MGB: UNT paying consultants $20,000 to evaluate program

UNT Mean Green · July 26, 2016

4 hours ago, meanrob said:

I wouldn't. In fact I'd question what my authority truly was and the changes I'd be able to make. What if the audit says the ticket manager and marketing (just an example) is great but the new AD already has other people in mind for that position? How does a business consultant know how an athletic department operates? Our athletic department doesn't even know how a good athletic department operates. That's why we are hiring somebody to come in and fix it.

The only way this makes any sense if the audit is financial in nature. Otherwise it seems pointless to me. There's no way we are hiring a business consultant who is the son of one of our donors to come in and try to fix an athletic department. On the cheap no less.

Trying to not get worked up over something that is probably nothing, but this whole thing is off to a lousy start in my opinion. Just make a good hire and let the man or woman do their job. This thing won't get fixed overnight.

The department has been a disaster for several years, with the same leadership for 15+ of those. For a mere $20,000 to get two "independent consultants" to come in and conduct a department audit is a great concept, and a way to identify the major issues and priorities for the next leader of this department to correct. These two gentlemen know what success looks like, and they understand business.

From a practical standpoint - It's very simple really - this department is a $35,000,000 / year business. Finding out where the opportunities are by talking with staff, coaches, fans, letterman is the only way to get the facts out on the table; and identify the key areas to address for the new leadership.

untjim1995 · July 26, 2016

On July 22, 2016 at 10:16 AM, MeanGreenMailbox said:

I've got to get into the sports consulting business. Who wants to go with me?

$20,000.

Sheesh. Harry's site here should give them all the insight they need...and, they'd be getting it free. They should pay Harry $20,000 for already having the information on this site that the consultants will eventually come up with.

College administrators - athletic or academic, it seems - throw money out the window for obvious answers.

Here's your $20,000 answers dumbsh*t AD guys:
(1) We don't win enough, so
(2) People don't attend, and
(3) Alumni don't give to the athletic department, so
(4) We don't have any money or leverage in negotiating anything! Conferences, marketing, scheduling, etc.
(5) SEE #1

Crazy. Are they really so f*cking dumb in our AD that they have to pay someone $20,000 to tell them what everyone who follows the program already knows?

The quick answer to your question is yes they are...but the hope is that it finally changes.

BTW, winning the SBC four times in a row didn't change much in terms of support or attention, nor did Mac's 2013 team lead to anything the next season, as we actually LOST season ticket holders.

What we don't know is if winning will really change anything substantially in terms of attendance, donations, or media coverage. It hasn't before, but we have done so much losing and playing nobodies to the local fans and media, it's easy to see how we have gotten where we are...without spending $20k.

Aldo · July 26, 2016

17 hours ago, meanrob said:

What if the audit says the ticket manager and marketing (just an example) is great but the new AD already has other people in mind for that position?

I mean, it's not like he'd be bound to it.

Also, it's likely not being done for the new director. It's more likely for the president (a very "hands on" president) and BOR. But a thorough review of the organization would likely come in handy for the new director.

The financial audit is obviously important too, but I was just speaking from what I've seen in the past in other UNT departments in regards to consultants coming in to see how an organization is functioning to recommend goal/structure/duty changes.

Ben Gooding · July 26, 2016

12 hours ago, untjim1995 said:

The quick answer to your question is yes they are...but the hope is that it finally changes.

BTW, winning the SBC four times in a row didn't change much in terms of support or attention, nor did Mac's 2013 team lead to anything the next season, as we actually LOST season ticket holders.

What we don't know is if winning will really change anything substantially in terms of attendance, donations, or media coverage. It hasn't before, but we have done so much losing and playing nobodies to the local fans and media, it's easy to see how we have gotten where we are...without spending $20k.

I think winning the belt in the early 00's is a bad barometer of success association. I was in high school during the early 00's. I grew up in Southern Arkansas. I heard of the Mean Green growing up. But the exposure for G5's during that time frame was so miniscule, those championships didn't move a needle and that doesn't have anything to do with the athletic administration, though I'm sure they didn't help their own cause. If a program were to win their conference 4 years in a row NOW, I think the publicity would be extremely high and there would be a substantial uptick from attendance, student applications, recruiting, MGC numbers, etc. You can bring up 2013 as a, "Nu huh, look at 2013." But most know the jury was still out on Mac mainly due to philosophy and recruiting to that point.

FirefightnRick · July 26, 2016

On July 22, 2016 at 11:54 AM, GrandGreen said:

I hope this consulting group is a lot more useful than Stallings. Other than the obvious, Trilli is a disaster; little of what Stallings' offered was new or helpful. Stallings view coming from the A&M world which was so far from the state of NT athletics at the time, that his comments and recommendations had little value.

Your kidding, right?

We paid one of the few remaining legendary living coaches around $17K to come in a give us an unbiased, professional opinion and he did just that. He shed light on some major blights in our department that needed addressing.

One desperate need he suggested we address that Dickey was able to take advantage of was a location large enough to have a whole team meeting.

Our very own poster MoGreen then immediately stepped up to the plate and wrote a $100K check to get that done.

Result? 4 conference championships and bowl appearances.

Rick

Edited July 26, 2016 by FirefightnRick

Eagle-96 · July 26, 2016

9 minutes ago, FirefightnRick said:

Your kidding, right?

We paid one of the few remaining legendary living coaches around $17K to come in a give us an unbiased, professional opinion and he did just that. He shed light on some major blights in our department that needed addressing.

