Big 12 To Water Down Its Conference Further With 2-4 More Teams

UTSA Fan · July 20, 2016

12 hours ago, Ben Gooding said:

Stay put? I say scratch and crawl with smug to get us into AAC.

Please elaborate. Harrys' rational is fewer members to split revenue with and I'll add travel is very friendly in CUSA. I'm very interested to understand why you believe the ACC is a good move. I'm not saying I think you are wrong or that I disagree, just curious.

Ryan Munthe · July 20, 2016

45 minutes ago, NTXCoog said:

We'll see. The Big 12 is becoming irrelevant in the Houston market. It's all SEC. The only Big 12 games to make the top 10 TV ratings in the Houston market last year were OU/UT and TCU/Baylor. OU/UT is on FS1 this year so that by itself may kick it out of the top 10. TCU/Baylor? Who knows? Will Baylor be ranked when they play?

There's a good chance not a single Big 12 conference game makes top 10 in the Houston market this year. Some OOC games will probably make it (Notre Dame/UT, OU/OSU, OU/UH), but what does it say about the Big 12's place in the Houston market if they can't get ratings for any in conference games?

BTW: UH had 2 top 10 games in the Houston market too, tying the entire Big 12 conference.

College football is nearly irrelevant as a whole in the Houston market. Too many transplants. Texans and Cowboys own the Houston football market.

Edited July 20, 2016 by Ryan Munthe

TreeFiddy · July 20, 2016

7 hours ago, NM Green said:

My Longhorn connected friend said prepare for the scramble of the Big 12 leftovers when Texas and OU break away. Expansion does not impact UT as they will be gone sooner than later and the rest of the league is going to be scrambling to get into one of the powers. There will be leftovers and those are the programs we need to be aligning with.

I agree the MWC is more stable than AAC at this time. They have more history with each other and will weather this thing together. Doubt they are looking at Eastern programs for expansion at this time, but we should try. I think CUSA and Sun Belt eventually merge.

GMG

MWC is pretty stable because pretty much nobody wants their programs, except for the recent discussion of CSU. Boise does not even seem to be in the B12 conversation.

Unless, the AAC loses more than 2 teams, I don't think it will have a huge impact on CUSA. The AAC has said if they lose 2 teams they may just stick with 10. If we lose a couple of teams, I could easily see us not adding anyone.

Ben Gooding · July 20, 2016

2 hours ago, UTSA Fan said:

Please elaborate. Harrys' rational is fewer members to split revenue with and I'll add travel is very friendly in CUSA. I'm very interested to understand why you believe the ACC is a good move. I'm not saying I think you are wrong or that I disagree, just curious.

$ and perception.

Would you prefer to have our current home schedule or a home conference schedule with UCONN, ECU, Tulsa, and Smug.

Truth be told, our current conference home schedule (latech, so miss, muts, and marshall) THIS year probably is competitive with my above example here. But that may be the first year we could really say that, ever. And even then it's still not perceived as well as my example. And, again, $.

Cerebus · July 20, 2016

3 hours ago, mgfan said:

We were a finalist years ago when UTEP got in over us, and this was because of crappy fouts.

No it wasn't, their main concern was the lack of a baseball program. Good thing ten years later we have that... oops.

ETA: I still can't believe this isn't game playing. It makes no sense to expand above ten, unless the conference thinks there are people about to jump ship....

ETA2: Main reason to go to the AAC if other teams left is the sweet, sweet NCAA tournament credits. Each game in the NCAA tourney pays out that year and for the next five years, directly to the conference. If a team leaves the future credits stay with the

DeepGreen · July 20, 2016

17 hours ago, Ryan Munthe said:

BYU and Cincy. You heard it here first.

UH has no chance. UTEP and Rice will leave CUSA, USM to AAC, ULL, Arky State, USA to CUSA. You heard it here first.

I just made myself sad. Now we'll be stuck "in-state rivals" nUTSAck.

I still think the AAC is living on borrowed time, I'd rather be in the MWC.

I'm thinking U of H before Cincy. Remember the Fertitta money influence.

Ryan Munthe · July 20, 2016

1 hour ago, DeepGreen said:

I'm thinking U of H before Cincy. Remember the Fertitta money influence.

