OU President Now Against Expansion

[Cerebus]

News9 OK: David Boren Now Against Big 12 Expansion

Quote

Norman - Big 12 expansion may be dead – for the time being – after multiple reports that Oklahoma president David Boren has changed his mind after leading the expansion charge for the past 18 months.

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Are Texas and Oklahoma already exploring their options? Campus Rush’s Pete Thamelsuggests there are “rumblings throughout the league as to whether Boren is the right public face considering he could be in the position of shopping Oklahoma around to other leagues in the near future.

 

[Harry]

Big 12 laughing at the world.  All that exposure attention. 17+ schools bowing down to the Big 12 altar for months.  

Feel bad for Houston.

The truth is, the small percentage increase of landing a playoff spot through adding two teams does not override the recruiting hit in the minds of the lessor Big 12 schools.  

Simply put --They are scared of Houston.

[oldguystudent]

5 minutes ago, Harry said:

Feel bad for Houston.

But not for SMU!  Bwahahahaha!!!!

6 minutes ago, Harry said:

Simply put --They are scared of Houston.

But not of SMU!  Bwahahahahahaha!!!!

[GMG_Dallas]

4 minutes ago, Harry said:

Big 12 laughing at the world.  All that exposure attention. 17+ schools bowing down to the Big 12 altar for months.  

Feel bad for Houston.

The truth is, the small percentage increase of landing a playoff spot through adding two teams does not override the recruiting hit in the minds of the lessor Big 12 schools.  

Simply put --They are scared of Houston.

I agree with you that they are scared but I don't understand the logic. As of right now, the BIG 12 will not have a team in the playoffs until a BIG 12 team goes undefeated and/or beats solid OOC opponents the same year (unless another P5 conference has a terrible year as well). ESPN recently did a ranking of P5 conferences and they did not include the BIG 12 because everybody agreed they were the weakest link. While adding Houston will make recruiting even tougher and Houston will turn into a real powerhouse, it's not like Kansas, Kansas State, Texas Tech, and most of the other BIG 12 teams have a chance at the college football playoffs anyways unless they have an undefeated season. The BIG 12 is pretty poorly perceived right now. Adding Houston would bring more legitimacy to the conference. It would actually help them as a whole.

Maybe I'm completely off. Regardless, I just don't get it...

[Withers940]

The Big 12 was horrified at the possibililty of loosing Houston as a Recruiting hotbed to U of H. OU are a bunch of

[Mean Green 93-98]

2 minutes ago, Withers940 said:

The Big 12 was horrified at the possibililty of loosing Houston as a Recruiting hotbed to U of H. OU are a bunch of

Cool cats?

[Withers940]

Just now, Mean Green 93-98 said:

Cool cats?

You can go one of two ways with it. You could also think Cats Pajamas but you know that wasn't what I was going for.

[Army of Dad]

14 minutes ago, GMG_Dallas said:

I agree with you that they are scared but I don't understand the logic. As of right now, the BIG 12 will not have a team in the playoffs until a BIG 12 team goes undefeated and/or beats solid OOC opponents the same year (unless another P5 conference has a terrible year as well). ESPN recently did a ranking of P5 conferences and they did not include the BIG 12 because everybody agreed they were the weakest link. While adding Houston will make recruiting even tougher and Houston will turn into a real powerhouse, it's not like Kansas, Kansas State, Texas Tech, and most of the other BIG 12 teams have a chance at the college football playoffs anyways unless they have an undefeated season. The BIG 12 is pretty poorly perceived right now. Adding Houston would bring more legitimacy to the conference. It would actually help them as a whole.

Maybe I'm completely off. Regardless, I just don't get it...

How does adding any G5 school help improve perception of a P5 conference?

[GMG_Dallas]

20 minutes ago, Army of Dad said:

How does adding any G5 school help improve perception of a P5 conference?

Because this G5 school is ranked 6th in the nation, easily handled Florida State last year, beat Lousiville last year, blanked Vanderbilt 34-0 last year, beat OU this year, has a decent chance of beating Louisville this year too. If they go undefeated, Houston will be in the playoffs therefore, this G5 school and the AAC conference will have had the exact same amount of BIG 12 playoff representatives since the beginning of this system: 1.

I'm assuming your comment is a joke.

[Wag Tag]

1 hour ago, Cerebus said:

News9 OK: David Boren Now Against Big 12 Expansion

 

Houston to ACC?? 

[Cougar King]

The Big 12 would cut off its nose to spite its face. Nothing would surprise me either way. There's a reason why I've bought into the hype. 

[Army of Dad]

1 hour ago, GMG_Dallas said:

Because this G5 school is ranked 6th in the nation, easily handled Florida State last year, beat Lousiville last year, blanked Vanderbilt 34-0 last year, beat OU this year, has a decent chance of beating Louisville this year too. If they go undefeated, Houston will be in the playoffs therefore, this G5 school and the AAC conference will have had the exact same amount of BIG 12 playoff representatives since the beginning of this system: 1.

