SMU HC Chad Morris on UNT: "Big Rivalry"

[Cr1028]

17 hours ago, Monkeypox said:

Well, most of those actually pre-date the modern conferences.  But still, every rivalry on your list except for UNT-SMU has conference affiliation being a factor in it.... there are few that exist outside of that. So apparently, conference affiliation matters.

UT-OU Rivalry - Since 1900. Played 100+ times. Known as Red River Rivalry. Multiple trophies awarded. Started back when Oklahoma was known as Oklahoma Territory. 

Except for every year before 1997 other than 1915-1919, right? You do realize that OU left the Southwest Conference in 1920 having been a member for only 5 seasons, right?

Quote

UNT-SMU "Rivalry" - Played 35 times since 1922, but only 6 times since 1990. No trophy awarded. Never in same conference.  Nobody cares about either school. 

If you ask anybody at all, with the exception of a handful of people on this board, who UNT's rival is, they'll shrug. You ask here, you get an annual debate. Because we've been in 3 different conferences in our 20+ year history since moving back up, and we've only been competitive in a handful of seasons. Few meaningful games even in our own conferences, and none of the rivalries have been particularly regional or with big enough schools to move the needle.

Would they not also shrug if you asked them the name of our mascot, head football coach, athletic director, starting quarterback, or stadium? The OU-UT rivalry is only well-known because OU and UT are well-known. North Texas has never been well-known and SMU hasn't been well-known since 1987. The true meaning of a rivalry is the feeling of the fanbases about each other.

Edited August 30, 2016 by Cr1028

[Matt from A700]

14 hours ago, bloodstunt said:

All time it is lopsided, since 1989 it has been a pretty even back and forth thing.

It didn't help that the first game played in Denton wasn't until 1990.

[Cr1028]

Just now, Matt from A700 said:

It didn't help that the first game played in Denton wasn't until 1990.

Well they were a major conference team then and you know you have to play those home games against P5s wherever they tell you because its what gets you in those P5 conferences. Just look at Houston, they've never been in a power conference before and now their on the cusp of getting in the big 12 because they are playing OU at the Texans' stadium. Oh wait, you say they have been in a power conference before, have a heisman trophy in the case, and are coming off a 13 win season? I guess maybe they aren't the same as us.

[Monkeypox]

5 hours ago, Cr1028 said:

Except for every year before 1997 other than 1915-1919, right? You do realize that OU left the Southwest Conference in 1920 having been a member for only 5 seasons, right?

Would they not also shrug if you asked them the name of our mascot, head football coach, athletic director, starting quarterback, or stadium? The OU-UT rivalry is only well-known because OU and UT are well-known. North Texas has never been well-known and SMU hasn't been well-known since 1987. The true meaning of a rivalry is the feeling of the fanbases about each other.

So 25 years of being in the same conference isn't a factor, including the last 20 years? And that's not considering all the other factors I listed that make it different from the "SMU-UNT Rivalry."

If the "fanbase" is 100 people across a couple of message boards, then I don't think that's representative of a rivalry with a school as large as ours.

And, as I've already pointed out, all those other rivalries include conference factors AS WELL AS long histories and meaningful games. Something we just don't have with SMU. SMU's fanbase still lives in the glory days of the SWC. Our fanbase worries that if the game is on TV, nobody will be in the stands. That's not a rivalry.

Edited August 30, 2016 by Monkeypox

[Cr1028]

22 minutes ago, Monkeypox said:

So 25 years of being in the same conference isn't a factor, including the last 20 years? And that's not considering all the other factors I listed that make it different from the "SMU-UNT Rivalry."

If the "fanbase" is 100 people across a couple of message boards, then I don't think that's representative of a rivalry with a school as large as ours.

And, as I've already pointed out, all those other rivalries include conference factors AS WELL AS long histories and meaningful games. Something we just don't have with SMU. SMU's fanbase still lives in the glory days of the SWC. Our fanbase worries that if the game is on TV, nobody will be in the stands. That's not a rivalry.

So to you there is no rival for us and we just won't have one because we don't have a "long history with meaningful games" with any of our conference mates? Or any other team for that matter? So we just go cheer because its our team and all games are equal? No reason to get more excited about a team 30 miles down the road that recruits many of the same players? Geography matters and it matters way more in the OU-UT rivalry than the conference affiliation does.

[97and03]

Yes, get excited about the SMU and other local games.

But don't fool yourselves: UNT has no rivals. 

Edited August 30, 2016 by 97and03

[Cr1028]

6 minutes ago, 97and03 said:

Yes, get excited about the SMU and other local games.

But don't fool yourselves: UNT has no rivals. 

I don't want to believe you. @Brett Vito knows. See.

 

Plus we have a rivals site?

Edited August 30, 2016 by Cr1028

[EagleMBA]

2 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

Plus we have a rivals site?

I was STUNNED I tell 'ya ...just STUNNED at the timely news articles there!

[GangGreen]

I think it is less like UT-OU and more like UTEP-NMSU.

[Monkeypox]

2 hours ago, Cr1028 said:

So to you there is no rival for us and we just won't have one because we don't have a "long history with meaningful games" with any of our conference mates? Or any other team for that matter? So we just go cheer because its our team and all games are equal? No reason to get more excited about a team 30 miles down the road that recruits many of the same players? Geography matters and it matters way more in the OU-UT rivalry than the conference affiliation does.

You can get more excited for some games than others. I can't control people's emotions. 

Geography matters, but so does conference affiliation, big games, and history. Using your logic, we should be rivals with everyone from TCU to Abilene Christian.

