Why not a State Fair game for North Texas?

[Green Mean]

3 minutes ago, Harry said:

I understand the historical dissent.  Respectfully that was a long time ago.  Keep in mind, tho we had an amazing crowd for that 2014 HOD game.  I believe many of the attendees were alumni who for whatever reason will not make it to Apogee.  We need to keep a Dallas bridge in place that feeds our alumni back to Denton.  I think the State Fair is such a great backdrop and there are so many DFW alumni who wI'll make at least one trip to the fair every year.  Why not try to rope them into a Football game at a fraction of the price of Texas OU?  UNT is trying to build its presence in Dallas and we have UNT Dallas and the Law school now.  The opponent would be the key...needs to be someone who will bring people.  Frankly Oklahoma State is a different program now and would bring a lot more fans than they did back when we played them before. 

I find it weird that some alums would go to the HoD game and won't ever come to Denton.  If that is the case then maybe they're the issue.  Denton isn't not more than 30-45 mins away for most of the metroplex so building a pipeline in Dallas doesn't make any sense to me because Denton is part of DFW as a whole..  If people want to come to Denton then they will...if they don't then they simply won't.  

I just think the school and athletics program haven't ever really given our alums to care enough to come to Denton and be connected.  We have to fill up Apogee every game first and we only achieve that by winning and winning big including consistently flirting top 25 ranking.  We have Apogee and built it for a reason.

[UNTLifer]

It doesn't get much easier than taking the A Train and shuttle.

[JesseMartin]

2 hours ago, UNT 90 Grad said:

YES.   But only if we still get at least 6 home games at Apogee too.  Figure that out and you have my vote.  

Ooohhh...yeah, that should be our opening "demand," but I have an idea for a compromise if it's an annual series against SMU or La Tech or such...alternate years where each team gets 6 actual home games, and on the years where this is considered the 6th, have it included in the season ticket package...and sweeten the deal with a special package for season ticket holders even when it's considered an away game.  I don't even know what their thoughts would be, just thinking ahead as to how we could ensure die-hard fans don't get screwed if we don't get exactly what we want.

1 hour ago, shaft said:

The State Fair would be a great venue for the annual LA Tech game.

Oh God yes.  Especially if we could start getting their fan base to make the trip by knowing they could plan around that.  It could be a bust, who knows, but it could be AWESOME.

[MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF]

2 hours ago, JesseMartin said:

What confuses me about the opposition to this idea is that everyone says that we want to build into a big-time football program...they all have great big modern stadiums, but many play a neutral site game every year.  So...we want to grow to be considered in their league, and we're going to do that by doing some of the things that they do, but not other things that they do?

Already covered a few weeks back:

-Houston and Rice do it to get bigger schools to agree to play them.  Gate being the same or equal, they go ahead and do it.  And, they generally get better TV exposure from the games. 

-Alabama does it because no big time school will play them OOC at Bama, Saban claims.

Some of our fans oppose it because:  (1) they live in a dream world where college football scheduling is easy, and (2) the same dream world they live in says that other schools, also vying for more OOC home games will magically set that inclination aside just to play at Apogee, a stadium that seats less than 35k.

 

[JesseMartin]

12 minutes ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

Already covered a few weeks back:

-Houston and Rice do it to get bigger schools to agree to play them.  Gate being the same or equal, they go ahead and do it.  And, they generally get better TV exposure from the games. 

-Alabama does it because no big time school will play them OOC at Bama, Saban claims.

Some of our fans oppose it because:  (1) they live in a dream world where college football scheduling is easy, and (2) the same dream world they live in says that other schools, also vying for more OOC home games will magically set that inclination aside just to play at Apogee, a stadium that seats less than 35k.

 

Yeah...I mean, it's a gorgeous stadium, but if we roll the dice and get lucky and Michigan or somebody needs to fill an OOC spot quickly...it's not likely to happen.  I hadn't considered that but it makes sense.  I'm all for using well-known mid majors to fill that baby up and eventually expand, but we haven't even tried much of that yet.

[PlummMeanGreen]

7 hours ago, shaft said:

The State Fair would be a great venue for the annual LA Tech game.

 

6 hours ago, Harry said:

I understand the historical dissent.  Respectfully that was a long time ago.  Keep in mind, tho we had an amazing crowd for that 2014 HOD game.  I believe many of the attendees were alumni who for whatever reason will not make it to Apogee.  We need to keep a Dallas bridge in place that feeds our alumni back to Denton.  I think the State Fair is such a great backdrop and there are so many DFW alumni who wI'll make at least one trip to the fair every year.  Why not try to rope them into a Football game at a fraction of the price of Texas OU?  UNT is trying to build its presence in Dallas and we have UNT Dallas and the Law school now.  The opponent would be the key...needs to be someone who will bring people.  Frankly Oklahoma State is a different program now and would bring a lot more fans than they did back when we played them before. 

