Scheduling Tweet from Wren Baker: Syracuse?

Aldo · October 21, 2016

Average 2016 attendance for Apogee vs FBS

20,889

Bethune-Cookman attendance

15,609

No one gives a crap about FCS wins.

Sure, may be one win closer to 6, and it may light a fire for the team, but if you're a 7 win team, then you're a 7 win team. If you're a 4 win team, you're a 4 win team.

Also, if you read articles about North Texas football right now, they've all had the caveat of "but they've only played X, Y, Z".

Given our performance so far this season with a young team, we shouldn't be afraid to play teams like Syracuse.

A win against Syracuse > A win against FCS

Let THAT light a fire

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF · October 21, 2016

18 minutes ago, Aldo said:

Average 2016 attendance for Apogee vs FBS

20,889

Bethune-Cookman attendance

15,609

No one gives a crap about FCS wins.

Sure, may be one win closer to 6, and it may light a fire for the team, but if you're a 7 win team, then you're a 7 win team. If you're a 4 win team, you're a 4 win team.

Also, if you read articles about North Texas football right now, they've all had the caveat of "but they've only played X, Y, Z".

Given our performance so far this season with a young team, we shouldn't be afraid to play teams like Syracuse.

A win against Syracuse > A win against FCS

Let THAT light a fire

Not so fast, my friend!

If that win allows us to be 6-6 and go to a bowl, it will have been a very important win. No matter how "insignificant" the bowl game is, any coach will tell you a bowl game gives the coaches an opportunity for a few more weeks of valuable practice time...as well as a chance to tell recruits, "hey, tune in and watch our bowl game!"

Aldo · October 21, 2016

1 minute ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

Not so fast, my friend!

If that win allows us to be 6-6 and go to a bowl, it will have been a very important win. No matter how "insignificant" the bowl game is, any coach will tell you a bowl game gives the coaches an opportunity for a few more weeks of valuable practice time...as well as a chance to tell recruits, "hey, tune in and watch our bowl game!"

That should only happen as an exception.

6-6 is not acceptable.

6-6 won't get us great recruits.

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF · October 21, 2016

Just now, Aldo said:

That should only happen as an exception.

6-6 is not acceptable.

It's acceptable for a first year coach taking on a squad that has had only one winning season since 2004. If...if we become as school that regularly wins 8 or 9 games a season, then we can talk about dropping the FCS schedules.

However...

...as it now stands - and, as has already been demonstrated - we are with the majority or P5s and G5s in our scheduling philosophy, not the minority.

Aldo · October 21, 2016

1 minute ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

It's acceptable for a first year coach taking on a squad that has had only one winning season since 2004. If...if we become as school that regularly wins 8 or 9 games a season, then we can talk about dropping the FCS schedules.

However...

...as it now stands - and, as has already been demonstrated - we are with the majority or P5s and G5s in our scheduling philosophy, not the minority.

Well soon I hope we change for the better and grow some balls

Can't piecemeal change. Especially not how historically bad we were.

Change everything, which is what we are in the process of doing.

MEANGREENCOACH2 · October 21, 2016

SO lets get more people in the stadium to watch us get destroyed or have enough wins to get to a bowl game so our game can be televised.

Our fan base already knows that we have sucked for almost the past decade why encourage them to show up for another loss?

Aldo · October 21, 2016

Also, to counter my comment, playing Syracuse isn't ballsy really.

MEANGREENCOACH2 · October 21, 2016

I love North Texas but Syracuse would destroy us right now!

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF · October 21, 2016

1 minute ago, Aldo said:

Well soon I hope we change for the better and grow some balls

Can't piecemeal change. Especially not how historically bad we were.

Change everything, which is what we are in the process of doing.

By "change," you mean go back to the way we used to schedule:
2007, Oklahoma and Arkansas
2008, Kansas State and LSU
2010, Clemson and Kansas State
2011, Alabama and Indiana
2012, LSU and Kansas State (again)

Aldo · October 21, 2016

Just now, MeanGreenMailbox said:

By "change," you mean go back to the way we used to schedule:
2007, Oklahoma and Arkansas
2008, Kansas State and LSU
2010, Clemson and Kansas State
2011, Alabama and Indiana
2012, LSU and Kansas State (again)

And the person that scheduled those is where now?

Syracuse can't hold Oklahoma, Arkansas, LSU, Clemson, or Alabama's jock strap.

UNTLifer · October 21, 2016

2 minutes ago, Aldo said:

That should only happen as an exception.

6-6 is not acceptable.

6-6 won't get us great recruits.

Our goal now should be 6-6, for this season only. Build on that record. Boise State and Kansas State are two programs that were either not well known or a constant loser and they changed their programs by first scheduling games that they could win. If we have 8 conference games, then that leaves us with 4 OOC to schedule. Currently that includes home and homes with SMU and Army, a P5 to collect a check and one more which Mac preferred as a winnable FCS school. I like the Army and SMU series, but both, at the same time, hamper our schedule flexibility. I would prefer the following four OOC games.

