MGB: Ryan Rentfro has elected to leave the program, roster update

FirefightnRick · July 20, 2016

9 minutes ago, GOMG2013 said:

No doubt Cosh was bad, but there's an OC that gets a pass from the fans and others cause he's a nice guy. Try to make him out to be a hero cause he was an interim twice.

And he didn't inherit anything. He was the OC responsible for recruiting and evaluating talent. Then we look at how Harrell is out there grinding...that is how it's supposed to be done. Even if you are only a coordinator and not a head coach. The OC and DC are supposed to be heavily involved in recruiting.

It's just easy to blame Mac I guess. And mac had his faults, but the offense has held this team back from wnning more games for at least 5 years.

Our defense played good enough to win 3 to 5 games last year. Not great, but Our offense played good enough to win zero.

True. But keep in mind Mac did not require all of his coaches to recruit...especially Skladany. In fact I'd have liked to have known how many of the 11 were required by Mac?

Thats why I asked SL how many of his coaches are required to recruit? His answer..."All of them".

Rick

TreeFiddy · July 20, 2016

18 minutes ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

So, under Skladany, we were on a downward trend after 2013. We already knew that.

And, again, "making the most of what you inherit"...you have to have inherited something. Remember, we were so desperate for defenders last year that Whitfield got talked into returning late in the summer.

It's for sure been a sh*t pot since 2013. But, Cosh didn't recruit the talent in the sh*t pot. One way or the other, the defense was going to get burned.

FWIW, I think Skladany simply saw the writing on the wall during the 2014 season and retired. He had one decent season in three at UNT's DC. That's it. Let's not confuse him with a Stoops brother when it comes to defense. There's a reason he was almost as much as here and there guy as Cosh, save his initial go round with McCarney at Iowa State.

It was a combination of things. One large reason that the defensive stats went down was due to the shift in offensive philosophy that Chico tried to implement. Chico was not very successful and it ended up causing the defense to look more inept than it was due to them being on the field all the time with not a lot of talented depth and not a ton of talent on the first string. Ultimately, the defense appeared to start quitting earlier and earlier in games because they did not see any hope in what the offense was doing.

FWIW, Littrell will be running an up tempo offense as well and if they don't move the chains the defense will be on the field an awful lot. I believe this is a big reason they have been adding a lot of defensive players with these late moves. I am very hopeful that our offense will eventually be much improved over that hot mess we saw last year.

GOMG2013 · July 20, 2016

2 minutes ago, FirefightnRick said:

True. But keep in mind Mac did not require all of his coaches to recruit...especially Skladany. In fact I'd have liked to have known how many of the 11 were required by Mac?

Thats why I asked SL how many of his coaches are required to recruit? His answer..."All of them".

Rick

I agree. The AD, the coaches, AND EVEN UNT FANS overestimated the impact of an upgrade to facilities.

7 minutes ago, TreeFiddy said:

It was a combination of things. One large reason that the defensive stats went down was due to the shift in offensive philosophy that Chico tried to implement. Chico was not very successful and it ended up causing the defense to look more inept than it was due to them being on the field all the time with not a lot of talented depth and not a ton of talent on the first string. Ultimately, the defense appeared to start quitting earlier and earlier in games because they did not see any hope in what the offense was

I can't speak on the whole defense, but once mac left, the dbs were allowed to play closer and not 10 yards off. They also ran more man. That 10 yards off crap was not brought here by cosh. It was a carryover from skladany. If I had to guess, Cosh probably got the job cause he said he could run skladany's defense without many changes.

FirefightnRick · July 20, 2016

4 minutes ago, GOMG2013 said:

I agree. The AD, the coaches, AND EVEN UNT FANS overestimated the impact of an upgrade to facilities.

Agree again.

The thing is...how were we to know a dude like Mac, with so much experience and charisma would turn out like he did?

And he was allowed to turn out like he did because RV allowed it. And RV allowed it because he was scared shitless of Mac and didn't dare question him about anything.

It really can be an example as to how things can quickly go into the toilet when there is no oversight and accountability by the university.

Just look at how the mega recruit camps were allowed to operate at Apogee last summer. It was a complete cluster phuck and RV and Mac were both in charge of it. I know..I had a nephew there and I had never been more embarrassed for my program when his father told me what he witnessed.

Rick

GOMG2013 · July 20, 2016

21 minutes ago, FirefightnRick said:

Agree again.

The thing is...how were we to know a dude like Mac, with so much experience and charisma would turn out like he did?

And he was allowed to turn out like he did because RV allowed it. And RV allowed it because he was scared shitless of Mac and didn't dare question him about anything.

It really can be an example as to how things can quickly go into the toilet when there is no oversight and accountability by the university.

Just look at how the mega recruit camps were allowed to operate at Apogee last summer. It was a complete cluster phuck and RV and Mac were both in charge of it. I know..I had a nephew there and I had never been more embarrassed for my program when his father told me what he witnessed.

Rick

Let's not forget the dependency on camps too.

I don't think mac was the issue as much as some think as far as recruiting. There is no way the head coach goes out to every 3, 4, 5 stars house. Schools are plucking 3 and 4 star athletes right out of Fort Bend and the head coach hasn't touched a foot in the area.

