DRC: breaking - Consultants report critical of UNT

[CMJ]

5 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

For the one's that would like a smaller arena, you kind of proved their point. Look at the dates on those. 

About a third are in the last ten years.

[Ben Gooding]

1 minute ago, CMJ said:

About a third are in the last ten years.

I mean, you just made their point again. 

[CMJ]

Just now, Ben Gooding said:

I mean, you just made their point again. 

How so?  All of them are over 6K...when we played in a conference with few names people were familiar with.  Other than WKU no one really had that much history in the old Belt.  Even so, we got nearly 7K out for ULL.  Let's say we were winning 20+ games a season against UTEP, ODU, or Charlotte in addition to the Hilltoppers.  There's no way we wouldn't be drawing pretty dang well.

[UNT90]

Back on topic. Wag Tag's assumptions are the same crazy assumptions everyone made about RV. It's why the report was what it was. 

But, ya, keep on doing the same thing. What could possibly go wrong? 

[MeanGreenTexan]

Remember, the Super Pit isn't only used for b-ball.    The Super Pit has to be big enough to continue allowing DISD H.S. graduations.   The UNT commencement has already moved to Apogee.     We don't need to shrink the Pit.   We need to put winning B-ball teams out there.     The Thomas/Mack Center at UNLV holds 18K!   UNLV has a rich b-ball history, but their team is middling at best (losing record in MWC play) right now, so the crowds are not as big.   If they were to start winning again, I bet they would fill that place up again.

[Cerebus]

Really don't belive I have to explain this to college educated adults but:

Quote

Tone of voice is very powerful in communication.    You have to be extra careful with written communication because the non verbal nuance built into verbal face to face communication is lost.  

When you directly quote someone, or call them out by name or snide insuation, it will of course lead to an escalating battle of words.  Then the mods have to step in and try to settle some sort of "we he said this but I didn't really mean him and then she said" BS and we are tired of doing it. 

Have consideration for others.  

[GrandGreen]

6 hours ago, Cerebus said:

What about Dickey?

This terrible atmosphere didn't start last year.  Dickey succeeded when our budgets were garbage, when we didn't have a weight room, when they had no meeting space big enough for the entire team to sit together, with no film study areas, with no weight room, with assistant salaries so low that he had to replace some every year, while being paid less than Canales made here.  

All the while under a boss that couldn't stand him because his initial firing of him got over ruled. 

Then when Dickey did complain about the situation further up the chain either the matter got ignored or the complaints were forwarded... right back to the AD.  I told everyone who would listen that I understood The Buick's "us against the world" attitude, and that he wasn't meaning to direct it towards the fans.  

Wrong guy was let go.  

Dickey should have been let go, but it does demonstrate what he was up against.  Dickey was his own worst enemy.  Dodge and Simon had it just as bad or worse and were able to not embarrass themselves or the university.   I always thought Dickey was a good coach in many ways, but frankly he had some major negatives that can't be attributed to an incompetent AD.   

RV should never have been hired in the first place, had few qualifications for the job and I do agree his termination would have been a lot more beneficial to the program than Dickey's termination.   

Edited September 30, 2016 by GrandGreen

[untjim1995]

A few things:

1.) I hope now that this report is out that you all can see why I always said before that this place only cared about costs. It may still be that way, but they are sure showing a different tone right now toward athletics. RV was the BOR's and UNT 17's boy. That relationship was obvious to anyone who looked at it. The BOR told RV stay in budget and don't complain, so that's what he did. RV told the UNT 17 they'd get preferred treatment for donations. Basically, BOR cared about costs only, RV cared about job security only, and the UNT 17 cared about access only. None of this involved winning, above lip service.

2.) UNT90 should be lauded for his ongoing battle and rant against RV and the UNT17. He was proven right, especially with that banner, which got plenty of attention in this report to represent how unhappy the few fans that were still around and tried to care had become with the constant losing, lack of care, and lack or communication from the AD's office. And his point about Hank being an absolute disaster as the next AD is dead-on. If Hank wants to keep broadcasting and still be the face of UNT athletics behind the scenes with the Denton Chamber of commerce and other civic groups, that's fine--but he needs to have NO responsibility in running anything in the athletic department. The same goes for 99% of the AD employees that served under RV. They learned laziness and incompetence and never even tried to do anything different.