Here's hoping the "Dallas Bridge" is that new 12 (or 16 lane) Super35 from Big D to Denton.  When finished it will all but eliminate traffic jams &  shorten the time it takes to get to Denton which Dallasites need to understand still didn't up &  re-locate to southern Oklahoma. Moral:  It's not that far from Dallas to Denton, folks!   Now is probably the time for Denton & UNT officials to come up with a better in & out traffic scenario for Apogee because it will be one horrific bottle neck when we start filling our football palace and we will do that (if not by a natural progression of growth); that is, with UNT's projected growth to 45,000 enrollment by the Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board in Austin; our growth near campus as well as in the city of Denton & Denton County.    

Harry, I hear all being said in this thread with an open mind, but some of us were saying the very same things about an annual game during the State Fair almost 40 years ago, but later on the real game-changer to ever trying that again came when ex Mayor Laura Miller (of Dallas Observer fame)  turned down Jerry Jones offer to (basically) bring that part of Dallas into this millennium & subsequently many felt a kick in the gut & lost interest in going out there.  Even the Cotton Bowl Classic left for Arlington while Texas/OU had to be begged to stay---(for now).  Both schools wanted to move forward from the past & playing a game during the State Fair of Texas seemed to not be some kind of magical magnet as many traditionalists may have thought it would have been.  Such trends from other high profile schools are things North Texas should pay attention IMO.  (Now a bowl game at Fair Park is just that ....a bowl game & that does have a certain magic to it as almost 38,000 North Texas Mean Green fans can attest). 

A Sad Day For This Texan:  I was floored going to the HOD Bowl game on 1/1/14 how run down things were in & around Fair Park.  As a Texan it made me sad knowing how proud all living at the time during the 1936 Texas Centennial when that whole area was a shining buckle in the Lone Star State.  Jerry Jones would have changed east Dallas for at least a half century but for an airhead ex Mayor with an agenda who last I heard doesn't even live in Texas.  

Edited October 11, 2016 by PlummMeanGreen

[MeanGreenTexan]

12 hours ago, UNT 90 Grad said:

YES.   But only if we still get at least 6 home games at Apogee too.  Figure that out and you have my vote.  

If we could work a yearly UNT/SMU game in the Cotton Bowl during the Fair and keep 6 games in Denton during the years UNT is supposed to be "home" in that series, I would be on Cloud 9.   That would be an amazing schedule.   

[Cerebus]

20 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

If we could work a yearly UNT/SMU game in the Cotton Bowl during the Fair and keep 6 games in Denton during the years UNT is supposed to be "home" in that series, I would be on Cloud 9.   That would be an amazing schedule.   

Why would another school agree to give up a home game and get nothing in return?  People who want this are asking some school to give up a home game, not get a return game in a later year, and presumably not get a million dollar payout from us.  Why would anyone agree to that?

 

[MeanGreenHoops]

11 hours ago, Green Mean said:

I find it weird that some alums would go to the HoD game and won't ever come to Denton.  If that is the case then maybe they're the issue.  Denton isn't not more than 30-45 mins away for most of the metroplex so building a pipeline in Dallas doesn't make any sense to me because Denton is part of DFW as a whole..  If people want to come to Denton then they will...if they don't then they simply won't.  

I just think the school and athletics program haven't ever really given our alums to care enough to come to Denton and be connected.  We have to fill up Apogee every game first and we only achieve that by winning and winning big including consistently flirting top 25 ranking.  We have Apogee and built it for a reason.

You might find it weird but it exists. I met two different groups at the HOD who said that exact thing. One lived south of Dallas and thought it was too far with traffic. The other lived in Georgetown so the additional 45-60 minutes was too much for them.

I also know people who live in Frisco that think it's too far to go to Dallas.

But I'm with those who say if we still get 6 home games, then yes.

[Ryan Munthe]

When I lived in Denton I never went to Dallas...maybe twice a year for a Stars game. I was only go to the SMU game if I could catch a  ride there and back.

I would not go to a UNT game at the Fair or in Dallas, no matter what.

Dallas sucks guys.

Edited October 12, 2016 by Ryan Munthe

[MeanGreenTexan]

1 minute ago, Cerebus said:

Why would another school agree to give up a home game and get nothing in return?  People who want this are asking some school to give up a home game, not get a return game in a later year, and presumably not get a million dollar payout from us.  Why would anyone agree to that?

