DMN Editorial: Dallas' university, SMU, has a case for Big 12 membership

MeanGreenTexan · August 3, 2016

3 minutes ago, Harry said:

GIF-are-you-sure-bitch-please-bug-eyes-d

greenminer · August 3, 2016

what recruiting policies were in place that handcuffed program development?

TreeFiddy · August 3, 2016

I am shocked that this goober is a smoo alum. SHOCKED I TELL YA!!!!

http://www.dallasnews.com/blogs/sportssay/bios/bio_kwhitmire.html

Edited August 3, 2016 by TreeFiddy

MJavierSMU · August 3, 2016

3 minutes ago, greenminer said:

what recruiting policies were in place that handcuffed program development?

Until a couple of years ago, a recruit had to be admitted to the school before he could take an official visit.

Aldo · August 3, 2016

He also tweets about SMU having history in the SWC.

Y'all, it's been a LONG time since the SWC was relevant.

I was 2 the last time a SWC champion won a bowl game.

TreeFiddy · August 3, 2016

9 minutes ago, MJavierSMU said:

Until a couple of years ago, a recruit had to be admitted to the school before he could take an official visit.

<UNT hat off> Ouch. That would be tough. </UNT hat off>

<UNT hat on>Way to sell out academics for athletics dirty smoo.</UNT hat on>

MJavierSMU · August 3, 2016

5 hours ago, Green Mean said:

Bear in mind it's just an editorial. SMU offers a P5 conference zilch at this point. All they can say is they have the funds to do whatever they need and want to do and that they have a history being in the SWC. Other than that SMU offers nothing.

I'll argue that we offer zilch. I have no idea why people think SMU basketball is about to tank. It is actually the complete opposite. Our team this year might be our best during this stretch. We have three, possibly four, NBA players on the roster (Shake, Semi, Ben Moore and Sterling Brown who is the brother of former NBAer Shannon Brown). Jank will open the offense up a little more than LB and every game will once again be a sellout. Even though we wont start the season ranked we have been ranked 29 weeks in the past three season and we should add to that.

As for the Big 12, l don't think we get in but we offer a top 25 level basketball program with excellent fan support, planned upgraded facilities in football, another game every other year in football and every year in basketball in Dallas, huge corporate sponsorship possibilities and excellent soccer, golf, volleyball and swimming programs, we do offer a little.

Edited August 3, 2016 by MJavierSMU

greenminer · August 3, 2016

6 minutes ago, MJavierSMU said:

I'll argue that we offer zilch. I have no idea why people think SMU basketball is about to tank. It is actually the complete opposite. Our team this year might be our best during this stretch. We have three, possibly four, NBA players on the roster (Shake, Semi, Ben Moore and Sterling Brown who is the brother of former NBAer Shannon Brown). Jank will open the offense up a little more than LB ... Even though we wont start the season ranked we have been ranked 29 weeks in the past three season and we should add to that.

A lot of this sentiment and circumstance reads ominously familiar.

Good luck?

82bf64ec257b084806ce0b37ab8abd67e6121c85

Edited August 3, 2016 by greenminer

UNT90 · August 3, 2016

Larry Brown has left the building. If history is any indicator, recruiting violations and probation are right around the corner.

SMU is a high G5 in basketball and a turd of a G5 in the program that matters: football. They have a 31k seat stadium that isn't anywhere near what a P5 wants and are 30 miles from TCU, which is in this market and the Big 12.

SMU fans should ask themselves if they are ok with UNT entering the AAC assuming SMU remains. All of the same reasons you are diametrically opposed to UNT coming to the AAC are the same reasons TCU will be opposed to your inclusion in the Big 12.

And, seriously, stop being UTSA. You haven't earned your way into the Big 12 like TCU did.

So just stop...

Green Mean · August 3, 2016

15 minutes ago, MJavierSMU said:

I'll argue that we offer zilch. I have no idea why people think SMU basketball is about to tank. It is actually the complete opposite. Our team this year might be our best during this stretch. We have three, possibly four, NBA players on the roster (Shake, Semi, Ben Moore and Sterling Brown who is the brother of former NBAer Shannon Brown). Jank will open the offense up a little more than LB and every game will once again be a sellout. Even though we wont start the season ranked we have been ranked 29 weeks in the past three season and we should add to that.

As for the Big 12, l don't think we get in but we offer a top 25 level basketball program with excellent fan support, planned upgraded facilities in football, another game every other year in football and every year in basketball in Dallas, huge corporate sponsorship possibilities and excellent soccer, golf, volleyball and swimming programs.

