How about we honor Abner Haynes before the kickoff against SMU?

NorthTexan95 · August 21, 2016

We can have a special presentation before the game ... have him toss the coin flip. It'll be fun ... especially for Ponyfans and local media.

SHOSS · August 21, 2016

How about we honor a team from our past that got us the death penalty.

greenjoe · August 21, 2016

This is one of those "must do" items that year after year become a "missed do" item. Unfortunately, there will be point in time where it will be too late. I just don't know when that will be. Like a thief in the night.

UNT 90 Grad · August 21, 2016

This season marks the diamond anniversary of Abner Haynes and teammate Leon King integrating college football in Texas.

Note that he was already recognized once during a halftime presentation at the 1998 homecoming game when his number was retired. http://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metadc119142/m1/38/

Edited August 21, 2016 by UNT 90 Grad

greenjoe · August 21, 2016

Here's my idea. Let's contact the players or the families of the retired numbers players. Ask them to "return" the numbers for use with future Mean Green teams, and offer that number to the player at that likely position (ie, running back would get 28, D line would get 75, linebacker would get 55 (Richard Gill) and I don't know what number Ray Renfroe was, and that current player would wear the name of the retired number player. This could be done with one retired number player per game and it would be finished this season.

I'd like to think that we will have so many great NT players, that to retire numbers would force us to go into triple digits. Besides, haven't we had some "retire number players" since the last (was that Joe Greene ?). The Hall of Fame" didn't exist when those numbers were retired. There is no need to honor players by retiring numbers anymore.

GO MEAN GREEN

UNTLifer · August 21, 2016

This is past due and would show the media and those that are misinformed, that we were the first to integrate.

SilverEagle · August 21, 2016

I'm all for it.

I'm also all for Abner Haynes getting a statue before Joe Greene.

Side Show Joe · August 21, 2016

1 hour ago, greenjoe said:

Here's my idea. Let's contact the players or the families of the retired numbers players. Ask them to "return" the numbers for use with future Mean Green teams, and offer that number to the player at that likely position (ie, running back would get 28, D line would get 75, linebacker would get 55 (Richard Gill) and I don't know what number Ray Renfroe was, and that current player would wear the name of the retired number player. This could be done with one retired number player per game and it would be finished this season.

I'd like to think that we will have so many great NT players, that to retire numbers would force us to go into triple digits. Besides, haven't we had some "retire number players" since the last (was that Joe Greene ?). The Hall of Fame" didn't exist when those numbers were retired. There is no need to honor players by retiring numbers anymore.

GO MEAN GREEN

I really like the idea of honoring Haynes at the SMU game. It would be fitting and he certainly deserves it.

I also like the idea of bringing back some of the retired numbers, but only in certain circumstances. I think if we have a returning starter, that has proven worthy, then they should be given the honor of wearing a retired number for the next season. Example: If Jeffrey Wilson were to earn all-conference honors, by leading all C-USA in rushing, then I think it would be great if Abner Haynes walked out onto the field at D.D. one day next fall and presented the young man with a special number 28 jersey to wear for his senior season. Video it. Put it on an episode of "Beyond the Green", with a story about Haynes. Our players should be honored like this. Plus, it would be great for recruiting.

I'll even take this whole thing a step further... North Texas has produced some great musicians. Lets bring one back every homecoming and have them lead the crowd in singing our fight song , and the "North!" "Texas!" chant before the game. Again video it, and put it on an episode of "Beyond the Green".

Edited August 21, 2016 by Side Show Joe

UNT 90 Grad · August 21, 2016

59 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

This is past due and would show the media and those that are misinformed, that we were the first to integrate.

6 hours ago, UNT 90 Grad said:

Note that he was already recognized once during a halftime presentation at the 1998 homecoming game when his number was retired. http://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metadc119142/m1/38/

UNTLifer · August 21, 2016

42 minutes ago, UNT 90 Grad said:

I realize his number was retired,but I would like him recognized, as well as Leon King, for integrating North Texas and Division 1 athletics in Texas. The horrible treatment these two men endured and how it molded that group of young men in to a team should not be forgotten and should be realized by those that never had to endure what these two young men experienced. It may give those that have their feelings hurt by someone wearing the shirt of a political candidate that they do not like something to really think about.

greenjoe · August 21, 2016

Imagine wearing Joe Greene's number with his name on the back !

UNT 90 Grad · August 21, 2016

1 hour ago, UNTLifer said:

I realize his number was retired,but I would like him recognized, as well as Leon King, for integrating North Texas and Division 1 athletics in Texas. The horrible treatment these two men endured and how it molded that group of young men in to a team should not be forgotten and should be realized by those that never had to endure what these two young men experienced. It may give those that have their feelings hurt by someone wearing the shirt of a political candidate that they do not like something to really think about.

