No Improvement...

[Aigle Vert]

Does anyone have the details on how we lost all of those scholarships?  How do other schools manage to retain theirs?

[Cerebus]

3 minutes ago, Aigle Vert said:

Does anyone have the details on how we lost all of those scholarships?  How do other schools manage to retain theirs?

Per NCAA rules you can only give out 25 scholarships a year.  If you give scholarships to people who then either never show up, or transfer, or give up the sport, you can't turn around and give extra scholarships.  

Mac did pick up some quality recruits, his real failing is he had a very high wash out rate.  We should be at 85 scholarship players, we are almost 20 under that, which is right at the level that FCS programs give out (63).  

I think @BillySee58 did a break down of this some time ago, but it will take several years for us to get up to a full 85 since again we can only give out 25 a year.  

[Matt from A700]

19 hours ago, unt37 said:

I love littrell but i haven't been sold on Mason Fine or Graham Harrell. I think we could possibly see upgrades to these two next year.

I was high on the Fine wine at the beginning of his takeover but these past couple of weeks our passing game has severely regressed to the dump offs and screens to the running back that are painfully similar to the Greer and McNulty days.

[Aigle Vert]

48 minutes ago, Cerebus said:

Per NCAA rules you can only give out 25 scholarships a year.  If you give scholarships to people who then either never show up, or transfer, or give up the sport, you can't turn around and give extra scholarships.  

Mac did pick up some quality recruits, his real failing is he had a very high wash out rate.  We should be at 85 scholarship players, we are almost 20 under that, which is right at the level that FCS programs give out (63).  

I think @BillySee58 did a break down of this some time ago, but it will take several years for us to get up to a full 85 since again we can only give out 25 a year.  

Is this on par with other schools or much worse?

[Cerebus]

22 minutes ago, Aigle Vert said:

Is this on par with other schools or much worse?

Much worse. Most schools manage to stay right around the 85 scholarship limit.  

[Green Lantern]

31 minutes ago, Cerebus said:

Much worse. Most schools manage to stay right around the 85 scholarship limit.  

Yeah, it's terrible. Aren't we essentially at Baylor level of scholarship players?

[TIgreen01]

1 hour ago, Matt from A700 said:

I was high on the Fine wine at the beginning of his takeover but these past couple of weeks our passing game has severely regressed to the dump offs and screens to the running back that are painfully similar to the Greer and McNulty days.

Yep... And it didn't help to have Morris come in and immediately start firing the ball down field.  Even though they weren't completed often enough, you have to make those throws to force the defense to at least think about covering them.

 

[Got5onIt]

8 hours ago, Green Mean said:

I can see both sides of the argument here.  To me there's no shame losing to LA Tech and WK...they're good...really good in comparison to our conference and G5's.  The alternative to Fine is Alec Morris and we saw how he performed earlier this season and no question Fine is the best option right now IMO.  

I'm not really sold on Graham Harrell either and maybe it's b/c any interview I see of him or video of him talking/coaching to players something to me seems off but maybe it's just me.  

I have to disagree here. Most of Fine's performances are on par with Alec's one SMU start. Morris was never given much of a chance to produce in game. 

[NTAlum09]

14 hours ago, Got5onIt said:

I have to disagree here. Most of Fine's performances are on par with Alec's one SMU start. Morris was never given much of a chance to produce in game. 

True

Mason Fine has only thrown 6 touchdown passes with 5 interceptions and is ranked number 13th out of Conference USA Qb's....but it's ok he gets a pass for being young? Look I like the kid and I know he's a hard worker but what potential do you see out of him for the future? Please explain

 

 

Edited November 14, 2016 by NTAlum09

[GMG24]

This thread has turned into a beat down. 

[Cerebus]

1 hour ago, NTAlum09 said:

True

Mason Fine has only thrown 6 touchdown passes with 5 interceptions and is ranked number 13th out of Conference USA Qb's....but it's ok he gets a pass for being young? Look I like the kid and I know he's a hard worker but what potential do you see out of him for the future? Please explain

So only a slightly better rate (6/5 = 1.2 TD/INT Ratio) as a true freshman than DT had (13/12 = 1.1) as a RS senior?    

 

In Scott Hall's true freshman year he had 6 TD and 6 INT.  He was able to improve that to 27 TD and 9 INT his last two years.   Fine isn't where he want to be but lets try and remember he is a true freshman.  

 

[GOMG2013]

The teams we have played are improved.  This shouldn't be a surprise.  Our offense looks bad, our defense is getting picked apart.  Well, this isn't marshall and Army we have played the last two games where our defense had their way.

Good thing is now we have a USM team at home, that is not as good as the last 3 opponents.  Wouldn't surprise me if our offense all of a sudden starts playing better and our defense is back to not getting burnt and getting stops again.  The following game is against a UTEP team that isn't all that talented and one we probably should have beat last year.

