Terrible Refs

[MeanMag]

17 hours ago, MGNation92 said:

My personal favorite was Fine throwing a fade and when the ball was 20 yards downfield, got nailed. No flag to be seen 

If that is the play I am thinking of, the defender did not turn around, ran over the WR and should have been a PI as well. So 2 blown calls on one play.

I sat with a former LaTech DL and even he said we (UNT) were getting jobbed by the refs. But he also said they (LaTech) would need all the help they could get, because on the season they have been awful in the 3rd QTR of games.

[BTG_Fan1]

Any hit to the head or player that is defenseless can be called "Targeting".. Also, the intent can be from McClain running in and diving at the QB that is already sliding... At first it was called "Unnecessary Roughness"(I Believe) then they reviewed it because of the blow to the head of the QB when he was sliding and had given himself up making him defenseless..Also, we all know QBs get the benefit of the call.

IF C-USA was stacking the game against UNT that isn't very smart with LA Tech being one of the top programs which should be bowl-bound, they should have stacked it towards us to help us get to 6 wins thus leading to more C-USA teams being able to go to a bowl without the need for APR. Also, UTSA blew out MSTU another one of the C-USA Powers...

[FirefightnRick]

Another bad call I remember...

We had a reciever get pulled down then got up and kept running but the play was whistled down.  Replay showed he rolled over on top of the defender and never touched the ground.

 

Rick

[GrandGreen]

2 hours ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

Any hit to the head or player that is defenseless can be called "Targeting".. Also, the intent can be from McClain running in and diving at the QB that is already sliding... At first it was called "Unnecessary Roughness"(I Believe) then they reviewed it because of the blow to the head of the QB when he was sliding and had given himself up making him defenseless..Also, we all know QBs get the benefit of the call.

IF C-USA was stacking the game against UNT that isn't very smart with LA Tech being one of the top programs which should be bowl-bound, they should have stacked it towards us to help us get to 6 wins thus leading to more C-USA teams being able to go to a bowl without the need for APR. Also, UTSA blew out MSTU another one of the C-USA Powers...

It means a lot more to the conference to have high rated teams than it does how many mediocre teams squeak out bowl bids. 

[BTG_Fan1]

Don't you think more bowl teams would lead to more $ for a conference in need of cash.. 

[KRAM1]

21 hours ago, Caw Caw said:

Actually, I get full service with AT&T in Apogee. Always burn my battery checking other scores around college football.

Same here.  I have AT&T as well and my cell service in Apogee has always been fine.

[SHOSS]

20 hours ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

What was the reason for the 15-yd pentaly on Chad Davis on the drive that McClain got tossed? Was it because he was standing over the WR waving his arms incomplete? 

 

Also, it was stupid for McClain to go for the QB there.. the QB had given himself up and was sliding, but the rule of targeting is any contact with the head of the other teams player with the players helmet as well. McClain did hit the QB in the head and that is why, he got tossed. Again stupid play by McClain that never should have happened and McClain had enough time to not dive and hit the QB. 

My point was that i believe mcclain had committed to a tackle at the same time that the slide began.  

[jperg2]

2 hours ago, FirefightnRick said:

Another bad call I remember...

We had a reciever get pulled down then got up and kept running but the play was whistled down.  Replay showed he rolled over on top of the defender and never touched the ground.

 

Rick

I thought I was the only one who noticed this. Glad I was not the only one who caught this.

[Rudy]

8 hours ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

The way the QB slid, he is down as soon starts his slide.. if he had dove head first then he is fair game.. but when you slide feet first, you are down as soon as you start. Also, I was in the Wing as well, it was clear he made contact with the QBs helmet. They don't consider it because it's a rule. If you consider this or that then it leaves a lot of room for error. 

When I saw this, it's a call that is called at times but something that can be easily avoided... but agree about the "act like you have been there." The guy Henderson was destroying them and ya we had a great play chad, but he nearly got flagged again for same thing in the 4th..  but I guess being nearly doubled up let the refs glance over it. 

I was sitting ALOT closer than you.  There was no contact to the head.

