Mason Fine

ABrownGMG · September 5, 2016

Morris is not an awful quarterback, but he was not immediately the savior of this offense in week 1. If he doesn't get better in the next few weeks why wouldn't we just let Fine start the remainder of the season? I personally just don't see the point in letting a talented young quarterback waste a season sitting on the sideline without a redshirt. Would it not be better to let Fine get the experience and chemistry with a receiver group that is returning a good amount of the players next year?

I'm asking as a legitimate question, not so much stating my view point. I want to know why we would let Fine sit if there's a good reason that I don't understand.

Mean_Green09 · September 5, 2016

7 minutes ago, ABrownGMG said:

Morris is not an awful quarterback, but he was not immediately the savior of this offense in week 1. If he doesn't get better in the next few weeks why wouldn't we just let Fine start the remainder of the season? I personally just don't see the point in letting a talented young quarterback waste a season sitting on the sideline without a redshirt. Would it not be better to let Fine get the experience and chemistry with a receiver group that is returning a good amount of the players next year?

I'm asking as a legitimate question, not so much stating my view point. I want to know why we would let Fine sit if there's a good reason that I don't understand.

They are going to play both QBs. Littrell stated this today as his PC. Didnt say how or if there will be a specific rotation, but both guys will play.

Got5onIt · September 5, 2016

The fragile fan base and recruiting base needs to see some wins. As good as Fine might be down the road, Morris gives this team the best chance to win right now. I do think we'll see Morris improve the next few weeks. When this team hits the 7 loss mark and is out of bowl contention, Fine should probably be handed the keys.

Cr1028 · September 7, 2016

On September 5, 2016 at 0:42 PM, Got5onIt said:

The fragile fan base and recruiting base needs to see some wins. As good as Fine might be down the road, Morris gives this team the best chance to win right now. I do think we'll see Morris improve the next few weeks. When this team hits the 7 loss mark and is out of bowl contention, Fine should probably be handed the keys.

Because of my own fears, I want Morris to start at least through the Florida game. He knows what it's like to get drilled by an SEC front 7 and I don't want to tempt fate by rolling Fine out there against a SEC defense with their ears pinned back.

UNTLifer · September 7, 2016

2 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

Because of my own fears, I want Morris to start at least through the Florida game. He knows what it's like to get drilled by an SEC front 7 and I don't want to tempt fate by rolling Fine out there against a SEC defense with their ears pinned back.

Does he? He's built to better handle getting hit by a SEC front 7, but I don't think he ever has.

Cr1028 · September 7, 2016

5 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Does he? He's built to better handle getting hit by a SEC front 7, but I don't think he ever has.

Maybe not, I assumed he had running scout team. Either way, he has at least seen SEC defenses attacking live for the last four years. He knows the speed and mass involved.

ChristopherRyanWilkes · September 7, 2016

On 9/5/2016 at 0:42 PM, Got5onIt said:

The fragile fan base and recruiting base needs to see some wins. As good as Fine might be down the road, Morris gives this team the best chance to win right now. I do think we'll see Morris improve the next few weeks. When this team hits the 7 loss mark and is out of bowl contention, Fine should probably be handed the keys.

I'm curious on this notion that "Morris give this team the best chance to win right now." Based on what, so far? I'm not saying he might, but can we definitively say either quarterback gives us the "best chance to win"? I guess I'm also jaded by the Dallas Cowboys philosophy that the most veteran QB gives you the better chance to "win now." I've never seen this work out if the veteran guy isn't a better QB than the rookie. Fine could very well give you the best chance to win and also build for the future, but that's yet to be seen.

Mean_Green09 · September 7, 2016

12 minutes ago, dd992emo said:

Greg Ward, Jr of University of Houston took a pounding from OU last Saturday and still beat them (dammit). He is almost exactly the same size as Fine. Ward is a little dinged up, but appears ready to play this weekend.

Ward got beat up Yes. But I think we can all agree our OL vs one of the better SEC DLs is not a matchup that bodes well for a small FR QB. I hope he plays some in the game, but I'd give Morris the bulk of the work.

Ward is also a SR. That's 4 years in a college weight and nutrition program. Fine is a young pup.

