Recruiting Update

TheReal_jayD · November 3, 2016

As we set here at 4-4. The play on the field has been unbelievably better than last year. None of us though that after 8 games we would still have a chance at a bowl bid. We played our worse game of the year since SMU (I was at both and i think as a whole nUTSAck was our worse game). And if not for a questionable pick call penatly we could have been back with in a touchdown after losing turnover battle 4 to nothing. While the product on the field has been great. The product of recruiting has been atrocious. I am probably one of the biggest homers on this website. But I am just going to be honest the recruiting has been horrible this year. The staff came in after a 1-11 campaign with just one recruit committed when Seth Littrell was hired. And they rebounding quite nicely. Yes they didn't end with the best class in C-USA but they put together a nice class with a mixture of JUCOs and High School kids with alot of the class stepping in a being key contributors to the 4 and 4 record.

But as far as the 2017 class goes they are getting there butts kicked so far. I know there is still along time between now and Feb NSD. I realize the staff went from 1 commit to a class of over 20 last year in just a couple months so that gives me hope. And i understand that November commits don't mean anything right now as we learnt today with the decommitment of our Top OL recruit Josh Donovan. Maybe the staff is more concerned right now about trying to become bowl eligible than recruiting. But i honestly think you need to be able to put a winning product on the field and also be recruiting the next wave of winners for a program. Don't get me wrong we have some nice pieces committed today with the likes of Cade Pearson and Cameron Johnson leading the way. But as far as depth of a recruiting class and overall talent, teams like UTSA and Texas State are killing us right now. And I have no logical reason why that should be happening other than a lack of effort and offers by the staff. I hear alot of "Yes we are interested in North Texas" "Just waiting on a offer" or "they just stopped talking to me" or "I can't get back ahold of the staff". UTSA uses the slogan "all hands on deck" and i honestly believe that is one of the reason they are so successful they are covering alot of ground and getting in on alot of kids before they blow up, alot like SMU did right when Chad Morris took over. They are doing a really good of getting buzz around there program thru recruiting.

Overall as a staff I have been very disappointed with them as a whole for recruitment other that Coach Ekeler. I really expected more from the young guys on the staff like Coach Harrell, Filano and Brown. I even feel like Perry as simiregressed with the new staff. Which is understandable since he was the only one recruiting the last 3 to 4 years. The social media of the staff has been a ton better with the new staff but i believe there is still room for improvement. There is not near enough interaction with recruits. As far as edits and stuff goes the Colorado States and Texas States are blowing us out of the water. I honestly believe the recruiting will heat up once the season is over with with and they will put together a class that is superior to anything Dan brought in. I just hopes its not to late. I will get off soap box now.

dmaxel · November 3, 2016

I'm just going to leave this here.

http://northtexas.247sports.com/Season/2017-Football/Offers

greenminer · November 3, 2016

Appreciate the honesty, and love having an overall assessment at this point in the recruiting cycle.

TheReal_jayD · November 3, 2016

2 minutes ago, dmaxel said:

I'm just going to leave this here.

http://northtexas.247sports.com/Season/2017-Football/Offers

131 offers and they maybe missing a few. but 80% of those offers are committed to P5 schools. alot of kids on that list we havent had contact with in months . There is a ton of talented kids uncommited still out there. less than a handful of offers in the last 45 days. while our competition has had more than a handful of Commitments in the last 45 days.....

GMG_Dallas · November 3, 2016

35 minutes ago, TheReal_jayD said:

And i understand that November commits don't mean anything right now as we learnt today with the decommitment of our Top OL recruit Josh Donovan.

From what is sounds like, Donovan didn't de-commit on his own. The staff might have lost interest in him and pulled his offer. Several tweets from him and somebody close to him in the past day implying that this was the staff's doing and not his.

As far as I'm concerned, like you said, we still have a long way to go. We still have 10 commits right now which isn't where we should be but also not horrible. There will be last second gems and guys flipping left and right. If the staff is more concerned with trying to get bowl eligible, I'm fine with that. It will make us more desirable. Simply put, I think this staff is trying to go a different approach that most by getting results first and recruiting after. Hopefully it doesn't backfire. we'll see!

