Houston Only Getting $400k From OU In Return Game

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF · August 25, 2016

http://www.tulsaworld.com/sportsextra/ousportsextra/oklahoma-football--how-much-is-ou-being-paid-to-face-houston--plus/article_17d3209e-11a2-53af-a426-9fcf5d8bf598.html

So...how much are schools really getting for the back end of home-and-home series with P5s?

meanrob · August 25, 2016

1 minute ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

http://www.tulsaworld.com/sportsextra/ousportsextra/oklahoma-football--how-much-is-ou-being-paid-to-face-houston--plus/article_17d3209e-11a2-53af-a426-9fcf5d8bf598.html

So...how much are schools really getting for the back end of home-and-home series with P5s?

A return game isn't a guarantee game.

VideoEagle · August 25, 2016

Usually teams make far, far less on their away sides of a home-home series. The idea is the home team will make enough money to balance a lower guarantee on their visiting game. What surprises me a little is the amount OU is getting in guarantee money for going to Houston.

What shocks me is Houston managed to get OU to agree to AAC officials in Norman. Big XII teams almost NEVER allow G5 visitors to bring their own officials. The Big XIIs position is officials are neutral so having Big XII officials shouldn't make a difference to any visitor.

Edit - Meanrob is right - it's not a guarantee game!

Edited August 25, 2016 by VideoEagle

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF · August 25, 2016

13 minutes ago, VideoEagle said:

Usually teams make far, far less on their away sides of a home-home series. The idea is the home team will make enough money to balance a lower guarantee on their visiting game. What surprises me a little is the amount OU is getting in guarantee money for going to Houston.

What shocks me is Houston managed to get OU to agree to AAC officials in Norman. Big XII teams almost NEVER allow G5 visitors to bring their own officials. The Big XIIs position is officials are neutral so having Big XII officials shouldn't make a difference to any visitor.

Edit - Meanrob is right - it's not a guarantee game!

You think a school like Oklahoma does anything that doesn't favor them financially?

This wasn't set up by Houston, it was set up by ESPN because SEC wasn't going to participate in their "Texas Kickoff" this year due to several other kickoff game obligations the same weekend - three others.

Oklahoma was a nearby power, and Houston is an easy enough school to pimp.

Finally, I think in all OOC games, the visiting team bring their conference crews. I think you are thinking of the Pac-12 which formerly wouldn't let OOC schools bring in their conference's crews.

Edited August 25, 2016 by MeanGreenMailbox

meanrob · August 25, 2016

6 minutes ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

Finally, I think in all OOC games, the visiting team bring their conference crews. I think you are thinking of the Pac-12 which formerly wouldn't let OOC schools bring in their conference's crews.

Nope.

Cr1028 · August 25, 2016

26 minutes ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

This wasn't set up by Houston, it was set up by ESPN because SEC wasn't going to participate in their "Texas Kickoff" this year due to several other kickoff game obligations the same weekend - three others.

Oklahoma was a nearby power, and Houston is an easy enough school to pimp.

Man you got that right.

Quote

* Oklahoma will be paid $1.35 million;

* Houston will return the contest on Aug. 31, 2019 and will be paid a guarantee of $400,000

UH looks to be losing a net $950k in this deal and they don't even get to hold the "home" contest in their own stadium.

Personally, if we had to pay OU to come play us at JerryWorld, I wouldn't be in favor. I want home games at Apogee, period.

Edited August 25, 2016 by Cr1028

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF · August 25, 2016

5 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

Man you got that right.

UH looks to be losing a net $950k in this deal and they don't even get to hold the "home" contest in their own stadium.

Personally, if we had to pay OU to come play us at JerryWorld, I wouldn't be in favor. I want home games at Apogee, period.

Even if we were guaranteed double the gate we'd get for an Apogee homer?

Here's an article written a couple of years ago regarding the finances and scheduling of these type of kickoff games:

http://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/why-neutral-site-games-help-and-hurt-college-football/

Bama's Nick Saban:

“You ever try to schedule a game?” Saban said. “Do you know what goes into that? And it’s very difficult to do home and home with quality teams. … To be honest with you, you almost have to buy games to get people to play you. Outside of the neutral-site game we do and our conference games, we struggle to schedule three other games.”