Wag Tag · September 8, 2016

3 hours ago, Mean_Green09 said:

Ward got beat up Yes. But I think we can all agree our OL vs one of the better SEC DLs is not a matchup that bodes well for a small FR QB. I hope he plays some in the game, but I'd give Morris the bulk of the work.

Ward is also a SR. That's 4 years in a college weight and nutrition program. Fine is a young pup.

The biggest scare with the Florida game is health. With 68 on scholarship this could really expose a major depth problem. Survive for conf play! Start Alec and maybe some clean up for Fine! GMG

Lurker · September 8, 2016

On 9/5/2016 at 0:42 PM, Got5onIt said:

The fragile fan base and recruiting base needs to see some wins. As good as Fine might be down the road, Morris gives this team the best chance to win right now. I do think we'll see Morris improve the next few weeks. When this team hits the 7 loss mark and is out of bowl contention, Fine should probably be handed the keys.

I'm not quite so sure this fan base is that fragile. I think I've matured enough in my 14 years of owning season tickets that I am not that butt hurt over a loss.

UNT90 · September 8, 2016

On ‎9‎/‎5‎/‎2016 at 0:32 PM, ABrownGMG said:

Morris is not an awful quarterback, but he was not immediately the savior of this offense in week 1. If he doesn't get better in the next few weeks why wouldn't we just let Fine start the remainder of the season? I personally just don't see the point in letting a talented young quarterback waste a season sitting on the sideline without a redshirt. Would it not be better to let Fine get the experience and chemistry with a receiver group that is returning a good amount of the players next year?

I'm asking as a legitimate question, not so much stating my view point. I want to know why we would let Fine sit if there's a good reason that I don't understand.

The answer is very simple and has been answered by Littrell himself.

We won't.

Got5onIt · September 8, 2016

5 hours ago, ChristopherRyanWilkes said:

I'm curious on this notion that "Morris give this team the best chance to win right now." Based on what, so far? I'm not saying he might, but can we definitively say either quarterback gives us the "best chance to win"? I guess I'm also jaded by the Dallas Cowboys philosophy that the most veteran QB gives you the better chance to "win now." I've never seen this work out if the veteran guy isn't a better QB than the rookie. Fine could very well give you the best chance to win and also build for the future, but that's yet to be seen.

Morris is a 5th year senior and has been around big time college football for a long time. The speed of the game is more than enough to get to a true freshman. The jump from high school football to college football is unparalleled. This isn't the NFL. Speed, strength, and scheme are completely different animals for 99.9% of 18 year olds entering this level of football. Morris has shown he's got some ability but does have his issues. There's no need to get Fine killed right now with all the holes on both sides of the ball....

ChristopherRyanWilkes · September 8, 2016

4 minutes ago, Got5onIt said:

Morris is a 5th year senior and has been around big time college football for a long time. The speed of the game is more than enough to get to a true freshman. The jump from high school football to college football is unparalleled. This isn't the NFL. Speed, strength, and scheme are completely different animals for 99.9% of 18 year olds entering this level of football. Morris has shown he's got some ability but does have his issues. There's no need to get Fine killed right now with all the holes on both sides of the ball....

Funny you bring that up, because speed of the game seems to be exactly Morris' problem right now. So you would give the advantage under this test to someone who has only gotten practice field reps and hasn't played a true game since high school (4 years ago)? i would say they are on even footing as far as experience, aside from last week's game. You are simply saying one is a senior and the other is a freshman, which really doesn't mean much to my original question of who gives us the best chance to win.

Might I add -- this was McCarney's philosophy too. Didn't pan out. It seems SL has a willingness and will indeed let the best QB play regardless of the classification on their transcript.

Got5onIt · September 8, 2016

9 minutes ago, ChristopherRyanWilkes said:

Funny you bring that up, because speed of the game seems to be exactly Morris' problem right now. So you would give the advantage under this test to someone who has only gotten practice field reps and hasn't played a true game since high school (4 years ago)? i would say they are on even footing as far as experience, aside from last week's game. You are simply saying one is a senior and the other is a freshman, which really doesn't mean much to my original question of who gives us the best chance to win.