5 hours ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

Any hit to the head or player that is defenseless can be called "Targeting".. Also, the intent can be from McClain running in and diving at the QB that is already sliding... At first it was called "Unnecessary Roughness"(I Believe) then they reviewed it because of the blow to the head of the QB when he was sliding and had given himself up making him defenseless..Also, we all know QBs get the benefit of the call.

IF C-USA was stacking the game against UNT that isn't very smart with LA Tech being one of the top programs which should be bowl-bound, they should have stacked it towards us to help us get to 6 wins thus leading to more C-USA teams being able to go to a bowl without the need for APR. Also, UTSA blew out MSTU another one of the C-USA Powers...

There was no contact to the head.  It was shoulder to shoulder.  At no point was it called unnecessary roughness.  It was called targeting from the start, which is why it was reviewed.

[UNTLifer]

What stands ojt to me is that there are commenrs after all of our games regarding the poor officiating.  I am normally not kne to complain since I used to umpire baseball games, but these are so obvious that it is sad.

[BTG_Fan1]

12 minutes ago, Rudy said:

I was sitting ALOT closer than you.  There was no contact to the head.

There was no contact to the head.  It was shoulder to shoulder.  At no point was it called unnecessary roughness.  It was called targeting from the start, which is why it was reviewed.

LOL now your bragging about where you sat, but yet I never said where I was sitting at the game... So congrats on that and your great view from 50 yards away at least HAHA

But here is the photo again for you to clearly see where McClain is making contact with the head of the QB. 

http://www.dentonrc.com/sports/sports-headlines/20161105-losing-mcclain-hinders-mean-green.ece

But also so you can see the rule and how it is stated here is just a quick bullet point from the rule book, but I will include the link as well 

Targeting and Initiating Contact to Head or Neck Area of a Defenseless Player  (Rule 9-1-4)

No player shall target and initiate contact to the head or neck area of a defenseless opponent with the helmet, forearm, fist, elbow or shoulder. When in question, it is a foul.  (Rule 2-27-14)

According to this, what McClain once again did make contact with the Head and Neck region of the QB, who was sliding and thus defenseless. 

http://www.afca.com/article/article.php?id=2342

McClain clearly makes contact in the photo, so the only argument that could still be valid is if the QB slide to late, which could be true but once again.. Anything dealing with the QB, is more likely to be flagged and that its a judgement call of the officials. But I'm sure if you were to talk to SL about that flags and the officials he would say that UNT can't and should not rely on them to win a game. UNT plan out got beat and yes losing McClain hurt us, but he clearly makes contact which you see in the photo but thank god it was during the 1st half so he will not miss the WKU game. 

1 hour ago, SHOSS said:

My point was that i believe mcclain had committed to a tackle at the same time that the slide began.  

and once again you can commit the tackle but any blow to the head and neck region of a player with your own helmet /forearm or shoulder pad.

[Rudy]

Re-read it again, scooter.  I wasn't bragging.  Where I sat was relevant to the discussion.  And then re-read your earlier post, where you said, "I was in the Wing as well."

[BTG_Fan1]

Once again, never said where in the Wing but good we can do some name calling now! But all good focus on that instead the actual call and the reason behind the ejection 

[Rudy]

I'm not aware that anywhere in the wing that is better than sitting on the side, but whatever.

[SHOSS]

8 hours ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

LOL now your bragging about where you sat, but yet I never said where I was sitting at the game... So congrats on that and your great view from 50 yards away at least HAHA

But here is the photo again for you to clearly see where McClain is making contact with the head of the QB. 

http://www.dentonrc.com/sports/sports-headlines/20161105-losing-mcclain-hinders-mean-green.ece

But also so you can see the rule and how it is stated here is just a quick bullet point from the rule book, but I will include the link as well 

Targeting and Initiating Contact to Head or Neck Area of a Defenseless Player  (Rule 9-1-4)

No player shall target and initiate contact to the head or neck area of a defenseless opponent with the helmet, forearm, fist, elbow or shoulder. When in question, it is a foul.  (Rule 2-27-14)

According to this, what McClain once again did make contact with the Head and Neck region of the QB, who was sliding and thus defenseless. 

http://www.afca.com/article/article.php?id=2342

McClain clearly makes contact in the photo, so the only argument that could still be valid is if the QB slide to late, which could be true but once again.. Anything dealing with the QB, is more likely to be flagged and that its a judgement call of the officials. But I'm sure if you were to talk to SL about that flags and the officials he would say that UNT can't and should not rely on them to win a game. UNT plan out got beat and yes losing McClain hurt us, but he clearly makes contact which you see in the photo but thank god it was during the 1st half so he will not miss the WKU game. 

and once again you can commit the tackle but any blow to the head and neck region of a player with your own helmet /forearm or shoulder pad.

