DRC: breaking - Consultants report critical of UNT

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF · September 29, 2016

There is a BOR guy whose son plays on my son's football team this year, I'll gauge his reaction re: the report tomorrow at football practice.

SSP · September 29, 2016

3 minutes ago, Cerebus said:

Lack of over site. Plenty of people have complained. However if someone's boss isn't reacting to those complaints then you have to rely on the person you are complaining about to fix it...

Have you ever tried to get face to face time with the president? I can assure you certain people on this board have. About this very issue.

I think Dr. Pohl was starting to ask a lot of questions, but then he got taken down by backing a provost who had made a lot of wrong decisions. Otherwise most other presidents have not paid a lot of attention to athletics, no matter what they have said in public.

The BOR is even harder to talk to, and is more or less always going to refer you to the campus president about a matter like this.

Very unsettling. Wow.

thank you, C. Hope to finally meet you in person this year.

Edited September 29, 2016 by SSP

UNT90 · September 29, 2016

3 minutes ago, SSP said:

Ok... Can someone help me?

I've heard the majority of you complain about the AD for the last several years. I am close friends with multiple North Texas professors and a couple of long time family friends that hold high-level executive positions on campus. I am not alumni but I have four people in my family that have graduated at the University of North Texas and I have two children that could be potential student athletes or even just students at some future juncture.

I see a lot in this report (And I have not read all of it ) that SCREAMS incompetency. HOW do you have this many hands in the fire and it not come up sooner?

And where HAS all of the money gone?????????????

Personal manipulation by the AD of multiple large donors, university presidents, and many members of this board, some still unwilling to accept the cold, hard facts laid out in this report (I'm not talking about comments referenced by fans or former student athletes referenced in the report).

He was a hustler, and hustled an uncaring administration and fan base for a solid 10 years, probably 15 (hustlers always hustle, it's not like he learned it when he got here). He found an easy mark. It's all of our responsibility not to let it happen again.

GrandGreen · September 29, 2016

16 minutes ago, MeanGreenHoops said:

No offense to those who think we need more than 6K for basketball but we just don't. I've been going to games since the 80's and could probably count on one hand the times we needed more than 6K seats. 6K is probably too many.

What would be better and easier for anyone selling the product is a great atmosphere with amenities, and then scarcity of seats.

Sure we had 7K for Tech once, who cares. A lot of those were free customers (students) and the rest paid like 7 bucks once (that game only).

What the discussion about MGC illustrates in this thread is that we need a lot more people committed. Like 3,500 season ticket holders for basketball. That way when the game against Tech happens again those people already have seats in our 5K arena because they bought in to the program and aren't left checking Stub Hub and paying $100 for that one game (i can dream right?)

If/when you have a season ticket waiting list you can worry about a bigger place.

Obviously, you can't make a case for building a big basketball facility. It is too expensive for the few times, the extra seats would be used.

But that is not the question at NT. You are talking about spending from 50 to 100 million dollars to replace a larger still IMO very nice coliseum. Makes no sense, a new facility is not going to significantly increase attendance no matter how great it is (Apogee). Also ignores the fact, that a 10,000 seat venue is by far the biggest indoor facility at NT and serves other purposes.

Indoor practice facility, refurbishment and addition of indoor courts to Tennis center, build a soccer facility fitting for our most successful team. baseball stadium and refurbishment of softball facility, and the expansion of Apogee are just some of the major projects that should be completed before even thinking about a new basketball facility.

It just is not needed and IMO would be foolish to do unless there are unsolvable safety issues at the pit or donations can be raised to fully fund a new facility.

meangreenbob · September 29, 2016

6 hours ago, KRAM1 said:

While, admittedly initially skeptical of the hiring of these consultants due to their obvious ties to a certain donor, I am extremely excited about where this report will help take UNT athletics. Many of UNT fans, either publicly or privately, were well aware of many of the issues pointed out in this report. However, as has been pointed out here already, having a third party put it all in writing in a professional manner is another thing entirely. Yes, the report is short, but does seem to hit a lot of the major issues. What concerns me the very most were the reports regarding the lack support for our student-athletes and the condition of some of the facilities they utilize that are not often seen by the general public and fans.

My response is BRAVO! This report is the ultimate roadmap for Wren Baker and Company. A roadmap that President Smatresk seems more than willing to join Wren Baker in traveling. However, they cannot do it alone. This is going to take "buy in" from the fan base and the inclusion of the students, faculty and staff, alumni community and surrounding local communities to accomplish. Those groups cannot just sit back and "let someone else do it". Simply transferring the stadium debt to the University is not going to provide the necessary funds to get this done.