1. FBS at home to work out the kinks, show areas we need to improve, etc.... while providing a win.

2. Home and home Series with SMU or a Service Academy, but not both.

3. A road P5 game that we are competitive in while collecting a large ransom.

4. A lower level P5 home and home series. This would be on the opposite rotation of the SMU/Service Academy series so that when one is at home the other is away.

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF · October 21, 2016

8 minutes ago, MEANGREENCOACH2 said:

I love North Texas but Syracuse would destroy us right now!

It also doesn't really fit Syracuse's OOC scheduling pattern:

They haven't been this far south and west since a 1997 game at Oklahoma.

They haven't played a non-Bowl Alliance/Bowl Coalition/FBS/P5 school since a 1994 trip to East Carolina.

They haven't played in Texas since a 1993 at UT.

Aldo · October 21, 2016

5 minutes ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

It also doesn't really fit Syracuse's OOC scheduling pattern:

They haven't been this far south and west since a 1997 game at Oklahoma.

They haven't played a non-Bowl Alliance/Bowl Coalition/FBS/P5 school since a 1994 trip to East Carolina.

They haven't played in Texas since a 1993 at UT.

So because they don't do it we shouldn't ask?

7 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Our goal now should be 6-6, for this season only.

Exactly, which it's already scheduled out.

I assumed our schedule was set in stone for the next 5 years, but if it's not, please let's work on it.

In 5 years, I pray to Scrappy that we should expect a 7-8 win team.

Not "if".

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF · October 21, 2016

13 minutes ago, Aldo said:

And the person that scheduled those is where now?

Syracuse can't hold Oklahoma, Arkansas, LSU, Clemson, or Alabama's jock strap.

I agree that Syracuse couldn't hold those schools' jock straps. But, that's not the point. If Syracuse is bad, why would they go on the road to a G5 in Texas? There are closer G5s with whom they can attempt to pad their schedules.

The point is, we did do both types of scheduling under RV. There is some sort of notion that we didn't. We also got a winnable BCS school here in Indiana under RV. Also...had Kansas State and Baylor here under RV.

So...these things wouldn't be new or change.

Scheduling isn't as easy as people on this board think it is. With bigger schools, there has to be a very good incentive ($$$), to go to a G5 school's place OOC.

The thing working in our favor is that Syracuse's new AD has no prior AD experience, so he can probably be fleeced.

Edited October 21, 2016 by MeanGreenMailbox

Aldo · October 21, 2016

Just now, MeanGreenMailbox said:

We also got a winnable BCS school here in Indiana under RV. Also...had Kansas State and Baylor here under RV.

Those were scheduled a long time ago. Now look forward beyond 2011.

Oh the dichotomy.

To be clear, I don't know if we'll be able to get away from money games.

But we need to bring some programs that people want to go watch, instead of the "They're playing who? I'll just stay home and watch the ___ State game." attitude I see around town.

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF · October 21, 2016

11 minutes ago, Aldo said:

Those were scheduled a long time ago. Now look forward beyond 2011.

Oh the dichotomy.

To be clear, I don't know if we'll be able to get away from money games.

But we need to bring some programs that people want to go watch, instead of the "They're playing who? I'll just stay home and watch the ___ State game." attitude I see around town.

It's not just the away money games, it's do we have the money to pay to bring in bigger schools...who are also trying to fill their OOCs with as many winnable home games as possible?

Away money games are a way a life for schools in our situation. I just think there is some sort of silly notion (also, disproven earlier) out there that there are all of these P5 school dying to get on the road to G5 schools with the fewer and fewer OOC opportunities they have.

We have a nice, new stadium, but it is not one where the gate is going to be very high, even if it sells out. Again, there has to be a monetary incentive for schools to come here, in most cases.

Baylor, who once went to Fouts, now has a series with Texas Tech at JerryWorld. They aren't coming here. They have no reason to come here. Ditto Tech, for the same reason. And, both also are already up the road in Fort Worth every other season.

If we've attempted to Syracuse, that is good. But, it doesn't mean the prior AD didn't also try to get those type of schools in here. Scheduling isn't a slam dunk for a school of any size. Again, Nick Saban publicly says Alabama plays the kickoff games because they can't get many schools to come to Tuscaloosa these days.

Everyone is more careful about their OOC's in this moneyball era of college football. Our problem has been that we haven't had the money to lure many P5s in here.

untbowler · October 21, 2016

I would be all over Syracuse coming to town, grew up a Cuse fan, still have the 1987 Sugar Bowl Pennant when they went undefeated with the Tie against Auburn at the Sugar Bowl that year. Believe either the Canes or the Huskers won the title that year.

ABrownGMG · October 21, 2016

WE WANT BAMA!

MeanGreenTexan · October 21, 2016

1 hour ago, Aldo said:

That should only happen as an exception.

6-6 is not acceptable.

6-6 won't get us great recruits.

6-6 is BEYOND acceptable for where NT is now.

6-6 with a bowl appearance after a 1-11 season will absolutely get us recruits.

Aldo · October 21, 2016

21 minutes ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

But, it doesn't mean the prior AD didn't also try to get those type of schools in here.

Um...spoilers.

The final thing I will say is: wanting a guaranteed win is ignoring the status of the actual football team. No matter how competitive we may be against FBS, we still want that win.

