If MWC loses a team, UNT could be in play...

Ben Gooding · July 25, 2016

1 minute ago, UNT90 said:

I'm going strictly by football reputation.

Even then. Every publication I have ever come across has CUSA above the MAC as a football conference. You could link them to one another if there was differentiating opinions across the media that covers all 10 FBS conferences. There isn't. CUSA is always held to a higher regard.

Aldo · July 25, 2016

Went to ESPN's preseason FPI list for all 128 schools, copied into Excel, did a pivot table. Voila. Hopefully the formatting stays.

Ordered by average rank of school by conference.

Conference	Avg Rank	Avg SOS	Avg FPI
SEC	24.50	20.79	14.36
Pac-12	35.00	21.50	10.06
ACC	36.57	32.86	10.41
Big 12	38.70	35.80	9.59
Big Ten	46.86	52.93	7.11
FBS Indep.	70.75	68.00	-0.73
American	79.17	76.25	-2.27
MW	87.08	88.25	-4.44
MAC	95.42	101.83	-6.73
C-USA	104.08	114.23	-10.10
Sun Belt	105.64	108.64	-10.40

ETA: Looking at the drop off between P5 and G5 is yuge!

Edited July 25, 2016 by Aldo

greenjoe · July 25, 2016

I was always told, albeit, by the previous AD people, that traveling west into the Western Time Zone was hard on the traveling team. That it was hard on the fans and newspaper coverage would often be delayed a day because of the later start times (compared with local time). A 6:00pm kickoff in Denton time would be an 8:00 kickoff in western time making a game that should be over about 9:30pm here over at 11:30pm. Too late for many and certainly too late to be on my lawn by 6:00 the next morning.

That's not so say I don't like the teams in the MWC better and that I think the MWC would be a perceived step up for NT.

UNT90 · July 25, 2016

16 minutes ago, greenjoe said:

I was always told, albeit, by the previous AD people, that traveling west into the Western Time Zone was hard on the traveling team. That it was hard on the fans and newspaper coverage would often be delayed a day because of the later start times (compared with local time). A 6:00pm kickoff in Denton time would be an 8:00 kickoff in western time making a game that should be over about 9:30pm here over at 11:30pm. Too late for many and certainly too late to be on my lawn by 6:00 the next morning.

That's not so say I don't like the teams in the MWC better and that I think the MWC would be a perceived step up for NT.

Well, since newspapers are all but obsolete and most people get their news in almost real time via an Internet news source, a lot of times being Internet feeds from those same newspapers, I'd say this is a very 1990s argument.

So I'm not surprised at all that the last AD made this argument.

MeanGreen_MBA · July 25, 2016

17 minutes ago, greenjoe said:

I was always told, albeit, by the previous AD people, that traveling west into the Western Time Zone was hard on the traveling team. That it was hard on the fans and newspaper coverage would often be delayed a day because of the later start times (compared with local time). A 6:00pm kickoff in Denton time would be an 8:00 kickoff in western time making a game that should be over about 9:30pm here over at 11:30pm. Too late for many and certainly too late to be on my lawn by 6:00 the next morning.

That's not so say I don't like the teams in the MWC better and that I think the MWC would be a perceived step up for NT.

A 6pm Kick-off in Denton is a 4pm kick-off out West.....Now, if kick-off was 8pm West, that would put it 10pm here in Denton....that would be tough....

MeanGreenTexan · July 25, 2016

10 minutes ago, greenjoe said:

I was always told, albeit, by the previous AD people, that traveling west into the Western Time Zone was hard on the traveling team. That it was hard on the fans and newspaper coverage would often be delayed a day because of the later start times (compared with local time). A 6:00pm kickoff in Denton time would be an 8:00 kickoff in western time making a game that should be over about 9:30pm here over at 11:30pm. Too late for many and certainly too late to be on my lawn by 6:00 the next morning.

That's not so say I don't like the teams in the MWC better and that I think the MWC would be a perceived step up for NT.

Today, worrying about the newspaper is akin to worrying about a VCR. It's not necessary because it's antiquated. You can get scores/information instantly now. Travelling anywhere far is going to be hard on the team that travels. It's going to be just as hard for UNT to fly to San Diego & play as it would be for Fresno State flying to DFW to play us. Good thing we should have 6 home games a year and only need to go that far west maybe 5 times.

It's not easy and comfortable, like having 3 teams 4 hours away, but consider the ROI... If you are a 10-win C-USA champ, you might crack the top 25. If you're a 10-win MWC champ, you're likely knocking on the door of the top 10.