So, the question seems to be...will those groups step forward to be part of the solution or continue to sit back and let someone else do it? Initial indications are that some are willing...the crowds at the Coaches Radio Show have been building, the crowd at last week's Rice game was excellent (and loud), students seem to be returning to Apogee, the ticket office seems to have made some very positive steps forward, there have been two very high profile AD hires, our soccer program was provided a third full-time coach (tell me, who except a very few even noticed that step forward?), our Cheer and Dance program has been moved to Student Services (better funding possibilities and better utilization of student resources), etc., etc.

While a few of these "moves" have not been overly obvious to the general fan, they are significant in both scale and scope.

So, Bravo to our "consultants", but an even bigger BRAVO to a university administration willing to accept this report and to use it as a roadmap forward. Won't happen overnight, and fans need to be willing to step up and accept some changes, but, if you are a Mean Green fan, you really should be very hopeful and excited for the future for our student-athletes and overall athletic program.

Been waiting 46 years but I believe that this University has finally made an honest, a real commitment to excelling at the highest level in Athletics. I am extremely impressed with each of the new members of the team. They are young, knowledgeable, energetic and hungry. This is the best team I have ever seen assembled at UNT. I am very grateful and thankful to Dr. Smatresk and the Board of Regents for standing strong, for making the commitment and for saying no to mediocrity.

MeanGreenHoops · September 29, 2016

15 minutes ago, Cerebus said:

Lack of over site. Plenty of people have complained. However if someone's boss isn't reacting to those complaints then you have to rely on the person you are complaining about to fix it...

Have you ever tried to get face to face time with the president? I can assure you certain people on this board have. About this very issue.

I think Dr. Pohl was starting to ask a lot of questions, but then he got taken down by backing a provost who had made a lot of wrong decisions. Otherwise most other presidents have not paid a lot of attention to athletics, no matter what they have said in public.

The BOR is even harder to talk to, and is more or less always going to refer you to the campus president about a matter like this.

Curious, do you think that over site and attention is being payed now?

Silent Eagle · September 29, 2016

35 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

My only worry with tabling Baseball is that the talent all around the state of Texas is astounding. Heck, if a team like DBU can be a big-time player in NCAA baseball, UNT certainly can.
I know we can say the same thing about football, on the surface...
but football allows for 85 FULL scholarships per team in D1... not to mention the lower levels. Baseball only allows for 11.7 scholarships per team to be split up between all players.

I really feel like UNT would INSTANTLY field a winning team in baseball with the right coaching hire.

Baseball can wait. Football and basketball have to be the priority. No one really cares about college baseball until cws.

Eagle-96 · September 29, 2016

36 minutes ago, SSP said:

WHY is this NOW a concern after all of these years? WHY... With as many boosters and people on this board with connections with the BOR... HAS THIS NOT BEEN ADDRESSED? I don't get it.

People(many of them on this board) have screamed about the incompetence of the AD until they were blue in the face. It had always fallen on deaf ears until Smatresk came along. The problem is that the old regime in the positions of power at this university simply DIDN'T CARE. Athletics were an afterthought and a somewhat necessary evil. RV was able to let this ship almost sink because he did ONE thing, and that was staying in budget. THAT is the only thing the old guard cared about. STAY IN BUDGET AT ALL COST. RV parlayed that into 15 sweet years of coasting and cashing paychecks. It is evident that he did not care to do even a competent average job because his bosses didn't require him to. As long as RV stayed in budget then they didn't bother to peek behind the curtain to see the shambles(literally) that this department was in. Hiring Smatresk was the catalyst to this renaissance we are seeing now. He gets it and is starting to put the right people in place to right this ship. Now you no why so many on here are so jaded(CougarQueen - jaded means tired, bored, or lacking enthusiasm, typically after having had too much of something).

MeanGreenTexan · September 29, 2016

Just now, Silent Eagle said:

Baseball can wait. Football and basketball have to be the priority. No one really cares about college baseball until cws.

I certainly don't want to rob football or basketball to pay for baseball. If that's the case, then no deal.
But if the funding is there, it would be nice to get that program up and running soon because I think UNT (if the right coach is hired) could get into the CWS playoffs. Have to deal with some established baseball powerhouses in C-USA (Rice, SoMiss, LATech & FLATL all finished last season ranked in the top 30) as well as nearby top 30 programs, TCU & DBU, but it's do-able.

Aldo · September 29, 2016

55 minutes ago, SSP said:

Ok... Can someone help me?

I've heard the majority of you complain about the AD for the last several years. I am close friends with multiple North Texas professors and a couple of long time family friends that hold high-level executive positions on campus. I am not alumni but I have four people in my family that have graduated at the University of North Texas and I have two children that could be potential student athletes or even just students at some future juncture.