FTR I've nothing against SMU and have several friends that graduated there. You have a lot more going against you than for you and that's just a reality. Who knows what MBB does after Brown leaving and what the sanctions does to the program. Football is still terrible tho I admit I think Chad Morris seemed to be a really good hire to get things back in the right direction. You guys are a very small private school so there will probably always be attendance issues unless you're winning at the rate TCU has been for the past decade plus. And the Big 12 already has the Dallas market because of the schools already affiliated including TCU. If another P5 is absolutely desperate in getting a Dallas presence and SMU is their only hope and option then MAYBE JUST MAYBE they'd be considered but I don't see that happening anytime in the near future. SMU does have great academics and well accomplished in other sports but those are sports that are non-revenue or sports that conferences care very little or nothing about.

That being said I do give SMU credit for at least trying even tho I think there's zero chance at a Big 12 consideration. At stated above only way the dream of North Texas or SMU ever having a chance at for consideration in a P5 conference will be ones that have no Texas/DFW presence and they're dying to get it but it will take not only spending money on athletics but winning like crazy in football and that too for many many years like TCU and Houston have been consistently able to do.

Edited August 3, 2016 by Green Mean

MJavierSMU · August 3, 2016

18 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

Larry Brown has left the building. If history is any indicator, recruiting violations and probation are right around the corner.

SMU is a high G5 in basketball and a turd of a G5 in the program that matters: football. They have a 31k seat stadium that isn't anywhere near what a P5 wants and are 30 miles from TCU, which is in this market and the Big 12.

SMU fans should ask themselves if they are ok with UNT entering the AAC assuming SMU remains. All of the same reasons you are diametrically opposed to UNT coming to the AAC are the same reasons TCU will be opposed to your inclusion in the Big 12.

And, seriously, stop being UTSA. You haven't earned your way into the Big 12 like TCU did.

So just stop...

We have served the probation. Other than a possible APR issue which I've heard will not be an issue, we're fine moving forward.

As for the stadium, we can get it to 45-50K by adding a 2nd deck if that is required. Before TCU's success their attendance was no better than ours. Baylor, too, unless they were playing UT or OU.

I've stated this before, never heard any truth that SMU has tried to keep UNT out of any conference. Even if we did, we simply don't have the power to blackball a school. In fact, our Scout publisher listed his top two schools today to replace UH and Cincy in the AAC and they were UNT and Marshall.

I don't get the UTSA reference, so I guess I've got nothing on that.

Edited August 3, 2016 by MJavierSMU

TheWestie · August 3, 2016

Very disappointed in y'all that the top comment on that editorial is not CJK5H.

1 hour ago, greenminer said:

what recruiting policies were in place that handcuffed program development?

Rules about not being able to buy a recruit a new Trans-Am during their senior year in HS.

TreeFiddy · August 3, 2016

12 minutes ago, TheWestie said:

Very disappointed in y'all that the top comment on that editorial is not CJK5H.

Rules about not being able to buy a recruit a new Trans-Am during their senior year in HS.

Wouldn't surprise me to learn that Dale Hansen is still not allowed to set foot in Dallas Country Club.

UNT90 · August 3, 2016

1 hour ago, MJavierSMU said:

We have served the probation. Other than a possible APR issue which I've heard will not be an issue, we're fine moving forward.

As for the stadium, we can get it to 45-50K by adding a 2nd deck if that is required. Before TCU's success their attendance was no better than ours. Baylor, too, unless they were playing UT or OU.

I've stated this before, never heard any truth that SMU has tried to keep UNT out of any conference. Even if we did, we simply don't have the power to blackball a school. In fact, our Scout publisher listed his top two schools today to replace UH and Cincy in the AAC and they were UNT and Marshall.

I don't get the UTSA reference, so I guess I've got nothing on that.

You don't have the bolded, which is huge.

The UTSA reference was them getting into CUSA based only on a TV market and not EARNING their way by building facilities (and they still haven't). Just like SMU hasn't EARNED a promotion to any P5 by failure to excell at football.

It doesn't matter what your Scout rep thinks, it matters what your President and AD think. I'm not one of the big conspiracy theorist on here and I harbor no ill will toward SMU. I don't even consider us rivals. But it doesn't make sense for the AAC to want UNT when they have SMU. Same for the Big 12, TCU, and SMU.

Win. Then ask for a promotion.