One desperate need he suggested we address that Dickey was able to take advantage of was a location large enough to have a whole team meeting.

Our very own poster MoGreen then immediately stepped up to the plate and wrote a $100K check to get that done.

Result? 4 conference championships and bowl appearances.

Rick

If my memory serves me, didn't he also attend a hoops game(against a D2 or NAIA school) one night during the process and promptly ask anyone who would listen: "Why in the world are you playing a school at this level?" You have NOTHING to gain from that!" Very candid with his assessment I believe.

Edited July 26, 2016 by Eagle-96

FirefightnRick · July 26, 2016

24 minutes ago, Eagle-96 said:

If my memory serves me, didn't he also attend a hoops game(against a D2 or NAIA school) one night during the process and promptly ask anyone who would listen: "Why in the world are you playing a school at this level?" You have NOTHING to gain from that!" Very candid with his assessment I believe.

He mentioned it in his report in front of a couple hundred of us listening. He explained how we were losing to a school that didn't have scholarships and said something to the fact of.."Folks...I attended a men's basketball game the other night,..and at halftime you were losing to a school that didn't even have scholarships...Come on now,..you can't have that?!!!". Head basketball coach Vic Trilli was standing in the back of the room.

Everyone was laughing. And I applauded because finally someone with Stallings reputation and respect from the college athletic world was calling it like it was in front of the powers that be.

Rick

Edited July 26, 2016 by FirefightnRick

untjim1995 · July 26, 2016

4 hours ago, FirefightnRick said:

He mentioned it in his report in front of a couple hundred of us listening. He explained how we were losing to a school that didn't have scholarships and said something to the fact of.."Folks...I attended a men's basketball game the other night,..and at halftime you were losing to a school that didn't even have scholarships...Come on now,..you can't have that?!!!". Head basketball coach Vic Trilli was standing in the back of the room.

Everyone was laughing. And I applauded because finally someone with Stallings reputation and respect from the college athletic world was calling it like it was in front of the powers that be.

Rick

Imagine how he'd feel about Benford...

GrandGreen · July 27, 2016

5 hours ago, FirefightnRick said:

Your kidding, right?

We paid one of the few remaining legendary living coaches around $17K to come in a give us an unbiased, professional opinion and he did just that. He shed light on some major blights in our department that needed addressing.

One desperate need he suggested we address that Dickey was able to take advantage of was a location large enough to have a whole team meeting.

Our very own poster MoGreen then immediately stepped up to the plate and wrote a $100K check to get that done.

Result? 4 conference championships and bowl appearances.

Rick

No one knew Trilli was a bad coach and NT lacked even the basic facilities.

Most of what Stallings recommended was obvious and/or completely out of reach for a struggling very under-funded program.

However, if he moved MoGreen to make that very nice contribution, you are obviously right; he was very beneficial.

TreeFiddy · July 27, 2016

2 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

No one knew Trilli was a bad coach and NT lacked even the basic facilities.

Most of what Stallings recommended was obvious and/or completely out of reach for a struggling very under-funded program.

However, if he moved MoGreen to make that very nice contribution, you are obviously right; he was very beneficial.

The difference is that the person deliver g the message matters. It isn't that they are delivering a completely different message, but the fact that they have skins on the wall. Consultants have been used for years and will continue to be used because they bring an outside perspective.

untjim1995 · July 27, 2016

1 hour ago, GrandGreen said:

No one knew Trilli was a bad coach and NT lacked even the basic facilities.

Most of what Stallings recommended was obvious and/or completely out of reach for a struggling very under-funded program.

However, if he moved MoGreen to make that very nice contribution, you are obviously right; he was very beneficial.

That was Trilli's last year here. He was well on his way to giving us 4 wins in his last year after not being fired after his third colossally bad year. Everyone knew he was a terrible coach...much like we know Benford is a terrible coach.

UNTMPA · July 27, 2016

Those contracts stipulate that Kuehne and Sicuro “examine and assess the resources, staffing and facilities of the UNT Athletics Department, making a full report to the UNT President.

I suspect this will be a more "Objective Review" of the AD, rather than stating the obvious. The data probably will include assessments on how resources are allocated relative to other "Like Schools" (G5). Things like recruiting budgets and number of coaches funded for each sport, how NT's budget compares to WKU (all sports),. adequacy of Sports Medicine support to each sport, etc...

wardly · July 29, 2016

I thought Stallings was paid $50,000, but will defer to Firefighting Rick's better memory. Gene did get a few changes made that seemed big at the time.I think our new President will take the "K&S" report and run with it. Also,$20,000 is chickenfeed for the body of work they are expected to have produced, and likely doesn't even cover their expenses.

RushnStudies · July 31, 2016

On Wednesday, July 27, 2016 at 10:02 AM, UNTMPA said:

Those contracts stipulate that Kuehne and Sicuro “examine and assess the resources, staffing and facilities of the UNT Athletics Department, making a full report to the UNT President.

I suspect this will be a more "Objective Review" of the AD, rather than stating the obvious. The data probably will include assessments on how resources are allocated relative to other "Like Schools" (G5). Things like recruiting budgets and number of coaches funded for each sport, how NT's budget compares to WKU (all sports),. adequacy of Sports Medicine support to each sport, etc...

This is exactly the type of review that was requested; objective and comprehensive. My understanding is that's what has been/is being provided to the Prez/etc.