 

[NTAlum09]

5 minutes ago, GOMG2013 said:

The teams we have played are improved.  This shouldn't be a surprise.  Our offense looks bad, our defense is getting picked apart.  Well, this isn't marshall and Army we have played the last two games where our defense had their way.

Good thing is now we have a USM team at home, that is not as good as the last 3 opponents.  Wouldn't surprise me if our offense all of a sudden starts playing better and our defense is back to not getting burnt and getting stops again.  The following game is against a UTEP team that isn't all that talented and one we probably should have beat last year.

 

Talented enough to beat UTSA

[Got5onIt]

2 hours ago, NTAlum09 said:

True

Mason Fine has only thrown 6 touchdown passes with 5 interceptions and is ranked number 13th out of Conference USA Qb's....but it's ok he gets a pass for being young? Look I like the kid and I know he's a hard worker but what potential do you see out of him for the future? Please explain

 

 

He's got potential no doubt and has shown toughness. He'll get better with experience. Physically he's obviously undersized and has an average arm. None of that is really a deal breaker, IMO, just facts of his ability. People want to point at the sack total but when you drop back 70 times a game you're going to get sacked. 

I saw Morris on more than one occasion stay in the pocket and get blasted but deliver a decent throw. Obviously, him and Fine are close talent wise but why have we not seen Morris hit the field? That's my question...

Edited November 14, 2016 by Got5onIt

[Aldo]

4 wins is better than 1.

But I'm not good at math, so...

[Ben Gooding]

6 hours ago, GMG24 said:

This thread has turned into a beat down. 

Not really. This thread is called dialogue over an issue that needs addressing. Just because you met a few of the coaches, doesn't mean this staff is full of the right coaches. Littrell may be THE guy, but he has to have a good ensemble behind him and I think that is where some of our issues lay, offensively. We are last in offensive production, across the board. I don't care if we have an 8th grader at QB, this has been pretty inept. This is not, and has not been, teeing it high and watching it fly. If anything, it has been quite the opposite. Much like many of the players, many of the coaches need to develop and grow into their role this offseason. 

[GMG24]

25 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

Not really. This thread is called dialogue over an issue that needs addressing. Just because you met a few of the coaches, doesn't mean this staff is full of the right coaches. Littrell may be THE guy, but he has to have a good ensemble behind him and I think that is where some of our issues lay, offensively. We are last in offensive production, across the board. I don't care if we have an 8th grader at QB, this has been pretty inept. This is not, and has not been, teeing it high and watching it fly. If anything, it has been quite the opposite. Much like many of the players, many of the coaches need to develop and grow into their role this offseason. 

We don't have the dudes to compete this year.  It is what it is.  The fact we were as competitive as we were as long as we were is an absolute miracle. 

[VideoEagle]

Did anyone realistically pick us to beat La Tech or Western? UTSA was one I thought we'd at least be better, but the other two just weren't going to happen this year.

[FirefightnRick]

16 minutes ago, VideoEagle said:

Did anyone realistically pick us to beat La Tech or Western?

Just by the usuals.

I think the win over Army...on the road no less, got folks confidence a little inflated.

 

Rick

[Boca_Nasty_96]

On 11/12/2016 at 4:05 PM, Cerebus said:

You don't have to be especially talented to beat Army and their triple offense.  You have to just be very disciplined.  The team had an extra week and obviously worked very hard to learn their system and beat them.  Since then we have run into a utsa team that won the turnover battle, and then two teams that are obviously much more talented.

I'm not sure we get to that fifth win.  USM and UTEP will both be double digit faves.  

maybe USM but UTEP ?

[untjim1995]

On ‎11‎/‎13‎/‎2016 at 2:33 PM, Matt from A700 said:

I was high on the Fine wine at the beginning of his takeover but these past couple of weeks our passing game has severely regressed to the dump offs and screens to the running back that are painfully similar to the Greer and McNulty days.

The thing that separates the Fine QB performance from Greer or McNulty is that we know Littrell will open up the offense and Fine better be ready in the years ahead to make the throws down field. Under Metamucil McCarney, throws downfield beyond 3 yards were never going to be a big player for any QB.

I'm willing to bet you that Fine will get a lot better as the years progress--if only because the coaching staff will get better and the talent around him will be better equipped for the offense Littrell wants to implement.

Right now, our OL sucks big time and our receivers look like guys who were recruited to play in a 3 yards-and-a-cloud-of-dust offense. I believe, until shown otherwise, that Littrell and Company will improve all of this as we move forward.

[BTG_Fan1]

21 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

The thing that separates the Fine QB performance from Greer or McNulty is that we know Littrell will open up the offense and Fine better be ready in the years ahead to make the throws down field. Under Metamucil McCarney, throws downfield beyond 3 yards were never going to be a big player for any QB.