With the amount of blue shirts we had last year, how many spots do we have available anyways?

BillySee58 · November 3, 2016

1 hour ago, GMG_Dallas said:

With the amount of blue shirts we had last year, how many spots do we have available anyways?

I've followed that so closely ever since the 25-per-class cap was enacted, and I've seen so much contradicting information and loopholes. First Mccarney had to count four walkons, placed on scholarship with less than two seasons as a walkon, toward our 2014 class. Then the next season we did the same thing and still signed 25. And haven't counted those since, and to my knowledge that rule didn't go away.

I'd say it's safest to assume the staff finds a way to get 25.

JayD is spot on with this one. If you look at the players we signed, we didn't hardly win any head-to-head recruiting battles. Some didn't have any other FBS offers, and most of players that did have offer lists were no longer being actively recruited by the schools that did offer them. Like Hamilton (Texas State) and Moore (Rice), and all of those late JUCOs were basically free agents with other schools out of spots.

Winning recruiting battles has to pick up.

GMG_Dallas · November 4, 2016

2 hours ago, BillySee58 said:

JayD is spot on with this one. If you look at the players we signed, we didn't hardly win any head-to-head recruiting battles. Some didn't have any other FBS offers, and most of players that did have offer lists were no longer being actively recruited by the schools that did offer them. Like Hamilton (Texas State) and Moore (Rice), and all of those late JUCOs were basically free agents with other schools out of spots.

Winning recruiting battles has to pick up.

Can't really say I agree here but feel free to correct me. Last recruiting cycle was different. They had 2 months to get 25 guys. Hamilton may have been a "free agent" but we made a great signing. He's looking bright. This staff found available players they could sign and many of them are making an impact and are the reason we are 4-4.

Regarding winning recruiting battles, we can talk about how important that is later because as of right now we don't really know how good the staff is at evaluating players. We know they found a lot of gems. Several juco guys they offered last cycled ended up blowing up after we offered. Our staff found those guys and thanks to our staff they got the exposure needed to end up with offers at p5s.

As of right now it's about finding talent. We have 10 commits, most of which have no other FBS offers which means our staff believes in them. They identified these guys and went after them early. I am just as happy with that as I am with winning "battles" against UTSA and Rice. We also seem to have pushed away our top rated commit which means they aren't preoccupied with ratings and a what others think. They don't think he fits in the plans anymore and that's that. Nothing to bad mad about. They have shown with their first class of "free agents" that they can identify talent. Lets give them the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.

As of right now, our top recruits of last cycle and possibly UTSA's top recruit in Tauefa were all guys who nobody else really wanted. I'll take guys like those every class if it means success. Meanwhile, look back at our recruiting classes since 2013 or 2014 and look at all the 3 star recruits who aren't here anymore. It's pretty sad really...

It's always nice to win recruiting battles but we shouldn't automatically assume that we aren't getting quality guys just because we didn't battle 4 other schools for him.

BillySee58 · November 4, 2016

51 minutes ago, GMG_Dallas said:

Can't really say I agree here but feel free to correct me. Last recruiting cycle was different. They had 2 months to get 25 guys. Hamilton may have been a "free agent" but we made a great signing. He's looking bright. This staff found available players they could sign and many of them are making an impact and are the reason we are 4-4.

Regarding winning recruiting battles, we can talk about how important that is later because as of right now we don't really know how good the staff is at evaluating players. We know they found a lot of gems. Several juco guys they offered last cycled ended up blowing up after we offered. Our staff found those guys and thanks to our staff they got the exposure needed to end up with offers at p5s.

As of right now it's about finding talent. We have 10 commits, most of which have no other FBS offers which means our staff believes in them. They identified these guys and went after them early. I am just as happy with that as I am with winning "battles" against UTSA and Rice. We also seem to have pushed away our top rated commit which means they aren't preoccupied with ratings and a what others think. They don't think he fits in the plans anymore and that's that. Nothing to bad mad about. They have shown with their first class of "free agents" that they can identify talent. Lets give them the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.