 

No, that's not what I'm saying.  I'm saying be smart with how you schedule your home/home series & get out from under the paycheck game.
UNT/SMU would play every year in the Cotton Bowl.  Each year, one of those teams has to be "home", and one "away".   During the years UNT is "home" in that game, Wren, or whoever, would schedule an additional home game somehow.  That would be a great year to bring in an FCS.

Unfortunately, this is all pie-in-the-sky talk since our schedule is contractually locked-in until 2021.  

But, if somehow 2022's schedule looked something like:
UNT/SMU @ Cotton Bowl with UNT as "home"
UNT/<FCS> @ Apogee
UNT/<new home/home series with someone> @ Apogee
UNT/Memphis @ the Liberty Bowl
Normal Conference slate 4home/4away. 

That would be 6 actual home games, and 1 "home" game just down the road.

[GangGreen]

18 minutes ago, MeanGreenHoops said:

The other lived in Georgetown so the additional 45-60 minutes was too much for them.

You sure about that?

[Cerebus]

Just now, MeanGreenTexan said:

No, that's not what I'm saying.  I'm saying be smart with how you schedule your home/home series & get out from under the paycheck game.
UNT/SMU would play every year in the Cotton Bowl.  Each year, one of those teams has to be "home", and one "away".   During the years UNT is "home" in that game, Wren, or whoever, would schedule an additional home game somehow.  That would be a great year to bring in an FCS.

Why would SMU (or us for that matter) give up concessions, parking, etc AND then have to pay around a half million dollars to bring in an FCS?  We won't make up the lost amount in the Cotton bowl game, we'll be lucky to cover expenses.   We could use that half million dollars in a lot of other areas first, before we have a neutral site game for... what is the reason we would even want a neutral site game?

 

4 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Unfortunately, this is all pie-in-the-sky talk since our schedule is contractually locked-in until 2021.  

Next year is the last year that the SMU series is contracted.  

 

6 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

But, if somehow 2022's schedule looked something like:
UNT/SMU @ Cotton Bowl with UNT as "home"  <- 1 regular season game
UNT/<FCS> @ Apogee <- 1 regular season game
UNT/<new home/home series with someone> @ Apogee <- 1 regular season game
UNT/Memphis @ the Liberty Bowl
Normal Conference slate 4home/4away.  <- 8 regular season games
 

That is only 11 games.

[Aldo]

My response is: they have other games during the Fair?

Had no idea.

[MeanGreenTexan]

22 minutes ago, Cerebus said:

Why would SMU (or us for that matter) give up concessions, parking, etc AND then have to pay around a half million dollars to bring in an FCS?  We won't make up the lost amount in the Cotton bowl game, we'll be lucky to cover expenses.   We could use that half million dollars in a lot of other areas first, before we have a neutral site game for... what is the reason we would even want a neutral site game?   ->   If Baker can do his job, I'm betting the gap between our current budget of receiving $1.2mil from a bodybag minus $400mil for bringing in an FCS can be recuperated.  Hopefully, he can do his job well enough to earn enough to still pay an FCS to come in without hurting the rest of the budget.   A neutral site game would be fun, especially if a tradition could be made of it between UNT & SMU...  That's all.

Next year is the last year that the SMU series is contracted.   ->   I know.  This is part of the scenario, if we were to re-up that deal.

That is only 11 games.   ->   Memphis plays their home games in the Liberty Bowl.  12 games.  We're already contracted to play Memphis there in 2022.

 

[PlummMeanGreen]

Cotton Bowl Stadium: 95,000 seats

SMU vs UNT ?  (Many empty seats )

When SMU vs UNT eventually maxes out Apogee with 35,000 SRO put that number inside the CB Stadium at Fair Park & you still have 60,000 empty seats.  

Shouldn't we all be tired of empty seats galore by now?

DO IT IN DENTON!

GMG!

[Aldo]

Grambling vs PVA&M attendance: 57% capacity. Not sure if it was on tv.

The AF vs NM game will be this Saturday on ESPN News.

[MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF]

I don't think SMU or us are willing to give up what we get from the home games in this series.  Neither of us pull in enough for home games either in or out of conference to make me believe a series between us at the Cotton Bowl or JerryWorld would bring in more money.  I think it would be a push at best, and probably a money.  No regional or national TV outlet is really going to make much off of it either.

I think Rice is pretty much in the same situation.  Texas has agreed to play Rice at NRG in 2019, and LSU in 2020. 

Will those fans outnumber Rice fans?  Yes, of course.  But, Rice will get more gate money and TV money/exposure out of those games.

The Dallas area is like the Houston area in that there are a sh*t ton of people living here who weren't born here and who went to other colleges.  So, I think it would be safe to put our wet dreams about a big school coming to Apogee aside to go play in JerryWorld against a school that is a big draw.