I'm assuming your comment is a joke.

Success like that can be fleeting, ask Northern Illinois.

The main reason why the (not so) Big 12 hasn't had more playoff reps is that tu and Oklahoma have been down. Baylor got hosed (in part by their conference) and TCU also had a decent chance that year to claim a spot. If either of the red river rivalry teams had been in BU or TCU's position they probably get into the playoff.

If Houston can maintain a high level for another year or so (and their recent recruiting suggests they may) in combination with a continued increase in support they could be a good addition, but they could fall off considerably as well.

 

[Cr1028]

28 minutes ago, Army of Dad said:

How does adding any G5 school help improve perception of a P5 conference?

 

4 minutes ago, GMG_Dallas said:

Because this G5 school is ranked 6th in the nation, easily handled Florida State last year, beat Lousiville last year, blanked Vanderbilt 34-0 last year, beat OU this year, has a decent chance of beating Louisville this year too. If they go undefeated, Houston will be in the playoffs therefore, this G5 school and the AAC conference will have had the exact same amount of BIG 12 playoff representatives since the beginning of this system: 1.

I'm assuming your comment is a joke.

I don't recall TCU helping Big12 perception all that much. All they did was make the "perceived" good teams look worse along with a resurgent Baylor program under Briles. 

[TIgreen01]

Houston was in the SWC for years with access to the top level talent and had mixed results with records and fan support.  I don't think the presidents at these Big 12 schools have forgotten that.  TCU had 10 solid years of dominating the G5 and challenging for BCS spots , culminating in that Rose Bowl game.  Houston hasn't proven that they can sustain the success the way that TCU did.

And all schools north of the Red River not named OU are afraid of recruiting becoming tougher than it already is.  I just don't think that difficult recruiting is the central issue. It's adding a school that will make them split the pie, probably take a few kids that might go elsewhere, AND hasn't really yet proven that they can sustain this level of success.  If a few years down the road they are still winning 10 games a year and making New Year's bowls they'll be impossible for the Big 12 to keep out because they'd almost guarantee to be bringing EXTRA income with them.

Edited September 28, 2016 by TIgreen01

[TreeFiddy]

1 hour ago, Army of Dad said:

How does adding any G5 school help improve perception of a P5 conference?

Exactly.  

It is hard to appreciate the level of arrogance of the schools in 'the club', disregarding the fact that many of them are no more deserving.

I was surprised when there was such a ground swell of support for expansion, because I have maintained all along that the top level will get smaller and more exclusive before it gets larger.  The top schools are demanding more money from the networks and the networks are saying fine, but you have to cut out the dead weight.  Elevating teams add more dead weight not less.  

It should be fun to watch.

 

[Cerebus]

1 hour ago, Cougar King said:

The Big 12 would cut off its nose to spite its face. Nothing would surprise me either way. There's a reason why I've bought into the hype. 

Quaaludes  are back?  

[GMG_Dallas]

47 minutes ago, Army of Dad said:

Success like that can be fleeting, ask Northern Illinois.

The main reason why the (not so) Big 12 hasn't had more playoff reps is that tu and Oklahoma have been down. Baylor got hosed (in part by their conference) and TCU also had a decent chance that year to claim a spot. If either of the red river rivalry teams had been in BU or TCU's position they probably get into the playoff.

If Houston can maintain a high level for another year or so (and their recent recruiting suggests they may) in combination with a continued increase in support they could be a good addition, but they could fall off considerably as well.

 

I don't feel like arguing this any further after this post. I feel like those responding against UH having value are acting out of bias and not looking at the facts.

Regarding northern Illinois, they never had a recruiting class during their run like Houston has had recently.

Regarding prolonged success, since 2006, Houston has had:

- four 10+ win seasons, two of which were 13 win seasons

- four 8 win seasons

- two losing seasons, both of which were 5-7 years.

That's the worst they could get. 5-7. While putting two coaches in the big 12, one now in the SEC.

Not as good as TCU had during their stretch but certainly a good stretch. And with their recruiting classes, they Will experience continued success.

[DT 90]

32 minutes ago, TIgreen01 said:

Houston was in the SWC for years with access to the top level talent and had mixed results with records and fan support.  I don't think the presidents at these Big 12 schools have forgotten that.  TCU had 10 solid years of dominating the G5 and challenging for BCS spots , culminating in that Rose Bowl game.  Houston hasn't proven that they can sustain the success the way that TCU did.

And all schools north of the Red River not named OU are afraid of recruiting becoming tougher than it already is.  I just don't think that difficult recruiting is the central issue. It's adding a school that will make them split the pie, probably take a few kids that might go elsewhere, AND hasn't really yet proven that they can sustain this level of success.  If a few years down the road they are still winning 10 games a year and making New Year's bowls they'll be impossible for the Big 12 to keep out because they'd almost guarantee to be bringing EXTRA income with them.

