DRC Monday column: So, Wren. Can you make the schedule less gut-wrenching?

[GMG24]

10 hours ago, THOR said:

Can't happen with season tickets and students, we would have more than 5,850...maybe not much more, but hopefully at least half as much. Get osu or any school to have to buy season tickets to get in the game, great...more money, but any school w I uld not have 25000 at our stadium

we sold over 20,000 for SMU game, think we'd have a chance of selling a majority of our tickets.  Where we would have the issue is a UNT fan buying a 12 dollar ticket then realizing a week before the game they could sell it for 100 to a crazy buckeye fan.  

[MeanGreenTexan]

10 minutes ago, Army of Dad said:

What conference are you in with a OOC and a 4 home game schedule?

Conference home slate = 4 home games.   OOC = do whatever needs to be done to get Ohio State to Apogee.    This is all pie-in-the-sky though, isn't it?

7 minutes ago, oldguystudent said:

[TreeFiddy]

19 minutes ago, GMG24 said:

we sold over 20,000 for SMU game, think we'd have a chance of selling a majority of our tickets.  Where we would have the issue is a UNT fan buying a 12 dollar ticket then realizing a week before the game they could sell it for 100 to a crazy buckeye fan.  

I would imagine our AD would do like the smoo AD did for A&M. general admission tickets would be $100 each. 

And season ticket cost would double, or more. 

Bring it on. 

[MeanGreenHoops]

How did this topic go from what is the best way to schedule to, how can we destroy our schedule to get Ohio State here. Geez.

On topic, I don't like playing Florida, Texas, Oklahoma, Alabama because no matter what they will have NFL players all along their fronts and we cannot match that. Maybe someday. But playing a road game against a P5 is ok otherwise. I actually didn't mid the Iowa game. That's a game we should look to play.

But, we should also look to get some of those teams to come here as well. It would increase season ticket sales if you had say Colorado on the schedule. And season ticket sales are the best kind of revenue.

FCS is ok since wins are good. But agree with others that 6 games at home is minimum requirement for doing your job as ad.

[VideoEagle]

1 hour ago, TreeFiddy said:

I would imagine our AD would do like the smoo AD did for A&M. general admission tickets would be $100 each. 

And season ticket cost would double, or more. 

Bring it on. 

That's not as crazy as some might think. I know OU fans have been known to buy season tickets at opponents games just so they can see OU live. That was a while back - over a decade - and I think they've expanded their stadium since. But we have had higher since game tickets for certain games - I think that was the case for Baylor a few years back. 

I'm not sure of the practicalities of doubling the season tickets just for visiting fans. No sure how you can charge our fans one price and their fans another. We might do like the airlines where season tickets sold after a certain date and after a certain availability level is reached go up. 

 

But my biggest take away from the article is clearly shown by the mixed options in this thread. Anything Baker does is going to the schedule is going to make some group of fans and/or students mad. 

 

Edited September 20, 2016 by VideoEagle

[MeanGreenTexan]

1 hour ago, MeanGreenHoops said:

How did this topic go from what is the best way to schedule to, how can we destroy our schedule to get Ohio State here. Geez.

...

Chill.
It's a purely hypothetical, tangential conversation.   The thread is not derailed and no one is mad.

Obviously UNT is not getting Ohio State to come to Apogee anytime soon.    If the opportunity were to arise though, where would you draw the line to get them here?  Give up a 5-home game schedule to bring them in?   Give in to probable demands of a "neutral site" game at AT&T?   This is the kind of discussion this type of thread should generate.
Obviously a 4-game home schedule is not feasible...  hyperbole.

[wardly]

In the way back machine programs used to schedule 3 OOC games based upon 1 you should win,1 you might win, and 1 the stars must align in order to you to win. In my perfect world I would annually schedule 1 home game against Southland Conference opponent who might bring a few fans,1 home and home against Gang of 5 opponent, [the Belt and MAC seem to be working together] and a 2 for 1 "body bag " game, and be willing to play in Jerry World " if necessary" to accomplish this.

[MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF]

Stupid.  People will complain about the schedule no matter what we do while we are losing.  We've had every type of schedule a non-Bowl Alliance/non-BCS/G5 could have.  No matter the coach or conference, or how many or few major powers/higher conferences here or there, we haven't won many of them. 

Yet, people still complain. 

-The vast majority of P5s schedule FCS schools for home games.
-The majority of "mid-major" G5s go on the road to P5 schools, usually without a home and home agreement from the larger/traditional power schools, to collect a paycheck.
-We've had Non-Top 25 schools OOC at Apogee, Houston and Indiana, and still people weren't happy.
-People wanted an SMU series.  We have it, and they aren't happy.
-People wanted an Army series, We have it, and they aren't happy.
-During the Darrell Dickey era, we played what are now called "P5s" multiple times per season, on the road.  Those season were cut down for most seasons to one "P5" roadie for Dodge, McCarney, and now Littrell:

OOC Schedules, post-Wandering I-AA Period 
1995 - Independent.  Away games versus then-Bowl Alliance schools - Missouri, Oklahoma, LSU, Alabama

1996 - Big West.  Away games versus then-Bowl Alliance schools - Arizona State, Texas A&M; had a home game with I-AA Illinois State, and a roadie at non-Bowl Alliance Northern Illinois; then Bowl Alliance Vandy came to Denton.

1997 - Big West.  Away games versus then-Bowl Alliance schools - Vandy, Oregon State, Texas Tech.  had a home game with I-AA Indiana State;  Then-Bowl Alliance Texas A&M played us in Irving.  Roadies at non-Bowl Alliance Army.

1998 - Big West.  Away games with then-BCS schools - Arizona State, Oklahoma, Texas A&M, Kansas.  BCS Texas Tech played us in Irving.  Non-BCS Houston played here.

1999 - Big West.  Away games with then-BCS schools - LSU, Texas Tech, Baylor.  Roadie with Non-BCS TCU.  Non-BCS UNLV played in Denton.

2000 - Big West.  Away games with then-BCS schools - Texas Tech, Kansas State.  BCS Baylor in Denton.  Division II Samford in Denton.  Roadies at Non-BCS UNLV and Lousiana-Lafayette.

2001 - Sun Belt. Away game with then-BCS school Oklahoma.  Non-BCS TCU in Denton.  BCS Texas Tech in Irving.  Roadies at Non-BCS South Florida and Troy State.

2002 - Sun Belt.  Away games with then-BCS schools - Texas, Alabama, Arizona.  I-AA Nicholls State in Denton.  Non-BCS South Florida in Denton.  Roadie at Non-BCS TCU.

2003 - Sun Belt.  Away games with then-BCS schools - Oklahoma and Arkansas (in Little Rock).  Then-BCS Baylor in Denton.  Non-BCS Troy in Denton.  Roadie at Non-BCS Air Force.

2004 - Sun Belt.  Away games with then-BCS schools - Texas, Colorado, Baylor.  No OOC home games.

2005 - Sun Belt.  Away games with then-BCS schools - Kansas State and LSU.  Non-BCS Tulsa at home.  Roadie with Non-BCS Louisiana Tech.

2006 - Sun Belt.  Away game with then-BCS Texas.  Non-BCS SMU and Louisiana Tech in Denton.  Roadies at Non-BCS Tulsa and Akron.

2007 - Sun Belt.  Away games with then-BCS Oklahoma and Arkansas.  Non-BCS Navy and Western Kentucky at Denton.  Roadie with Non-BCS SMU.

2008 - Sun Belt.  Away games with then-BCS Kansas State and LSU.  Non-BCS Tulsa in Denton.  Roadie at Non-BCS Rice.

2009 - Sun Belt.  Away game with then-BCS Alabama.  Non-BCS Ohio and Army at home.  Roadie with Non-BCS Ball State.