I see a lot in this report (And I have not read all of it ) that SCREAMS incompetency. HOW do you have this many hands in the fire and it not come up sooner?

And where HAS all of the money gone?????????????

UNT90 · September 29, 2016

6 minutes ago, Eagle-96 said:

People(many of them on this board) have screamed about the incompetence of the AD until they were blue in the face. It had always fallen on deaf ears until Smatresk came along. The problem is that the old regime in the positions of power at this university simply DIDN'T CARE. Athletics were an afterthought and a somewhat necessary evil. RV was able to let this ship almost sink because he did ONE thing, and that was staying in budget. THAT is the only thing the old guard cared about. STAY IN BUDGET AT ALL COST. RV parlayed that into 15 sweet years of coasting and cashing paychecks. It is evident that he did not care to do even a competent average job because his bosses didn't require him to. As long as RV stayed in budget then they didn't bother to peek behind the curtain to see the shambles(literally) that this department was in. Hiring Smatresk was the catalyst to this renaissance we are seeing now. He gets it and is starting to put the right people in place to right this ship. Now you no why so many on here are so jaded(CougarQueen - jaded means tired, bored, or lacking enthusiasm, typically after having had too much of something).

And the fan base never made enough racket to make the powers that be at UNT care about anything else.

They were happy to take the crumbs thrown to them.

This doesn't happen in a vacuum. There are many many people to fault for allowing this to occur, and the fan base is pretty high on that list.

Edited September 29, 2016 by UNT90

Eagle-96 · September 29, 2016

5 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

I certainly don't want to rob football or basketball to pay for baseball. If that's the case, then no deal.
But if the funding is there, it would be nice to get that program up and running soon because I think UNT (if the right coach is hired) could get into the CWS playoffs. Have to deal with some established baseball powerhouses in C-USA (Rice, SoMiss, LATech & FLATL all finished last season ranked in the top 30) as well as nearby top 30 programs, TCU & DBU, but it's do-able.

I agree that we could probably be competitive in baseball in relatively short order but it is evident that we have A LOT of money that needs to be dedicated elsewhere first. Wren is drinking from a fire-hose right now

6 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

And the fan base never made enough racket to make the powers that be at UNT care about anything else.

They were happy to take the crumbs thrown to them.

This doesn't happen in a vacuum. There are many many people to fault for allowing this to occur, and the fan base is pretty high on that list.

There is no doubt that there is PLENTY of blame to go around but the lions share of blame lies squarely at the feet of RV(and his staff). I guess I am still in shock that it is THIS bad.

Mad Hatter · September 29, 2016

You think this is one of the reasons Wren hired a CFO for Athletics??

UNT90 · September 29, 2016

12 minutes ago, Eagle-96 said:

I agree that we could probably be competitive in baseball in relatively short order but it is evident that we have A LOT of money that needs to be dedicated elsewhere first. Wren is drinking from a fire-hose right now

There is no doubt that there is PLENTY of blame to go around but the lions share of blame lies squarely at the feet of RV(and his staff). I guess I am still in shock that it is THIS bad.

RV was simply a hustler. If everyone doesn't change the way they approach this program, another hustler could easily take over where RV left off.

Demand results. Don't worship people for what you think they may do. Don't take what they say at face value. Verify.

Cerebus · September 29, 2016

54 minutes ago, MeanGreenHoops said:

Curious, do you think that over site and attention is being payed now?

It's early, but it's promising. Real question is: how long will the President stay focused on Athletics? It's obvious that we had fallen into a total crater. Smatresk was smart enough to know he couldn't leave it at that level. Will he continue to care when we improve to a mid-level CUSA program? How about a top level CUSA program? Will he and the rest of the administration be content with that or will they (like UH did several years ago) decide to shoot for the moon?

4 minutes ago, Mad Hatter said:

You think this is one of the reasons Wren hired a CFO for Athletics??

Undoubtedly.

Silent Eagle · September 29, 2016

31 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

I certainly don't want to rob football or basketball to pay for baseball. If that's the case, then no deal.
But if the funding is there, it would be nice to get that program up and running soon because I think UNT (if the right coach is hired) could get into the CWS playoffs. Have to deal with some established baseball powerhouses in C-USA (Rice, SoMiss, LATech & FLATL all finished last season ranked in the top 30) as well as nearby top 30 programs, TCU & DBU, but it's do-able.

I agree with the sentiment, however, I think it's emphatically clear that to this point, the funding is not there.