To get at least a $3.2 million payout from this year’s Chick-fil-A Kickoff, Alabama must sell 31,000 tickets at prices ranging from $80 to $200 for adults. (West Virginia has the same payout but must only sell 25,000 tickets.) A ticket to the Alabama-Wisconsin game next year will range from $125 to $300.

Cr1028 · August 25, 2016

5 minutes ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

Even if we were guaranteed double the gate we'd get for an Apogee homer?

Yes. I don't want a home game to turn into a neutral or away game. Maybe that is ignorant on my part but to me the optics and some semblance of homefield advantage are more important than the extra money.

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF · August 25, 2016

11 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

Yes. I don't want a home game to turn into a neutral or away game. Maybe that is ignorant on my part but to me the optics and some semblance of homefield advantage are more important than the extra money.

Fair enough.

But, consider the bigger picture (even though I don't believe we are in the Bigger Picture of Conference Realignment): Houston and Rice are both trying to move up, and both have given up future "home" campus games to schools to play them at NRG.

I guess time will tell whether or not the new AD will consider doing these things. Money is the lifeblood of it all.

My initial reason for posting was to note that Houston appears to be getting far less on the back end than school normally are said to be paid to go play Christians versus Lions games against big name P5s. Maybe OU threw the Cougars a bone, and the price allows them to buy out of it for less.

Some contracts in PDF form in this article regarding what Big Ten schools are paying out. LSU, for instance is getting $2.1 million for their roadie in Green Bay this season.
http://www.foxsports.com/wisconsin/story/million-dollars-baby-cost-of-big-ten-opponents-keeps-rising-060414

Edited August 25, 2016 by MeanGreenMailbox

VideoEagle · August 25, 2016

20 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

Man you got that right.

UH looks to be losing a net $950k in this deal and they don't even get to hold the "home" contest in their own stadium.

Don't forget UH gets to charge everyone for tickets to the game. How many OU fans are in Houston and rarely see a game in person? How many OU fans are rabid enough to be happy to pay a premium for those tickets. Remember OU fans have been known to buy season tickets to see their away games - go to the one game they wanted and dump the rest on scalpers. At $50/ticket they make back the $950k at 19k fans. I suspect they'll be charging more than $50. They will have a lot more than 19k for this game! IIRC, we charged a premium for Baylor or KState a while back.

UH will do just fine on this arrangement.

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF · August 25, 2016

Here's a good one between Indiana and Indiana State: http://www.foxsports.com/content/dam/fsdigital/RSN/Wisconsin/2014/06/04/Contracts/IndianaGameContracts.pdf

"$450,000 to Indiana State Univeristy + (box lunches at end of game)"

A little cash, a little food for the effort.

NTXCoog · August 25, 2016

1 hour ago, Cr1028 said:

Personally, if we had to pay OU to come play us at JerryWorld, I wouldn't be in favor. I want home games at Apogee, period.

Keep in mind UH also has 6 real home games at TDECU including P5 Louisville. This is a 7th game in the city of Houston that has been a neutral site kickoff game for the prior 3 years.

If you had 6 home games at Apogee including a ranked P5 team, would you be happy to play an additional game versus OU at JerryWorld?

Aldo · August 25, 2016

8 minutes ago, NTXCoog said:

If you had 6 home games at Apogee including a ranked P5 team, would you be happy to play an additional game versus OU at JerryWorld?

How much they payin' us?

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF · August 25, 2016

25 minutes ago, NTXCoog said:

Keep in mind UH also has 6 real home games at TDECU including P5 Louisville. This is a 7th game in the city of Houston that has been a neutral site kickoff game for the prior 3 years.

If you had 6 home games at Apogee including a ranked P5 team, would you be happy to play an additional game versus OU at JerryWorld?

Of course. But, many others here wouldn't. And, that is why our school's athletic department is cash - and, public relations - poor.

As far as Louisville, they've been in Houston before because they are your former conference mates in C-USA from 1996 to 2005 and AAC in 2013. So, how much of a get is that, really?