As of right now, our top recruits of last cycle and possibly UTSA's top recruit in Tauefa were all guys who nobody else really wanted. I'll take guys like those every class if it means success. Meanwhile, look back at our recruiting classes since 2013 or 2014 and look at all the 3 star recruits who aren't here anymore. It's pretty sad really...

It's always nice to win recruiting battles but we shouldn't automatically assume that we aren't getting quality guys just because we didn't battle 4 other schools for him.

On an individual level, there are all kinds of examples of players with pedestrian offer lists, or two-stars becoming exceptional players, or the opposite. But study after study has shown that the more highly recruited/rated player, the higher likelihood of that player becoming a starter/all-conference/drafted/etc. Over the course of a recruiting class or a roster, it just becomes an example of the law of averages.

The beauty of saving a few spots late is getting guys whose other offers have expired because those schools' classes filled up. While still not winning recruiting battles in that case, the player is just as good usually. Is it really a noteworthy job of identifying talent when you get a guy plenty of other schools did offer but no longer have room for?

I've been an advocate of getting a player or two each class without any other FBS offers. The problem is signing too many of those guys like in 2012. Sure you get a Carlos Harris every once in a while, but a whole class of that gets you the senior class on a 1-11 team. Even if Littrell and his staff are good evaluators, that doesn't mean their top options are going to be kids no one else wants. It will be the opposite more times than not.

Ben Gooding · November 4, 2016

53 minutes ago, GMG_Dallas said:

Can't really say I agree here but feel free to correct me. Last recruiting cycle was different. They had 2 months to get 25 guys. Hamilton may have been a "free agent" but we made a great signing. He's looking bright. This staff found available players they could sign and many of them are making an impact and are the reason we are 4-4.

Regarding winning recruiting battles, we can talk about how important that is later because as of right now we don't really know how good the staff is at evaluating players. We know they found a lot of gems. Several juco guys they offered last cycled ended up blowing up after we offered. Our staff found those guys and thanks to our staff they got the exposure needed to end up with offers at p5s.

As of right now it's about finding talent. We have 10 commits, most of which have no other FBS offers which means our staff believes in them. They identified these guys and went after them early. I am just as happy with that as I am with winning "battles" against UTSA and Rice. We also seem to have pushed away our top rated commit which means they aren't preoccupied with ratings and a what others think. They don't think he fits in the plans anymore and that's that. Nothing to bad mad about. They have shown with their first class of "free agents" that they can identify talent. Lets give them the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.

As of right now, our top recruits of last cycle and possibly UTSA's top recruit in Tauefa were all guys who nobody else really wanted. I'll take guys like those every class if it means success. Meanwhile, look back at our recruiting classes since 2013 or 2014 and look at all the 3 star recruits who aren't here anymore. It's pretty sad really...

It's always nice to win recruiting battles but we shouldn't automatically assume that we aren't getting quality guys just because we didn't battle 4 other schools for him.

...yeah, and no one else does. Stars matter. Offer lists matter. This is proven. If you can't recruit, you can't win. If you can't win, you can't coach.

Unarguably the best team in the country is Bama. 80% of their 85 man scholarship roster are blue chip players (4 or 5 star recruits). This is large scale, but it applies. They are mauling the competition on the field because they are pushing people's dicks in on the recruiting trail.

So far, and I know it's early, but I am not impressed with Littrell and Co.'s recruiting. Their social media presence has just about fizzled out. We are not landing guys that we actually have to out recruit for. It's a forgone conclusion that if a guy we offer gets UH or even a SMU offer we'll never see them in green. Not to mention a subpar to average P5 hovering above.

GMG_Dallas · November 4, 2016

6 hours ago, BillySee58 said:

Even if Littrell and his staff are good evaluators, that doesn't mean their top options are going to be kids no one else wants. It will be the opposite more times than not.