I certainly mean no disrespect, but I'm just doing a little defending of our university when those try to act like it has never done anything to honor Abner Haynes. They didn't just do a ceremonial coin flip. They had a halftime ceremony to honor and recognize him as well as retire his number. Recognize him again. Continue to honor him. Lord knows he deserves it, but don't act like the university hasn't recognized his place in history and hasn't done anything yet to honor him.

UNTLifer · August 22, 2016

We are on the same page. I just look at retiring one's number for career accomplishments and recognizing the fact that he and Leon King were the first to integrate D1 football in Texas as two different things.

GrayEagle · August 22, 2016

Ray Renfro wore #33 as an excellent running back for North Texas. However, most of his fame was as a wide receiver for the Cleveland Browns. I believe that he is in the all-time Top 40 of their Hall of Fame. So, maybe a wide receiver.

Greene, Haynes and Renfro were All-Americans of some ilk. Mean Joe has been the only consensus one. Gill was outstanding but never had a full opportunity as he died during surgery after a game. That seems to set the criterion for retiring a number. I might add receiving All-Pro recognition could be a factor as well.

Personally, I do not believe that a number should be retired in perpetuity. Maybe something like 10 or 20 years. Then show them with a list of former retired numbers. I have mixed feelings about only an all-conference type selection being allowed to wear a retired number. We could end up with three or four retired 28s, 33s, 55s, or 75s. We already have to duplicate ten numbers now if we reach the 105 capacity. If a number is retired permanently the numbers available would continue to shrink.

By the way, Abner Haynes first season to play for North Texas was 1956 but at that time freshmen had their own 'league' and couldn't play on the varsity. If you consider varsity only, then this will be the 60th year of Abner's debut. If you consider the time since he put on a North Texas uniform then 2016 will be the 61st season since he began. Either way, make it a milestone but there's more time to prepare if you do it at homecoming.

MeanGreenTexan · August 22, 2016

14 hours ago, UNT 90 Grad said:

I certainly mean no disrespect, but I'm just doing a little defending of our university when those try to act like it has never done anything to honor Abner Haynes. They didn't just do a ceremonial coin flip. They had a halftime ceremony to honor and recognize him as well as retire his number. Recognize him again. Continue to honor him. Lord knows he deserves it, but don't act like the university hasn't recognized his place in history and hasn't done anything yet to honor him.

For real.
Don't stop until everyone in Texas knows that Abner Haynes was the forerunner of integration in Texas collegiate football. Right now, the only people that know about him are die-hard fans like us and people who happen to walk by his HOF plaque and stop to read it. He deserves as much recognition around here as Joe Greene.

Cerebus · August 22, 2016

4 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Right now, the only people that know about him are die-hard fans like us and people who happen to walk by his HOF plaque and stop to read it. He deserves as much recognition around here as Joe Greene.

It even worse than that. UH is convince that Warren Mcvea was the first to break he color line. The school and their boosters constantly trumpet it, and refuse to listen to reason. It's insanity. By the time McVea played a snap at UH (1965) Haynes has already:

Attended NT
Graduated NT
Been drafted in the AFL
Won the AFL rookie of the year
Been an AFL all pro 4 times
Won the AFL MVP
Spent so much time in the AFL that he was named the AFL COMEBACK Player of the Year in 1964.

I have written letters to UH publications and tried to inform UH fans on the internet, they all either ignore it, or have some qualification that you can easily dismiss. These include:

UH was the first to "recruit" a black player, Abner Haynes wasn't recruited. (There is no official NCAA recruiting process like there is today, this means nothing.)
UH was the first "major" college to sign a black player. (Both school were in the top classification, NT was in a major conference while UH was still an independent.)
UH was the first to "sign" a black player. ( This is the newest defense. They claim McVea "signed" with UH and Abner Haynes didn't "sign" with UH. Shows a complete lack of understanding of how recruiting and commitment worked in the past. National Letter of Intent didn't exist until 1981.)

Of course the most common defense is just to ignore or suppress the Abner Haynes info. The Houston Chronicle just ran an article on McVea last year and when I emailed the author and posted a comment they ignored my email and deleted my comment.

The funny thing is McVea does have a claim to fame. He was the first back to play on an SEC field. NT did have series booked with Ole Miss and MIssissippi State but both school canceled the series when they found out Haynes and King played for NTSU.

Sorry for the rant, but this is one particular subject that makes my blood boil.

UNTLifer · August 22, 2016

I agree Cerebus. I hounded Randy Galloway and the rest of the Texas Sports Hall of Fame selection committee members for about 3 years linking everything I could find about Haynes and King trying to get Haynes inducted. Leon King deserves a spot there also just for the abuse those two young men put up with during their freshman year as well as their entire career.