Edited August 3, 2016 by UNT90

ColoradoEagle · August 3, 2016

SMU isn't getting into the Big 12. UNT has a better chance at the Big 12 than SMU. Like 3% chance for UNT versus .01% for SMU. Neither are getting in. If, for some crazy reason, the Big 12 just HAD to have another presence in DFW (not going to happen), they would go with a school that has 37,000 students and the potential to fill a stadium the size of Oklahoma State or Texas Tech. They're not going to go with a small private school that, at their very best (top 5 in the country), might fill a 40,000 seat stadium.

TCU got to where they're at through a perfect storm. They started (massively) winning in football a decade before the Big 12 almost died. To hold that conference together, the schools needed a seat filler who 1) improved the football SOS, 2) had some semblance of fan support, 3) had national football recognition more recent than 1984, and 4) fit within the footprint. SMU only satisfies #4 in that list.

I respect that SMU is aiming high, but anyone who thinks they have a realistic shot is on one.

UNT90 · August 3, 2016

I wonder if other P5 conferences will consider the Big 12 to be the Sun Belt of the P5s after they add 4 non-P5 schools...

MJavierSMU · August 3, 2016

25 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

You don't have the bolded, which is huge.

The UTSA reference was them getting into CUSA based only on a TV market and not EARNING their way by building facilities (and they still haven't). Just like SMU hasn't EARNED a promotion to any P5 by failure to excell at football.

It doesn't matter what your Scout rep thinks, it matters what your President and AD think. I'm not one of the big conspiracy theorist on here and I harbor no ill will toward SMU. I don't even consider us rivals. But is doesn't make sense for the AAC to want UNT when they have SMU. Same for the Big 12, TCU, and SMU.

Win. Then ask for a promotion.

I agree with you. The Big 12 suddenly deciding to expand now is the worst thing for SMU. Unfortunately, we didn't get to choose the timing of the promotion process. We could either sit quietly in the corner and get left behind, or throw a Hail Mary and hope for the best. Of course, we'd prefer this was on the heels of a Houston type season.

You're right that our Scout rep's opinion is meaningless but it I have a couple of contacts in the administration and I've never once heard them say anything about SMU trying to keep UNT out of a conference. Plus, we only have one vote like all of the other schools. Now that TCU has made it back to P5, they have publicly stated they would like to have SMU in their conference again. They know there are a lot of benefits of having a true natural rival in the conference.

UNT90 · August 3, 2016

5 minutes ago, ColoradoEagle said:

SMU isn't getting into the Big 12. UNT has a better chance at the Big 12 than SMU. Like 3% chance for UNT versus .01% for SMU. Neither are getting in. If, for some crazy reason, the Big 12 just HAD to have another presence in DFW (not going to happen), they would go with a school that has 37,000 students and the potential to fill a stadium the size of Oklahoma State or Texas Tech. They're not going to go with a small private school that, at their very best (top 5 in the country), might fill a 40,000 seat stadium.

TCU got to where they're at through a perfect storm. They started (massively) winning in football a decade before the Big 12 almost died. To hold that conference together, the schools needed a seat filler who 1) improved the football SOS, 2) had some semblance of fan support, 3) had national football recognition more recent than 1984, and 4) fit within the footprint. SMU only satisfies #4 in that list.

I respect that SMU is aiming high, but anyone who thinks they have a realistic shot is on one.

Agree with everything you say except UNT's chances, which sit at 0.00% at this time thanks to the last AD.

6 minutes ago, MJavierSMU said:

I agree with you. The Big 12 suddenly deciding to expand now is the worst thing for SMU. Unfortunately, we didn't get to choose the timing of the promotion process. We could either sit quietly in the corner and get left behind, or throw a Hail Mary and hope for the best. Of course, we'd prefer this was on the heels of a Houston type season.

You're right that our Scout rep's opinion is meaningless but it I have a couple of contacts in the administration and I've never once heard them say anything about SMU trying to keep UNT out of a conference. Plus, we only have one vote like all of the other schools. Now that TCU has made it back to P5, they have publicly stated they would like to have SMU in their conference again. They know there are a lot of benefits of having a true natural rival in the conference.

I commend you guys for getting your name out there, just as long as you don't have unrealistic expectations.

I wish UNT had the foresight to do the same. Maybe the new AD does. Time will tell.

Edited August 3, 2016 by UNT90

Ryan Munthe · August 3, 2016

3 hours ago, MJavierSMU said:

I'll argue that we offer zilch. I have no idea why people think SMU basketball is about to tank. It is actually the complete opposite. Our team this year might be our best during this stretch. We have three, possibly four, NBA players on the roster (Shake, Semi, Ben Moore and Sterling Brown who is the brother of former NBAer Shannon Brown). Jank will open the offense up a little more than LB and every game will once again be a sellout. Even though we wont start the season ranked we have been ranked 29 weeks in the past three season and we should add to that.

