Terrible Refs

[Ben Gooding]

QB's can't have it both ways. They can't be allowed to practically instigate late hits and targeting calls. They push their limits when tip toeing on a sideline too. Then they try to plop a foot out of bounds as fast as humanly possible when they see danger just to turn around and bitch to a ref about a late hit. Defenders are having to play them honest on the sidelines now because QB's aren't just running out of bounds any more. Same applies to sliding. It has to be called in context. If a QB tries to get cute and push his boundary on sliding then he should rightfully absorb whatever lick he takes. 

And to note...Mcclains inital hit was shoulder to shoulder. Physics then made it shoulder to helmet. Therefore, per rule, he wasn't aiming at helmet and it should not have been called targeting. It was a call that was very gray. RB's take these kind of hits all game and there is NEVER a call. Higgins, in that play, for all intent and purposes made himself a RB. 

[GMG24]

1 hour ago, MEANGREENCOACH2 said:

@GMG24

Yeah..That'll get your kids to really calm down when the coach loses it too.  Littrell did the right thing, talked to the officials voiced his displeasure but didn't show them up as that would only make it worse.  I didn't see anything wrong with how he handled it.  I actually watched him specifically when Brooks started getting chippy and he pulled him aside 2-3 times to talk and try to calm him down.  

[Ben Gooding]

2 minutes ago, GMG24 said:

Yeah..That'll get your kids to really calm down when the coach loses it too.  Littrell did the right thing, talked to the officials voiced his displeasure but didn't show them up as that would only make it worse.  I didn't see anything wrong with how he handled it.  I actually watched him specifically when Brooks started getting chippy and he pulled him aside 2-3 times to talk and try to calm him down.  

Voicing displeasure and losing cool are not to be confused with each other. Littrell did neither. 

[Matt from A700]

All we have left to do is troll the conference on Twitter.

[GOMG2013]

17 minutes ago, GMG24 said:

Yeah..That'll get your kids to really calm down when the coach loses it too.  Littrell did the right thing, talked to the officials voiced his displeasure but didn't show them up as that would only make it worse.  I didn't see anything wrong with how he handled it.  I actually watched him specifically when Brooks started getting chippy and he pulled him aside 2-3 times to talk and try to calm him down.  

Coaches use the strategy of distraction all the time, in multiple sports to protect their player so the player can go back on the field and perform.  It happens quite frequently too.  If the players are complaining and worried about the refs, the coaches will tell the players to worry about the game, and I will chew the refs out.  It's very rare the player continues to jaw and complain once he sees his coach goes off.  Coaches even use fake tantrums to get their team fired up.

[Aldo]

13 minutes ago, Matt from A700 said:

All we have left to do is troll the conference on Twitter.

[MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF]

Usually, I'll restrain my son from saying - and, yelling - words like "suck."  But, Saturday night, I made an exception in the first half.  Both of the terrible calls were made on the half of the field where we sit in the end zone.  Both were terrible calls.  And, both times, my son yelled loudly about how much the referees suck...along with 20,000 others in attendance.

The McClain call was bad enough, while the taunting penalty was simply egregious. 

I sat and wondered, what can a defensive back do to celebrate a good play if not throw his hands in the air in triumph. 

I'm all from protecting players and good sportsmanship.  But, Saturday night's application of the rules was simply horrible. 

Like most others, I'm not saying that having McClain ejected would have guaranteed we come back and win the game.  However, I think it would have been closer.  La. Tech has a very good team, and they are well coached; so, they really didn't need any extra help from the officials.  But, they got it. 

I guess the refs thought it was Louisiana Tech's homecoming game, not ours?

[outoftown]

21 hours ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

Here is a photo of the hit clearly to the head of the QB, and prefect view as to why it was targeting. 

http://www.dentonrc.com/sports/sports-headlines/20161105-losing-mcclain-hinders-mean-green.ece

Sorry, but this is a bad job by BV. The picture is not clear at all and if you are not sugestive with the title people will not believe that it is. i don't know what you are seeing, but I see shoulder hitting head at the most and on the pic it looks like the hit the should first and then slid up to the head, because the QB is lowering his trajectory. Definitely no intent and no launching with the head at all. On top of it, With the QB having just gone lower, and not showing trajectory the pic is very incomplete -and frankly misleading- info. This is simply not targeting. When you look at the video instead of a single pic, that should have been obvious to the video ref. I watched some other games this weekend, where QBs were dished worse hits when sliding, and no targeting was called and nobody even clamored for one.