3.) I feel like the recruiting part of this isn't bad at all. Kids want to play and earn a degree. Parents want to know the coaches will take care of their kids. High school coaches want to know if you are going to win. All of those are still available, no matter what this report has publically brought out what a lot of us already knew.

4.) Costs are going to have to be increased on the MGC, season tickets, and individual games for football and basketball. Until we get more butts in seats, the revenue has to get raised on the people who will pay for it. If you are paying for any of this now, you have shown that you will pay for it pretty much anyhow. Meanwhile, the new AD staff will have to identify ways to attract people to be interested in our teams that have never really shown to be very interested--and they have to do it without have anything to really hang their hats on from a winning standpoint. That's gonna be tough, no doubt, but if we are to move forward, its a must. And its entirely possible that our culture that caused this mess may not be changed--its going on 50 years of not giving 2 $hits about sports and having the leaders of the university, faculty, and within Denton that have openly opposed athletics in every way possible. Its what Wren and company have to defeat or else this thing has no chance to stay at the highest level of play in college athletics when the final realignment occurs and the Power Leagues and their affiliates pull away from the lower level G5s and FCS for good.

[meanrob]

8 hours ago, Cerebus said:

What about Dickey?

This terrible atmosphere didn't start last year.  Dickey succeeded when our budgets were garbage, when we didn't have a weight room, when they had no meeting space big enough for the entire team to sit together, with no film study areas, with no weight room, with assistant salaries so low that he had to replace some every year, while being paid less than Canales made here.  

All the while under a boss that couldn't stand him because his initial firing of him got over ruled. 

Then when Dickey did complain about the situation further up the chain either the matter got ignored or the complaints were forwarded... right back to the AD.  I told everyone who would listen that I understood The Buick's "us against the world" attitude, and that he wasn't meaning to direct it towards the fans.  

Wrong guy was let go.  

I thought that at the time. The signs were there concerning RV. 

[wardly]

I can't believe that we are even talking about a new basketball arena. Even when J.J. was winning we only averaged 4,000 per game. I suggested  several years ago that we should tarp the top sections off and force fans to move down, similar  to a church blocking off the back rows. Our capitol campaign should be the $25 million needed for a covered practice venue, which probably will not get done in my life time. The problem with the vast majority of posters on this board,including myself, is that we are all mouth and no money. We want the best faculties in the state as long as we personally don't have to pay for them. We blast who ever the President or A.D. is for not bringing is more "whales", when we have done a poor job in getting friends to attend games and join the MGC. Granted, we have had a poor product to sell, but we had fewer members in 2014 after our bowl win than we did in 2013. The bottom line is that if we are not part of the solution we are part of the problem. What is past is past. We need draw a line in the sand, drop the blame game, roll up our sleeves , and do our part to increase attendance at games and membership in the MGC. Lets work together to get the bunts and singles and hope the universities top administration can land more "whales". If you read this message in its entirety then you may skip church Sunday, as you have already been preached to. Go Eagles!

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[GreenMachine]

9 hours ago, untjim1995 said:

A few things:

1.) I hope now that this report is out that you all can see why I always said before that this place only cared about costs. It may still be that way, but they are sure showing a different tone right now toward athletics. RV was the BOR's and UNT 17's boy. That relationship was obvious to anyone who looked at it. The BOR told RV stay in budget and don't complain, so that's what he did. RV told the UNT 17 they'd get preferred treatment for donations. Basically, BOR cared about costs only, RV cared about job security only, and the UNT 17 cared about access only. None of this involved winning, above lip service.

2.) UNT90 should be lauded for his ongoing battle and rant against RV and the UNT17. He was proven right, especially with that banner, which got plenty of attention in this report to represent how unhappy the few fans that were still around and tried to care had become with the constant losing, lack of care, and lack or communication from the AD's office. And his point about Hank being an absolute disaster as the next AD is dead-on. If Hank wants to keep broadcasting and still be the face of UNT athletics behind the scenes with the Denton Chamber of commerce and other civic groups, that's fine--but he needs to have NO responsibility in running anything in the athletic department. The same goes for 99% of the AD employees that served under RV. They learned laziness and incompetence and never even tried to do anything different.