2010 - Sun Belt.  Away game with then-BCS Clemson.  BCS Kansas State in Denton.  Non-BCS Rice at home.  Roadie with Non-BCS Army.

2011 - Sun Belt.  Away game with then-BCS Alabama.  BCS Indiana in Denton.  Non-BCS Houston in Denton.  Roadie with Non-BCS Tulsa

2012 - Sun Belt.  Away games with then-BCS LSU and Kansas State.  FCS Texas Southern in Denton.  Roadie at Non-BCS Houston.

2013 - C-USA.  Away game with then-BCS Georgia.  Non-BCS Idaho and Ball State in Denton.  Roadie at Non-BCS Ohio.

2014 - C-USA.  Away games with P5s Texas and Indiana.  G5 SMU in Denton.  FCS Nicholls State in Denton.

2015 - C-USA.  Away games with P5s Iowa and Tennessee.  FCS Portland State in Denton.  Roadie with G5 SMU.

2016 - C-USA.  Away game with P5 Florida.  G5 SMU in Denton.  FCS Bethune-Cookman in Denton.  Roadie with G5 Army.

It doesn't matter what the OOC schedule has been under any coach or in any conference; the results have been the same:  18 of those 22 seasons have been losing seasons (yes, I'm already calling 2016 a losing season inasmuch as the coach threw in the towel before the second game.)

Edited September 21, 2016 by MeanGreenMailbox

[GrandGreen]

Wren has an easy task.  Just put NT90 in charge of scheduling.  He will have P5 teams paying NT to play in Apogee.

On a slightly more serious note, if NT had the resources of a UT, the AD still couldn't satisfy a lot of fans.   Add NT's relatively small stadium, poor current attendance levels, and financial situation; and scheduling become a great challenge for any AD.   

 

[GMG_Dallas]

33 minutes ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

 

Going to side with you here about people never being happy.

 

I looked at every 2016 schedule for C-USA schools this year and every school but 3 (THREE) is playing 2 P5s this year. Yes, a few of them are playing a P5 at home, but at the end of the day (ha! I said it), I would rather us get 6+ wins and be bowl eligible than play a P5 at home and a P5 away for possibly 2 losses on the year. 

This year's C-USA teams playing 2 P5s:

Rice: home vs Baylor, road vs Stanford

Western Kentucky: road vs Alabama, home vs Vanderbilt

Middle Tennessee: road vs Vanderbilt, road vs Missouri

Marshall: home vs Louisville, road vs Pitt (consecutive weeks)

FAU: away vs Miami, away vs Kansas State (consecutive weeks and already lost both)

FIU: home vs Indiana, home vs Maryland (consecutive weeks to start off the year, lost both)

Southern Mississippi: road vs Kentucky, road vs LSU (best team in our conference pulled off a wild come from behind win against Kentucky)

Louisiana Tech: road vs Arkansas, road vs Texas Tech

UTSA: home vs Arizona State, road vs Texas A&M

Out of all of those teams, probably only one team will come out .500 in those games and it's Southern Mississippi who beat Kentucky.

The other three C-USA teams are us (played Florida), Charlotte who played Louisville, and UTEP who played Texas. Every other team in our conference just chalked up 2 losses before the season started and only Southern Miss will be able to switch that to 1-1 which means every other team just made it that much more difficult to make a bowl game.

\We want to play in a conference that has a better perception. Here's an idea: limit yourself to one body bag game regardless of where it's played and counter that with one winnable (doesn't have to be against FCS schools) game. If more of our teams became bowl eligible every year, we would be viewed as a better conference even if we weren't which means:

- better and/or more bowl invites moving forward (the NCAA struggled to find 6-6 teams for bowl games last year)

- better TV contracts because you don't have 50% of your conference barely scratching the .500 surface every year

- better exposure and the appearance of better programs

Let's not worry so much about getting a P5 school at home once in a blue moon because we will probably pay more over the entirety of the deal. Kind of like, we won the battle but they won the war. Let's schedule respectable or locally known G5s at home like SMU and Army and try to schedule road games against lower tier P5s on the road.