Skladany and mac both came to fort bend, but I'm sure that was the exception more than common practice.

There is no excuse for UNT coaches to not visit DFW area schools. Mac is at fault for allowing the Co ordinators to be lazy. Skladany wasn't going to get out there, and I am sure he told mac that when he was hired. Skladany got results though. In spite of his faults and lack of recruiting, he has "some" success.

The problem is that even the younger coaches were lost and learning as they go. They also didn't have the budget to work with like other schools. That will discourage a lot of traveling, even for young and up and coming coaches.

Mac is responsible for putting together the staff, so he should get the blame though. If he has weaknesses like age and old fashioned, then he has to hire a staff to balance that out. That is the difference between other old coaches and mac. Mac has done good in some areas of hiring coaches though. Several have moved on to better jobs.

Once again though...it's the offensive talent. From a player standpoint and coaching. And Chico was inherited. Not sure if mac would have had the sense to hire an up and coming young guy or one of his old friends though. I'm sure mac didn't tell his coaches to stay home either. Each coach is responsible for his own recruits and his career path.

Cr1028 · July 20, 2016

2 hours ago, GOMG2013 said:

No doubt Cosh was bad, but there's an OC that gets a pass from the fans and others cause he's a nice guy. Try to make him out to be a hero cause he was an interim twice.

And he didn't inherit anything. He was the OC responsible for recruiting and evaluating talent. Then we look at how Harrell is out there grinding...that is how it's supposed to be done. Even if you are only a coordinator and not a head coach. The OC and DC are supposed to be heavily involved in recruiting.

It's just easy to blame Mac I guess. And mac had his faults, but the offense has held this team back from wnning more games for at least 5 years.

Our defense played good enough to win 3 to 5 games last year. Not great, but Our offense played good enough to win zero.

Chico should get blame sure, but he wasn't the major cause of the massive dropoff from '14 to '15. His offense was just as bad in '15 as it was in '14. Cosh was the major difference from '14 to '15.

Total Offense 2014: ranked 114th.

Total Offense 2015: ranked 117th.

Edited July 20, 2016 by Cr1028

TreeFiddy · July 20, 2016

3 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

Chico should get blame sure, but he wasn't the major cause of the massive dropoff from '14 to '15. His offense was just as bad in '14 as it was in '15. Cosh was the major difference from '14 to '15.

Total Offense 2014: ranked 114th.

Total Offense 2015: ranked 117th.

Those would be some decent rankings...if there were 500 teams.

Cr1028 · July 20, 2016

2 hours ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

So, under Skladany, we were on a downward trend after 2013. We already knew that.

And, again, "making the most of what you inherit"...you have to have inherited something. Remember, we were so desperate for defenders last year that Whitfield got talked into returning late in the summer.

It's for sure been a sh*t pot since 2013. But, Cosh didn't recruit the talent in the sh*t pot. One way or the other, the defense was going to get burned.

FWIW, I think Skladany simply saw the writing on the wall during the 2014 season and retired. He had one decent season in three at UNT's DC. That's it. Let's not confuse him with a Stoops brother when it comes to defense. There's a reason he was almost as much as here and there guy as Cosh, save his initial go round with McCarney at Iowa State.

2013: Skladany defense gives up 348.3ypg

2014: Skladany defense gives up 369.4ypg

2015:Cosh defense gives up 502ypg

Going from giving up 348ypg to giving up 369ypg because you lost a senior filled roster with NFL talent could be seen as the start of a downward trend, sure.

Going from giving up 369ypg to giving up 502ypg is by no means a continuation of that trend is an anomaly and the overwhelming contributor was Chris Cosh. Spin it like you want, but Cosh was as bad or worse than Ron Mendoza making him the worst DC in NT history.

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF · July 20, 2016

YPG means nothing. A team with a game in the bag already isn't trying to keep gaining yards. They are handing the ball off and running out the clock.

Also, if we are turning the ball over with regularity, as we were in 2014, opposing offenses don't have far to go to score.

Take for example the 2014 game against Indiana, featuring Latest UNT QB Jesus Dajon Williams:

1st Series: We start at the 20, Dajon throws an interception on 3rd down; Indiana takes over at our 31.
2nd Series: We punt after a three and out, Indiana take over at their 46.
3rd Series: We punt after five plays, Indian takes over at their 44.

First Quarter ends, we're behind 21-0. Indiana's worst field positions, thus far has been their own 44. Skladany's defense hasn't given up many yards...but, there weren't a ton of yards between Indiana and the end zone anyway, so...were we all thrilled at the YPG prospects at that point? No. We weren't.

We lose 49-24.

Next week at UAB is worse. We punt the first series, then UAB scores on a fumble recovery and interception on our next two possessions. The YPG looks fantastic at this point, but we're down 14-0. At halftime, we're down 35-14. Offense throws another INT TD to UAB to run the score to 42-14 on the second series of the third quarter.

Again, YPG looks great at this point of the game, but we're behind 42-14.

This is against UAB.

So, YPG all you want. It means nothing. The 2014 defense was worse than 2013. The downfall was already on the way.

Skladany and Cosh were both bad. Looking back 11 seasons, you can see that 2013 was by far an outlier.