Might I add -- this was McCarney's philosophy too. Didn't pan out. It seems SL has a willingness and will indeed let the best QB play regardless of the classification on their transcript.

Fine came in for mop up duty. He looked good, no doubt. Morris showed flashes, enough to keep the starting job, IMO. It's more than just academic classification, Morris went through 5 off seasons at this level and is the lesser of the 2 evils. SL doesn't sound like a coach who'd sit the best player for any reason. If Fine was that much better, he'd be the starter. Talent wise, if they're equal (and that's a big if) you have to give the nod to the 5th year Sr in this situation.

McCarney's philosophy was based onwho could hand off the ball the best. Morris & Fine are infinitely better than what we've seen during Dan's era (excluding bowl year DT).

PlummMeanGreen · September 8, 2016

10 hours ago, Mean_Green09 said:

Ward got beat up Yes. But I think we can all agree our OL vs one of the better SEC DLs is not a matchup that bodes well for a small FR QB. I hope he plays some in the game, but I'd give Morris the bulk of the work.

Ward is also a SR. That's 4 years in a college weight and nutrition program. Fine is a young pup.

Remember Riley Dodge?

I have no problem with a 2 QB system until that time in the future that it's needs to be a 1 QB system.

Army of Dad · September 8, 2016

9 hours ago, Lurker said:

I'm not quite so sure this fan base is that fragile. I think I've matured enough in my 14 years of owning season tickets that I am not that butt hurt over a loss.

The stark difference in attendance from last season's opener to the finale would seem to disprove that statement...

Eagleisland · September 8, 2016

28 minutes ago, Army of Dad said:

The stark difference in attendance from last season's opener to the finale would seem to disprove that statement...

Up to a point.

North Texas has always had the bad habit of seeing attendance trail off as the season progresses. That tendency cost us a Liberty Bowl bid in 1978 when we couldn't even fill up Fouts Field against Memphis State (who we beat 41-24) in the final game of the season with a 9-2 team and bowl representatives at the game. It also cemented Hayden Fry's belief that it was time for him to move on.

That is one thing that we as fans need to address if we are ever to be taken seriously win...or lose.

MeanGreenTexan · September 8, 2016

I guess I'm not quite sure we've seen enough of Mason Fine to just say "He's the man, let's roll him out there now!"...
We all knew Morris has not seen live-game action in years and would likely have some rust. Give the coaches a chance to coach him up a little and correct the mistakes (like holding onto the ball too long), and I think we'll see improvement from him.

Army of Dad · September 8, 2016

21 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

I guess I'm not quite sure we've seen enough of Mason Fine to just say "He's the man, let's roll him out there now!"...
We all knew Morris has not seen live-game action in years and would likely have some rust. Give the coaches a chance to coach him up a little and correct the mistakes (like holding onto the ball too long), and I think we'll see improvement from him.

Morris (and all 5th year senior transfer QBs) was brought in to be the guy right off the bat. It's supposed to be a plug and play scenario.

In our case there was the mitigating factor of QB depth (or more specifically, the stark lack of depth), but Morris needs to show some serious improvement if this team is going to have much of a chance to be competitive.

ChristopherRyanWilkes · September 8, 2016

9 hours ago, Got5onIt said:

Fine came in for mop up duty. He looked good, no doubt. Morris showed flashes, enough to keep the starting job, IMO. It's more than just academic classification, Morris went through 5 off seasons at this level and is the lesser of the 2 evils. SL doesn't sound like a coach who'd sit the best player for any reason. If Fine was that much better, he'd be the starter. Talent wise, if they're equal (and that's a big if) you have to give the nod to the 5th year Sr in this situation.

McCarney's philosophy was based onwho could hand off the ball the best. Morris & Fine are infinitely better than what we've seen during Dan's era (excluding bowl year DT).

The thing is--Morris won the job in camp. There's no doubt Morris is probably more impressive at this point on the practice field. He should be, he's had a lot of experience running scout team offenses. However, we only have a small sample size from both in real games. This week we should see both playing about an even amount of time and that should help settle this. In the meantime, neither one really gives us the best chance to win, because neither has won a game yet. I just find it ironic whether it be the Cowboys or D-Mac last season saying a more experienced guy gives you the best chance to win, while simultaneous not winning a game yet.