0% chance, for a variety of reasons I'm going to explain below. Texan Donald Trump means nothing. UH's one season doesn't earn them a seat at the table.

Big 12 has two teams in Texas, none in Ohio. Ohio is big time Big 10 territory, and they need to enter the market. Despite A&M, the Big 12 controls Texas with UT & Tech.

Cincinnati has made a bowl every year since 2007, UH 2012.

In a down year for Cincy, they averaged 37K. In UH's best year ever, they averaged 34K.

Cincinnati has a storied men's basketball program and sell out a 14K seat arena regularly. UH had Phi Slamma Jamma and hasn't done anything since the early 90s. They never sell out their stadium (which is decrepit at best).

Cincinnati is ranked higher than UH in every major publication academically and has double the endowment.

Cincinnati has been in a BCS/P5 conference far longer than UH has.

Houston is not an ideal college football market, either.

UH has nothing over Cincy. And don't even get me started on BYU, which is in another stratosphere above the Coogs.

Cincy is also a lot higher up on the university in-state food chain due to the fact that there aren't nearly as many good universities in Ohio as there are in Texas.

B12's short list is likely:
1.) BYU
2.) Cincy
3.) UH
4.) UConn

Edited July 20, 2016 by Ryan Munthe

jtm0097 · July 20, 2016

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/17115091/big-12-football-coaches-favor-houston-cougars-byu-cougars-expansion-espn-poll-shows

B12's short list according to ESPN
1.) BYU
2.) UH
3.) CINCY & Memphis
4.) Colorado State & UCF

Edited July 20, 2016 by jtm0097

Ryan Munthe · July 20, 2016

10 minutes ago, jtm0097 said:

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/17115091/big-12-football-coaches-favor-houston-cougars-byu-cougars-expansion-espn-poll-shows

B12's short list according to ESPN
1.) BYU
2.) UH
3.) CINCY & Memphis
4.) Colorado State & UCF

Coaches, but not the commissioners. I would bet a lot of money it won't be UH if the B12 only adds two.

Edited July 20, 2016 by Ryan Munthe

jtm0097 · July 20, 2016

I think Texas will try to keep them out.

Cougar King · July 20, 2016

I can already smell those P5 conference games around the corner. The UH-OU game to open up the season will be a great preview.

Edited July 20, 2016 by Cougar King

Harry · July 20, 2016

17 minutes ago, Cougar King said:

I can already smell those P5 conference games around the corner. The UH-OU game to open up the season will be a great preview.

Hey man -- big congrats to you guys. Well deserved. I always felt like y'all were screwed by Baylor and Ann Richards. I can promise you Tech, Baylor, Okie State etc have concerns in terms of what you can bring in terms of your size, location. Frankly I see you becoming an extremely powerful program with the infusion of Big 12 resources and reputation.

Even though we (UNT) are dog ass down right now, I think Houston's recent program elevation gives us some hope for the future. There are a lot of similarities between us.

7 hours ago, UTSA Fan said:

Please elaborate. Harrys' rational is fewer members to split revenue with and I'll add travel is very friendly in CUSA. I'm very interested to understand why you believe the ACC is a good move. I'm not saying I think you are wrong or that I disagree, just curious.

Ben knows this, but we will NEVER and I mean NEVER EVER get into AAC so long as SMU is in there. Our only hope is that SMU is somehow able to finagle entry into the Big 12 due to their money, academics and political connections. If that were to happen, we would probably get immediate entry into the AAC just due their need for our market. I honestly figured SMU to be more in play especially if they were to add 4 teams. Had Jones not run them into the ground they might have been a top candidate behind BYU and Cincy. I bet they are pulling out every stop right now to gain inclusion.

greenminer · July 21, 2016

At what point does SMU stop having leverage over us? How do they have any current leverage? Will there be a day when their conference brushes their anti-UNT sentiment off the table and says "shut up Punies. We are taking UNT"?

someone explain this to me.

DeepGreen · July 21, 2016

4 hours ago, Ryan Munthe said:

0% chance, for a variety of reasons I'm going to explain below. Texan Donald Trump means nothing. UH's one season doesn't earn them a seat at the table.