I don't know, they just pushed away a guy others wanted and their commit list is full of guys nobody else wants. Lets also not talk stars because we aren't getting the high 3 stars low 4 stars regardless of how good our staff is due to our production past years. My point is, what's the point of getting worked up about guys with 2 or 3 other offers if those offers are the smallest of g5 schools. Does it even matter at that point? Unless a guy has 5+ offers or an offer from a p5/high tier g5, it shouldn't matter how many offers they have. Why care about a offers being given out by bad programs. You should view those offers as no offer. Don't want the same talent that has made other programs bad.

Ben Gooding · November 4, 2016

2 hours ago, GMG_Dallas said:

I don't know, they just pushed away a guy others wanted and their commit list is full of guys nobody else wants. Lets also not talk stars because we aren't getting the high 3 stars low 4 stars regardless of how good our staff is due to our production past years. My point is, what's the point of getting worked up about guys with 2 or 3 other offers if those offers are the smallest of g5 schools. Does it even matter at that point? Unless a guy has 5+ offers or an offer from a p5/high tier g5, it shouldn't matter how many offers they have. Why care about a offers being given out by bad programs. You should view those offers as no offer. Don't want the same talent that has made other programs bad.

From a competitive standpoint and to increase our odds at winning. If this doesn't matter to you then it doesn't matter.

GMG_Dallas · November 4, 2016

16 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

From a competitive standpoint and to increase our odds at winning. If this doesn't matter to you then it doesn't matter.

If your goal is to be more competitive than the smallest g5 programs than you need to set your sights a bit higher. I thought you advocated raising expectations? My point is don't fret about commits having no offers versus those with 2 or 3 small program offers. At that point, you really shouldn't assume the guy with the offers is better than the guy without the offers so why judge our coaching staff based off how many of those guys we have?

BillySee58 · November 4, 2016

2 hours ago, GMG_Dallas said:

I don't know, they just pushed away a guy others wanted and their commit list is full of guys nobody else wants. Lets also not talk stars because we aren't getting the high 3 stars low 4 stars regardless of how good our staff is due to our production past years. My point is, what's the point of getting worked up about guys with 2 or 3 other offers if those offers are the smallest of g5 schools. Does it even matter at that point? Unless a guy has 5+ offers or an offer from a p5/high tier g5, it shouldn't matter how many offers they have. Why care about a offers being given out by bad programs. You should view those offers as no offer. Don't want the same talent that has made other programs bad.

Look at our all-conference players since we joined CUSA. Their offer lists aren't spectacular (except for Trice and maybe Lemon), but they had offers nonetheless. Good, solid G5/Non-AQ offer lists.

Zach Orr - Louisiana Tech, San Diego State, Tulsa, UTEP

https://rivals.com/content/prospects/24112

Aaron Bellazin - Buffalo, ULM, San Diego State, SMU, UTEP

https://rivals.com/content/prospects/64241

Mason Y'Barbo - Houston, ULM, and some FCS schools

- Can't find the Vito article from back when he committed, but that's what he had

Derek Akunne - Air Force, Colorado State, Western Kentucky

https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/28192

Cyril Lemon - FIU, Houston, La Tech, Missouri, New Mexico State, Rice

https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/52411

Marcus Trice - At least 9 P5/BCS AQ conferences

https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/55424

James Jones - Houston, Troy, Miss. State, New Mexico

http://www.espn.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/player/_/id/172128/james-jones

Chancellor - No other FBS offers

https://rivals.com/content/prospects/18180

*^Also, I've said this before, but the positions that consistently are the biggest exception to this are smaller, speedy receivers, defensive backs (more often corners), and QBs. That's because these guys often don't get many, or any offers if they're undersized but that's not in their job description. If they can make people miss, get open, catch the ball, cover people, throw the ball/run an offense then they don't need to have plus-size for their position.

Anyways it just comes down to the law of averages. Individual recruits, it doesn't really matter. Over the course of an entire recruiting class and team, these guys are the ones who are much more likely to become all-conference guys than recruits with no other FBS offers.