Using that win against an FCS as a crutch is bad business and reliant upon an uncompetitive FCS team.

We need to be more focused on fielding a good team, with good coaches, with quality administration that supports their student athletes and staff.

Those good teams should be expected to beat anyone we bring in.

9 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

6-6 is BEYOND acceptable for where NT is now.

6-6 with a bowl appearance after a 1-11 season will absolutely get us recruits.

See my "exception" comment. The quality of recruits between a 6 win team vs an 8 win team are likely vastly different.

Y'all are thinking in the present. Sure 6-6 would be great this year.

But 4, 5, 6 years from now with our schedule? We should expect to beat anyone that comes through Apogee.

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF · October 21, 2016

4 minutes ago, Aldo said:

Um...spoilers.

The final thing I will say is: wanting a guaranteed win is ignoring the status of the actual football team. No matter how competitive we may be against FBS, we still want that win.

Using that win against an FCS as a crutch is bad business and reliant upon an uncompetitive FCS team.

We need to be more focused on fielding a good team, with good coaches, with quality administration that supports their student athletes and staff.

Those good teams should be expected to beat anyone we bring in.

See my "exception" comment. The quality of recruits between a 6 win team vs an 8 win team are likely vastly different.

Y'all are thinking in the present. Sure 6-6 would be great this year.

But 4, 5, 6 years from now with our schedule? We should expect to beat anyone that comes through Apogee.

So, why is it a "crutch" for us, but not the other 100+ FBS schools who also schedule FCS schools (also, posted in the past)?

That's the point, we aren't doing anything everyone else isn't already doing. We've done multiple BCS/P5. We've done one BCS/P5, home and home mid-major. We've done FCS.

There isn't a schedule style we haven't done in the past two decade that is radically different in any way to any other program. In fact, once you look at other program's schedules, you see that we fall in line with the vast majority of school, P5 and G5.

Aldo · October 21, 2016

11 minutes ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

So, why is it a "crutch" for us, but not the other 100+ FBS schools who also schedule FCS schools (also, posted in the past)?

Because without:

20 minutes ago, Aldo said:

We need to be more focused on fielding a good team, with good coaches, with quality administration that supports their student athletes and staff.

you lose 66-7.

MeanGreenTexan · October 21, 2016

12 minutes ago, Aldo said:

See my "exception" comment. The quality of recruits between a 6 win team vs an 8 win team are likely vastly different.

Y'all are thinking in the present. Sure 6-6 would be great this year.

But 4, 5, 6 years from now with our schedule? We should expect to beat anyone that comes through Apogee.

We have to think in the present right now. We're in a huge hole. And yes, after a 6-6 season, we need to continue to improve. Expect a 7-win season next year. Expect an 8-win season the next... But we have to build starting somewhere.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but if UNT happens to reach 6-6 this season and goes to a bowl, and UNT only hits 6-6 next year VS Lamar, that win does not count towards our bowl eligibility, so we would not be bowl-eligible, correct?

As much as I would love to dump the FCS game, I think as long as we have our paycheck games on the docket, we need to keep them. They balance each other out.
Now, if we can get rid of the paycheck games, then we can also get rid of the FCS games and start building these home/home series. Making up that budget shortfall of ~$800k is going to be Baker's job though... or we could see more money come from the University budget to make that up, but if we go that route, the funds would likely have to come from somewhere else (re: academic programs), and that is not going to go over well with faculty/students.

Eagle-96 · October 21, 2016

47 minutes ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

It's not just the away money games, it's do we have the money to pay to bring in bigger schools...who are also trying to fill their OOCs with as many winnable home games as possible?

Away money games are a way a life for schools in our situation. I just think there is some sort of silly notion (also, disproven earlier) out there that there are all of these P5 school dying to get on the road to G5 schools with the fewer and fewer OOC opportunities they have.

We have a nice, new stadium, but it is not one where the gate is going to be very high, even if it sells out. Again, there has to be a monetary incentive for schools to come here, in most cases.

Baylor, who once went to Fouts, now has a series with Texas Tech at JerryWorld. They aren't coming here. They have no reason to come here. Ditto Tech, for the same reason. And, both also are already up the road in Fort Worth every other season.

If we've attempted to Syracuse, that is good. But, it doesn't mean the prior AD didn't also try to get those type of schools in here. Scheduling isn't a slam dunk for a school of any size. Again, Nick Saban publicly says Alabama plays the kickoff games because they can't get many schools to come to Tuscaloosa these days.

Everyone is more careful about their OOC's in this moneyball era of college football. Our problem has been that we haven't had the money to lure many P5s in here.

Umm actually the Athletic Department report that just came out states that not only did RV not attempt to schedule those types of schools HE REBUFFED P5 SCHOOLS THAT WANTED TO PLAY AT APOGEE BECAUSE HE WAS SCARED THAT THEY WOULD HAVE MORE FANS. I don't want to beat a dead horse but Mr Ed is fixin' to get a whuppin. RV was terrible at scheduling and should be embarrassed at that aspect of his tenure among many many other things.

Edited October 21, 2016 by Eagle-96