DRC: breaking - Consultants report critical of UNT

MeanGreenHoops · September 29, 2016

1 hour ago, Cerebus said:

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Can someone please check on @UNT90 and make sure he hasn't had an aneurysm?

That last sentence that is not highlighted made me laugh. That is an example of RV not wanting to be embarrassed. He didn't want to schedule a team that would help fill a stadium that he couldn't fill because of his ineptness in building a fan base.

I also forgot about the part about getting out of the Super Pit. I really liked that idea too. It's not in great shape, has no amenities, and it's too big. A new 4-6K place like the report suggests would increase support, make for a better atmosphere, and increase demand just because of the decrease in seats. Really was glad to see that in the report.

GreenGuy123 · September 29, 2016

I think they need rebrand/reposition/rename the MGC and start completely over.

Also, I'd like to see the Super Pit get some major renovations vs. building a new arena. The Super Pit has great bones, a classic look, and is a great place to watch a game. I'd take the SMU route and just modernize it. Moody used to be a dump and they retooled it into something great. Why can't we do the same?

UNTFan23 · September 29, 2016

5 minutes ago, GreenGuy123 said:

I think they need rebrand/reposition/rename the MGC and start completely over.

Also, I'd like to see the Super Pit get some major renovations vs. building a new arena. The Super Pit has great bones, a classic look, and is a great place to watch a game. I'd take the SMU route and just modernize it. Moody used to be a dump and they retooled it into something great. Why can't we do the same?

The biggest challenge in renovating the SuperPit is that it is used so much throughout the year. It's not just for basketball but also UNT and area high school commencement ceremonies on top of other events. I think I heard someone say it is booked for at least two-thirds of the year.

Edited September 29, 2016 by UNTFan23

GreenGuy123 · September 29, 2016

Just now, UNTFan23 said:

The biggest challenge in renovating the SuperPit is that it is used so much throughout the year. It's not just for basketball but also UNT and area high school commencement ceremonies on top of other events. I think I heard someone say it is book for at least two-thirds of the year.

That's a good point. That place sees a ton of events.

UNT90 · September 29, 2016

1 hour ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

Thank you. Many people here talk; few open their checkbooks very wide.

Money greases the wheels in college athletics. The wheels at NTSU/UNT haven't been greased well since the mid-70s, other than getting Apogee built...and, that really was something given the history of funding here.

Again, there is a tiny, hardcore of supporters. But, we lack - and, have always lacked - what the flagship schools have: thousands upon thousands of alumni and, in some cases, even "t-shirt" supporters who pour money into the programs.

Our alumni aren't big givers. And, best of luck finding a t-shirt very often outside of Denton, much less Denton County.

And Whose job was it to go out and find that money?!?!

This is the mentality that has to stop in this fan base. "Well, I like him and he's nice to me, so I don't care if he f$@&#s UNT and their sports programs."

Because, make no mistake, that is exactly the position that you and @wardly are taking here.

And Wardly, this report wasn't done by the new AD. It had nothing to do with Wren Baker. I know it's hard to accept that you have been manipulated for years by someone you consider a friend, but ALL the facts outlined in this report clearly show that is the case.

Edited September 29, 2016 by UNT90

MeanGreenHoops · September 29, 2016

8 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

And Whose job was it to go out and find that money?!?!

This is the mentality that has to stop in this fan base. "Well, I like him and he's nice to me, so I don't care if he f$@&#s UNT and their sports programs."

Because, make no mistake, that is exactly the position that you abdWardly are taking.

This is a great point. Pointing a finger at customers who perfectly fit your market (alumni) and saying they suck for not buying your product is ridiculous. The problem lies with the brand not the consumer.

Cerebus · September 29, 2016

1 hour ago, Christopher Walker said:

As you broke to the board back in April, and I actually heard verbal confirmation of yesterday, Chancellor Jackson is gone by this time next year.

He is stepping down but we won't know if his successor will be friendly to Athletics just yet.

Aldo · September 29, 2016

4 hours ago, KRAM1 said:

Those groups cannot just sit back and "let someone else do it".

So, the question seems to be...will those groups step forward to be part of the solution or continue to sit back and let someone else do it?

Quote

There were additional complaints by fans and alumni who "wanted to give money to the AD, but nobody ever answered the phone." One fan indicated he waited over 30 minutes on hold and then gave up.

The athletic department has to meet us half way.

Hopefully the changes they are making in these areas will improve these relationships.

Also, for God's sake, stop blaming the fan base. We have been playing the hand we were dealt.

Cerebus · September 29, 2016

Just now, MeanGreenHoops said:

This is a great point. Pointing a finger at customers who perfectly fit your market (alumni) and saying they suck for not buying your product is ridiculous. The problem lies with the brand not the consumer.

Agree 100%. If everyone on this board doubled thier GIFT it wouldn't be close to enough. Hell, if everyone giving to the program doubled their GIFT it wouldn't be enough.