Houston pretty much dominated the SWC in the late 70's before SMU and A&M went on their runs.

[MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF]

Texas and Oklahoma aren't afraid of anyone.  They are the only reason the Big 12 still exists.  Without them, the conference is G5 material.

The only thing keeping them tethered to the Big 12 now is the grant of rights they signed a few years back.  Once that expires, they are gone.

So, they are naturally asking themselves, why would we split the pie any further with schools we'll be leaving behind as soon as we can?

Expansion only makes sense for schools in the Big 12 not named Oklahoma and Texas. 

Big 12 = Former Big East.  It's got no pull nationally, and is hanging on by a thread.  Big East imploded because, outside of Miami and Virginia Tech, there was no football power.  Those two left after 2004, then Boston College after 2005, and then - cue Howard Schnellenberger - the only variable remaining in its collapse was time.

Big 12 is the same.  It's got a ton of teams that have no national draw for football.  Kansas has basketball draw, and that's all outside of Texas and Oklahoma football.

All three can - and, someday, will - make more money elsewhere. 

The only other school that might get a whiff - a life line thrown to them - is Oklahoma State.  Big brother Oklahoma might lend them a hand due to intrastate politics - as well as T. Boone's money...if he can live that much longer; he's 88 now. 

If Texas be separated from Texas A&M, and have it pass political muster, then they can surely leave behind the likes of Texas Tech, Baylor, and TCU with no problem.  Oklahoma said goodbye to longtime rivals Nebraska, Nebraska said goodbye to Colorado and Oklahoma, and Kansas said goodbye to Missouri - and all survived.    

Everyone else in what is then left of the "Big 12" sinks into G5, which will then become G6...yes, Houston fans, you will again be shut out out the Haves when the Haves versus Have Nots pushes come to shove.

Edited September 28, 2016 by MeanGreenMailbox

[GrandGreen]

Houston has certainly poured the money into their program.  The question is however, what happens if their coach is swayed away by the LSU's or other perennial P5 power.   Is the current success due to a coach or program?  I have no doubt they will pay for a top candidate if Herman leaves, but it is still not a sure thing that they will pick the right one.   The odds are they are not going find another Herman or Sumlin.   

For all their bravado, UH is a lot like NT.   They don't have a built in cadre of fans that are going to support a mediocre or worse program.   

Having said that, UH has to be envied for what they have done and I believe they illustrate what NT can achieve.  They have backers that have heavily invested in their program and have done very well when compared to other G5's in finding the right football coaches.   

[Mean Green 93-98]

26 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

The odds are they are not going find another Herman or Sumlin.    

That was said after Briles.  That was said after Sumlin.  One of these times, they're due for a miss,* but so far they keep hitting home runs with their coaching hires.

* I forgot about Levine.  That was pretty much a miss, but not a program-destroying miss.

Edited September 28, 2016 by Mean Green 93-98

[GMG_Dallas]

24 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

The odds are they are not going find another Herman or Sumlin.   

 

5 minutes ago, Mean Green 93-98 said:

That was said after Briles.  That was said after Sumlin.  One of these times, they're due for a miss, but so far they keep hitting home runs with their coaching hires.

I was about to comment the same thing. They have a good PROGRAM. Tony Levine finished 8-5 twice in three years and was let go after the third year despite them winning their bowl game against Pitt. They have high expectations and even when they were down, there were still good (recently).

[Eastwood Eagle]

8 minutes ago, Mean Green 93-98 said:

That was said after Briles.  That was said after Sumlin.  One of these times, they're due for a miss, but so far they keep hitting home runs with their coaching hires.

Yeah, his name was Levine and UH cut ties with him rather quickly and got Herman.

[Mean Green 93-98]

12 minutes ago, Eastwood Eagle said:

Yeah, his name was Levine and UH cut ties with him rather quickly and got Herman.

Check out the edit I made shortly before you posted.

[Green Mean]

By no means this is a knock against Houston but I just don't see how and why any of the Big 12 candidates truly increases the overall perception and benefit of the conference including Houston.  They certainly don't need the market because they already have that plus it's yet another school in Texas and I think that's probably a bad thing.  The point of these big/great super conferences is expanding territory of more and different markets.  Now if another P5 conference came to Houston because they wanted a presence and market in Texas then I see that as a more viable scenario but I just don't see how Cincy, Houston, Memphis and even BYU makes much of a difference in elevating the conference.  It's only a matter of time before Texas will completely turn that ship around and OU is still strong as we see it.  Once they both get to where they were 5-10 years at the same time in addition with TCU, Baylor, and OSU still threatening then I think the conference will be fine and they will have plenty of inclusion in the playoff picture especially with TX and OU.