Edited November 7, 2016 by outoftown

[BTG_Fan1]

Yes the QB was out of the pocket, yes he took a late slide.. but when you slide feet first your given yourself up and viewed as a defenseless player. This is why he got the flag, along with contact to the head or neck with his shoulder pad. And again, it is a QB so they are almost always going to get the call.. they wear helmets and people do use them as weapons as well(not saying McClain is someone or would do this). But, We all should be thankful that it happened during the 1st half so we have him back for the WKU game.  We can debate if it was the right call or the wrong call, but it was up to the replay official to up hold and eject him or let him stay in. 

[MeanGreenTexan]

38 minutes ago, GMG24 said:

Yeah..That'll get your kids to really calm down when the coach loses it too.  Littrell did the right thing, talked to the officials voiced his displeasure but didn't show them up as that would only make it worse.  I didn't see anything wrong with how he handled it.  I actually watched him specifically when Brooks started getting chippy and he pulled him aside 2-3 times to talk and try to calm him down.  

I didn't say I wanted Littrell to "lose it" or "show them up".  There are ways to get fired up and yell at an official for a bad call without losing your cool.   
I didn't see him talking to any of the officials.  If you saw that, then I'm glad he did.   But when the calls happened, there was no emotion there.  Just standing there while his players were being taken to the cleaners.

I also saw him pull Brooks to the side and chat with him twice.  The first time after his nice PBU that was horribly called PI, then after his a**-whooping on the very next play.  I was hopeful that it would improve the situation... it did not.  Brooks missed his tackle on Henderson's end-around 2-3 plays later.   Then kept getting burned by Henderson all night.

[Matt from A700]

25 minutes ago, Aldo said:

[MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF]

Okay...watch the video.  McClain began his tackle before the QB slid, or - at worst - at the same time.  It wasn't even close to targeting. 

If the QB has already started to slide and a guy goes after his head, that I understand and support that rule. But, that was not what happened Saturday night. 

I fully support the legislating out the Jack Tatum/Roy Williams mentality of playing the opponents head and shoulders instead of the ball.  But, McClain does not have a history of that type of play.  He's a solid safety who plays clean.  He did not target the QB Saturday night.

I'd like to think that the officials do some homework before the games, talk to one another, and know what to expect out of certain players.  I can't even dream up a scenario so outlandish that the officiating crew thought they'd have to be on the look out for dirty play out of McClain.   

And, again, the taunting flag was even worse.  Just an awful call all the way around.  If that's the way it's going to be, then Richard Sherman is correct in his assessment that any type of fun is being taken out of football.

[BTG_Fan1]

26 minutes ago, outoftown said:

Sorry, but this is a bad job by BV. The picture is not clear at all and if you are not sugestive with the title people will not believe that it is. i don't know what you are seeing, but I see shoulder hitting head at the most and on the pic it looks like the hit the should first and then slid up to the head, because the QB is lowering his trajectory. Definitely no intent and no launching with the head at all. On top of it, With the QB having just gone lower, and not showing trajectory the pic is very incomplete -and frankly misleading- info. This is simply not targeting. When you look at the video instead of a single pic, that should have been obvious to the video ref. I watched some other games this weekend, where QBs were dished worse hits when sliding, and no targeting was called and nobody even clamored for one.

The targeting call is anything to the head with a players forearm, helmet, shoulder pad, etc.. it's also up the replay official if the player is tossed.. they felt he deserved it and that he had more then enough time to not go for the head.

I'm not defending the refs, I'm saying that when you give them a chance to call it and do, it's not their fault. I also agree it was a minor hit on the QB, compared to others but it's still something that could be flagged.

Just like the call on Chad for standing over the WR.. all he had to do was get up and take a step away and then wave his arms, then no penalty. 

