. I personal think that his ceiling is not that high. He will improve as he matures, but he I just do no think he can maturate into the gold standard that we need at that position. I think that play calling has been a hindrance to his on the field maturity as well. I think he is nothing like Dajon Williams. DW had a high ceiling that was never going to manifest due to his reported lack of effort. Mason doesn't have an effort issue, I think he just has a lower ceiling. Play calling has to tremendously improve and if that happens, plus his development, he may be our guy. Right now, I can't even say I'm cautiously optimistic. I guess I'm just in wait and see mode.

Why do you think his ceiling isn't high? Only throw he's struggled with this year is the fade, and that's a WR timing, alignment, and route running issue. The second throw I've seen him struggle with is the digs or deep ins, that's because he's throwing off his back foot and its sailing on him. Easy mechanic to fix, particularly when you aren't scrambling for your life.

FirefightnRick · November 15, 2016

5 hours ago, LongJim said:

I think Fine is a Riley Dodge-esque type player with a better arm and I think his play this year has been pretty great for a true freshman. He is going to be worlds better next year.

Agree. If nothing else......I bet he never holds onto the ball that long while ignoring a wide open hot route ever again.

Rick

Edited November 15, 2016 by FirefightnRick

UNTLifer · November 15, 2016

6 hours ago, BillySee58 said:

Mullens was not there when they went 0-12, but your message still comes through. Fine just needs to use this year as a learning tool and make real, steady progress.

1-11, 0-12, who's counting?

GMG_Dallas · November 15, 2016

20 hours ago, BillySee58 said:

Mullens was not there when they went 0-12, but your message still comes through. Fine just needs to use this year as a learning tool and make real, steady progress.

Gotcha, my mistake. UNTLifer mentioned they went 1-11 his first year so they still were horrible.

If Isadore can quickly learn the playbook and is healthy come next year, who do you think starts between him and Fine barring any grad transfers? I really think the coaches will redshirt Pearson so I don't consider him an option to start but if he does, good for him. Isadore comes in with JUCO experience and has a huge size advantage while Fine will have a semester's head start assuming Isadore is here in the spring. I know Isadore is coming off an ACL injury but there's a long time to get healthy by next September.

Edited November 15, 2016 by GMG_Dallas

All About UNT · November 15, 2016

21 hours ago, LongJim said:

I think Fine is a Riley Dodge-esque type player with a better arm and I think his play this year has been pretty great for a true freshman. He is going to be worlds better next year.

Just like Riley huh?

Cr1028 · November 15, 2016

18 hours ago, FirefightnRick said:

Agree. If nothing else......I bet he never holds onto the ball that long while ignoring a wide open hot route ever again.

Rick

2 hours ago, All About UNT said:

Just like Riley huh?

If you remember, Riley started as a redshirt freshman in '09 after Vizza left. In '10, Riley was a wide receiver because his arm had ulnar nerve damage and he couldn't throw the ball like it needed to be thrown. After Tune and Thompson went down, he was our only option other than Chase Baine so I don't think your dig is fair in this situation.