Thanks.

Edited September 20, 2016 by GMG_Dallas

[Army of Dad]

1 minute ago, GMG_Dallas said:

Going to side with you here about people never being happy.

 

I looked at every 2016 schedule for C-USA schools this year and every school but 3 (THREE) is playing 2 P5s this year. Yes, a few of them are playing a P5 at home, but at the end of the day (ha! I said it), I would rather us get 6+ wins and be bowl eligible than play a P5 at home and a P5 away for possibly 2 losses on the year. 

This year's C-USA teams playing 2 P5s:

Rice: home vs Baylor, road vs Stanford

Western Kentucky: road vs Alabama, home vs Vanderbilt

Middle Tennessee: road vs Vanderbilt, road vs Missouri

Marshall: home vs Louisville, road vs Pitt (consecutive weeks)

FAU: away vs Miami, away vs Kansas State (consecutive weeks and already lost both)

FIU: home vs Indiana, home vs Maryland (consecutive weeks to start off the year, lost both)

Southern Mississippi: road vs Kentucky, road vs LSU (best team in our conference pulled off a wild come from behind win against Kentucky)

Louisiana Tech: road vs Arkansas, road vs Texas Tech

UTSA: home vs UTSA, road vs Texas A&M

Out of all of those teams, only one team will probably come out .500 in those games and it's Southern Mississippi who beat Kentucky.

The other three C-USA teams are us (played Florida), Charlotte who played Louisville, and UTEP who played Texas. Every other team in our conference just chalked up 2 losses before the season started and only Southern Miss will be able to switch that to 1-1 which means every other team just made it that much more difficult to make a bowl game.

\We want to play in a conference that has a better perception. Here's an idea: limit yourself to one body bag game regardless of where it's played and counter that with one winnable (doesn't have to be against FCS schools) game. If more of our teams became bowl eligible every year, we would be viewed as a better conference even if we weren't which means:

- better and/or more bowl invites moving forward (the NCAA struggled to find 6-6 teams for bowl games last year)

- better TV contracts because you don't have 50% of your conference barely scratching the .500 surface every year

- better exposure and the appearance of better programs

Let's not worry so much about getting a P5 school at home once in a blue moon because we will probably pay more over the entirety of the deal. Kind of like, we won the battle but they won the war. Let's schedule respectable or locally known G5s at home like SMU and Army and try to schedule road games against lower tier P5s on the road.

Thanks.

Might wanna check that UTSA opponent...

[GMG_Dallas]

2 minutes ago, Army of Dad said:

Might wanna check that UTSA opponent...

Thanks Arizona State. Corrected. I'm sorry!

[oldguystudent]

2 hours ago, VideoEagle said:

 But we have had higher since game tickets for certain games - I think that was the case for Baylor a few years back. 

 

I am nearly certain that the very first football ticket I ever bought, a general admission ticket for my daughter for the Tulsa game in 2008, was sold to me at a premium from the ticket office because it was a "premier game."  It sucked too because I was so miserably broke back then that the $25 I paid (after "convenience fees" for walking my ass over to the ticket off) was a whole lot more money than I could comfortably spend at the time.  

[TreeFiddy]

It is a catch 22.  The conference TV contract will not improve until, as a conference, we have more home games with P5/marketable teams.  The alternative is to have our conference teams become more valuable/marketable.

[GMG_Dallas]

12 minutes ago, TreeFiddy said:

It is a catch 22.  The conference TV contract will not improve until, as a conference, we have more home games with P5/marketable teams.  The alternative is to have our conference teams become more valuable/marketable.

If our conference teams become more valuable/marketable, do you think it would be easier to have more home games with P5/marketable teams OR do you think it's best to do whatever it takes to schedule games at home against P5/marketable teams in the hopes that we (as a conference) eventually become good enough to win several of those game. I feel like if we focus on become more valuable/marketable as a whole, we have a greater chance of sustaining success and eventually winning several "body bag" games as opposed to tasting success once every 4-5 years.

[MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF]

1 hour ago, GrandGreen said:

Wren has an easy task.  Just put NT90 in charge of scheduling.  He will have P5 teams paying NT to play in Apogee.

On a slightly more serious note, if NT had the resources of a UT, the AD still couldn't satisfy a lot of fans.   Add NT's relatively small stadium, poor current attendance levels, and financial situation; and scheduling become a great challenge for any AD.   

 

All of this and more.  A P5 gives up a home date paycheck to come to a G5, so what is the draw? 

Two things:
(1) the venue has to be big enough to collect enough gate to offset what the P5 would lose by coming to the G5.  UTSA, to some degree UTEP, and Houston/Rice have an advantage in that they either play their home games in a bowl stadium, or are close enough and are willing to schedule at an NFL stadium nearby.

(2) a P5 athletic director simply does a favor for a friend who is a G5 athletic director or coach. Doesn't happen often.  But, can happen.

Otherwise, you're looking at non-marquee P5s, which is also fine.  However, again, because they are also trying to grow their programs in more competitive conferences, they are not looking to travel to G5s without making up their home gate, same as the bigger schools in their conference.

Finally, already linked the article earlier in the year where Nick Saban berated a reported who asked about scheduling.  He made the point that it's hard to get people to come to your stadium because everyone is trying to get home games.  That's why Alabama has played in several "kickoff" games in recent years - its about the only shot they have at getting an OOC marquee opponent to play them during the regular season.

For five years in a row and eight in the last 10, Alabama has played neutral site games to open the season so that they can get a marquee games to help them with strength of schedule:
2007:  Florida State in Jacksonville
2008:  Clemson in Atlanta
2009:  Virginia Tech in Atlanta
2012:  Michigan in JerryWorld
2013:  Virginia Tech in Atlanta
2014:  West Virginia in Atlanta
2015:  Wisconsin in JerryWorld
2016:  USC in JerryWorld

Only once during Nick Saban's time at Alabama have they been able to get a fellow P5 to come to Alabama:  2010, Penn State.  Before that, the last P5 programs to visit Alabama were Oklahoma in 2003 and UCLA in 2001.  Those were the only three OOC home games against fellow BCS schools during the BCS era.

No fellow Bowl Coalition school ever played at Alabama.  Only one Bowl Alliance school played at Alabama - NC State in 1995. 

That's 26 seasons, and only four Bowl Coalition/Bowl Alliance/BCS/P5 schools ever played at Alabama OOC.  In the same time period, we've had more Bowl Coalition/Bowl Alliance/BCS/P5 schools play in Denton than Alabama has played in Tuscaloosa with five:
1995: Oregon State
1996: Vanderbilt
2003: Baylor
2010: Kansas State
2011:  Indiana

Everything else for Bama OOC is FCS and G5...with no return games for the G5.  No 2-for-1s, no neutral sites for G5s.

It's harder than you think, even for the biggest fish in the pond.  Any P5 school going on the road OOC gives up gate money, which they are rarely will do.
 

 

Edited September 20, 2016 by MeanGreenMailbox

[gangrene]

Sorry to revive this thread, but I was looking at Rice's 2016 schedule on fbsschedules.com and came across this story about their 3-game series with Texas:  Texas and Rice Schedule Three-Game Football Series

Quote

In the first game of the series, Texas and Rice will square off at NRG Stadium in Houston on Sept. 14, 2019. The Owls will be the home team and will receive a $1 million guarantee, according to a copy of the contract obtained from The University of Texas at Austin via an open records request.

I found the above most interesting.  For those that want home games only at Apogee, would you reconsider playing a "home" game at AT&T stadium or the Cotton Bowl if a team was willing to pay us $1 million+?

Rice also scheduled LSU to play at NRG Stadium, but there's no mention of a payout to do so.