Big 12 To Water Down Its Conference Further With 2-4 More Teams

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF · July 21, 2016

9 minutes ago, oldguystudent said:

Wait. What? UTEP got in over us because WE didn't have a baseball program? How's that Miner baseball program working out?

It's a sham excuse.

Edited July 21, 2016 by MeanGreenMailbox

Ryan Munthe · July 21, 2016

29 minutes ago, greenminer said:

A couple things come to mind:

1) the assumption that Houston would fail in the Bug XII is just that: an assumption. I read the same sentiment about TCU as they made the leap.

2) you could substitute UNT/AAC in the above statement, and you'd sound like a snooty SMU associate trying to keep UNT out of their conference.

look, I don't like Houston, and i get grossed out just thinking of their city, but I've read this "Houston offers nothing" sentiment for 10 years. But they keep winning, and moving up. It makes those posters look kinda nutty and disconnected.

UH's problem has always been support. It will continue to be their problem, much like it is our problem. Both schools have a pedigree of being commuter colleges, but are no longer, and are now both Tier One. Both are the big public universities in huge cities. Houston is vastly more successful athletically than we are, though. And they still have turnout issues.

I live here. The sports media here doesn't respect UH (see Herman's meltdown on the radio) and Houston as a whole is not focused on college football. Houston may very well get the call. But I think they have a lot of challenges ahead...mainly that they struggle to attract 30K fans in the fourth largest city in America that they are centrally located in, with next to no competition on Saturdays. That has always held UH back, and I think it will continue to hold UH back. UH keeps winning, yes, but hasn't moved up. The AAC now is the CUSA they were in before.

In addition, UH's neighborhood holds them back, as well. Not a lot of hotels nearby, serious safety issues, and cramped tailgating. Their basketball program is in dire straits, as well. And as much as UH has improved academically, they're leagues behind most of the other members (yes, even Tech) in the rankings that people read.

Houston offers Big 12 a strong foothold in a market that is ripe for the picking. If UH gets the call it'll be the Big 12 trying to keep the SEC out.

Edited July 21, 2016 by Ryan Munthe

VideoEagle · July 21, 2016

9 minutes ago, oldguystudent said:

Wait. What? UTEP got in over us because WE didn't have a baseball program? How's that Miner baseball program working out?

I remember facilities, primarily Fouts, being the primary reason. Baseball might have contributed, but Fouts was the big problem. As far as SMUs power to pick and choose conference members, they backed La Tech which was passed over as well.

I do do not understand the Big XII wanting to for to 14 as any combination of the suggested additions will only create a net decline in the overall strength of the conference. They can add two and maybe stay the same, but four lowers the overall strength. And based on the current strength they were shown to have a 60% chance of getting a team in the CFP. Why would they lower their chances at that?

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF · July 21, 2016

7 minutes ago, Ryan Munthe said:

UH's problem has always been support. It will continue to be their problem, much like it is our problem. Both schools have a pedigree of being commuter colleges, but are no longer, and are now both Tier One. Both are the big public universities in huge cities. Houston is vastly more successful athletically than we are, though. And they still have turnout issues.

I live here. The sports media here doesn't respect UH (see Herman's meltdown on the radio) and Houston as a whole is not focused on college football. Houston may very well get the call. But I think they have a lot of challenges ahead...mainly that they struggle to attract 30K fans in the fourth largest city in America that they are centrally located in, with next to no competition on Saturdays. That has always held UH back, and I think it will continue to hold UH back. UH keeps winning, yes, but hasn't moved up. The AAC now is the CUSA they were in before.

In addition, UH's neighborhood holds them back, as well. Not a lot of hotels nearby, serious safety issues, and cramped tailgating. Their basketball program is in dire straits, as well. And as much as UH has improved academically, they're leagues behind most of the other members (yes, even Tech) in the rankings that people read.

Houston offers Big 12 a strong foothold in a market that is ripe for the picking. If UH gets the call it'll be the Big 12 trying to keep the SEC out.

NEWSFLASH: SEC is already there in the form of Texas A&M and LSU.