Tyler Maryak · September 29, 2016

Skipped here from Page 4 to say that GoMeanGreen.com views is the REAL winner of this report being released. #165CommentsAndCounting

Silent Eagle · September 29, 2016

6 minutes ago, Cerebus said:

It's early, but it's promising. Real question is: how long will the President stay focused on Athletics? It's obvious that we had fallen into a total crater. Smatresk was smart enough to know he couldn't leave it at that level. Will he continue to care when we improve to a mid-level CUSA program? How about a top level CUSA program? Will he and the rest of the administration be content with that or will they (like UH did several years ago) decide to shoot for the moon?

Undoubtedly.

I think once they see copious amounts of money flowing in from athletic related sources, the administration will have absolutely no reason to not go all in.

VideoEagle · September 29, 2016

12 minutes ago, Mad Hatter said:

You think this is one of the reasons Wren hired a CFO for Athletics??

I think it is THE reason.

MeanGreenTexan · September 29, 2016

3 minutes ago, Cerebus said:

It's early, but it's promising. Real question is: how long will the President stay focused on Athletics? It's obvious that we had fallen into a total crater. Smatresk was smart enough to know he couldn't leave it at that level. Will he continue to care when we improve to a mid-level CUSA program? How about a top level CUSA program? Will he and the rest of the administration be content with that or will they (like UH did several years ago) decide to shoot for the moon?

I think it's a raging fire right now and deservingly getting a ton of attention right now. Hopefully, when things improve to a "comfortable" level, they can take the foot off the gas (while keeping the ship moving forward), and prioritize it where it needs to be.
His job 1 is to get our University up to Tier1 status in TX though. Athletics can help drive up endowment and student admittance levels, no doubt, but he has a lot of other things on his plate around academics/research that are just as pressing as anything athletics-related.

GrandGreen · September 29, 2016

10 minutes ago, Eagle-96 said:

People(many of them on this board) have screamed about the incompetence of the AD until they were blue in the face. It had always fallen on deaf ears until Smatresk came along. The problem is that the old regime in the positions of power at this university simply DIDN'T CARE. Athletics were an afterthought and a somewhat necessary evil. RV was able to let this ship almost sink because he did ONE thing, and that was staying in budget. THAT is the only thing the old guard cared about. STAY IN BUDGET AT ALL COST. RV parlayed that into 15 sweet years of coasting and cashing paychecks. It is evident that he did not care to do even a competent average job because his bosses didn't require him to. As long as RV stayed in budget then they didn't bother to peek behind the curtain to see the shambles(literally) that this department was in. Hiring Smatresk was the catalyst to this renaissance we are seeing now. He gets it and is starting to put the right people in place to right this ship. Now you no why so many on here are so jaded(CougarQueen - jaded means tired, bored, or lacking enthusiasm, typically after having had too much of something).

Not sure you can stay in budget if you don't have one. In a non-profit, revenue equal expenditures over a period of time; are it is over. In college athletics most schools lose tons of money to be replaced usually by something labeled institutional transfers. These are funds from the university coffers to offset the loses in athletics. The amount of necessary transfers has risen dramatically even after the advent of the dedicated student athletic fee. Obviously, the numbers involved for revenues, expenditures and transfers are budgeted at some level, but after this report I wonder how much scrutiny this actually got. It is true, that RV never spend more than the school could cover; but I doubt if anyone knowledgeable could have been happy from a financial view.

There is a lot that happened that RV was not equipped to deal with. Huge contract buyout of McCarney, recently passed cost of payments to athletes, dwindling attendance and long term stadium debt all were substantial additional costs. It is almost like he got caught at the end of a Ponzi scheme. He was just trying to ride this as far as he could, but he had to know the end was near.

TIgreen01 · September 29, 2016

2 things that I bought hook line and sinker.

1 - Our budget numbers that we were reporting were a sham. It appeared that we had stepped up to the table (finally) when you looked at any national reports comparing athletic budgets. Ours was trumped up because of the way we structured the debt on the stadium. I mean, I guess I should have thought of that. Financials are always a bunch of BS trickery anyway.

2 - Holy crap on the scheduling stuff. Not calling P5 schools back that wanted home and homes?! This report feels like one side of the story. I sure hope there is a good reason for this. Was the home and home denied b/c they wanted to play in Dallas/Arlington? We need more information here.

NorthTexan95 · September 29, 2016

17 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

Demand results.

One way this can be accomplished is by having a yearly audit by an outside organization. Obviously there has been no auditing in the past but it would help ensure that the financial side is kept in check.

Army of Dad · September 29, 2016

2 minutes ago, TIgreen01 said:

2 - Holy crap on the scheduling stuff. Not calling P5 schools back that wanted home and homes?! This report feels like one side of the story. I sure hope there is a good reason for this. Was the home and home denied b/c they wanted to play in Dallas/Arlington? We need more information here.

If they wouldn't return phone calls for OOC scheduling it makes you wonder if they even tried to have any input with conference scheduling...