MeanGreenTexan · August 22, 2016

13 minutes ago, Cerebus said:

It even worse than that. UH is convince that Warren Mcvea was the first to break he color line. The school and their boosters constantly trumpet it, and refuse to listen to reason. It's insanity. By the time McVea played a snap at UH (1965) Haynes has already:

Attended NT

Graduated NT

Been drafted in the AFL

Won the AFL rookie of the year

Been an AFL all pro 4 times

Won the AFL MVP

Spent so much time in the AFL that he was named the AFL COMEBACK Player of the Year in 1964.

I have written letters to UH publications and tried to inform UH fans on the internet, they all either ignore it, or have some qualification that you can easily dismiss. These include:

UH was the first to "recruit" a black player, Abner Haynes wasn't recruited. (There is no official NCAA recruiting process like there is today, this means nothing.)

UH was the first "major" college to sign a black player. (Both school were in the top classification, NT was in a major conference while UH was still an independent.)

UH was the first to "sign" a black player. ( This is the newest defense. They claim McVea "signed" with UH and Abner Haynes didn't "sign" with UH. Shows a complete lack of understanding of how recruiting and commitment worked in the past. National Letter of Intent didn't exist until 1981.)

Of course the most common defense is just to ignore or suppress the Abner Haynes info. The Houston Chronicle just ran an article on McVea last year and when I emailed the author and posted a comment they ignored my email and deleted my comment.

The funny thing is McVea does have a claim to fame. He was the first back to play on an SEC field. NT did have series booked with Ole Miss and MIssissippi State but both school canceled the series when they found out Haynes and King played for NTSU.

Sorry for the rant, but this is one particular subject that makes my blood boil.

Nevermind SMU's claims w/Levias. But, if you put it out there like Houston & SMU do, who's to disagree? If NT keeps Haynes under wraps, no one will know any different.

Trotting him out there every 10-20 years is not going to cut it. The SMU game would be a great one to do this with since ALL LOCAL MEDIA will be there to cover the game. Most of those media members probably know about Levias, because SMU is putting him out there. Many likely don't know about Haynes.
Maybe someone would pen a counter-piece in the DMN or FWST to refute the Chronicle's story?

Not to mention the tension in America right now... This is something for UNT to be very proud of.

Cerebus · August 22, 2016

10 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Nevermind SMU's claims w/Levias.

To be fair, SMU never claimed he was the first black player in Texas. They claim he was the first black player in the SWC, which is correct.

UH is the one that drives me nuts, McVea played there NINE YEARS after Haynes and King. Like I stated before, that is so long after Haynes that he had already graduated NT, played in the AFL and had been named the COMEBACK POY the YEAR BEFORE McVea played at UH.

UH and their boosters just continue to ignore it.

MeanGreenTexan · August 22, 2016

2 minutes ago, Cerebus said:

To be fair, SMU never claimed he was the first black player in Texas. They claim he was the first black player in the SWC, which is correct.

UH is the one that drives me nuts, McVea played there NINE YEARS after Haynes and King. Like I stated before, that is so long after Haynes that he had already graduated NT, played in the AFL and had been named the COMEBACK POY the YEAR BEFORE McVea played at UH.

UH and their boosters just continue to ignore it.

Correct or not, to a lot of people who wouldn't know any better, "The first to play in the SWC" = "The first to play D1 football in Texas". I wasn't even aware of Houston's claims with McVea (who was 1 year prior to Levias) until recently.

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF · August 22, 2016

41 minutes ago, Cerebus said:

It even worse than that. UH is convince that Warren Mcvea was the first to break he color line. The school and their boosters constantly trumpet it, and refuse to listen to reason. It's insanity. By the time McVea played a snap at UH (1965) Haynes has already:

Attended NT

Graduated NT

Been drafted in the AFL

Won the AFL rookie of the year

Been an AFL all pro 4 times

Won the AFL MVP

Spent so much time in the AFL that he was named the AFL COMEBACK Player of the Year in 1964.

I have written letters to UH publications and tried to inform UH fans on the internet, they all either ignore it, or have some qualification that you can easily dismiss. These include:

UH was the first to "recruit" a black player, Abner Haynes wasn't recruited. (There is no official NCAA recruiting process like there is today, this means nothing.)

UH was the first "major" college to sign a black player. (Both school were in the top classification, NT was in a major conference while UH was still an independent.)

UH was the first to "sign" a black player. ( This is the newest defense. They claim McVea "signed" with UH and Abner Haynes didn't "sign" with UH. Shows a complete lack of understanding of how recruiting and commitment worked in the past. National Letter of Intent didn't exist until 1981.)

Of course the most common defense is just to ignore or suppress the Abner Haynes info. The Houston Chronicle just ran an article on McVea last year and when I emailed the author and posted a comment they ignored my email and deleted my comment.