As for the Big 12, l don't think we get in but we offer a top 25 level basketball program with excellent fan support, planned upgraded facilities in football, another game every other year in football and every year in basketball in Dallas, huge corporate sponsorship possibilities and excellent soccer, golf, volleyball and swimming programs, we do offer a little.

Excellent support built off of one (or two?) seasons of the most cheating HC in business. K. Before that you were begging 2500 to show up, no different than us. Sorry if I'm unimpressed.

Edited August 3, 2016 by Ryan Munthe

FirefightnRick · August 4, 2016

Morris is a Texan and a good man. I have very close, personal friends who grew up with he and his wife and family in east Texas. I wished he didn't coach at SMU but he deserved the HC job.

I'll hate to be rooting against him for one game but hope he does well from that point out.

Rick

Rudy · August 4, 2016

5 hours ago, greenminer said:

what recruiting policies were in place that handcuffed program development?

NCAA limits how many hookers you can kill per recruiting class.

I'd love to know what other P5 conference would even sniff $mut.

4 hours ago, MJavierSMU said:

We have served the probation. Other than a possible APR issue which I've heard will not be an issue, we're fine moving forward.

As for the stadium, we can get it to 45-50K by adding a 2nd deck if that is required. Before TCU's success their attendance was no better than ours. Baylor, too, unless they were playing UT or OU.

I've stated this before, never heard any truth that SMU has tried to keep UNT out of any conference. Even if we did, we simply don't have the power to blackball a school. In fact, our Scout publisher listed his top two schools today to replace UH and Cincy in the AAC and they were UNT and Marshall.

I don't get the UTSA reference, so I guess I've got nothing on that.

Next step is FILLING said 45K seat stadium.

NT91 · August 4, 2016

Will SMU pull out of the NT yearly game if they move to the 12?

Edited August 4, 2016 by NT91

UNT90 · August 4, 2016

22 minutes ago, NT91 said:

Will SMU pull out of the NT yearly game if they move to the 12?

They have an option to opt out after next year, move to the Big 12 or not.

Ben Gooding · August 4, 2016

2 hours ago, FirefightnRick said:

Morris is a Texan and a good man. I have very close, personal friends who grew up with he and his wife and family in east Texas. I wished he didn't coach at SMU but he deserved the HC job.

I'll hate to be rooting against him for one game but hope he does well from that point out.

Rick

Ugh. No. Good man or not, he's smug. I hope he goes 0-12 every season while there. I'll root for him when he's back OC'ing somewhere.

33 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

They have an option to opt out after next year, move to the Big 12 or not.

We have the same option, no? And I'm at the point of if they can't bring more than 500 nose raised fans then opt out. Bring in a regional fan base that will travel to us like, check out this crazy concept, like we travel to them. Whoa.

untjim1995 · August 4, 2016

SMU is not going to ever be in a power conference. Ever. The AAC is as good as it gets for them. Granted, we have never had anything close to what they have had in conference setups (ever), but their alumni and students don't give a rats ass about measuring themselves against schools like us. They are all SWC arrogant SOBs that are still pissed at:

1. The Texas media who broke their story about having a payroll in the 80s, just to have a great football team (how ridiculous). They were basically Baylor-esque in that they didn't care about rules or laws, just wanted to tell other SWC fans how much better they were because they won at football.

2. The NCAA for using them as a piece of trash that they disposed of and used as a trial balloon to see what would happen if a school lost its program. It was so devastating that they will never issue it again. But make no mistake, it was very deserved.

3. The Big XII for originally gutting the SWC and leaving them forever on the outside of big time power conference football.

4. TCU--once the Frogs starting getting good in football in the late 90s, they made it abundantly clear that they never wanted to ever be in a conference with SMU again--and they haven't. Leave WAC and SMU for CUSA, then leave CUSA after they admitted SMU to go to the MWC. Then they leave for the Big East and before SMU can weasel there way into the conference, TCU bolts for the Big XII and the Big East falls apart to be the AAC.

I don't care who at Belo owned media outlets or in Dallas leadership think that SMU should get added to the Big XII. As long as UT, OU, and TCU are in the conference, not to mention Tech and Baylor, SMU won't be there--the Big XII owns DFW already. They aren't going to water down the league with another small school to feed. There's a reason the SWC broke up--too many small schools and lack of attendance to make the bigger SWC schools want to stick around.

SMU just holds a place on the FBS totem pole higher than us. That is all because of their SWC history, their money, and their Dallas media hyping them up. We have never had any of that and never will.