Obviously there are other variables but, ceteris paribus, the more of these recruits you have on your roster, the more likely you are to have more all-conference guys. Or, in the case of last year, if you don't really have any of these guys as your upperclassmen, that's a good recipe for ending with no all-conference guys, which we did.

Ben Gooding · November 4, 2016

1 hour ago, GMG_Dallas said:

If your goal is to be more competitive than the smallest g5 programs than you need to set your sights a bit higher. I thought you advocated raising expectations? My point is don't fret about commits having no offers versus those with 2 or 3 small program offers. At that point, you really shouldn't assume the guy with the offers is better than the guy without the offers so why judge our coaching staff based off how many of those guys we have?

I am a huge advocate of raising expectations. Expectations drives results. With that said, we just can't rely on dudes with no offers to fill this roster. It's a very Dan McCarney approach. I think this staff is a better in recruiting than Dan and Co., but only because they have been able to identify and land quality JUCO players that have come in and have been productive right away. As far as high school guys, this staff is landing the same caliber guys that Dan McCarney and Co landed. It doesn't bode well. Above Billy kind of laid it out for you. In recruiting, if we always do what we've always done, we'll always be what we've always been. I don't want that. Plus, we are seen my many high school coaches and players as a bottom of the barrel D1 program. So, yes, beating out ANY other 'small' D1 program is a victory for us RIGHT now. I don't just want dudes because other programs want them. I want them because it's proven that when multiple programs are diving in on a guy he's got the goods to be a productive player at the D1 level.

Wag Tag · November 4, 2016

16 hours ago, TheReal_jayD said:

As we set here at 4-4. The play on the field has been unbelievably better than last year. None of us though that after 8 games we would still have a chance at a bowl bid. We played our worse game of the year since SMU (I was at both and i think as a whole nUTSAck was our worse game). And if not for a questionable pick call penatly we could have been back with in a touchdown after losing turnover battle 4 to nothing. While the product on the field has been great. The product of recruiting has been atrocious. I am probably one of the biggest homers on this website. But I am just going to be honest the recruiting has been horrible this year. The staff came in after a 1-11 campaign with just one recruit committed when Seth Littrell was hired. And they rebounding quite nicely. Yes they didn't end with the best class in C-USA but they put together a nice class with a mixture of JUCOs and High School kids with alot of the class stepping in a being key contributors to the 4 and 4 record.

But as far as the 2017 class goes they are getting there butts kicked so far. I know there is still along time between now and Feb NSD. I realize the staff went from 1 commit to a class of over 20 last year in just a couple months so that gives me hope. And i understand that November commits don't mean anything right now as we learnt today with the decommitment of our Top OL recruit Josh Donovan. Maybe the staff is more concerned right now about trying to become bowl eligible than recruiting. But i honestly think you need to be able to put a winning product on the field and also be recruiting the next wave of winners for a program. Don't get me wrong we have some nice pieces committed today with the likes of Cade Pearson and Cameron Johnson leading the way. But as far as depth of a recruiting class and overall talent, teams like UTSA and Texas State are killing us right now. And I have no logical reason why that should be happening other than a lack of effort and offers by the staff. I hear alot of "Yes we are interested in North Texas" "Just waiting on a offer" or "they just stopped talking to me" or "I can't get back ahold of the staff". UTSA uses the slogan "all hands on deck" and i honestly believe that is one of the reason they are so successful they are covering alot of ground and getting in on alot of kids before they blow up, alot like SMU did right when Chad Morris took over. They are doing a really good of getting buzz around there program thru recruiting.

Overall as a staff I have been very disappointed with them as a whole for recruitment other that Coach Ekeler. I really expected more from the young guys on the staff like Coach Harrell, Filano and Brown. I even feel like Perry as simiregressed with the new staff. Which is understandable since he was the only one recruiting the last 3 to 4 years. The social media of the staff has been a ton better with the new staff but i believe there is still room for improvement. There is not near enough interaction with recruits. As far as edits and stuff goes the Colorado States and Texas States are blowing us out of the water. I honestly believe the recruiting will heat up once the season is over with with and they will put together a class that is superior to anything Dan brought in. I just hopes its not to late. I will get off soap box now.