Oklahoma actually going to TDECU...or Michigan or USC or LSU...that would be a different story. Louisville, only a recent addition to the P5 world, doesn't hold much national cache football-wise. Lousiville didn't join the ACC/P5 until 2014. It's likely that game was scheduled when they were still G5.

On the flip side, though, of Louisville at TDECU, what is the upside to visiting Texas State on September 24th? Just curious. I'd have no problem with us home and homing Texas State. But, it seems a bit out of step with what Houston has been building towards. What is the back story with that?

Edited August 25, 2016 by MeanGreenMailbox

UNTFan23 · August 25, 2016

Just now, MeanGreenMailbox said:

Of course. But, many others here wouldn't. And, that is why our school's athletic department is cash - and, public relations - poor.

As far as Louisville, they've been in Houston before because they are your former conference mates in C-USA from 1996 to 2005. So, how much of a get is that, really?

Oklahoma actually going to TDECU...or Michigan or USC or LSU...that would be a different story. Louisville, only a recent addition to the P5 world, doesn't hold much national cache football-wise. Lousiville didn't join the ACC/P5 until 2014. It's likely that game was schedule when they were still G5.

On the flip side, though, of Louisville at TDECU, what is the upside to visiting Texas State on September 24th? Just curious. I'd have no problem with us home and homing Texas State. But, it seems a bit out of step with what Houston has been building towards. What is the back story with that?

I thought Louisville was in the Big East, which was a BCS conference. Am I wrong about that conference affiliation?

Aldo · August 25, 2016

7 minutes ago, UNTFan23 said:

I thought Louisville was in the Big East, which was a BCS conference. Am I wrong about that conference affiliation?

Big East (2005) => AAC (2013) => ACC (2014)

ETA: @UNTFan23 I did little cursory reading and it looks like those football schools that split off to the AAC kept their BCS bid?

Edited August 25, 2016 by Aldo

untjim1995 · August 25, 2016

1 hour ago, Cr1028 said:

Yes. I don't want a home game to turn into a neutral or away game. Maybe that is ignorant on my part but to me the optics and some semblance of homefield advantage are more important than the extra money.

Then our current schedule is perfect for you. We will never play anyone in the next decade that will make us feel like its a neutral site game or worse. SMU has had that happen when they have hosted us, A&M, Tech, OSU, Baylor, and TCU over the years at Ford Stadium.

I have said it before, but I would so be on the phone with T. Boone and looking at scheduling a series with OSU, playing here in the years that TCU plays in Stillwater. They are the only Texoma school that doesn't play a game in DFW every year, which I know they would be interested in doing. If you had a year where you played at bodybag, at SMU, home against OSU, and a road game at another G5, that would still be better for UNT than what we do now. Playing at SMU gives you the chance to improve the schedule and still give your fans a chance to watch a game in the Metroplex that is basically a home game still.

If the UNT schedule has any FCS team on it, its just a waste. I'd love a schedule like this going forward, assuming that we have to continue getting whored out in a bodybag game:

@bodybag

home game against OSU, BYU, Mizzou, Colorado, KU, KSU, Boise State, Tulsa, UH, or Tulane

@ SMU

@ one of the opponents listed above

Then, the following year:

SMU

@bodybag

home game against one the teams listed above

@ one of the teams listed above.

If you feel that a home game against a FCS spare is better because you get 6 times to watch us play at Apogee every year, you are just being short-sighted. Those games don't do one thing good for the program in our current situation. Even if we beat Butt Cookman, nobody will care. But if we lose to them, its just a severe kick to the crotch, one tat is easy to use against us on the recruiting trail and with the media. Its just colossally bad that RV was allowed to schedule the way he did with these FCS games for years ahead. It is a price we will be paying for many years to come, both as a fanbase and as a team.

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF · August 25, 2016

15 minutes ago, Aldo said:

Big East => AAC => ACC

Yes. And, the game was scheduled in 2013, the Cardinals lone full season in the AAC, but after Louisville already knew they were going ACC. I think it was just an easy schedule for them because...conference schedule of their two years in AAC already had them playing Houston.