The Wren™ need to sell this program to others and get them involved. Get them to the games any which way we can, grow the MGC. Not just because of the money they give now, but because they will get into the habit of giving and some of them will have enough success to be future big money donors. If that future big money donor has never given, the chances to get them to write a big check is pretty small.

Small fish grow into big fish. Get to chummin.

THOR · September 29, 2016

less than 800 mean green club members...holy hell shiatt $%&* %$#% ^%&* that's pathetic...knew it was low...but $&*&%^& *&^* *^%*

oldguystudent · September 29, 2016

1 minute ago, THOR said:

less than 800 mean green club members...holy hell shiatt $%&* %$#% ^%&* that's pathetic...knew it was low...but $&*&%^& *&^* *^%*

Well why don't YOU have five memberships? What are YOU doing about this?

(Please give me beer)

Cerebus · September 29, 2016

5 minutes ago, THOR said:

less than 800 mean green club members...holy hell shiatt $%&* %$#% ^%&* that's pathetic...knew it was low...but $&*&%^& *&^* *^%*

Not sure why this is surprising, I've been harping on it for years:

Army of Dad · September 29, 2016

30 minutes ago, MeanGreenHoops said:

That last sentence that is not highlighted made me laugh. That is an example of RV not wanting to be embarrassed. He didn't want to schedule a team that would help fill a stadium that he couldn't fill because of his ineptness in building a fan base.

I also forgot about the part about getting out of the Super Pit. I really liked that idea too. It's not in great shape, has no amenities, and it's too big. A new 4-6K place like the report suggests would increase support, make for a better atmosphere, and increase demand just because of the decrease in seats. Really was glad to see that in the report.

No on the 6k max BB venue. We were drawing more than that during JJ's last years for good conference games.

UNT90 · September 29, 2016

@KingDL1 after reading about the maintenance issues, it explains the calf-high grass we encountered at our tailgate spot on opening day. Lol.

THOR · September 29, 2016

5 minutes ago, Cerebus said:

Not sure why this is surprising, I've been harping on it for years:

harping about it vs. actually seeing numbers is a bit different. we all knew there were problems in the AD, but seeing this report makes it all real and opens our eyes more

just would have thought there would have been more than 800...pathetically low

UNT90 · September 29, 2016

4 minutes ago, Army of Dad said:

No on the 6k max BB venue. We were drawing more than that during JJ's last years for good conference games.

I think the most we ever drew for conference games was around 5k. Now Texas Tech was different. About 7k for that one.,

UNTFan23 · September 29, 2016

3 minutes ago, Army of Dad said:

No on the 6k max BB venue. We were drawing more than that during JJ's last years for good conference games.

Certainly not a max 4k arena. I'd be fine with a 8k arena as we've come close to hitting that level a couple times against schools like Oklahoma State and Texas Tech. 6k in an 8k arena would look really good if the program can get back to the level Johnny Jones had it at.

Cerebus · September 29, 2016

4 minutes ago, THOR said:

harping about it vs. actually seeing numbers is a bit different.

I've posted the numbers before. I hand counted the entries on the online reports and the game day books. I even talked with the registrars office to see how many students we graduated in that time. The contrast was shocking.

You'll have to search the forum because I don't a link to those posts.

ETA: Here is a link to one thread - Growth in MGC and Season Tickets 2002-2014

UNT90 · September 29, 2016

2 minutes ago, UNTFan23 said:

Certainly not a max 4k arena. I'd be fine with a 8k arena as we've come close to hitting that level a couple times against schools like Oklahoma State and Texas Tech. 6k in an 8k arena would look really good if the program can get back to the level Johnny Jones had it at.

The goal is to create a demand for tickets. You don't want to over budget for empty seats. You want to create a buzz about the program.

6k is just about perfect.

VideoEagle · September 29, 2016

6 minutes ago, Army of Dad said:

No on the 6k max BB venue. We were drawing more than that during JJ's last years for good conference games.

Yes, the Pit can be upgraded. No, being busy is NOT a reason it can't be! Both Moody and Daniel Meyer have very busy schedules beyond basketball and their universities found ways to work around it. I spend four days shooting the installation of an additional video board in AT&T stadium and it's far busier. Some of the work was happening between midnight and 10am, but things can be done in a busy facility.

Cerebus · September 29, 2016

Quote

I've made an addition to the spreadsheet, the growth between 2002 and 2004. You can see that between those two dates we added 864 MGC members, and 4,285 season ticket holders.

Now, of course we need some context for this growth. The latest alumni numbers I have seen from the University state 300,000 alumni, with 225,000 of them living in the area. Of course most of those people became alumni long before the current AD was here.

Enrollment has grown from ~29,000 in 2002 to ~36,000 in 2014. Everyone of those students pays the Athletics Fee, but it's not by choice.