The qb is a runner when out of the pocket. The cut and dryness goes out the window unless the runner is deemed helpless or defensless.  And yes, i believe the slide was pretty late.  That changes the tackling target from hips to head.  When a tackler is already committed to the tackle at full speed, it is a judgment call.  

[UNT SigEp]

It was hard to tell as the ESPN3 Feed was like watching a game from a flip phone.  The reason we lost is not b/c of the refs though, they were a better team.  There is realistically holding on every call.

[MeanGreenTexan]

I agree with you all about the horrible officiating, but what was even more head-scratching was watching Coach Littrell just stand by and take it.  No fire from him at all.

One of the biggest blown calls was the incredibly late flag that lady back judge threw for a PI in the 1st quarter when Nate Brooks made a great play on a ball thrown to Henderson.  Nate became very emotional, and lined up on the next play in Henderson's face...  I guess he was going to take out some frustration on him.   At the snap, Henderson mauled him, blocked him to the ground, and when Nate got back up, he was not the same player for the remainder of the game.   Way too emotional.   Every TD Henderson got from then on was due to a poor play by Brooks, even the reverse.  Brooks remained emotional all game long.

Coach Littrell needs to see that stuff and become the emotion himself, so his guys can calm down and play knowing coach has their back.

[GOMG2013]

4 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

I agree with you all about the horrible officiating, but what was even more head-scratching was watching Coach Littrell just stand by and take it.  No fire from him at all.

One of the biggest blown calls was the incredibly late flag that lady back judge threw for a PI in the 1st quarter when Nate Brooks made a great play on a ball thrown to Henderson.  Nate became very emotional, and lined up on the next play in Henderson's face...  I guess he was going to take out some frustration on him.   At the snap, Henderson mauled him, blocked him to the ground, and when Nate got back up, he was not the same player for the remainder of the game.   Way too emotional.   Every TD Henderson got from then on was due to a poor play by Brooks, even the reverse.  Brooks remained emotional all game long.

Coach Littrell needs to see that stuff and become the emotion himself, so his guys can calm down and play knowing coach has their back.

All of this.  That PI call on nate was horrible and weak.  That call extended a drive and they scored a TD.  Even the espn announcers were expecting a holding call on Henderson the next play.

The refs definitely impacted the game.

[Ben Gooding]

13 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

I agree with you all about the horrible officiating, but what was even more head-scratching was watching Coach Littrell just stand by and take it.  No fire from him at all.

One of the biggest blown calls was the incredibly late flag that lady back judge threw for a PI in the 1st quarter when Nate Brooks made a great play on a ball thrown to Henderson.  Nate became very emotional, and lined up on the next play in Henderson's face...  I guess he was going to take out some frustration on him.   At the snap, Henderson mauled him, blocked him to the ground, and when Nate got back up, he was not the same player for the remainder of the game.   Way too emotional.   Every TD Henderson got from then on was due to a poor play by Brooks, even the reverse.  Brooks remained emotional all game long.

Coach Littrell needs to see that stuff and become the emotion himself, so his guys can calm down and play knowing coach has their back.

He's a rookie HC but he has to learn to work these officials. Skip Holtz was in their ear every breaking moment in the game. Players play through their coach. If coach isn't going to verbally stick up for his players, players do in fact start to lose a little respect, especially when the bad calls are so blatantly horribly. 

[MeanGreenTexan]

Just now, Ben Gooding said:

He's a rookie HC but he has to learn to work these officials. Skip Holtz was in their ear every breaking moment in the game. Players play through their coach. If coach isn't going to verbally stick up for his players, players do in fact start to lose a little respect, especially when the bad calls are so blatantly horribly. 