BYU-OU drew 75,000+ at JerryWorld in 2009.  Mormons are all over Texas.  Playing BYU there would surely draw more gate and better TV than we'd normally get.

LSU is a school that will travel to an NFL stadium.  This year they went to Green Bay to play Wisconsin.  Next year, they play BYU in Houston.  In 2018, they play Miami, FL at JerryWorld.  Then, the aforementioned 2020 date at NRG with Rice.

If it's money and visibility we seek, I don't see the harm in one game every few seasons being played at JerryWorld if we can land a big name opponent the way Houston did with OU, and Rice with LSU. 

If we ever get to the point of expanding Apogee to 45-50,000 seats, then I think it might make sense to say, "Hey, our place is good enough."  Right now, it's a nice stadium (and, we're all thankful for it), but it's a small one to try to draw bigger names. 

 

1 hour ago, Aldo said:

Grambling vs PVA&M attendance: 57% capacity. Not sure if it was on tv.

The AF vs NM game will be this Saturday on ESPN News.

Along these line, Army and Notre Dame play this year in San Antonio.  If these schools think their fans will have enough seats, and they can get equal gate, they'll do it. 

Just as a show of hands, would anyone be interested in moving an Army game in our series with them to the State Fair/Cotton Bowl in the future?  Again, if the money could be the same as playing at Apogee.  If they'll go to San Antonio to play Notre Dame, why wouldn't they agree to move a game to the State Fair with a school already on their future schedule?  Lots of former Army folk in the DFW area, as well as NTSU/UNT grads. 

Anyway, hope the new AD is creative about these things in the future.

By the way, this "Air Force Classic" as its being called is sponsored by Lockheed Martin:  http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/air-force-classic-comes-to-the-cotton-bowl-lockheed-martin-presenting-sponsor-of-football-game-at-the-state-fair-of-texas-300341484.html

[Ben Gooding]

2 hours ago, Aldo said:

Grambling vs PVA&M attendance: 57% capacity. Not sure if it was on tv.

The AF vs NM game will be this Saturday on ESPN News.

This game had 55K in attendance????? If so, that is head shaking. It must have just been football hungry folks going in from the fair just to watch the game of football. 

Edited October 11, 2016 by Ben Gooding

[DT 90]

Okie State vs Purdue in the 2013 HOD  Attendance 48,313

Just think if we would have played a team that bought more than 500 fans.

 

But NO to regular season game at Cotton Bowl OR Jerry World.  If A&M and Baylor can play at Ford Field, they can play at Apogee.

[Ben Gooding]

1 minute ago, DT 90 said:

Okie State vs Purdue in the 2013 HOD  Attendance 48,313

Just think if we would have played a team that bought more than 500 fans.

 

But NO to regular season game at Cotton Bowl OR Jerry World.  If A&M and Baylor can play at Ford Field, they can play at Apogee.

I was at this game. It was unbelievably cold that day. But the stadium emptiness jumped out at me. 

[Cr1028]

I agree with @PlummMeanGreen. I think the the HOD bowl game attendance had less to do with it being in Dallas and more to do with it being a bowl game. I drove up from Austin and it was the only game I attended that year. If it had been held in Denton, I would've attended just the same. Bowl games are different. I can't imagine SMU would bring squat to the Cotton Bowl, they barely show when we play them at Ford. They brought a decent amount to Apogee this year but I doubt many more would go to a Cotton Bowl game. That stadium is past its time. OU and UT are going to get out of there and head to Jerry World (just like the Cotton Bowl Classic) as soon as they can get the right people to let them. If we are going to do a neutral game, that is the only stadium to consider. There is a reason no big-time P5s want to play at the Cotton Bowl, they all want to go to Jerry World because it is modern.

I'm ok with the Cotton Bowl for a bowl game because frankly, I'd watch us play a bowl game in a Safeway parking lot. Other than that, Let's please stay out of that crumbling old stadium.

[gangrene]

While we're at it, why not the Star in Frisco?  At a capacity of 18K, we shouldn't have a problem selling it out.

 

*Disclaimer - before anyone rails on me, although I live in Frisco, this post should not be taken seriously.

[greenjoe]

I'm surprised that Oklahoma and Texas still play in Dallas. 

[Stix]

5 hours ago, Aldo said:

Grambling vs PVA&M attendance: 57% capacity. Not sure if it was on tv.

 

3 hours ago, Ben Gooding said:

This game had 55K in attendance????? If so, that is head shaking. It must have just been football hungry folks going in from the fair just to watch the game of football. 

How many came just for the Halftime show?