LOOK AT UTSA...CB with 2 big 10 offers and 1 pac 12, CB with a pac 12 offer, Ath 1 big 12 and a ACC offer! CUSA #1 RANKING!

This is the first season for this coach! This should be the measuring point for our class, no exceptions!

I know it is early and I have confidence in our coaches but there really is no excuse not to do as well or better than UTSA!

DON'T loose EK!

Harry · November 4, 2016

Really good analysis by both @TheReal_jayD @BillySee58 and others in this very important thread.

I am not one who lives and dies by the stars, but I also agree wholeheartedly with Bill and JD on the fact that the law of averages does play into it. And yes, to piggy back on Vito -- recruiting matters -- it matters a lot in my estimation moreso than "coaching-up" and "x's and o's".

Pointing these facts out does not not mean one is less enthused about our staff and the wonderful direction we see this program heading under Littrell etc.. so please don't take it that way.

It does say that - right now - we are a little behind some other programs in C-USA in terms of stockpiling the higher rated players according to the recruiting services. That can change a lot in the coming months as we have seen before. What I mean is, as you close into the holidays, there are a lot of good players who face the reality they are not going to Texas or A&M etc... They want to play college football and get their education paid for in return. So now their offer list changes.

I have not been a big proponent of lots of early commits and the reason why is it puts a spotlight on them for bigger programs later down the line. UTSA has experienced this in the past, as under Coker they had a lot of early commits end up decommitting later on for bigger offers. I think you need to go after some guys that you feel like you have a legitimate shot or connection with and stay on them for the duration. You also need to leave room for the studs that fall through the cracks either due to grades injury etc... Mac really struggled with this concept. He would load up on early commits and then realized he had to turn away better talent late because he had given up too many spots early.

I like what La. Tech does. They go hard after guys they like early but they don't waste time on guys who will never go there. They seem very efficient and are keen evaluators. They go pretty heavy on good player in Louisiana cause they know not all of them will go to LSU or p5. They dip into East Texas and cherry pick the best players for their system. They use a Trimester system for academics which I have been told by college assistant gives them a unique advantage with guys that have marginal grades. They are always getting the top of the line transfers (see Fla transfer QB, LSU transfer WR etc). They have a system, a methodology they stick to and it works.

This is the area that I hope Wren and the coaching staff will work together on. RV always felt like he did everything that the coaches needed to be successful. Did they agree? I can't answer that. I can now judge the results. We need all of this Wren staff and the coaches to be on the same page in terms of MAXIMIZING our recruiting of student athletes. I feel we have so much potential in this area.

I also want to emphasize how damn important it is that Wren and staff work HARD to keep the coaching staff intact. I realize if a p5 comes calling we don't have the budget to battle them but if it is Tulsa or other g5's. We never did that in the past. If another school offered $15K more they were gone and we did nothing to try to keep them here.

Sorry for the novella but these are things I feel very passionate about. We have so many huge advantages over schools we compete for players against, but I think it has been lost in the translation and vying factions over the years. I really think Wren/Lettrell etc get this and will right the ship accordingly. GMG

Wag Tag · November 4, 2016

1 hour ago, Harry said:

Really good analysis by both @TheReal_jayD @BillySee58 and others in this very important thread.

I am not one who lives and dies by the stars, but I also agree wholeheartedly with Bill and JD on the fact that the law of averages does play into it. And yes, to piggy back on Vito -- recruiting matters -- it matters a lot in my estimation moreso than "coaching-up" and "x's and o's".

Pointing these facts out does not not mean one is less enthused about our staff and the wonderful direction we see this program heading under Littrell etc.. so please don't take it that way.