The funny thing is McVea does have a claim to fame. He was the first back to play on an SEC field. NT did have series booked with Ole Miss and MIssissippi State but both school canceled the series when they found out Haynes and King played for NTSU.

Sorry for the rant, but this is one particular subject that makes my blood boil.

Hmmm. Oklahoma wasn't a major college in 1956?

http://footballmatters.org/celebrating-college-footballs-racial-pioneers-prentice-gautt/

A decade after Jackie Robinson broke the Major League Baseball color barrier, Gautt became the first African-American to play for the Sooners.

Let's do the math, Houston. Jackie Robinson, Dodgers, 1947. Prentice Gautt, Oklahoma, 1956.

Oklahoma national champions in 1950 and 1955 at that point. Won it again in 1956. So, Houston, you have a problem. Oklahoma appears to have been a pretty major college before 1965.

I freely admit to disliking Houston. But, if they are trying to ignore true history to devise their own, and get away with it, they will run up against a wall - when a school that actually cares pays attention to them.

And, that's the rub for Houston - they can get away with the history revision because no one is paying attention to them anyway.

Dear Houston,

Chester Pittman, Oklahoma State, scholarship 1957. Oklahoma State was a member of the Big Seven, a major college school:
http://newsok.com/article/3420674

Oklahoma, Prentice Gautt, 1956
Oklahoma State, Chester Pittman, 1957

Major colleges. Giving black football players scholarships. Before Houston finally did it in 1965.

Give it up, Houston. You are pioneers in nothing gridiron related.

Cerebus · August 22, 2016

4 minutes ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

Hmmm. Oklahoma wasn't a major college in 1956?

Let me rephrase that: In Texas. Their claim is that he was the first black player to play at a predominantly white major college in Texas.

To be fair, North Texas' claim is that Abner Haynes was the fist black player to play at a predominantly white college in a former Confederate state. Blacks had already played in the north, and he beats out Gautt because the Oklahoma mistake wasn't made until 1907. Otherwise he would be tied with Gautt for the first black player in the South.

UNTLifer · August 22, 2016

32 minutes ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

Hmmm. Oklahoma wasn't a major college in 1956?

http://footballmatters.org/celebrating-college-footballs-racial-pioneers-prentice-gautt/

A decade after Jackie Robinson broke the Major League Baseball color barrier, Gautt became the first African-American to play for the Sooners.

Let's do the math, Houston. Jackie Robinson, Dodgers, 1947. Prentice Gautt, Oklahoma, 1956.

Oklahoma national champions in 1950 and 1955 at that point. Won it again in 1956. So, Houston, you have a problem. Oklahoma appears to have been a pretty major college before 1965.

I freely admit to disliking Houston. But, if they are trying to ignore true history to devise their own, and get away with it, they will run up against a wall - when a school that actually cares pays attention to them.

And, that's the rub for Houston - they can get away with the history revision because no one is paying attention to them anyway.

Dear Houston,

Chester Pittman, Oklahoma State, scholarship 1957. Oklahoma State was a member of the Big Seven, a major college school:
http://newsok.com/article/3420674

Oklahoma, Prentice Gautt, 1956
Oklahoma State, Chester Pittman, 1957

Major colleges. Giving black football players scholarships. Before Houston finally did it in 1965.

Give it up, Houston. You are pioneers in nothing gridiron related.

As much as they wish, OU is not in Texas.

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF · August 22, 2016

44 minutes ago, Cerebus said:

Let me rephrase that: In Texas. Their claim is that he was the first black player to play at a predominantly white major college in Texas.

To be fair, North Texas' claim is that Abner Haynes was the fist black player to play at a predominantly white college in a former Confederate state. Blacks had already played in the north, and he beats out Gautt because the Oklahoma mistake wasn't made until 1907. Otherwise he would be tied with Gautt for the first black player in the South.

Either way, Houston is wrong. They were not the first in Texas or the United States. Gautt and Haynes were both in the midst of successful NFL careers by the time Houston woke up and signed Warren McVea.

Look, it doesn't matter what Houston says, even Wiki gets it right: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_McVea
"Offered scholarships by 73 colleges in 1964, McVea signed with the University of Houston, making history by becoming the first African-American to play football for the Cougars."

Houston might be able to fool their own people; but, none of else is fooled.

(Historical note: The Indian Territory wasn't technically at Confederate State, but Indians from the Territory did fight on the Confederate side of the Civil War. They fought on both sides, much like many other families during that war.

I know too much about it because my dad's family and much of my mom's is from Oklahoma, and many are Indian. I grew up hearing about it. My grandparents were born in the Territory and were part Cherokee. Cherokee General Stand Watie was the last Confederate General to surrender, two months after Lee's surrender at Appomattox.)