I'm willing to bet you that Fine will get a lot better as the years progress--if only because the coaching staff will get better and the talent around him will be better equipped for the offense Littrell wants to implement.

Right now, our OL sucks big time and our receivers look like guys who were recruited to play in a 3 yards-and-a-cloud-of-dust offense. I believe, until shown otherwise, that Littrell and Company will improve all of this as we move forward.

That is how it should be with every QB... the problem is everyone is wanting to play him no matter what and that is understandable to get him ready for in the future, but right now we have a chance to go to a bowl game.. literally we had win 2 out of 5 games to get to  wins.. or 1 out of 5 to get to 5 wins.. 2 out of 5 shouldn't be not-do able let alone 1 for 5.. But this team has regressed in terms of stupid penalties, costly turnovers(Yes, Fine has added to this), lack of ball possession at times which has lead to the defense being exhausted at times, and the lack of the defense getting turn overs itself. The bowl game should be more important for us right now than next years bowl game.. we are 1 or 2 games away from this years, and 5 or 6 away from next years and who knows who all will be on that team. We should be focusing on going to a bowl game this year for Buyers and Scott and company... No more lets pack up shop and pray for 2017, pack it in and play for 2016. 

I would understand playing fine if we didn't had a chance of getting to a bowl game, and I think everyone here wants Fine to be the kid that turns this program around because he is a very likable and honestly great kid for the program and UNT. But we all can admit he has been in a really bad rout, he got lucky vs. Army when he should have had multiple INTs, and then it has shown up in the past 3 weeks. Fine could just be worn out from the beating he has taken with this OLine, but he can also be faulted for holding the ball at times to much and also not sliding at times... Another mystery that we should be asking, is does Fine have the ability or grasp of the offense enough for him to change the play at the line of scrimmage because he has missed some very big blitzs at times. But again we have a chance to go to a bowl game, so if we really are playing for the future it should be playing to get into a bowl game.. that is added practice time and another reason for recruits to come to UNT. 

[aztecskin]

I agree the offensive staff is still learning and has a burden to prove their abilities. I also think that is limited by the roster, in particular the offensive line. It lacks the depth of a normal roster and differs stylistically from the offensive scheme. 

Outside of an outstanding few, a lot of drastic scheme changes have growing pains associated with them. Even Nicky Saban went 7-6 in his first year at Alabama. Mike Leach went 3-9 in his first year at Wazzu -- a much more congruent comparison -- Skip Holtz at La Tech went 4-8, Sonny Dykes went 1-11. 

It was always going to be rough and it has been. I've tried to maintain that perspective. ( I predicted 7 wins largely because of the schedule we played. Even the best of CUSA are not _that_ great, and Southern Miss imploding is an example of that. So is MTSU falling apart after their starting QB is injured. )

The stated recruiting strategy -- looking for fit and not necessarily stars -- is a sound one, but we will have to see if it is simply rhetoric. Recruiting guys with lots of offers and lots of stars is good. I thought it was interesting that Seth Littrell mentioned the that having guys with zero offers is not necessarily a bad thing in light of what @BillySee58 has touted. 

 

TL;DR: Think they have outperformed the depth chart. Coaches have (lots) of room to improve. I am hopeful about the upcoming recruiting class despite the outside rankings. This is all subject to change, obviously.

[Harry]

6 minutes ago, aztecskin said:

The stated recruiting strategy -- looking for fit and not necessarily stars -- is a sound one, but we will have to see if it is simply rhetoric. Recruiting guys with lots of offers and lots of stars is good. I thought it was interesting that Seth Littrell mentioned the that having guys with zero offers is not necessarily a bad thing in light of what @BillySee58 has touted. 

 

TL;DR: Think they have outperformed the depth chart. Coaches have (lots) of room to improve. I am hopeful about the upcoming recruiting class despite the outside rankings. This is all subject to change, obviously.

The spotlight on recruiting is much brighter with what is going on down in SA.  Our recruiting typically formulates later in the year but you have to tip your hat to them for what Wilson has put together thus far.

That said, if we can keep coach Ek in the fold I would feel a whole lot better about our prospects.

[BTG_Fan1]

2 minutes ago, Harry said:

The spotlight on recruiting is much brighter with what is going on down in SA.  Our recruiting typically formulates later in the year but you have to tip your hat to them for what Wilson has put together thus far.

That said, if we can keep coach Ek in the fold I would feel a whole lot better about our prospects.

I do agree about that, but how much higher is UTSA if you take out their 4* recruit? The kid has switched multiple times and having legal trouble I believe... But UTSA has a few more boom or bust kids in terms of whether or not they can make it to signing day and play next year