Ryan Munthe · July 21, 2016

5 minutes ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

NEWSFLASH: SEC is already there in the form of Texas A&M and LSU.

No shit, Sherlock. However, UT and Tech also have strong footholds here. If Houston could ever hit their potential as a program, Big 12 would have more muscle in Houston.

What I'm suggesting is that the Big 12 would rather not have Houston turn into Atlanta, where SEC football is bigger than the NFL, despite Atlanta being in the middle of ACC country. That's why B12 grabbed TCU.

Edited July 21, 2016 by Ryan Munthe

NTXCoog · July 21, 2016

8 hours ago, Ryan Munthe said:

My math skills are equal to your reading skills. (I said 0% chance UH gets in before BYU or Cincy.)

Also the radio silence on the whole Men's basketball thing is amusing.

If your coach can't handle Ticket-lite in Houston he'll get eaten up by B12 media but that's none of my business.

Oh, and stay safe when visiting your alma mater, buddy. Dangerous out there in the tre.

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/amp/Gunfire-leaves-man-dead-in-Third-Ward-8397591.php?

Radio silence on men's basketball? What do you want to hear? We're building. We came in 3rd in the conference last year (tied with Cincy), had 22 wins, beat conference champ Temple, #2 SMU, and #3 Cincy, and went to the NIT. Last made the tournament in 2010. Many predicting UH to go to the tournament this year. Just opened the $25 million Guy V Lewis Basketball Development Facility and the $60 million renovation to Hofheinz will be ready to go in 2018. Kelvin Sampson is a great basketball coach. With his coaching and the new facilities, I expect big things in the near future. I expect the attendance to bump too with both the wins and new facilities. Is that what you want to know?

Dangerous at UH? I assume you want to say that UT is dangerous too with their rape and murder actually on campus instead of a few blocks away. Hell, didn't UNT police have to kill a hatchet wielding student on campus this year?

Ryan Munthe · July 21, 2016

5 minutes ago, NTXCoog said:

On Twitter today: @GregAbbott_TX
Big 12 expansion is a non-starter unless it includes University of Houston.

Radio silence on men's basketball? What do you want to hear? We're building. We came in 3rd in the conference last year (tied with Cincy), had 22 wins, beat conference champ Temple, #2 SMU, and #3 Cincy, and went to the NIT. Last made the tournament in 2010. Many predicting UH to go to the tournament this year. Just opened the $25 million Guy V Lewis Basketball Development Facility and the $60 million renovation to Hofheinz will be ready to go in 2018. Kelvin Sampson is a great basketball coach. With his coaching and the new facilities, I expect big things in the near future. I expect the attendance to bump too with both the wins and new facilities. Is that what you want to know?

Dangerous at UH? I assume you want to say that UT is dangerous too with their rape and murder actually on campus instead of a few blocks away. Hell, didn't UNT police have to kill a hatchet wielding student on campus this year?

FBI data puts the Third Ward as the fifteenth most dangerous neighborhood in the country, but keep burying your head in the sand, if you're really going to try to compare a neighborhood where you have a 1 in 13 chance of being a victim to Denton--then there's no point in arguing with you.

Edited July 21, 2016 by Ryan Munthe

NTXCoog · July 21, 2016

25 minutes ago, Ryan Munthe said:

7.5

UH's problem has always been support. It will continue to be their problem, much like it is our problem. Both schools have a pedigree of being commuter colleges, but are no longer, and are now both Tier One. Both are the big public universities in huge cities. Houston is vastly more successful athletically than we are, though. And they still have turnout issues.

I live here. The sports media here doesn't respect UH (see Herman's meltdown on the radio) and Houston as a whole is not focused on college football. Houston may very well get the call. But I think they have a lot of challenges ahead...mainly that they struggle to attract 30K fans in the fourth largest city in America that they are centrally located in, with next to no competition on Saturdays. That has always held UH back, and I think it will continue to hold UH back. UH keeps winning, yes, but hasn't moved up. The AAC now is the CUSA they were in before.