It does say that - right now - we are a little behind some other programs in C-USA in terms of stockpiling the higher rated players according to the recruiting services. That can change a lot in the coming months as we have seen before. What I mean is, as you close into the holidays, there are a lot of good players who face the reality they are not going to Texas or A&M etc... They want to play college football and get their education paid for in return. So now their offer list changes.

I have not been a big proponent of lots of early commits and the reason why is it puts a spotlight on them for bigger programs later down the line. UTSA has experienced this in the past, as under Coker they had a lot of early commits end up decommitting later on for bigger offers. I think you need to go after some guys that you feel like you have a legitimate shot or connection with and stay on them for the duration. You also need to leave room for the studs that fall through the cracks either due to grades injury etc... Mac really struggled with this concept. He would load up on early commits and then realized he had to turn away better talent late because he had given up too many spots early.

I like what La. Tech does. They go hard after guys they like early but they don't waste time on guys who will never go there. They seem very efficient and are keen evaluators. They go pretty heavy on good player in Louisiana cause they know not all of them will go to LSU or p5. They dip into East Texas and cherry pick the best players for their system. They use a Trimester system for academics which I have been told by college assistant gives them a unique advantage with guys that have marginal grades. They are always getting the top of the line transfers (see Fla transfer QB, LSU transfer WR etc). They have a system, a methodology they stick to and it works.

This is the area that I hope Wren and the coaching staff will work together on. RV always felt like he did everything that the coaches needed to be successful. Did they agree? I can't answer that. I can now judge the results. We need all of this Wren staff and the coaches to be on the same page in terms of MAXIMIZING our recruiting of student athletes. I feel we have so much potential in this area.

I also want to emphasize how damn important it is that Wren and staff work HARD to keep the coaching staff intact. I realize if a p5 comes calling we don't have the budget to battle them but if it is Tulsa or other g5's. We never did that in the past. If another school offered $15K more they were gone and we did nothing to try to keep them here.

Sorry for the novella but these are things I feel very passionate about. We have so many huge advantages over schools we compete for players against, but I think it has been lost in the translation and vying factions over the years. I really think Wren/Lettrell etc get this and will right the ship accordingly. GMG

I don't think you can time a commit. An example would be the College of Science signing with Florida after Ek dug him up very late in the cycle. If you start with 20 you have a greater chance of keeping a higher number than if you start with 8. Early commits would need to understand no more visits, tryouts or encouraging offers. The offer could be pulled for these reasons.

La Tech always seems to get the biggest bang for the buck! I would like to see us become transfer U for players that want to be closer to home. I also agree with holding a few scholys for last minute deals.

Make EK Asst Head coach and give him a good raise!

MeanGreenHoops · November 4, 2016

I said to some of my friends 4 games in, well we know this staff can coach, i sure hope the can recruit, because if they can then we really have something. So far this recruiting doesn't look any different than any other than last 10 years around here. Hopefully, this they know something we don't.

BTG_Fan1 · November 5, 2016

We need to do what SMU has done, the past 2 classes I believe every player they have signed is from the state of TX. We need to do this, I think. The lack of games on TV, I think also hurts us compared to UTSA who is broadcasted in the SA Area i believe.. UNT i mean for real, we have a school that is know for Radio/TV, they should be buying up air time on the Denton County Public Broadcast channel and having the kids run it for real-world experience, as well. Offering up stuff like this would help the school get more publicity, and have the students more prepared for careers as well.

Also could the lack of recruiting be because of coaches trying to focus on the games or are they just not going out as much as they were in the past? Also, what are some fixes that we can do as a staff? Because I know they get emails and tweets from people on here about different kids, but its no help if they don't purpose it or anything. or is the staff thinking and believing if they win on the field, kids will come here?

GrandGreen · November 6, 2016

Again, the star rating is about provability and is far from a sure thing. Stars are basically a function of who recruits who, not some mystical evaluation done by unbiased sports analysts. As such, it is about as accurate as a rating system can be. A player who gets multiple high level team P5 offers is just a lot more likely to be a good to great player than a borderline prospect with one or two g5 opportunities.