Big 12 has two teams in Texas, none in Ohio. Ohio is big time Big 10 territory, and they need to enter the market. Despite A&M, the Big 12 controls Texas with UT & Tech.

Cincinnati has made a bowl every year since 2007, UH 2012.

In a down year for Cincy, they averaged 37K. In UH's best year ever, they averaged 34K.

Cincinnati has a storied men's basketball program and sell out a 14K seat arena regularly. UH had Phi Slamma Jamma and hasn't done anything since the early 90s. They never sell out their stadium (which is decrepit at best).

Cincinnati is ranked higher than UH in every major publication academically and has double the endowment.

Cincinnati has been in a BCS/P5 conference far longer than UH has.

Houston is not an ideal college football market, either.

UH has nothing over Cincy. And don't even get me started on BYU, which is in another stratosphere above the Coogs.

Cincy is also a lot higher up on the university in-state food chain due to the fact that there aren't nearly as many good universities in Ohio as there are in Texas.

B12's short list is likely:
1.) BYU
2.) Cincy
3.) UH
4.) UConn

You could be right. But I'll stand by U of H getting the B12 invite. Don't forget all those years playing in the SWC. I just don't see Cincy being a player. Nor Uconn. That said, and if I'm correct, it doesn't mean UT and OU would stay put.

Edited July 21, 2016 by DeepGreen

mgfan · July 21, 2016

7 hours ago, Cerebus said:

No it wasn't, their main concern was the lack of a baseball program. Good thing ten years later we have that... oops.

ETA: I still can't believe this isn't game playing. It makes no sense to expand above ten, unless the conference thinks there are people about to jump ship....

ETA2: Main reason to go to the AAC if other teams left is the sweet, sweet NCAA tournament credits. Each game in the NCAA tourney pays out that year and for the next five years, directly to the conference. If a team leaves the future credits stay with the

Okay fouts or no baseball proves my point. We didn't get kept out of cusa before because of SMU.

Edited July 21, 2016 by mgfan

Ben Gooding · July 21, 2016

3 hours ago, Harry said:

Hey man -- big congrats to you guys. Well deserved. I always felt like y'all were screwed by Baylor and Ann Richards. I can promise you Tech, Baylor, Okie State etc have concerns in terms of what you can bring in terms of your size, location. Frankly I see you becoming an extremely powerful program with the infusion of Big 12 resources and reputation.

Even though we (UNT) are dog ass down right now, I think Houston's recent program elevation gives us some hope for the future. There are a lot of similarities between us.

Ben knows this, but we will NEVER and I mean NEVER EVER get into AAC so long as SMU is in there. Our only hope is that SMU is somehow able to finagle entry into the Big 12 due to their money, academics and political connections. If that were to happen, we would probably get immediate entry into the AAC just due their need for our market. I honestly figured SMU to be more in play especially if they were to add 4 teams. Had Jones not run them into the ground they might have been a top candidate behind BYU and Cincy. I bet they are pulling out every stop right now to gain inclusion.

Never is a bold statement. Never say never.

NTXCoog · July 21, 2016

6 hours ago, Ryan Munthe said:

0% chance, for a variety of reasons I'm going to explain below. Texan Donald Trump means nothing. UH's one season doesn't earn them a seat at the table.

Big 12 has two teams in Texas, none in Ohio. Ohio is big time Big 10 territory, and they need to enter the market. Despite A&M, the Big 12 controls Texas with UT & Tech.

Cincinnati has made a bowl every year since 2007, UH 2012.

In a down year for Cincy, they averaged 37K. In UH's best year ever, they averaged 34K.

Cincinnati has a storied men's basketball program and sell out a 14K seat arena regularly. UH had Phi Slamma Jamma and hasn't done anything since the early 90s. They never sell out their stadium (which is decrepit at best).

Cincinnati is ranked higher than UH in every major publication academically and has double the endowment.

Cincinnati has been in a BCS/P5 conference far longer than UH has.

Houston is not an ideal college football market, either.

UH has nothing over Cincy. And don't even get me started on BYU, which is in another stratosphere above the Coogs.

Cincy is also a lot higher up on the university in-state food chain due to the fact that there aren't nearly as many good universities in Ohio as there are in Texas.

