McKinney's new high school football stadium price increases to $70 million

[Matt from A700]

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/local-news/20160819-mckinney-isd-s-69.9-million-high-school-stadium-nation-s-most-expensive.ece#commentsOuterWrapper

I'd like to get some thoughts on this. Personally, after the entire Allen ordeal, I think it's stupid to drop this kind of money on high school facilities. Many of these players won't even play football once they graduate. Put this money towards academics. Things these kids will value and use their entire life.

[HoustonEagle]

Yes it has become disgusting.  As to the money, most of these stadiums are built after a bond issuance which sadly would never have been approved under the banner of academics.  Further, participation in youth football is actually on the decline.  Priorities are not in order.  

[yyz28]

I think if the majority of voters want this for their community, it's fine by me.

I live in McKinney and voted for the bond.

[UNTFan23]

Keep in mind this is not like Allen where this stadium will be shared across high schools in MISD.

[FirefightnRick]

I'm kind of split on it.

On one hand I don't understand that much money going into the construction.  You can have a damn nice stadium for $12 to $20 Million.  So I don't get the $70 million price?

On the other hand if the voters want it so be it.  If like in our community it's the center of town and it's THE place to be for friends, family, community and businesses to come together and showcase their town and entertain visitors,...then yeah, let's do it.

 

Rick

[UNTFan23]

18 hours ago, FirefightnRick said:

I'm kind of split on it.

On one hand I don't understand that much money going into the construction.  You can have a damn nice stadium for $12 to $20 Million.  So I don't get the $70 million price?

On the other hand if the voters want it so be it.  If like in our community it's the center of town and it's THE place to be for friends, family, community and businesses to come together and showcase their town and entertain visitors,...then yeah, let's do it.

 

Rick

To see concrete costs go up like that is not a shock (to me) as there is literally construction everywhere along the SRT/121 and Dallas North Tollway corridors in addition to the 35Express expansion project. Even US 380 has some massive development projects that have spun up/will be spinning up here shortly. It's difficult to drive around Collin/north Dallas/Denton County and not come across a large development project.

Thankfully the expansion project on US 75 in McKinney is almost finished or is now completed (it's been several months since I've driven that stretch of road) but that was another huge project that may have spurred more economic growth leading to a shortage in construction resources.

Edited August 22, 2016 by UNTFan23

[yyz28]

3 hours ago, UNTFan23 said:

Thankfully the expansion project on US 75 in McKinney is almost finished or is now completed (it's been several months since I've driven that stretch of road) but that was another huge project that may have spurred more economic growth leading to a shortage in construction resources.

Thank all powers that be, it's pretty well done now.  

[FirefightnRick]

9 hours ago, UNTFan23 said:

To see concrete costs go up like that is not a shock (to me) as there is literally construction everywhere along the SRT/121 and Dallas North Tollway corridors in addition to the 35Express expansion project. Even US 380 has some massive development projects that have spun up/will be spinning up here shortly. It's difficult to drive around Collin/north Dallas/Denton County and not come across a large development project.

Thankfully the expansion project on US 75 in McKinney is almost finished or is now completed (it's been several months since I've driven that stretch of road) but that was another huge project that may have spurred more economic growth leading to a shortage in construction resources.

Im not sure the price of concrete in this region has increased the past couple of years to justify $70 Million.  It's how much concrete, what type of concrete used along with grading work, formation labor, reinforcement, along with other materials used and how fancy they want to make the thing that is what runs the cost up.

Rick

Edited August 23, 2016 by FirefightnRick

[UNTFan23]

23 minutes ago, FirefightnRick said:

Im not sure the price of concrete in this region has increased the past couple of years to justify $70 Million.  It's how much concrete, what type of concrete used along with grading work, formation labor, reinforcement, along with other materials used and how fancy they want to make the thing that is what runs the cost up.

Rick

If they use a similar amount of concrete as what was used to build Apogee, then it's going to be a lot.  In the article it mentioned that the estimate had gone up almost $7 million due to the increase in cost of concrete, so I'm pretty sure the cost of concrete for the entire project is pretty high. Also included in the price of the stadium is an end-zone all-purpose facility, so that is factored into the total price.

I guess if they wanted to "low ball" the project they could build a similar stadium to what FAU built, however I have to wonder if going that route might end up costing tax payers more over the long run as I have to question the durability of an all aluminium/metal structure for a stadium.

[FirefightnRick]

Nothing says they have to go ALL metal or ALL concrete.  $70 Million says to me ALL concrete, and there's no need for it.  Want, yes.  Need, no.

 

Rick

[UNTFan23]

1 hour ago, FirefightnRick said:

Nothing says they have to go ALL metal or ALL concrete.  $70 Million says to me ALL concrete, and there's no need for it.  Want, yes.  Need, no.

 

Rick

Farrington Field (1939) and Clark Stadium (1970) are both all concrete builds and still standing and heavily used to this day. Handley (all aluminum) was a POS stadium when I went to WHHS ins the 90s and I bet little to nothing has been done to change that.

Regarding C.H. Collins Stadium (2004), the main grandstands I think are all concrete. Same with Pennington Field (1987).