Frankly, some of LIttrell's recruiting comments scare me. Mainly, because I have been hearing them from NT football coaches for decades. Stars don't matter, we will get the players we need to win. It just seldom works that way. Yes, you can find a lot of unheralded players that can be college football stars. But the odds of finding enough of them to compete at a championship level is suspect.

To consistently beat any team, you have to recruit at least above or close to their level. A real good coach can win games with less talent, but few can win enough to elevate a program.

Ben Gooding · November 6, 2016

On 11/4/2016 at 10:57 PM, BTG_Fan1 said:

We need to do what SMU has done, the past 2 classes I believe every player they have signed is from the state of TX. We need to do this, I think. The lack of games on TV, I think also hurts us compared to UTSA who is broadcasted in the SA Area i believe.. UNT i mean for real, we have a school that is know for Radio/TV, they should be buying up air time on the Denton County Public Broadcast channel and having the kids run it for real-world experience, as well. Offering up stuff like this would help the school get more publicity, and have the students more prepared for careers as well.

Also could the lack of recruiting be because of coaches trying to focus on the games or are they just not going out as much as they were in the past? Also, what are some fixes that we can do as a staff? Because I know they get emails and tweets from people on here about different kids, but its no help if they don't purpose it or anything. or is the staff thinking and believing if they win on the field, kids will come here?

As far as the air time...Is the BTGfan1 checkbook going to buy up this air time? That's what I was asked when stating exactly this. Because God forbid UNT doing something worthwhile that costs money.

1 hour ago, GrandGreen said:

Again, the star rating is about provability and is far from a sure thing. Stars are basically a function of who recruits who, not some mystical evaluation done by unbiased sports analysts. As such, it is about as accurate as a rating system can be. A player who gets multiple high level team P5 offers is just a lot more likely to be a good to great player than a borderline prospect with one or two g5 opportunities.

Frankly, some of LIttrell's recruiting comments scare me. Mainly, because I have been hearing them from NT football coaches for decades. Stars don't matter, we will get the players we need to win. It just seldom works that way. Yes, you can find a lot of unheralded players that can be college football stars. But the odds of finding enough of them to compete at a championship level is suspect.

To consistently beat any team, you have to recruit at least above or close to their level. A real good coach can win games with less talent, but few can win enough to elevate a program.

When I hear a coach say stars don't matter or we'll get players that "fit our system" it all but tells me we're getting our faces pushed in on the recruiting trail. If this philosophy is true why do the blueblood programs have dominantly blue chip recruits in their signing classes year after year? Or why, even in g5, do the programs that recruit the best as far as 247sports typically have winning seasons in the following seasons. Those kind of remarks is a cop out. It's a save face comment to buy time. It's mostly just bullS though.

DeepGreen · November 6, 2016

Visited the La Tech board and read a post that basically said they have a recruiter person that "lives/resides" in the Dallas-fort Worth area; I'm sure that includes East Texas too.

MeanGreen13 · November 6, 2016

I think I have said this on here before, but I think the recruiting will see a significant uptick in Littrell's 3rd recruiting class once they can settle in. I really think that the first two classes are going to be about taking risks to stabilize the program and them you will see the benefits in recruiting once the coaches show what they can do with the players they already have. We'll see if I am right.

BTG_Fan1 · November 6, 2016

UNT could easily get the time donated since it paid through taxes and would also generate ad revenue from companies or even lead to people coming to Denton for different reasons as well..

NorthTexan95 · November 7, 2016

This is a depressing thread. <deep breath>

Ok. I believe I can take solace in one thing. From everything I've heard Seth and crew are working much harder at recruiting than McCarney's staff ever did. What I don't know is how this compares to other programs like La Tech. If there are resources that need to be added to enhance recruiting then I believe Wren will somehow make it happen. As someone said above, it may take a few recruiting seasons for a real bump to be noticeable but if we can win then it should happen.

I hope.

Edited November 7, 2016 by NorthTexan95