B12's short list is likely:
1.) BYU
2.) Cincy
3.) UH
4.) UConn

One season? I guess 13-1 in 2011 isn't a season. BTW: Guess what Texas university has the 2nd most wins in the last 10 years? Hint: TCU is #1 with 100. 2nd has 88 wins. Averaging 8.8 wins a season isn't too shabby.

Cincy has only been ranked 5 times in their entire history. Only once in the top 10. That's so much more big time. And not ranked the last 3 years. And their bowl streak? How many major bowls have they won in their entire history? That would be zero.

You tout Cincy attendance in a down year at 37k. Why don't you talk about 2014 when they were conference co-champs and averaged 28k? Or 2009 which was their best year in history (ranked #8), and they averaged 34k. Want to bet UH's attendance is much improved this year? Already sold over 22k season tickets, and increase over over 6k from last year. Looks like a push to me.

2015 wasn't our best year ever. Maybe best win %. But #8 would be our 3rd best final ranking ever. #8 would be Cincy's highest ranking ever

Cincy is higher up the university food chain? There is 1 school in Ohio that anyone cares about, and it ain't Cincy.

Decrepit basketball stadium? Maybe right now. But can't wait to see the $60 million renovation when it opens in 2018.

I love your math skills. 0% UH gets in the Big 12, but #3 on your expansion list and there's a possibility they expand by 4 teams. That sounds like >0% to me.

TreeFiddy · July 21, 2016

8 hours ago, Cerebus said:

No it wasn't, their main concern was the lack of a baseball program. Good thing ten years later we have that... oops.

ETA: I still can't believe this isn't game playing. It makes no sense to expand above ten, unless the conference thinks there are people about to jump ship....

ETA2: Main reason to go to the AAC if other teams left is the sweet, sweet NCAA tournament credits. Each game in the NCAA tourney pays out that year and for the next five years, directly to the conference. If a team leaves the future credits stay with the

Sweet Tourney Dough the gift that keeps on giving.

Ryan Munthe · July 21, 2016

11 hours ago, NTXCoog said:

One season? I guess 13-1 in 2011 isn't a season. BTW: Guess what Texas university has the 2nd most wins in the last 10 years? Hint: TCU is #1 with 100. 2nd has 88 wins. Averaging 8.8 wins a season isn't too shabby.

Cincy has only been ranked 5 times in their entire history. Only once in the top 10. That's so much more big time. And not ranked the last 3 years. And their bowl streak? How many major bowls have they won in their entire history? That would be zero.

You tout Cincy attendance in a down year at 37k. Why don't you talk about 2014 when they were conference co-champs and averaged 28k? Or 2009 which was their best year in history (ranked #8), and they averaged 34k. Want to bet UH's attendance is much improved this year? Already sold over 22k season tickets, and increase over over 6k from last year. Looks like a push to me.

2015 wasn't our best year ever. Maybe best win %. But #8 would be our 3rd best final ranking ever. #8 would be Cincy's highest ranking ever

Cincy is higher up the university food chain? There is 1 school in Ohio that anyone cares about, and it ain't Cincy.

Decrepit basketball stadium? Maybe right now. But can't wait to see the $60 million renovation when it opens in 2018.

I love your math skills. 0% UH gets in the Big 12, but #3 on your expansion list and there's a possibility they expand by 4 teams. That sounds like >0% to me.

My math skills are equal to your reading skills. (I said 0% chance UH gets in before BYU or Cincy.)

Also the radio silence on the whole Men's basketball thing is amusing.

If your coach can't handle Ticket-lite in Houston he'll get eaten up by B12 media but that's none of my business.

Oh, and stay safe when visiting your alma mater, buddy. Dangerous out there in the tre.

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/amp/Gunfire-leaves-man-dead-in-Third-Ward-8397591.php?

Edited July 21, 2016 by Ryan Munthe

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF · July 21, 2016

16 hours ago, Cougar King said:

I can already smell those P5 conference games around the corner. The UH-OU game to open up the season will be a great preview.

...of why Houston would be horrible for the Big 12, like another Iowa State.

greenminer · July 21, 2016

1 hour ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

...of why Houston would be horrible for the Big 12, like another Iowa State.

