Do Not Freak About The WRs

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF · August 3, 2016

Posting, as an example, the dearth of returning receptions OU had from 1998 to 1999:

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/oklahoma/1998.html
http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/oklahoma/1999.html

In 1998, OU was heavily run-based, like UNT was in 2015. In fact, OU was moreso. Their leading receivers in 1998 had 14 catches - yes, 14. Both of them were gone before the 1999 season. In fact, four of the five leading receiver from 1998 were gone when Stoops/Leach arrived at OU and installed their version of the spread offense.

OU's leading receivers, 1998
Chris Blocker, WR: 14 catches, 206 yards, 1 TD - senior
Demond Parker, RB: 14 catches, 176 yards, 1 TD - junior, left after the season to enter the NFL draft
Jarrail Jackson, WR: 12 catches, 218 yards, 0 TDs - junior
Gerald Williams, WR: 11 catches, 141 yards, 1 TD - senior
Jason Freeman, TE: 10 catches, 155 yards, 2 TDs - senior

Seriously, guys...if you think our QB situation was f*cked up in 2014 and 2015, look at OU's in 1998. OU's saving grace in 1998 was that Rex Ryan coaching their defense.

OU's leading receivers, 1999
Brandon Daniels, WR: 50 catches, 572 yards, 3 TDs - senior, had never started at WR before 1999...had played RB, QB, and Safety his first three seasons.
Jarrail Jackson, WR: 44 catches, 583 yards, 6 TDs - was a career backup before 1999; leading returning receiver from 1998 with 12 catches - 12 catches!
Antwone Savage, WR: 31 catches, 426 yards, 1 TD - true freshman
Curtis Fagan, WR: 30 catches, 382 yards, 2 TDs - redshirt freshman...who had spent his redshirt year as a cornerback.
Damian Mackey, WR: 28 catches, 319 yards, 4 TDs - redshirt freshman

OU players with double digit receptions in 1998: 5, four of whom were not in the 1999 squad
OU players with double digit receptions in 1999: 13, including Coach Littrell, who had 13 receptions...which would have been good enough for 2nd on the team in 1998.

Stop freaking out. This isn't Todd Dodge running his high school spread with high school coaches as offensive and defensive coordinators, and a special teams coach who had beenn out of coaching and out int he business world before being hired.

This is Seth Littrell who was at the genesis of the system Mike Leach brought to Oklahoma - with virtually no WRs on the roster and no QB of which to speak.

Too many of you have Beaten Dog Syndrome. The offense isn't difficult. You need guys to catch the ball in short routes and run. They don't have to beat a DB ten yards down the field, then catch the ball.

Just...

...just wait and see. I think most of you will be pleasantly surprised.

Edited August 3, 2016 by MeanGreenMailbox

MeanGreenTexan · August 3, 2016

8 minutes ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

Posting, as an example, the dearth of returning receptions OU had from 1998 to 1999:

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/oklahoma/1998.html
http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/oklahoma/1999.html

In 1998, OU was heavily run-based, like UNT was in 2015. In fact, OU was moreso. Their leading receivers in 1998 had 14 catches - yes, 14. Both of them were gone before the 1999 season. In fact, four of the five leading receiver from 1998 were gone when Stoops/Leach arrived at OU and installed their version of the spread offense.

OU's leading receivers, 1998
Chris Blocker, WR: 14 catches, 206 yards, 1 TD - senior
Demond Parker, RB: 14 catches, 176 yards, 1 TD - junior, left after the season to enter the NFL draft
Jarrail Jackson, WR: 12 catches, 218 yards, 0 TDs - junior
Gerald Williams, WR: 11 catches, 141 yards, 1 TD - senior
Jason Freeman, TE: 10 catches, 155 yards, 2 TDs - senior

Seriously, guys...if you think our QB situation was f*cked up in 2014 and 2015, look at OU's in 1998. OU's saving grace in 1998 was that Rex Ryan coaching their defense.