3.) I feel like the recruiting part of this isn't bad at all. Kids want to play and earn a degree. Parents want to know the coaches will take care of their kids. High school coaches want to know if you are going to win. All of those are still available, no matter what this report has publically brought out what a lot of us already knew.

4.) Costs are going to have to be increased on the MGC, season tickets, and individual games for football and basketball. Until we get more butts in seats, the revenue has to get raised on the people who will pay for it. If you are paying for any of this now, you have shown that you will pay for it pretty much anyhow. Meanwhile, the new AD staff will have to identify ways to attract people to be interested in our teams that have never really shown to be very interested--and they have to do it without have anything to really hang their hats on from a winning standpoint. That's gonna be tough, no doubt, but if we are to move forward, its a must. And its entirely possible that our culture that caused this mess may not be changed--its going on 50 years of not giving 2 $hits about sports and having the leaders of the university, faculty, and within Denton that have openly opposed athletics in every way possible. Its what Wren and company have to defeat or else this thing has no chance to stay at the highest level of play in college athletics when the final realignment occurs and the Power Leagues and their affiliates pull away from the lower level G5s and FCS for good.

I absolutely don't understand the whole concept of 17 wealthy individuals wanting personal access to a program with our losing history. I damn sure don't think they were running to their Aggie or Horn buddies bragging about having access to an AD that just got stomped by a FCS team. What were they wanting access to? Hell, if they pay me enough, they can hang out with me every once in awhile. 

[Ben Gooding]

7 hours ago, GreenMachine said:

I absolutely don't understand the whole concept of 17 wealthy individuals wanting personal access to a program with our losing history. I damn sure don't think they were running to their Aggie or Horn buddies bragging about having access to an AD that just got stomped by a FCS team. What were they wanting access to? Hell, if they pay me enough, they can hang out with me every once in awhile. 

Yeah, it makes no sense. But I do know that wealthy folks like the idea of being exclusive and will pay for it. 

[GrandGreen]

7 hours ago, GreenMachine said:

I absolutely don't understand the whole concept of 17 wealthy individuals wanting personal access to a program with our losing history. I damn sure don't think they were running to their Aggie or Horn buddies bragging about having access to an AD that just got stomped by a FCS team. What were they wanting access to? Hell, if they pay me enough, they can hang out with me every once in awhile. 

My guess and that all it is.  Is that the 17 is more myth than fact.  Not the number, although it is questionable, but that all these individuals were big RV backers.   Obviously, a few were; but I know a couple and I can guarantee you that they care for the University a lot more than any person working for it.   The majority of this group will continue to be big supporters of NT and I believe that Baker can greatly expand this level of donors.      

[Ben Gooding]

1 minute ago, GrandGreen said:

My guess and that all it is.  Is that the 17 is more myth than fact.  Not the number, although it is questionable, but that all these individuals were big RV backers.   Obviously, a few were; but I know a couple and I can guarantee you that they care for the University a lot more than any person working for it.   The majority of this group will continue to be big supporters of NT and I believe that Baker can greatly expand this level of donors.      

I think this needs to be a pressing matter. And to be honest, it always needs to be a pressing matter. Athletic departments must always be on the funding trail albeit petty cash from alum, MGC donors, major gifts, specific funding accounts, physical sponsors, paying vendors, ideal advertising, etc. etc. etc. The limits of fundraising is nonexistent. This is an area that can see vast improvement in the matter of months. I'm excited to see what this staff can accomplish in a years time. 

[UNT Mean Green]

6 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

My guess and that all it is.  Is that the 17 is more myth than fact.  Not the number, although it is questionable, but that all these individuals were big RV backers.   Obviously, a few were; but I know a couple and I can guarantee you that they care for the University a lot more than any person working for it.   The majority of this group will continue to be big supporters of NT and I believe that Baker can greatly expand this level of donors.      

Well put. Baker and his team need to expand the donor base, and, with his leadership and successful background, this should happen.

There are some wonderful donors that we are extremely fortunate to have, and should always keep perspective on their generousity which enables a lot of what we do in athletics and through this university. Baker and his team, I fully believe, can grow this base tremendously.

[tmjerm]

I hate to concede the idea of baseball for now but they're totally right about that

[wardly]

In business about 80% of your business usually comes from 20% of your customers. I would assume that the same formula works in fundraising.