3rd and 45

UNT90 · September 7, 2016

Rewatching some of the plays from the game. On this play, Sutton was left one on one with Chad Davis. There was a safety (McClain) over the top, but he was late reacting and getting to the play, even though Davis had rolled to Sutton's side. Both he and the other safety, #21, got there a smidge too late.

But Davis completely misplayed the ball in the air. He was in a position to make the play if he hadn't misread the ball. The reason Sutton got behind Davis is because Davis played the ball 3 yards too shallow. He was watching the ball and just completely misplayed it.

I mean completely.

The two safeties both arrived at almost the same time, which tells me they both bit on a post route down the middle. Both safeties biting on a route that doesn't involve the other team's top receiver is pretty inexcusable.

Edited September 7, 2016 by UNT90

Ben Gooding · September 7, 2016

It was the throat punch of the game. If someone could screenshot the defensive depth and lineup pre-snap it could be very telling.

UNT 90 Grad · September 7, 2016

23 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

It was the throat punch of the game. If someone could screenshot the defensive depth and lineup pre-snap it could be very telling.

Watching the 3 different angles of the play from this video might be the closest you get.

Marty · September 7, 2016

How are you watching the replays?

UNT 90 Grad · September 7, 2016

6 minutes ago, Marty said:

How are you watching the replays?

He said in another thread that he recorded it from DirecTV.

Marty · September 7, 2016

4 minutes ago, UNT 90 Grad said:

He said in another thread that he recorded it from DirecTV.

Ok thanks

GOMG2013 · September 7, 2016

On this shot, it looks as if the nickel is at the 12 yard line. Why? Davis is one on one with Sutton. Not the only time Sutton was one on one. The two safeties are in the middle of the field. No one on top of the route yet. Davis was supposed to box him out and jump straight up to knock it down or rip through his arms. The safety over the top should have been there to stop the route and make the WR adjust. The wr was not supposed to get that deep and behind anyone.

2 LBs sitting at the 40 in no man's land. Waiting for what? Davis shouldn't have had enough time to even get that pass off with two free LBs.

TreeFiddy · September 7, 2016

Aren't the 2 DBs there to keep the QB honest so he doesn't just run around our linemen and easily get them in field goal range? Again, this was not an end of half play, it was just 3rd and super long. Blitzing the LBs with Davis' elusiveness would just add more risk.

Could it be that the players were in position and just did not get it done?

ETA: meant 2 LBs not DBs

Edited September 7, 2016 by TreeFiddy

Ben Gooding · September 7, 2016

2 minutes ago, TreeFiddy said:

Aren't the 2 DBs there to keep the QB honest so he doesn't just run around our linemen and easily get them in field goal range? Again, this was not an end of half play, it was just 3rd and super long. Blitzing the LBs with Davis' elusiveness would just add more risk.

Could it be that the players were in position and just did not get it done?

Players weren't really in position. In that last screenshot the ball is almost at its intended target and both safeties are between the hash marks. There is a WR on each side of the hashmarks, but noone inside the hashmarks except for our 2 safeties. It it what it is. Nothing to do about it at this point. 17-14 at the half brings an entirely different dynamic to the 2nd half. Boo.

TreeFiddy · September 7, 2016

If the CB was going for the ball, shouldn't the safety haven been laying Sutton flat as the ball arrived instead of going up for the ball? I thought that was what safeties were supposed to do.

Seems like when you get an opportunity to lay out an all american standing still with his arms straight up in the air that a safety would not pass on the opportunity to give his ribs a little tenderizing.

MGNation92 · September 7, 2016

Anybody have a way of sharing those game recordings? I'd like to rewatch parts of the game

UNT90 · September 7, 2016

Chad Davis was the only person in the perfect position to make the play at the goal line. He simply misjudged not only the depth of the thrown football, but he also mistimed his jump as he was on the way down as the ball sailed over his fingertips. Just really bad CB play on that specific play.

But he also got zero help from McClain, who made Avery dumb football play by not knowing that Sutton was streaking down his sideline and pinching in on the post route. When the opposite side safety arrives on your sideline at the same time as you, you know as a safety you have made a boneheaded decision.

Just really bad awareness by the UNT secondary at an extremely critical point in the game.

NT93 · September 7, 2016

My thought at the game was that the ball was in the air forever. I felt as though I could have left my seat and had enough time to make a play on the ball. Anyway, my take as it happened was that Davis just misjudged the ball. I wasn't quite sure if he jumped too soon or exactly what happened, I just thought he misplayed it. Killer play and typical of what seems to happen to UNT.

UNT90 · September 7, 2016

38 minutes ago, NT93 said:

My thought at the game was that the ball was in the air forever. I felt as though I could have left my seat and had enough time to make a play on the ball. Anyway, my take as it happened was that Davis just misjudged the ball. I wasn't quite sure if he jumped too soon or exactly what happened, I just thought he misplayed it. Killer play and typical of what seems to happen to UNT.

He both misjudged it AND jumped too soon. He was in position to make the play, just failed miserably.

NT93 · September 7, 2016

18 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

He both misjudged it AND jumped too soon. He was in position to make the play, just failed miserably.

So you get downvotes for stating facts??? I bet Davis would say that he was in position to make the play but failed miserably.