OU's leading receivers, 1999
Brandon Daniels, WR: 50 catches, 572 yards, 3 TDs - senior, had never started at WR before 1999...had played RB, QB, and Safety his first three seasons.
Jarrail Jackson, WR: 44 catches, 583 yards, 6 TDs - was a career backup before 1999; leading returning receiver from 1998 with 12 catches - 12 catches!
Antwone Savage, WR: 31 catches, 426 yards, 1 TD - true freshman
Curtis Fagan, WR: 30 catches, 382 yards, 2 TDs - redshirt freshman...who had spent his redshirt year as a cornerback.
Damian Mackey, WR: 28 catches, 319 yards, 4 TDs - redshirt freshman

OU players with double digit receptions in 1998: 5, four of whom were not in the 1999 squad
OU players with double digit receptions in 1999: 13, including Coach Littrell, who had 13 receptions...which would have been good enough for 2nd on the team in 1998.

Stop freaking out. This isn't Todd Dodge running his high school spread with high school coaches as offensive and defensive coordinators, and a special teams coach who had beenn out of coaching and out int he business world before being hired.

This is Seth Littrell who was at the genesis of the system Mike Leach brought to Oklahoma - with virtually no WRs on the roster and no QB of which to speak.

Too many of you have Beaten Dog Syndrome. The offense isn't difficult. You need guys to catch the ball in short routes and run. They don't have to beat a DB ten yards down the field, then catch the ball.

Just...

...just wait and see. I think most of you will be pleasantly surprised.

I'm honestly more concerned about the defensive production than I am about offense. I think the offense will do well. I just hope we win those games where scoring is in the 40's-50's.

And again, see the results from SMU last year for a counter, more-up-to-date comparison.

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF · August 3, 2016

The other thing about the offense this year as opposed to last year is that you'd have to convince me that Alec Morris is as bad as Damarcus Smith and Andrew McNulty. That, I seriously doubt.

To me, the only problem we'll have on offense is if Morris is injured. Then, we've potentially got some problems.

MEANGREENCOACH2 · August 3, 2016

i sure hope this staff saw something when they moved Buyers over to the other side of the ball.. Honestly its looking like a better move daily!

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF · August 3, 2016

And, as for SMU, consider this...

...SMU Jesus runs a spread, the same a June Jones did. So, when he stepped foot on campus, he already had guys on the roster recruited to play in that type of offense. And, what happened? He Jesus'd the Ponies to exactly one more win in 2015 than 2014, from 1-11 to 2-10.

Littrell has more college coaching experience than SMU Jesus.

SMU will be a game to watch. Don't be shocked when we win it, either. Just be prepared to enjoy the fallout down the on The Hilltop.

Aldo · August 3, 2016

Too late

MGNation92 · August 3, 2016

the SMU game should be a shootout but idk if we will win it. Should be interesting given Littrell and Morris faced off in 2014 at their previous schools. Hopefully Ekeler and Reffett have some tricks up their sleeve to stop smu

MeanGreenTexan · August 3, 2016

9 minutes ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

And, as for SMU, consider this...

...SMU Jesus runs a spread, the same a June Jones did. So, when he stepped foot on campus, he already had guys on the roster recruited to play in that type of offense. And, what happened? He Jesus'd the Ponies to exactly one more win in 2015 than 2014, from 1-11 to 2-10.

Littrell has more college coaching experience than SMU Jesus.

SMU will be a game to watch. Don't be shocked when we win it, either. Just be prepared to enjoy the fallout down the on The Hilltop.

Considered, and I'm ready for the Mean Green win on 9/3 at Apogee!!!!

Cr1028 · August 3, 2016

42 minutes ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

And, as for SMU, consider this...

...SMU Jesus runs a spread, the same a June Jones did. So, when he stepped foot on campus, he already had guys on the roster recruited to play in that type of offense. And, what happened? He Jesus'd the Ponies to exactly one more win in 2015 than 2014, from 1-11 to 2-10.

Littrell has more college coaching experience than SMU Jesus.