[UNTLifer]

By the way, I did receive an email response this morning from Merton Hanks, who is responsible for the football officiating. Below is a copy.

My name is Merton Hanks and I oversee Conference USA football officials. I am in receipt of your comments to Commissioner MacLeod and am appreciative of your passion and opinion regarding the North Texas vs. Louisiana Tech football contest on November 5^th. The conference office reviews each game and I will be reviewing this contest with the C-USA coordinator of officials. I thank you for your support of Conference USA and the University of North Texas football.

[GOMG2013]

19 minutes ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

Just like the call on Chad for standing over the WR.. all he had to do was get up and take a step away and then wave his arms, then no penalty. 

He got up waving his hands and ran off all in one motion.  There was no pose or standing over the WR looking down or talking ish.  It was a ref looking for something to call and gave la tech 3 free points.

And they showed it on espn a few times.  The announcers said it was a bad call.  

Edited November 7, 2016 by GOMG2013

[MeanGreenTexan]

4 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

By the way, I did receive an email response this morning from Merton Hanks, who is responsible for the football officiating. Below is a copy.

 

 

 

I would hope, given his prior history as a defensive back, that he would be able to weigh in heavily on the issue.

[MEANGREENCOACH2]

42 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

 I was hopeful that it would improve the situation... it did not.  Brooks missed his tackle on Henderson's end-around 2-3 plays later.   Then kept getting burned by Henderson all night.

 

@GMG24 I am not the only one who thought this

[Ben Gooding]

I can tell you this...The first possession of the game on 3rd down that went for a TD was horribly bad defense on everyone involved. CB got burned off the line for a good step and a half (I'm assuming Brooks), but then the safety over the top was a step and a half where I would normally say late, but here nonexistent as it was practically a jog in TD. Not sure if that safety was McClain or Gray, but the help was horrible. And just like that, we were losing 7-0 with less than 2 minutes into the game. 

Also, for a scheme that is supposed to live and die by the blitz/pressure/chaos...we either didn't blitz at all or the blitz never got home. Higgins had, at times, 5-6-7-8 seconds to kind of maneuver around and find an open guy. Most of them were on 3rd down. Send a delayed LB in there to permanently bring his eyes down and flush him. He did at times get flushed, but it would be already 3 or 4 seconds into his progression. I felt like I was watching a team get coached by a staff that thought they were outmanned before the first snap. It's easy to witness it because a team is usually very conservative all across the board, offensively and defensively.  Other than always generally losing, the one thing that I am growing old of is players, teams, defenses, etc. having career days on UNT. And it's always the stud player for the other team to go crazy on us as if it's like they viewed film with their eyes closed all week. Is what it is. What La Tech did to us, will be something very similar to what WKU will try to do. They have a potent run game, but they sling the ball around to loosen up the D then run it all over defenses. Going into game preparation, take one away needs to be the motto. It always bodes well for a defense when offenses can't run on you. So, stop the run and make White throw for 500 yards to win. He'll probably be able to do it, but at least we would make them one dimensional. 

[BTG_Fan1]

38 minutes ago, GOMG2013 said:

He got up waving his hands and ran off all in one motion.  There was no pose or standing over the WR looking down or talking ish.  It was a ref looking for something to call and gave la tech 3 free points.

And they showed it on espn a few times.  The announcers said it was a bad call.  

Not sure if we discussing the same play.

The play i'm talking about was on the drive that should have started with LA Tech at their own 15, but we had the hit out of bounds, and on the same drive it was the McClain targeting... but Davis stood over the WR and waved incomplete and got a 15 yds for it.. 

48 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

By the way, I did receive an email response this morning from Merton Hanks, who is responsible for the football officiating. Below is a copy.

 

 

 

I hope you get a reply from them after they watch it... or maybe even email asking about certain plays 

[outoftown]

1 hour ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

The targeting call is anything to the head with a players forearm, helmet, shoulder pad, etc.. it's also up the replay official if the player is tossed.. they felt he deserved it and that he had more then enough time to not go for the head.

I'm not defending the refs, I'm saying that when you give them a chance to call it and do, it's not their fault. I also agree it was a minor hit on the QB, compared to others but it's still something that could be flagged.