There's plenty of schools located close to each other that don't give a damn. Because there's never been a reason.

You can ignore all those other reasons why rivalries exist, and what makes them rivalries. If your only argument is "look how close they are" and a handful of games, you just don't have much to go on. 

No. Not all games are equal. Our conference games matter significantly more to our team and school than our non-conference game with SMU. It's possible our non-conference games might some day be meaningful, but not until we separate ourselves from the rest of our conference. In the meantime, UTSA, La Tech, Rice, and even UTEP make more sense for us as rivals. They have geography going for them AND we're in the same conference. Also, we recruit against those schools quite a bit as well. Next step is playing for something meaningful, and putting together a history.

Yes, to me there is no rival for us. We could establish one, but it's going to take a while. And then we'd have to maintain it. For us, at this point, there's really not much of an option for a non-conference rival, because that ship has sailed. So we're going to have to establish one in conference, and then we'll have to KEEP PLAYING against them. Part of our problem, dating back to Sun Belt days, is that neither we nor any of our conference mates were consistently good enough that we were always playing for something.

Now, it's certainly possible, given the length of this series that IF both Morris and Littrell do what they came to their respective schools AND the series continues to 2025, that it will form a solid rivalry. But that's a lot of "ifs" to me. And if nothing's ever at stake for either team, it's going to fizzle out like it always has.

1 hour ago, GangGreen said:

I think it is less like UT-OU and more like UTEP-NMSU.

A 101-yr-old series with 90+ games in it, played every year since 1946 except for 2001 and 2003. They've also played like 200 times in basketball.

Edited August 30, 2016 by Monkeypox

[PonyUp]

On 8/29/2016 at 10:44 AM, Harry said:

 

Brett Vito asked the question that prompted the above response. You can hear it at the 8:40 mark. 

Disclaimer: my daddy isn't rich, I wasn't in a frat and I have never popped my collar.

 

[TreeFiddy]

23 minutes ago, PonyUp said:

Disclaimer: my daddy isn't rich, I wasn't in a frat and I have never popped my collar.

 

You had me believing you until that last part.  

[All About UNT]

 

Head Coach Chad Morris weekly press conference - Aug. 30, 2016

Posted by SMU Football on Tuesday, August 30, 2016

 

 

[Stix]

4 hours ago, EagleMBA said:

I was STUNNED I tell 'ya ...just STUNNED at the timely news articles there!

Only stunned?  You're no Captain Renault!

[EagleMBA]

18 minutes ago, Stix said:

Only stunned?  You're no Captain Renault!

[aztecskin]

@Silent Eagle had a great point. I agree that our programs are more similar than different. 

http://meangreennation.com/parallels-with-smu/

Basically have been the same for 20 years. And what do you know? Both hired ACC coaches known for offense to revitalize a program. 

Whatever the 'rivalry' status among anyone, Wren Baker should make it a priority to schedule Texas teams in all sports. It is good for interest and the travel budget (ours and NT's)

Texas State, SMU, Houston, and even Sam Houston State of we are going to go FCS. In basketball, there are a ton of options -- I'm glad we get game with UTA often. 

That said, let me just say this: 

NT brought a ton of fans to Gerry Ford. SMU better figure out how to gather ups some folks to make it up to Denton and watch their team get its collective a$$ handed to them. 

Thanks, I'll hang up and listen. 

[untjim1995]

15 hours ago, GangGreen said:

I think it is less like UT-OU and more like UTEP-NMSU.

This is spot-on...

[Cr1028]

15 hours ago, PonyUp said:

Brett Vito asked the question that prompted the above response. You can hear it at the 8:40 mark. 

Disclaimer: my daddy isn't rich, I wasn't in a frat and I have never popped my collar.

 

Wow that is deflating.

16 hours ago, Monkeypox said:

You can get more excited for some games than others. I can't control people's emotions. 

Geography matters, but so does conference affiliation, big games, and history. Using your logic, we should be rivals with everyone from TCU to Abilene Christian.

There's plenty of schools located close to each other that don't give a damn. Because there's never been a reason.

You can ignore all those other reasons why rivalries exist, and what makes them rivalries. If your only argument is "look how close they are" and a handful of games, you just don't have much to go on. 

No. Not all games are equal. Our conference games matter significantly more to our team and school than our non-conference game with SMU. It's possible our non-conference games might some day be meaningful, but not until we separate ourselves from the rest of our conference. In the meantime, UTSA, La Tech, Rice, and even UTEP make more sense for us as rivals. They have geography going for them AND we're in the same conference. Also, we recruit against those schools quite a bit as well. Next step is playing for something meaningful, and putting together a history.

Yes, to me there is no rival for us. We could establish one, but it's going to take a while. And then we'd have to maintain it. For us, at this point, there's really not much of an option for a non-conference rival, because that ship has sailed. So we're going to have to establish one in conference, and then we'll have to KEEP PLAYING against them. Part of our problem, dating back to Sun Belt days, is that neither we nor any of our conference mates were consistently good enough that we were always playing for something.

Now, it's certainly possible, given the length of this series that IF both Morris and Littrell do what they came to their respective schools AND the series continues to 2025, that it will form a solid rivalry. But that's a lot of "ifs" to me. And if nothing's ever at stake for either team, it's going to fizzle out like it always has.

I get your point. So they don't view us as a rival. I watched Pony Excess again last night and see that Vito prompted the rivalry quote. But even if there isn't a real rivalry, I won't hate them any less. They are still my most hated opponent and it isn't even close.