SMU will be a game to watch. Don't be shocked when we win it, either. Just be prepared to enjoy the fallout down the on The Hilltop.

and he shouldn't have even won that many. We should've beaten those guys, no question.

UNT90 · August 3, 2016

1 hour ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

And, as for SMU, consider this...

...SMU Jesus runs a spread, the same a June Jones did. So, when he stepped foot on campus, he already had guys on the roster recruited to play in that type of offense. And, what happened? He Jesus'd the Ponies to exactly one more win in 2015 than 2014, from 1-11 to 2-10.

Littrell has more college coaching experience than SMU Jesus.

SMU will be a game to watch. Don't be shocked when we win it, either. Just be prepared to enjoy the fallout down the on The Hilltop.

Just like Monkin did at USM, eh?

Take everything you said and apply it to SMU last year and one will realize how silly you are.

greenminer · August 4, 2016

This offense will allow the WRs to accumulate numbers. I think the concern is that, while any wideout would produce "system" numbers, the top tier of WRs in Denton bring a big play/scoring threat that you don't see as you move further down our depth chart.

At least, not that I've read or seen. I would love to see a couple new faces step up. I'm cautiously optimistic. I just think an OU comparison is a bit of a reach considering our previous coaches recruiting strategy.

southsideguy · August 4, 2016

9 minutes ago, greenminer said:

This offense will allow the WRs to accumulate numbers. I think the concern is that, while any wideout would produce "system" numbers, the top tier of WRs in Denton bring a big play/scoring threat that you don't see as you move further down our depth chart.

At least, not that I've read or seen. I would love to see a couple new faces step up. I'm cautiously optimistic. I just think an OU comparison is a bit of a reach considering our previous coaches recruiting strategy.

We had a recruiting strategy?

NorthTexan95 · August 4, 2016

We can look at an example close to home.

In 2006 UNT for the season threw 253 passes and had 437 rushes.

Top five receivers: Johnny Quinn (final season) 57 for 633; Brandon Jackson 17 for 188; Zach Muzzy: 11 for 112; Joel Nwigwe: 12 for 96; Casey Fitzgerald 4 for 83.

In 2007 UNT for the season threw 553 passes and had 381 rushes.

Top five receivers: Casey Fitzgerald 111 for 1322; Brandon Jackson 79 for 784; Brock Stickler 37 for 391; Korey Washington 34 for 377; Sam Dibrell 28 for 377.

We need another Casey Fitzgerald to blossom in this offense.

Ben Gooding · August 4, 2016

3 hours ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

And, as for SMU, consider this...

...SMU Jesus runs a spread, the same a June Jones did. So, when he stepped foot on campus, he already had guys on the roster recruited to play in that type of offense. And, what happened? He Jesus'd the Ponies to exactly one more win in 2015 than 2014, from 1-11 to 2-10.

Littrell has more college coaching experience than SMU Jesus.

SMU will be a game to watch. Don't be shocked when we win it, either. Just be prepared to enjoy the fallout down the on The Hilltop.

I like this guy. A set of expectations.

Oh, and I'm not worried about WR. The offensive philosophy doesn't allow it to be an issue. Though it doesn't hurt having studs there, but no worries.

greenminer · August 4, 2016

3 hours ago, southsideguy said:

We had a recruiting strategy?

untjim1995 · August 4, 2016

2 hours ago, NorthTexan95 said:

We can look at an example close to home.

In 2006 UNT for the season threw 253 passes and had 437 rushes.

Top five receivers: Johnny Quinn (final season) 57 for 633; Brandon Jackson 17 for 188; Zach Muzzy: 11 for 112; Joel Nwigwe: 12 for 96; Casey Fitzgerald 4 for 83.

In 2007 UNT for the season threw 553 passes and had 381 rushes.

Top five receivers: Casey Fitzgerald 111 for 1322; Brandon Jackson 79 for 784; Brock Stickler 37 for 391; Korey Washington 34 for 377; Sam Dibrell 28 for 377.