DeepGreen · July 25, 2016

Listen up people. YES, today's AAC may be a better option than the MWC. But the point is, with the B12 movement, the AAC is too volatile.

And yes, the MWC game times, late night TV coverage, and fan travel is all a problem. TCU sure didn't mind. Look where all of the conference changing got them.

Edited July 25, 2016 by DeepGreen

UNT90 · July 25, 2016

14 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Today, worrying about the newspaper is akin to worrying about a VCR. It's not necessary because it's antiquated. You can get scores/information instantly now. Travelling anywhere far is going to be hard on the team that travels. It's going to be just as hard for UNT to fly to San Diego & play as it would be for Fresno State flying to DFW to play us. Good thing we should have 6 home games a year and only need to go that far west maybe 5 times.

It's not easy and comfortable, like having 3 teams 4 hours away, but consider the ROI... If you are a 10-win C-USA champ, you might crack the top 25. If you're a 10-win MWC champ, you're likely knocking on the door of the top 10.

So much this.

2 minutes ago, DeepGreen said:

Look where commitment to athletics by the administration, students, faculty, and the City of Fort Worth got them.

Fixed.

Meanwhile in Denton, the city wants the 2nd in command at THE WORST AD IN COLLEGE FOOTBALL to take over for the guy that left. And this is supported by some members of the BOR and the faculty at UNT?

And we wonder why UNT is a perennial loser and the butt of jokes everywhere.

Aldo · July 25, 2016

22 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

If you're a 10-win MWC champ, you're likely knocking on the door of the top 10.

Tell that to San Diego State. Went on a 10-week win streak. 11-3 and beat Cincy in Hawaii Bowl 42-7.

ETA: MWC Champs.

Edited July 25, 2016 by Aldo

MeanGreenTexan · July 25, 2016

2 minutes ago, DeepGreen said:

Listen up people. YES, today's AAC may be a better option than the MWC. But the point is, with the B12 movement, the AAC is too volatile.

And yes, the MWC game times, late night TV coverage, and fan travel is all a problem. TCU sure didn't mind. Look where all of the conference changing got them.

AAC more volitile than C-USA? The only reason they may be on the same level is due to teams leaving C-USA to join them, or teams jumping up to bigger/better things (potentially).

Agree on TCU. They rode success in the old WAC up to the MWC... then success in the MWC up to the big12. It would be nice, but I'm afraid we have to win in C-USA first before we could win in the MWC... then in the big12.

golfingomez · July 25, 2016

4 minutes ago, DeepGreen said:

Listen up people. YES, today's AAC may be a better option than the MWC. But the point is, with the B12 movement, the AAC is too volatile.

And yes, the MWC game times, late night TV coverage, and fan travel is all a problem. TCU sure didn't mind. Look where all of the conference changing got them.

This is what I was going to talk about. Aside from being someone who always enjoyed the teams in the MWC, enjoyed the late night games, enjoyed the thought of travelling to those games... The MWC is a much more stable conference than anything that isn't a P5. it's rare for a team to get poached because the PAC isn't expanding anytime soon, and it's not in a position to keep shuffling the deck like the Big 12, MAC, CUSA, AAC and Sun-Belt do. I vote MWC...

NOW WHO'S WITH ME???

MeanGreenTexan · July 25, 2016

3 minutes ago, golfingomez said:

This is what I was going to talk about. Aside from being someone who always enjoyed the teams in the MWC, enjoyed the late night games, enjoyed the thought of travelling to those games... The MWC is a much more stable conference than anything that isn't a P5. it's rare for a team to get poached because the PAC isn't expanding anytime soon, and it's not in a position to keep shuffling the deck like the Big 12, MAC, CUSA, AAC and Sun-Belt do. I vote MWC...

NOW WHO'S WITH ME???

DeepGreen · July 25, 2016

6 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

AAC more volitile than C-USA? The only reason they may be on the same level is due to teams leaving C-USA to join them, or teams jumping up to bigger/better things (potentially).

Agree on TCU. They rode success in the old WAC up to the MWC... then success in the MWC up to the big12. It would be nice, but I'm afraid we have to win in C-USA first before we could win in the MWC... then in the big12.

When other P5 conferences look for expansion candidates, who in CUSA have they gone after? Zero, nada. They look to the AAC. Period. I call that volitile. CUSA simply plugs in for the lost AAC members. What happens when all of the good teams have been poached from the AAC? Who's left? It will eventually be CUSA2. Or, CUSA3.