So, again, this wasn't like going out and landing a really big fish to your home stadium.

14 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

Then our current schedule is perfect for you. We will never play anyone in the next decade that will make us feel like its a neutral site game or worse. SMU has had that happen when they have hosted us, A&M, Tech, OSU, Baylor, and TCU over the years at Ford Stadium.

I have said it before, but I would so be on the phone with T. Boone and looking at scheduling a series with OSU, playing here in the years that TCU plays in Stillwater. They are the only Texoma school that doesn't play a game in DFW every year, which I know they would be interested in doing. If you had a year where you played at bodybag, at SMU, home against OSU, and a road game at another G5, that would still be better for UNT than what we do now. Playing at SMU gives you the chance to improve the schedule and still give your fans a chance to watch a game in the Metroplex that is basically a home game still.

If the UNT schedule has any FCS team on it, its just a waste. I'd love a schedule like this going forward, assuming that we have to continue getting whored out in a bodybag game:

@bodybag

home game against OSU, BYU, Mizzou, Colorado, KU, KSU, Boise State, Tulsa, UH, or Tulane

@ SMU

@ one of the opponents listed above

Then, the following year:

SMU

@bodybag

home game against one the teams listed above

@ one of the teams listed above.

If you feel that a home game against a FCS spare is better because you get 6 times to watch us play at Apogee every year, you are just being short-sighted. Those games don't do one thing good for the program in our current situation. Even if we beat Butt Cookman, nobody will care. But if we lose to them, its just a severe kick to the crotch, one tat is easy to use against us on the recruiting trail and with the media. Its just colossally bad that RV was allowed to schedule the way he did with these FCS games for years ahead. It is a price we will be paying for many years to come, both as a fanbase and as a team.

Oklahoma State, futures:
http://www.fbschedules.com/ncaa/big-12/oklahoma-state-cowboys.php

You'd be asking for 2024 and beyond. By that time, my son might be playing for us!

Our schedule will be a two-edged sword if we start winning under Littrell: http://www.fbschedules.com/ncaa/conf-usa/north-texas-mean-green.php

The schedules from here to 2021 are loaded with three winnable OOC games each season. So, we start winning and we get the same accusations Kansas State used to get when they started winning - your OOC is weak.

Well, as with Kansas State back then, you have to start somewhere when you're at the bottom. Personally, I'd be just fine with the accusations if we're bowling every year from here to 2021, as well as competing for conference championships.

Edited August 25, 2016 by MeanGreenMailbox

NTXCoog · August 25, 2016

18 minutes ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

Louisville, only a recent addition to the P5 world, doesn't hold much national cache football-wise. Lousiville didn't join the ACC/P5 until 2014. It's likely that game was scheduled when they were still G5.

Louisville was announced to the ACC in 2012. The announcement of the scheduling of the series was in 2013. So technically they were still G5 when announced, but it was known that they would be P5 when the games happen.

And you're really going to complain about their cache? They've finished ranked 7 times in the last 15 years with only 1 losing season in almost 20 years. I'd argue they have more cache than Texas Tech nationwide except in TX. No, they aren't LSU, Michigan, etc, but there are much worse P5 teams to schedule, many of them that UNT fans on this board have said they'd be thrilled to have come to Apogee.

untjim1995 · August 25, 2016

8 minutes ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

Yes. And, the game was scheduled in 2013, the Cardinals lone full season in the AAC, but after Louisville already knew they were going ACC. I think it was just an easy schedule for them because...conference schedule of their two years in AAC already had them playing Houston.

So, again, this wasn't like going out and landing a really big fish to your home stadium.

Oklahoma State, futures:
http://www.fbschedules.com/ncaa/big-12/oklahoma-state-cowboys.php

You be asking for 2024 and beyond.

Our schedule will be a two-edged sword if we start winning under Littrell: http://www.fbschedules.com/ncaa/conf-usa/north-texas-mean-green.php
The schedules from here to 2021 are loaded with three winnable OOC games each season. So, we start winning and we get the same accusations Kansas State used to get when they started winning - your OOC is weak.