Are you making this claim based on competitiveness or on region/proximity to conference? Because I am not sure Iowa State is a fair comparison to UH in either regard.

Edited July 21, 2016 by greenminer

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF · July 21, 2016

30 minutes ago, greenminer said:

Are you making this claim based on competitiveness or on region/proximity to conference? Because I am not sure Iowa State is a fair comparison to UH in either regard.

That's true in one sense: Iowa State averaged over 56,000 per home game; about double what Houston brings. Houston's stadium doesn't even hold 56,000. It doesn't even hold 46,000.

Competitively, Houston would sink to the level of an Iowa State in the Big 12...without the benefit of at least having decent attendance.

In short, Houston is good being a "big fish" in their small pond. But, their overall athletics add nothing to a bigger conference.

The funny thing is, we have all these threads about attendance. However, Houston is proof that you can have a new stadium and win, but still not fill it up.

Houston is a duckfart of an athletic program. They graduated the majority of last years starters from their football squad. Beginning with the OU game in the opener, they will struggle like all duckfart programs do.

That the Big 12 might take them shows nothing but what a desperate bind the Big 12 is in when compared to the other P5s.

Edited July 21, 2016 by MeanGreenMailbox

greenminer · July 21, 2016

3 minutes ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

That's true in one sense: Iowa State averaged over 56,000 per home game; about double what Houston brings. Houston's stadium doesn't even hold 56,000. It doesn't even hold 46,000.

Competitively, Houston would sink to the level of an Iowa State in the Big 12...without the benefit of at least having decent attendance.

In short, Houston is good being a "big fish" in their small pond. But, their overall athletics add nothing to a bigger conference.

The funny thing is, we have all these threads about attendance. However, Houston is proof that you can have a new stadium and win, but still not fill it up.

Houston is a duckfart of an athletic program. They graduated the majority of last years starters from their football squad. Beginning with the OU game in the opener, they will struggle like all duckfart programs do.

That the Big 12 might take them shows nothing but what a desperate bind the Big 12 is in when compared to the other P5s.

A couple things come to mind:

1) the assumption that Houston would fail in the Bug XII is just that: an assumption. I read the same sentiment about TCU as they made the leap.

2) you could substitute UNT/AAC in the above statement, and you'd sound like a snooty SMU associate trying to keep UNT out of their conference.

look, I don't like Houston, and i get grossed out just thinking of their city, but I've read this "Houston offers nothing" sentiment for 10 years. But they keep winning, and moving up. It makes those posters look kinda nutty and disconnected.

Harry · July 21, 2016

7 minutes ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

That's true in one sense: Iowa State averaged over 56,000 per home game; about double what Houston brings. Houston's stadium doesn't even hold 56,000. It doesn't even hold 46,000.

Competitively, Houston would sink to the level of an Iowa State in the Big 12...without the benefit of at least having decent attendance.

In short, Houston is good being a "big fish" in their small pond. But, their overall athletics add nothing to a bigger conference.

The funny thing is, we have all these threads about attendance. However, Houston is proof that you can have a new stadium and win, but still not fill it up.

Houston is a duckfart of an athletic program. They graduated the majority of last years starters from their football squad. Beginning with the OU game in the opener, they will struggle like all duckfart programs do.

That the Big 12 might take them shows nothing but what a desperate bind the Big 12 is in when compared to the other P5s.

I respectfully disagree with you. If you don't think Houston will fill up its stadium with the likes of Texas, Tech, Baylor, Okie State, OU -- I mean goodness gracious I would expect their attendance to go up by at least 10K or more just from all of the opponents. Remember they get to play SMU, UConn, Tulane, Tulsa and the like right now who don't bring jack squat in terms of a traveling fan base. Houston the city has tons of ardent Big 12 team fans who would gladly pay to see their alma mater play right down the road.

I don't get why people don't factor in the conference more in terms of attendance. I mean the last time we had SMU in Denton they brought what 200 fans? Being in the Big 12 will not only attract more opposing team interest (I would bet the Texas game breaks records) but also gets more dormant alumni interested in attending games. Maybe their wife or sister or brother in law attended Tech or Baylor etc.. Do you think Iowa State would average 45K if they didn't have a home slate last year that included IOWA, TCU, TEXAS, OSU?