All concrete is far more sturdy and long term building material. While you could use a mixture of both concrete and metal, at some point within the lifespan of the stadium, that metal will need to be replaced. Going with both materials might be less expensive up front but continuing maintenance and possible replacement over time makes it a questionable decision for a structure you want to serve the school district for a long, long time.

[ColoradoEagle]

I would have voted against it if I lived up there. There's no reason for a high school to spend more than most (all?) FCS schools on a football stadium. Living in Fort Worth, it's bad enough paying this city's exorbitant property tax mixed with Northwest ISD's medium-high tax rate. I noticed McKinney's is now 1.67%, tying it with a couple others for highest rate in DFW.

Edited August 29, 2016 by ColoradoEagle

[UNTFan23]

8 minutes ago, ColoradoEagle said:

I would have voted against it if I lived up there. There's no reason for a high school to spend more than most (all?) FCS schools on a football stadium. Living in Fort Worth, it's bad enough paying this city's exorbitant property tax mixed with Northwest ISD's medium-high tax rate. I noticed McKinney's is now 1.67%, tying it with a couple others for highest rate in DFW.

The stadium will be shared amongst three high schools with a fourth high school likely to be built within the next decade.

[ColoradoEagle]

Just now, UNTFan23 said:

The stadium will be shared amongst three high schools with a fourth high school likely to be built within the next decade.

That does not change my opinion one bit. 

[UNTFan23]

C.H. Collins Stadium cost 23 million in 2003 and seats 12,000. I wonder how much it would cost in today's dollars.

McKinney's cole stadium, Ron Poe Stadium, was built in 1962 and only seats 7,000. It's not large enough for the growing school district and community.

MISD could likely cut corners on the stadium but you might just end up with another stadium that rivals what the F_U twins have.

[ColoradoEagle]

I agree they need to replace what they have, but not with a palace. 

[MeanGreenTexan]

McKinney could learn a thing or two from their neighbors to the West.    

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Voters-Reject-Frisco-ISD-Tax-Increase-391563911.html

Go to the well asking for friggin $70mil stadium (or partner with Jerry Jones & the Star), and next time you actually NEED to go to the well.... you know, to be able to afford staffing the new schools your previous bonds built...  and the constituents will mobilize and vote it down.

[FirefightnRick]

If you want to see an even more rediculous example than what McKinney is trying to pull off... go check out the basketball palace that 3A (at the time) Glen Rose High School built a few years ago for their lousy basketball program.

Lavish to say the least, doesn't seat very many(can't be used for graduation) and is never used for anything other than basketball despite tax payers being promised by their school board that it would serve for numerous uses.

Yet despite the absolute stupidity for a 3A school to build something so damn nice...it still is DAMN NICE and it only cost $15 Million 4 years ago.

McKinney can also have damn nice and they can have it for less than $70 Million.

 

Rick

 

 

Edited August 30, 2016 by FirefightnRick

[Got5onIt]

Ridiculous. At some point it's too much. I love high school sports and think they should build new stadium/facilities as needed but, Jesus H. Christ, there should be some limitations.

[oldguystudent]

The main campus at Lewisville High School has been completely rebuilt since I moved here in 2010 -- except for the football stadium.  This does not displease me one bit.

On the other hand, looking at the these high school joints cost, good ole UN of T got one helluva deal on Apogee.

[UNTFan23]

On 8/29/2016 at 2:56 PM, MeanGreenTexan said:

McKinney could learn a thing or two from their neighbors to the West.    

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Voters-Reject-Frisco-ISD-Tax-Increase-391563911.html

Go to the well asking for friggin $70mil stadium (or partner with Jerry Jones & the Star), and next time you actually NEED to go to the well.... you know, to be able to afford staffing the new schools your previous bonds built...  and the constituents will mobilize and vote it down.

Frisco is looking to delay opening four new schools (Two elementary schools, one middle school, and one high school) as a significant cost savings to the school district ... Link

If you're OK with increased class sizes, this seems like a reasonable option until more funding can be found.

[MeanGreenTexan]

14 hours ago, UNTFan23 said:

Frisco is looking to delay opening four new schools (Two elementary schools, one middle school, and one high school) as a significant cost savings to the school district ... Link

If you're OK with increased class sizes, this seems like a reasonable option until more funding can be found.

Also lost in the shuffle in all of this for Frisco:  The teachers did not receive raises.   So now, you have teachers feeling under-appreciated (of course, they will never take it out on the kids though), 4 empty schools, and a very vocal minority who are more than willing to spend tons of money to defeat bonds asking for money the district actually needs... but hey, they've got the Star!

Pay attention McKinney.

[UNTFan23]

On 10/14/2016 at 7:53 AM, MeanGreenTexan said:

Also lost in the shuffle in all of this for Frisco:  The teachers did not receive raises.   So now, you have teachers feeling under-appreciated (of course, they will never take it out on the kids though), 4 empty schools, and a very vocal minority who are more than willing to spend tons of money to defeat bonds asking for money the district actually needs... but hey, they've got the Star!

Pay attention McKinney.

From what I've read in articles, FISD was going to build a new stadium anyway because of the growth within the district and it was going to cost about 30 million. Then the Cowboys came in and offered the city and school district a deal. Thing is with what they are getting with The Star is worth well more than the $30 million the district paid but some don't want to see past that. Now the entire community gets to suffer.

Edited November 8, 2016 by UNTFan23