Well, as with Kansas State back then, you have to start somewhere when you're at the bottom. Personally, I'd be just fine with the accusations if we're bowling every year from here to 2021, as well as competing for conference championships.

KSU had to start winning somewhere, but they also knew that they had the revenues from visits to Manhattan from Nebraska, Oklahoma, Okie State, Colorado, Kansas, Mizzou, and Iowa State to allow them to bring in 1-aa teams and the dregs of 1-A for home games every year.

We don't have the luxury when you get the following teams to Denton in conference play: Rice, UTSA, UTEP, La Tech, Southern Miss, MUTS, Marshall, F_U, Charlotte, ODU, UAB, and WKU. And that's after we had ULM, ULL, NMSU, Arkansas State, Troy, Utah State, and Idaho as other conference mates in the last 15 years.

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF · August 25, 2016

13 minutes ago, NTXCoog said:

Louisville was announced to the ACC in 2012. The announcement of the scheduling of the series was in 2013. So technically they were still G5 when announced, but it was known that they would be P5 when the games happen.

And you're really going to complain about their cache? They've finished ranked 7 times in the last 15 years with only 1 losing season in almost 20 years. I'd argue they have more cache than Texas Tech nationwide except in TX. No, they aren't LSU, Michigan, etc, but there are much worse P5 teams to schedule, many of them that UNT fans on this board have said they'd be thrilled to have come to Apogee.

That's not a stretch - Texas Tech has almost no national cache, and very little in Texas. They are an afterthought when it comes to serious P5 contenders.

As for Louisville, after posting a 12-1 record in the AAC, they've been 9-4 and 8-5 their first two seasons in the ACC. They weren't contenders the past two years, and they aren't contenders in the ACC this year either. They finished 2015 unranked.

1 minute ago, untjim1995 said:

KSU had to start winning somewhere, but they also knew that they had the revenues from visits to Manhattan from Nebraska, Oklahoma, Okie State, Colorado, Kansas, Mizzou, and Iowa State to allow them to bring in 1-aa teams and the dregs of 1-A for home games every year.

We don't have the luxury when you get the following teams to Denton in conference play: Rice, UTSA, UTEP, La Tech, Southern Miss, MUTS, Marshall, F_U, Charlotte, ODU, UAB, and WKU. And that's after we had ULM, ULL, NMSU, Arkansas State, Troy, Utah State, and Idaho as other conference mates in the last 15 years.

I agree as far as conferences. But, all that leads to is the eternal Chicken and Egg discussion about the decision to go down to I-AA shortly after allowing Hayden Fry to leave.

I'm for sure, though, that the answer to becoming more competitive quickly is not to repeat the days of playing two or three Big 12/SEC roadies per season.

Cr1028 · August 25, 2016

1 hour ago, NTXCoog said:

Keep in mind UH also has 6 real home games at TDECU including P5 Louisville. This is a 7th game in the city of Houston that has been a neutral site kickoff game for the prior 3 years.

If you had 6 home games at Apogee including a ranked P5 team, would you be happy to play an additional game versus OU at JerryWorld?

Yes.

UNT90 · August 25, 2016

3 hours ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

http://www.tulsaworld.com/sportsextra/ousportsextra/oklahoma-football--how-much-is-ou-being-paid-to-face-houston--plus/article_17d3209e-11a2-53af-a426-9fcf5d8bf598.html

So...how much are schools really getting for the back end of home-and-home series with P5s?

Agenda agenda agenda!!! Lol

Cr1028 · August 25, 2016

56 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

If the UNT schedule has any FCS team on it, its just a waste.

NTXCoog · August 25, 2016

13 minutes ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

As for Louisville, after posting a 12-1 record in the AAC, they've been 9-4 and 8-5 their first two seasons in the ACC. They weren't contenders the past two years, and they aren't contenders in the ACC this year either. They finished 2015 unranked.

And your point is? A team loses a QB drafted in the first round that becomes Pepsi NFL Rookie of the Year and they drop off some. Imagine that. And now they're pre-season ranked again.

I'm more than happy to agree they aren't college blue blood if that's your point, but UNT fans would be over the top thrilled to have them schedule a 1-and-1, as they should be.