In addition, UH's neighborhood holds them back, as well. Not a lot of hotels nearby, serious safety issues, and cramped tailgating. Their basketball program is in dire straits, as well. And as much as UH has improved academically, they're leagues behind most of the other members (yes, even Tech) in the rankings that people read.

Houston offers Big 12 a strong foothold in a market that is ripe for the picking. If UH gets the call it'll be the Big 12 trying to keep the SEC out.

34k isn't exactly struggling to hit 30k. And that's with a stupid Thursday night game against SMU at the same time the Houston Texans play 5 miles away. There will be no struggle this year at all. Already 22.5k season tickets sold, throw in 7.5k student attendance and the Little Coogs program and we're averaging 30+k without selling another ticket for the rest of the season.

Ryan Munthe · July 21, 2016

2 minutes ago, NTXCoog said:

34k isn't exactly struggling to hit 30k. And that's with a stupid Thursday night game against SMU at the same time the Houston Texans play 5 miles away. There will be no struggle this year at all. Already 22.5k season tickets sold, throw in 7.5k student attendance and the Little Coogs program and we're averaging 30+k without selling another ticket for the rest of the season.

I agree, there should be no struggle this year for UH.

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF · July 21, 2016

7 minutes ago, Ryan Munthe said:

No shit, Sherlock. However, UT and Tech also have strong footholds here. If Houston could ever hit their potential as a program, Big 12 would have more muscle in Houston.

What I'm suggesting is that the Big 12 would rather not have Houston turn into Atlanta, where SEC football is bigger than the NFL, despite Atlanta being in the middle of ACC country. That's why B12 grabbed TCU.

What kind of a dream world are you living in? TCU controls no media market. And, the Big 12 is certainly no threat in the Dallas/Fort Worth market to the Dallas Cowboys or NFL no matter whom they add.

Ryan Munthe · July 21, 2016

3 minutes ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

What kind of a dream world are you living in? TCU controls no media market. And, the Big 12 is certainly no threat in the Dallas/Fort Worth market to the Dallas Cowboys or NFL no matter whom they add.

How does it feel to literally never read anything you respond to?

Also--TCU controlling no media market lol

I'm retiring from this thread. TFLF can't read and NTXCoog just tried to tell me that the 15th most dangerous neighborhood is no different than Denton.

Lost cause.

Edited July 21, 2016 by Ryan Munthe

NTXCoog · July 21, 2016

1 hour ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

That's true in one sense: Iowa State averaged over 56,000 per home game; about double what Houston brings. Houston's stadium doesn't even hold 56,000. It doesn't even hold 46,000.

Competitively, Houston would sink to the level of an Iowa State in the Big 12...without the benefit of at least having decent attendance.

In short, Houston is good being a "big fish" in their small pond. But, their overall athletics add nothing to a bigger conference.

The funny thing is, we have all these threads about attendance. However, Houston is proof that you can have a new stadium and win, but still not fill it up.

Houston is a duckfart of an athletic program. They graduated the majority of last years starters from their football squad. Beginning with the OU game in the opener, they will struggle like all duckfart programs do.

That the Big 12 might take them shows nothing but what a desperate bind the Big 12 is in when compared to the other P5s.

I won't even put in the UNT comparison due to respect to other posters.

Graduated the majority of last year's starters? 12-14 starters return depending on how you calculate it. That's not a majority. More importantly, the most important player QB Greg Ward is back. So the leading passer, rusher, and TD scorer is back. Leading WR and RB are gone, but 2nd leading receiver Oregon transfer Chance Allen is back and 4 star WR Courtney Lark is joining the team. So many injuries at RB last year, but 4 star UT transfer Duke Catalon will likely do well, he's preseason 2nd team all conference. Many of the lost starters were on the OL, but most of them were injured last year anyway. We had 4 OL injured at one time, and the true freshman back ups as well as a converted DL did a pretty nice job last year, good enough to beat 4 ranked teams. Now they'll be the leaders and have great game experience even if they weren't considered starters.