Now Ben, don't go putting words in my mouth.   I don't agree that the players are losing or will lose respect for Littrell.  But I think a little fire from Littrell would have calmed Brooks down a bit and allowed him to play his best game with more focus and less emotion.

[Ben Gooding]

4 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Now Ben, don't go putting words in my mouth.   I don't agree that the players are losing or will lose respect for Littrell.  But I think a little fire from Littrell would have calmed Brooks down a bit and allowed him to play his best game with more focus and less emotion.

Respect may be a misuse of a word. How about trust? You get what I'm saying though. 

[MEANGREENCOACH2]

1 hour ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

I agree with you all about the horrible officiating, but what was even more head-scratching was watching Coach Littrell just stand by and take it.  No fire from him at all.

One of the biggest blown calls was the incredibly late flag that lady back judge threw for a PI in the 1st quarter when Nate Brooks made a great play on a ball thrown to Henderson.  Nate became very emotional, and lined up on the next play in Henderson's face...  I guess he was going to take out some frustration on him.   At the snap, Henderson mauled him, blocked him to the ground, and when Nate got back up, he was not the same player for the remainder of the game.   Way too emotional.   Every TD Henderson got from then on was due to a poor play by Brooks, even the reverse.  Brooks remained emotional all game long.

Coach Littrell needs to see that stuff and become the emotion himself, so his guys can calm down and play knowing coach has their back.

 

@GMG24

[Cerebus]

I thought the first person to lose their cool was a ref.

Early in the game i noticed one of the refs following and yelling at one of our DBs.  Our player was clearly trying to de-escalate it, giving the calm down hand signal and looked to be backing away from the ref.   After that the ref went over to SL and yelled at him about the player.  SL then went over to our player and put his hands on his shoulder pads and began to talk to him.  At that point the ref went over and began to aggressively talk and motion to the player.  It seemed to me they did a bad job de-escalating the situation.  Now to be clear I had no idea what started the situation, however...

During the game I talked to another fan, and they in fact had seen the incident that started this.  On the play immediately prior to what I saw, the player had ran into the ref, and had yelled at the ref for in effect picking him off the WR.  It seems the ref took umbrage to this.   I would hope that they did not let this incident color their officiating of the game.   Again I did not see the initial incident, this was only relayed to me.  

All I can say is I hope the AD reviews the game tape, and if there is a valid reason to be concerned about this I hope the conference office is contacted.  

[keith]

11 hours ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

Targeting and Initiating Contact to Head or Neck Area of a Defenseless Player  (Rule 9-1-4)

No player shall target and initiate contact to the head or neck area of a defenseless opponent with the helmet, forearm, fist, elbow or shoulder. When in question, it is a foul.  (Rule 2-27-14)

According to this, what McClain once again did make contact with the Head and Neck region of the QB, who was sliding and thus defenseless. 

http://www.afca.com/article/article.php?id=2342

To me there are two operative words:  target and initiate.  On the play it looked like McClain had committed to making a legal tackle.  The QB saw him coming and went into a slide to avoid the hit.  McClain led with his shoulder pad and initiated contact with the QB's shoulder pad. Because the QB was on his way down, and McClain was going more parallel to the ground, there was no way he wasn't going slide up the QB's shoulder pads and make contact with his head/neck region.  There is simply no way in the high speed game of football you can completely avoid contact with head/neck region on every play.  The rule, as I understand it is to prevent players from leading with their helmet and/or specifically targeting the head/neck region to the exclusion of other parts of the body.  Football is a contact sport and there's a reason they wear helmets.

KEY ELEMENTS

Target—to take aim at an opponent for purposes of attacking with an apparent intent that goes beyond making a legal tackle or a legal block or playing the ball.

Crown of the Helmet—the top portion of the helmet.

Contact to the head or neck area—not only with the helmet, but also with the forearm, fist, elbow, or shoulder—these can all lead to a foul.

[TIgreen01]

We've had pretty terrible officiating at Apogee several games in a row now.  It's been consistently bad.  I do think that most of the calls that went against us on the drive where we had 40 yards of penalties were self-imposed, though.  The rest of the game, not so much.  I wonder how much the fallout from the Florida game impacts this, if at all?  We got branded a dirty team after that one...