I think recent grads are the best metric to compare MGC growth. Unfortunately I don't have official numbers for the number of alumni who graduated between 2002 and 2014, but I do have numbers for 2008-2013¹. In those five the University awarded 41,102 degrees, an average of 8,220.4 degrees a year. Lets round that off to 8000 to be conservative (even though we know it's too low). I know 2014 degrees are "over 8000" but I don't have an official final number. So I think 8000 is an overly fair number per year for the last six years,

This still leaves us with no data official data for the first six years. We know enrollment grew about 24% over those years, so we could take that percentage off the average degrees awarded number, but I am going to be extremely conservative and say that we take off a full 50%. So lets assume for the first six years we awarded 4000 degrees per year.

That would leave us with an estimate of 72,000* degrees awarded 2002-2014. Again, I think that is a very low ball number, but I wanted to be conservative since we only have date for half the range.

We stated off with 211 MGC members in 2002. Some of those members stopped giving, some of them went to that great big stadium club in the sky. New members joined and by 2014 the MGC totaled 1075.

In the period of 2002-2014 the MGC grew by 864 members, while the university added (conservatively) ~72,000 new alumni.

If anyone has better data sources, or sees any flaw in my numbers or logic, please advise.

¹UNT Publication: Institutional Research and Effectiveness 2013-2014 Fact Book
*((8000x6)+(4000x6))

oldguystudent · September 29, 2016

Quote

In the period of 2002-2014 the MGC grew by 864 members, while the university added (conservatively) ~72,000 new alumni.

Woot! I'm part of the 1.2%!!!!

Ben Gooding · September 29, 2016

56 minutes ago, MeanGreenHoops said:

That last sentence that is not highlighted made me laugh. That is an example of RV not wanting to be embarrassed. He didn't want to schedule a team that would help fill a stadium that he couldn't fill because of his ineptness in building a fan base.

I also forgot about the part about getting out of the Super Pit. I really liked that idea too. It's not in great shape, has no amenities, and it's too big. A new 4-6K place like the report suggests would increase support, make for a better atmosphere, and increase demand just because of the decrease in seats. Really was glad to see that in the report.

This would actually be really, really awesome. Many alum, students, and fans attend college events because of just the atmosphere of collegiate sports. Having a 5K place would create just that kind of atmosphere where sellouts could and would happen on any given night. The place would obviously be smaller and therefore would be much more electrifying and just enjoyable. Supply and demand would create more season ticket holders alone. I'm not a basketball season ticket holder, never will be. It's just not my thing. But I do attend 6-8 home games a year because 1) I enjoy the game and 2) I come to support UNT. But this would at least make me rethink getting basketball season tickets.

Can someone confirm...I know that the idea that was pushed from the old regime was that The Pit is actually a university building and not an athletic building? Either way...it's used for MBB, WBB, graduations, and the very rare concert or speaking event. Can't we just tear that old thing down, athletic of university building? And if a 5k place does come to reality, put it there? Or is The Pit here to stand forever?

NorthTexan95 · September 29, 2016

We could remodel the Super Pit. We could take out a lot of seats, put in boxes and other amenities, and have a really nice place. However, we probably still need a place that can seat that many for other events. I've always thought a new area where Fouts was located would be really nice bookends around I-35 and provide a great first look when people come to our school. You could also build one where the old hotel was.

I live in Richmond, VA and we've purchased a small package for bball games the past few years. They have good teams and the atmosphere is terrific. It's kinda downtown so you can park, walk around to restaurants to eat, and then go into the game. It wasn't until a few years ago they got a center hung scoreboard but still had a great atmosphere.

The other benefit to building a new arena is we wouldn't have to share it so much with the university. It would be available more often to our teams for practice and games.

Ben Gooding · September 29, 2016

2 minutes ago, NorthTexan95 said:

We could remodel the Super Pit. We could take out a lot of seats, put in boxes and other amenities, and have a really nice place. However, we probably still need a place that can seat that many for other events. I've always thought a new area where Fouts was located would be really nice bookends around I-35 and provide a great first look when people come to our school. You could also build one where the old hotel was.

I live in Richmond, VA and we've purchased a small package for bball games the past few years. They have good teams and the atmosphere is terrific. It's kinda downtown so you can park, walk around to restaurants to eat, and then go into the game. It wasn't until a few years ago they got a center hung scoreboard but still had a great atmosphere.

The other benefit to building a new arena is we wouldn't have to share it so much with the university. It would be available more often to our teams for practice and games.

I've never really like the idea of practicing outside of the gym you play in. Though it goes without saying we can't practice on rims on away games. But the team should be practicing in the building they play in for depth perception reasons and general comfort. I know a lot of other universities have practice facilities for their basketball teams, but to me it doesn't really make a lot of sense. It's almost as if they have one just to say they have one to maybe boost recruiting.