Biggest concern is with the lost DBs including a 1st round draft pick, although we have a 2nd team all conference player returning there. The good news is almost all of the great DL is back plus add 5 star Ed Oliver and returning all conference LB and conference sack leader Steven Taylor, hopefully they'll make it an easier transition for the DBs.

UH may lose to OU. Most teams do. We may not. But if losing to OU makes you a duckfart program, then pretty much all of the Big 12 is too.

Yes, Houston's stadium only holds 40k. But UH leaders have already said if they join a P5 conference, the stadium will be expanded to 50k or 60k as it was designed to do.

40 minutes ago, Ryan Munthe said:

No shit, Sherlock. However, UT and Tech also have strong footholds here. If Houston could ever hit their potential as a program, Big 12 would have more muscle in Houston.

What I'm suggesting is that the Big 12 would rather not have Houston turn into Atlanta, where SEC football is bigger than the NFL, despite Atlanta being in the middle of ACC country. That's why B12 grabbed TCU.

The B12 grabbed TCU because they were about to not meet the standards at the time for an AQ BCS conference. Losing the teams they did, they needed a team with a resume that included being ranked in BCS polls. Those standards were dissolved soon after TCU was invited, but at the time, they thought they needed that resume.

NTXCoog · July 21, 2016

44 minutes ago, Ryan Munthe said:

FBI data puts the Third Ward as the fifteenth most dangerous neighborhood in the country, but keep burying your head in the sand, if you're really going to try to compare a neighborhood where you have a 1 in 13 chance of being a victim to Denton--then there's no point in arguing with you.

Tell me about USC then and it's neighborhood. Or Temple. Etc.

Ben Gooding · July 21, 2016

2 hours ago, NTXCoog said:

34k isn't exactly struggling to hit 30k. And that's with a stupid Thursday night game against SMU at the same time the Houston Texans play 5 miles away. There will be no struggle this year at all. Already 22.5k season tickets sold, throw in 7.5k student attendance and the Little Coogs program and we're averaging 30+k without selling another ticket for the rest of the season.

There will be more struggle than you think when UH opens the season with an ass thumping in their own back yard in week 1. I expect a lot of wind to come out of those red sails then and there. Not even Paul Wall* and all of his hot air will be able to fill it back up either.

*Cool ambassador by the way.

NTXCoog · July 21, 2016

2 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

There will be more struggle than you think when UH opens the season with an ass thumping in their own back yard in week 1. I expect a lot of wind to come out of those red sails then and there. Not even Paul Wall* and all of his hot air will be able to fill it back up either.

*Cool ambassador by the way.

That's a big if considering how we beat FSU in our last game and OU and FSU about that level

Struggle to sell out? Maybe. Struggle for 30k as you suggest? No way. If you include student tickets, we're already at 30k sold right now which is what is reported. That's before single game tickets or visitor tickets go on sell.

And if you like the Paul Wall connection, the UH library has DJ Screw's archive including his recording equipment and about 1500 of his vinyl records.

Ben Gooding · July 21, 2016

2 minutes ago, NTXCoog said:

That's a big if considering how we beat FSU in our last game and OU and FSU about that level

Struggle to sell out? Maybe. Struggle for 30k as you suggest? No way. If you include student tickets, we're already at 30k sold right now which is what is reported. That's before single game tickets or visitor tickets go on sell.

And if you like the Paul Wall connection, the UH library has DJ Screw's archive including his recording equipment and about 1500 of his vinyl records.

I was being extremely sarcastic about Paul Wall. Dude's a dead beat.

Vs OU going into week 1 of a season and vs uninspired FSU exiting the season is different much like how night and day is different. And you know that. Go to the game and see first hand.

Mean Green 93-98 · July 21, 2016

The only reason I'd put Cincinnati ahead of Houston is geography. WVU is on an island, and they are starving for some closer conference mates.

How bad is the B12 kicking themselves for turning down Louisville now?

NTXCoog · July 21, 2016

3 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

I was being extremely sarcastic about Paul Wall. Dude's a dead beat.

Vs OU going into week 1 of a season and vs uninspired FSU exiting the season is different much like how night and day is different. And you know that. Go to the game and see first hand.