Mad Hatter · July 25, 2016

Fun to think about, but I don't think we're going anywhere for a while unless we start winning at something.

MeanGreenTexan · July 25, 2016

16 minutes ago, DeepGreen said:

When other P5 conferences look for expansion candidates, who in CUSA have they gone after? Zero, nada. They look to the AAC. Period. I call that volitile. CUSA simply plugs in for the lost AAC members. What happens when all of the good teams have been poached from the AAC? Who's left? It will eventually be CUSA2. Or, CUSA3.

Would you rather be in the conference that the P5 conferences poach from? Or would you rather be in C-USA? BTW... Utah was poached from MWC to join PAC12. And technically, no one has poached the AAC yet. So they're really all volatile.

wardly · July 25, 2016

I don't see the MWC in play for a seat at the Big 12 table. Even if CSU was invited, UTEP would take their place. I also don't see why any conference other that CUSA or the Belt would want us, as we bring nothing to the table. North Texas is a non factor in DFW sports, has worse team in Division 1 football, and not much of a men's basketball program. You can put lipstick on a pig, but at the end of the day it's still a pig.

MeanGreenTexan · July 25, 2016

3 minutes ago, wardly said:

I don't see the MWC in play for a seat at the Big 12 table. Even if CSU was invited, UTEP would take their place. I also don't see why any conference other that CUSA or the Belt would want us, as we bring nothing to the table. North Texas is a non factor in DFW sports, has worse team in Division 1 football, and not much of a men's basketball program. You can put lipstick on a pig, but at the end of the day it's still a pig.

This is reality for us right now. Sad. Things can turn in a hurry though. All we can do is hope.

TreeFiddy · July 25, 2016

UH was terrible not too long ago. Baylor was a laughing stock. KState was horrible. Our history does not have to be repeated or define our future. If substantial changes are made then it is possible to change our direction. I believe there have been substantial changes in the last 5 years. New stadium, new president, 2 new HC, new AD. Institutional support at levels never before seen.

This is not the same ol' same ol'. I am in fact expecting different results.

UTSA Fan · July 25, 2016

I don't know.... I would say whatever makes $ense. I don't remember hearing anyone say that team is amazing but we can't invite them because they are i x conference, or, they are really bad, but, we have to ask because they are in y conference.

risinggreen · July 25, 2016

For those worried about late start times in the MWC, just how many late games are we talking about here? Maybe one or two per season? Just glancing at CSU's 2015 schedule, they only played one game last season that started after 6:30 CST, and that was an 8:00 CST start at Fresno. I think I can keep my eyes open that late on a Saturday night in exchange for the benefit of a conference upgrade. They play quite a few day games out there.

UNTexas · July 26, 2016

There was a time not all that long ago when I would have preferred CUSA but CUSA is a different league now. MWC is a better conference now. Perception anyway...

southsideguy · July 26, 2016

step goes, they were left behind when the mwc formed. UNM rival and good traveling partner, they use to travel together in basketball in the past. Time zone is right for them. Besides everyone wants to eat at Chico Tacos for some unknown reason.

greenminer · July 26, 2016

47 minutes ago, UNTexas said:

There was a time not all that long ago when I would have preferred CUSA but CUSA is a different league now. MWC is a better conference now. Perception anyway...

Personally, I'm not excited about the burden of travel the MWC presents to UNT.

UNTexas · July 26, 2016

15 minutes ago, greenminer said:

Personally, I'm not excited about the burden of travel the MWC presents to UNT.

When we were in the Big West in the 90s we traveled out that way all the time. MWC has much better programs than those days too. As a player everyone was just upset when we couldn't buy beer when the busses got back to Denton because it was later. (Yes, college players drink beer after games sometimes.) As a fan, I like the distance of several CUSA opponents but the MWC would be better for the University. There's a reason TCU jumped ship on CUSA for MWC. I don't know if it matters in the long run. I'd like to see us in the AAC or MWC because CUSA is essentially the Sunbelt.

risinggreen · July 26, 2016

9 minutes ago, greenminer said:

Personally, I'm not excited about the burden of travel the MWC presents to UNT.

Other than San Antonio, Houston, and Ruston, isn't our travel burden pretty much the same, or even worse in some ways, than it would be in the MWC? We would have 4 long driveable MWC destinations (or maybe 5 if a UT junior or Rice joined us), while our current conference mates aren't exactly close other than the aforementioned 3. I admit to being biased because I do love to ski.