Just like the call on Chad for standing over the WR. all he had to do was get up and take a step away and then wave his arms, then no penalty. 

See, if they had called these kind of things both ways from the start, I'd be like yes, they are ridiculously tough in how they interpret the rules, that is bad (welcome to touch football) but no disaster, just gotta adjust and not give them a shot at throwing the flag. We could be like this is a teachable moment for the kids, the rules are the rules even if they are interpreted harshly. But that is not what happened. They were ridiculously tough only toward one team and let the other teams holding etc slide. I fail to see in what way accepting that could be a positive lesson for the kids. Also when it comes to ridiculous targeting calls, the stakes are raised, cause the player does not get a chance to adjust to the refs, he is gone. I repeat that I can kind of forgive the on-field refs for calling it, the one that has me peeved is the video ref, who is there to correct that mistake and has all the necessary resources to overturn and have it be a late hit at the most.

And for the bolded part: they felt wrong, he only grased the head with his shoulder and he did not have enough time.

Edited November 7, 2016 by outoftown

[oldguystudent]

On 11/6/2016 at 0:05 AM, UNTLifer said:

http://conferenceusa.com/mobile/staff.aspx?staff=2

Took me forever to find a box score, but email sent with stats to back up assertions. 

[KRAM1]

Unfortunately, by losing, these emails and texts to the CUSA office will seem like sour grapes and not get the attention they should...my opinion of course.  The refs were terrible...especially "you know who".  Hopefully, Littrell and Company and Wren Baker will discuss it with the league office.  But, these complaints regarding officiating would hold so much more weight had we won the game.  Surely, we all know that as bad as they were, the refs were not the reason we lost that game.

[oldguystudent]

1 minute ago, KRAM1 said:

Unfortunately, by losing, these emails and texts to the CUSA office will seem like sour grapes and not get the attention they should...my opinion of course.  The refs were terrible...especially "you know who".  Hopefully, Littrell and Company and Wren Baker will discuss it with the league office.  But, these complaints regarding officiating would hold so much more weight had we won the game.  Surely, we all know that as bad as they were, the refs were not the reason we lost that game.

I actually went out of my way to be polite, acknowledge that LaTech was the better team, and uses boxscore stats to back up my assertions.  I didn't say that the refs were bad.  I said that they weren't uniform in enforcement and I thought some of the officiating wasn't up to conference standards.  That I hoped they would review the game and make corrections, IF NECESSARY.

 

[oldguystudent]

Their email servers are picking up keywords and sending form letter responses:

Quote

 

My name is Merton Hanks and I oversee Conference USA football officials. I am in receipt of your comments to Commissioner MacLeod and am appreciative of your passion and opinion regarding the North Texas vs. Louisiana Tech football contest on November 5^th. The conference office reviews each game and I will be reviewing this contest with the C-USA coordinator of officials. I thank you for your support of Conference USA and the University of North Texas football.

 

Regards,

 

Merton

 

 

Edited November 7, 2016 by oldguystudent

[BTG_Fan1]

1 hour ago, outoftown said:

See, if they had called these kind of things both ways from the start, I'd be like yes, they are ridiculously tough in how they interpret the rules, that is bad (welcome to touch football) but no disaster, just gotta adjust and not give them a shot at throwing the flag. We could be like this is a teachable moment for the kids, the rules are the rules even if they are interpreted harshly. But that is not what happened. They were ridiculously tough only toward one team and let the other teams holding etc slide. I fail to see in what way accepting that could be a positive lesson for the kids. Also when it comes to ridiculous targeting calls, the stakes are raised, cause the player does not get a chance to adjust to the refs, he is gone. I repeat that I can kind of forgive the on-field refs for calling it, the one that has me peeved is the video ref, who is there to correct that mistake and has all the necessary resources to overturn and have it be a late hit at the most.

And for the bolded part: they felt wrong, he only grased the head with his shoulder and he did not have enough time.

I agree with everything and that's what I have been trying to say.. but even grazing him, could be viewed as targeting.. and it does suck about the video ref.. but I don't think anyone views UNT as a dirty team at all.