Edited September 8, 2016 by ChristopherRyanWilkes

SilverEagle · September 8, 2016

Re: Fine's durability.

Does anyone who is familiar with his career have any information about how much time he was out with injuries? B4 anyone jumps on me to remind me that the level of HS football in which he competed is worlds away from the college game, he still took (or avoided) a lot of hits in his HS career. The laws of physics still apply weather you take a hit from a football player from Tulsa or a player from Florida. And if he was never (or seldom) out with an injury then that's significant. He's very mobile, and it looks to me that he is very adept at not giving anyone a clear shot at him.

Do I need to bring up the analogy of the Oak tree and the Willow tree and which one almost always survives the storm?

Ben Gooding · September 8, 2016

8 minutes ago, SilverEagle said:

Re: Fine's durability.

Does anyone who is familiar with his career have any information about how much time he was out with injuries? B4 anyone jumps on me to remind me that the level of HS football in which he competed is worlds away from the college game, he still took (or avoided) a lot of hits in his HS career. The laws of physics still apply weather you take a hit from a football player from Tulsa or a player from Florida. And if he was never (or seldom) out with an injury then that's significant. He's very mobile, and it looks to me that he is very adept at not giving anyone a clear shot at him.

Do I need to bring up the analogy of the Oak tree and the Willow tree and which one almost always survives the storm?

I agree and it will be important for him to always have that on the forefront of his mind.

Army of Dad · September 8, 2016

9 minutes ago, SilverEagle said:

Re: Fine's durability.

Does anyone who is familiar with his career have any information about how much time he was out with injuries? B4 anyone jumps on me to remind me that the level of HS football in which he competed is worlds away from the college game, he still took (or avoided) a lot of hits in his HS career. The laws of physics still apply weather you take a hit from a football player from Tulsa or a player from Florida. And if he was never (or seldom) out with an injury then that's significant. He's very mobile, and it looks to me that he is very adept at not giving anyone a clear shot at him.

Do I need to bring up the analogy of the Oak tree and the Willow tree and which one almost always survives the storm?

The laws of physics still apply, but if the Tulsa guys is 6'3" 235 pounds and runs a 4.95 40 and the Gator is 6'5" 265 pounds running a 4.7 40 he will hit with greater force.

SilverEagle · September 8, 2016

39 minutes ago, Army of Dad said:

The laws of physics still apply, but if the Tulsa guys is 6'3" 235 pounds and runs a 4.95 40 and the Gator is 6'5" 265 pounds running a 4.7 40 he will hit with greater force.

True, but how do you know Mr. Fine has not already encountered the freak of nature that you described at Florida whilst playing in the Oklahoma HS football system. And the only thing he needs to adjust is how fast he ducks when the aforementioned freak of nature launches himself at him. SMU is not a good measure for the speed and size of Florida, but I noticed that Mr. Fine managed to stay out of harms way on that TD drive that he engineered. In fact he outran some defenders whilst racing to the sidelines on one occasion.

I'm not saying that he should be inserted into the starting job this soon, but from what I've seen of him, he adjusts pretty fast. And he's more durable than most people assume.

Edited September 8, 2016 by SilverEagle

MeanGreenTexan · September 8, 2016

8 minutes ago, SilverEagle said:

True, but how do you know Mr. Fine has not already encountered the freak of nature that you described at Florida whilst playing in the Oklahoma HS football system. And the only thing he needs to adjust is how fast he ducks when the aforementioned freak of nature launches himself at him. SMU is not a good measure for the speed and size of Florida, but I noticed that Mr. Fine managed to stay out of harms way on that TD drive that he engineered. In fact he outran some defenders whilst racing to the sidelines on one occasion.

I'm not saying that he should be inserted into the starting job this soon, but from what I've seen of him, he adjusts pretty fast. And he's more durable than most people assume.

He also looked dazed and watched as the pocket collapsed on him for 2-straight sacks to end the final posession. Everyone needs to chill on crowning Fine right now. Let Littrell do that.
In the meantime, we need to hope Morris is being coached hard this week to better understand the offense (timing-wise, check-wise, otherwise) because he did not do enough to lose the starting job.