I don't know what your definition of a dead beat is. I usually associate it with someone who does nothing, but wants to be taken care of. Wall has put out multiple albums, has acted, and has a custom jewelry business. That's hustlin', quite the opposite of dead beat

Some of you UNT fans crack me up. " I wouldn't want Paul Wall associated with my football program. I wouldn't want Tilman Fertitta associated with us." You get your wish. No one wants to be associated with your football program. Isn't that part of the problem that UNT needs to fix, getting people involved in the program?

Ben Gooding · July 21, 2016

12 minutes ago, NTXCoog said:

I don't know what your definition of a dead beat is. I usually associate it with someone who does nothing, but wants to be taken care of. Wall has put out multiple albums, has acted, and has a custom jewelry business. That's hustlin', quite the opposite of dead beat

Some of you UNT fans crack me up. " I wouldn't want Paul Wall associated with my football program. I wouldn't want Tilman Fertitta associated with us." You get your wish. No one wants to be associated with your football program. Isn't that part of the problem that UNT needs to fix, getting people involved in the program?

Yes, it indeed is. But no thank you to Paul Wall. However, you do a good job of being associated with our program by being here. So, thank you.

NTXCoog · July 21, 2016

28 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

Yes, it indeed is. But no thank you to Paul Wall. However, you do a good job of being associated with our program by being here. So, thank you.

I lived in Denton for several years. Have lived in Providence Village for a long time since them. UNT is the local school. I don't support UNT like I do UH, but I definitely follow it.

UTSA Fan · July 21, 2016

7 minutes ago, NTXCoog said:

I lived in Denton for several years. Have lived in Providence Village for a long time since them. UNT is the local school. I don't support UNT like I do UH, but I definitely follow it.

Anyway....I wish UH the best. If they move up it creates opportunity for others. It will be interesting to see if the B12 actually expands and how it plays out. Which is prefered, the B12 or PAC xx?

Harry · July 21, 2016

This is about as big an endorsement as you could possibly ask for... I think they are in.

UTSA Fan · July 21, 2016

11 minutes ago, Harry said:

This is about as big an endorsement as you could possibly ask for... I think they are in.

You think so or will they pass on expansion if this is stipulated?

Harry · July 21, 2016

23 minutes ago, UTSA Fan said:

You think so or will they pass on expansion if this is stipulated?

I think when you have the governor and the two highest ranking UT people saying they want Houston, that's about as good as it gets. I think they will add 4 (to get to 14) and Houston will be one of the four. I think they will do a Big 12 network but the Longhorn Network will stay put and separate. My best guess is BYU, Houston, Cincy and UConn. AAC is screwed. Honestly, I could see new conferences form underneath based on geography. For instance, a Texas/SW conference that included SMU, Rice, UNT, UTSA, UTEP, Tulsa as a west division and an eastern conference comprised of a mixture from AAC and C-USA. It just makes too much sense. We just have to hope and pray that SMU will allow us to be a part of it. History does not favor us in that particular regard.

Ben Gooding · July 21, 2016

1 minute ago, Harry said:

I think when you have the governor and the two highest ranking UT people saying they want Houston, that's about as good as it gets. I think they will add 4 (to get to 14) and Houston will be one of the four. I think they will do a Big 12 network but the Longhorn Network will stay put and separate. My best guess is BYU, Houston, Cincy and UConn. AAC is screwed. Honestly, I could see new conferences form underneath based on geography. For instance, a Texas/SW conference that included SMU, Rice, UNT, UTSA, UTEP, Tulsa as a west division and an eastern conference comprised of a mixture from AAC and C-USA. It just makes too much sense. We just have to hope and pray that SMU will allow us to be a part of it. History does not favor us in that particular regard.

If nutsack and utep gets inclusion into a new conference and we don't UNT better pull out every big gun they have and do whatever it takes, literally. If not we'll be grouped with the remaining sunbelt rejects. It's paramount that winning starts to take form asap. We need some kind of ground to stand on even if it's on the edge of a cliff that we just had to climb up.