FWIW, I'm a big fan of Davis, so no disrespect intended. I think he'll succeed far more times that he'll fail this season.

UNT90 · September 7, 2016

15 minutes ago, NT93 said:

So you get downvotes for stating facts??? I bet Davis would say that he was in position to make the play but failed miserably.

FWIW, I'm a big fan of Davis, so no disrespect intended. I think he'll succeed far more times that he'll fail this season.

It's the trendy thing to do.

We are talking about one play, not Davis's whole career. Some people just can't get that.

And he was also hung out to dry by his safety.

Edited September 7, 2016 by UNT90

Ben Gooding · September 7, 2016

8 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

It's the trendy thing to do.

We are talking about one play, not Davis's whole career. Some people just can't get that.

And he was also hung out to dry by his safety.

This.

malonish · September 7, 2016

Crazy play. From my end of the field I couldn't see who snagged it until Sutton stood up and flexed (generally a good sign for that player). The whole time the penalties racked up I thought "This is gonna be crazy when we deep bomb it for a TD."

GOMG2013 · September 7, 2016

8 hours ago, NT93 said:

So you get downvotes for stating facts??? I bet Davis would say that he was in position to make the play but failed miserably.

FWIW, I'm a big fan of Davis, so no disrespect intended. I think he'll succeed far more times that he'll fail this season.

In the post game, he pretty much said he should have made the play. Thats the right mentality. Better technique could have put him in better position, but even if he makes the play one on one, it still has to be alarms going off about the coverage.

Davis could have also got a hand on it and it bounces backwards to the wr. Thats how a lot of hail Mary's get caught. Off of tips. Thats why a saftey has to be behind the play to prevent flukey stuff.

outoftown · September 7, 2016

One more simple fact. If ever there was a reasonable time to take an interference penalty, this was it. This goes particularly for the safeties coming in. If they interfere it only gets called if Davis doesn't get the ball first, for otherwise its uncatchable. Giving up those yards on the penalty would be completely ok in this situation.

Edited September 7, 2016 by outoftown

UNT90 · September 7, 2016

One additional point. In Littrell's post game interview, I think he said that UNT defenders had their hands on the ball and Sutton just ripped it away. Littrell knows this not to be the case after reviewing film. No UNT defender touched the ball at any point. It went well over Davis's outstretched, descending hands and McClain got there just after Sutton made the catch.

Just a point of clarity.

Edited September 7, 2016 by UNT90

GOMG2013 · September 7, 2016

They played the coverage of sutton bad all game. Not just the hail mary. The bad coverage on sutton is what created the opportunity for the hail mary.

Like I said earlier, c davis was burnt very early in the game and the ball was overthrown. There were no safeties and SMU went back to it several times and it was the same situation.

Sad part about the 3rd and 45, they seem to have played it the same way they did when it was 3rd and 11. Two LBs were there waiting for a scramble, but it was 3rd and 45...Safety coverage cheated left. Suton was left one on one. The distance and flight of the ball made the play and coverage look a little closer, but I bet it was the same call and coverage of the 88 yarder and the one that was overthrown. Probably the one that nate was bear on too, but just reversed to the opposite side.

UNT90 · September 7, 2016

1 hour ago, GOMG2013 said:

They played the coverage of sutton bad all game. Not just the hail mary. The bad coverage on sutton is what created the opportunity for the hail mary.

Like I said earlier, c davis was burnt very early in the game and the ball was overthrown. There were no safeties and SMU went back to it several times and it was the same situation.

Sad part about the 3rd and 45, they seem to have played it the same way they did when it was 3rd and 11. Two LBs were there waiting for a scramble, but it was 3rd and 45...Safety coverage cheated left. Suton was left one on one. The distance and flight of the ball made the play and coverage look a little closer, but I bet it was the same call and coverage of the 88 yarder and the one that was overthrown. Probably the one that nate was bear on too, but just reversed to the opposite side.

Davis was all over Sutton on this play, he simply misplayed the ball. Sutton was not running free.

Wag Tag · September 7, 2016

5 hours ago, GOMG2013 said:

They played the coverage of sutton bad all game. Not just the hail mary. The bad coverage on sutton is what created the opportunity for the hail mary.

Like I said earlier, c davis was burnt very early in the game and the ball was overthrown. There were no safeties and SMU went back to it several times and it was the same situation.

Sad part about the 3rd and 45, they seem to have played it the same way they did when it was 3rd and 11. Two LBs were there waiting for a scramble, but it was 3rd and 45...Safety coverage cheated left. Suton was left one on one. The distance and flight of the ball made the play and coverage look a little closer, but I bet it was the same call and coverage of the 88 yarder and the one that was overthrown. Probably the one that nate was bear on too, but just reversed to the opposite side.

At least call a timeout and set your D! They have 2 weapons we stop neither the first half! It is not about the play, but the d set before the play! 2 rookie D co ordinators, learn and move on! GMG

Edited September 7, 2016 by Wag Tag

Withers940 · September 7, 2016

I wished Gray #21 would of came in and tried to clean up the play but it is hard to tell how far he was from the action from the camera angle. If he would of laid the lumber on the WR, who knows what would of happened.

Also, The DLine, put some good pressure on Davis but just couldnt get to him