We need another Casey Fitzgerald to blossom in this offense.

This is the worse case scenario for the years ahead. We basically have a Dodge offense that could only move the ball outside of the red zone, but more importantly, never gave a really bad defense any breaks to stay off the field. That was three and a half years of the worst defense that I've ever seen us roll out there. Now, it was more fun than the McDickney run until the clock runs out offense, but the defense could actually stop people every once in a while. And when the defense was great--and the special teams--we had our best years here as a FBS team since we moved up.

If we go back to being a team like we saw under Dodge, where conference mates and fellow G5s are murdering us, we might be lucky to have a season attendance average of 10k. At that point, the newness of apogee will have completely left and that would most likely mean that we will have had one winning season in about 15 years.

greenminer · August 4, 2016

Yards per snap
Points per snap

Do we keep track of stats like these, indications of efficiency? I would be interested in looking at our offensive efficiency each season since 2001.

NorthTexan95 · August 4, 2016

2 minutes ago, greenminer said:

Yards per snap
Points per snap

Do we keep track of stats like these, indications of efficiency? I would be interested in looking at our offensive efficiency each season since 2001.

I believe Littreal does. He's mentioned it a few times.

FirefightnRick · August 4, 2016

Defense is my only concern.

Rick

Aldo · August 4, 2016

10 hours ago, greenminer said:

Yards per snap
Points per snap

Do we keep track of stats like these, indications of efficiency? I would be interested in looking at our offensive efficiency each season since 2001.

It has been some of the worst in the league and in FBS since 2014. I believe @Mean_Green09 has looked at some of these stats over the years.

10 hours ago, untjim1995 said:

We basically have a Dodge offense that could only move the ball outside of the red zone, but more importantly, never gave a really bad defense any breaks to stay off the field.

You're making huge leaps here.

For one, it's not the same offense. And B, we have no idea how this team will compare.

Run/pass ratio or attempts, efficiency, yardage, scoring, etc.

UNT90 · August 4, 2016

10 hours ago, FirefightnRick said:

Defense is my only concern.

Rick

And WR. And OL. And QB.

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF · August 4, 2016

11 hours ago, FirefightnRick said:

Defense is my only concern.

Rick

Thank you.

untjim1995 · August 4, 2016

2 hours ago, Aldo said:

It has been some of the worst in the league and in FBS since 2014. I believe @Mean_Green09 has looked at some of these stats over the years.

You're making huge leaps here.

For one, it's not the same offense. And B, we have no idea how this team will compare.

Run/pass ratio or attempts, efficiency, yardage, scoring, etc.

That's why I said it's the worst case scenario, that his offensive gameplan ends up looking like Dodge's did.

Its not a leap to worry that our pass happy offense can't keep a horrible defense off the field. Just like it wasn't a leap to worry that Dickey's run offense couldn't keep us in games and McCarney basically copied.

Aldo · August 4, 2016

3 hours ago, untjim1995 said:

That's why I said it's the worst case scenario, that his offensive gameplan ends up looking like Dodge's did.

Its not a leap to worry that our pass happy offense can't keep a horrible defense off the field. Just like it wasn't a leap to worry that Dickey's run offense couldn't keep us in games and McCarney basically copied.

To my surprise:

McCarney's run game was statistically never better or more efficient than the last couple of years of Dodge ball.
Dodge's teams 08-11 never had worse than 30 minutes time of possession (Mac's were some of the worst in FBS last 2 years).

If our run game looked like the last couple years of Dodge ball, I'd be both incredibly surprised and ecstatic as it would ease pressure off the pass game.

I'm not going to be concerned about this offensive gameplan. It's the coaching/execution and efficiency (which Mac ended up being bad at both) during the very low time of possession that we will be seeing.

Oh, and the o-line.

risinggreen · August 4, 2016

The success of this team in this offense will ultimately hinge on the success of our QB. If you like him be optimistic, if you don't, well, we're in trouble.