DRC: UNT on hook for $90,000 monthly in buyouts in wake of Villareal's departure

[VideoEagle]

I found this from @SilverEagle from last fall

Quote

  On 10/22/2015 at 9:39 AM, SilverEagle said:

To be accurate, I sent him an e-mail and said "has anyone from North Texas contacted you about the head coach opening?". His response "I'd love to hear from someone at North Texas about the job".  I have no knowledge that he contacted the athletic department about being a candidate. But what this exchange tells me is that there WERE other viable coaching options for RV to consider. To say otherwise is a lie.

AND, when Dodge was fired I immediately sent an almost identically worded e-mail to Carthel, Tomsen, and the head coach at SHSU. I got a response from both Tomsen and the SHSU coach asking who I was. When I said that I was not a person in a position to hire, the correspondence ended there. 

But what I'm conveying in this story is that three viable candidates were made aware of the job opening in 2010, and one can reasonably assume that at least one of them might have had their agent check on things. 

So, we know Carthel told Silver he wanted to hear from someone at NT about the job. That's wanting more information and a long way from "Yes, I want the job." And there's no evidence he actually applied or even contacted anyone. But, yes, there were at least potential options at the time of the Dodge hire. 

[SilverEagle]

31 minutes ago, VideoEagle said:

I found this from @SilverEagle from last fall

So, we know Carthel told Silver he wanted to hear from someone at NT about the job. That's wanting more information and a long way from "Yes, I want the job." And there's no evidence he actually applied or even contacted anyone. But, yes, there were at least potential options at the time of the Dodge hire. 

Viable options IMHO.

[GTWT]

Since that time Don Carthel has been fired for NCAA rules violation.  Great coach but I'm not unhappy he didn't come to UNT.

[GrandGreen]

On 6/22/2016 at 10:02 AM, UNT86 said:

McCarney was extended to help with recruiting.  I don't think there was ever an expectation that he would finish the contract.  But, you don't have a chance to recruit when other schools are able to tell potential players that the head coaches contract is set to expire and has not been renewed.  That extension was to give him a chance to recruit (sadly, it didn't work out, but it was a good plan).

Peterson was also a great hire...until he wasn't.  Should have won here, but didn't and it was the right move to let him go.  RV should also get credit for Coach Mitchell.

RV was a great hire when we got him.  He did fantastic things while he was here, but as he would agree, if the people you hire don't work out, you will be the one to go.  Coach Dodge was a disaster and my biggest fault with RV is that he didn't pull the plug sooner.

Now, we have to bite the bullet for a while and it is what it is.

My thought are:

1) Don't complain about where we are.  Just show up.  It matters to the kids and coaches now.  It matters to the potential players and coaches in the future.

2) Wear your green wherever you go and be proud of your school.

Damn, I would have hated to see McCarney's recruiting if he had not got that five year contract and extension.  I think that whole concept is a load of garbage.   A bad recruiter is a bad recruiter no matter what his contract status is.   A successful coach at the G5 level is just as likely to be short term as a bad one.   However, I think HC status is far down the list on why a recruit goes to a school unless your dealing with 4 or 5 star level athletes who are going to power schools.    

Petersen looked like a big time signing for NT at the time despite rumors he was on his way out at Wake Forest.   However, he turned out to be a disastrous hire.   I will give RV credit for Mitchell, but you need to also throw Stephens into the mix.  Aston, for only a year; but probably his best major sport hc hire.   

RV was far from a great hire at anytime.  He stayed in the corner while Dickey badmouthed the school, then he failed miserably on most of his major hires.   Donations lack way behind most of our peers.   I would like to know when RV was great at his job.  

 

[EagleMBA]

24 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

Damn, I would have hated to see McCarney's recruiting if he had not got that five year contract and extension.  I think that whole concept is a load of garbage.   A bad recruiter is a bad recruiter no matter what his contract status is.   A successful coach at the G5 level is just as likely to be short term as a bad one.   However, I think HC status is far down the list on why a recruit goes to a school unless your dealing with 4 or 5 star level athletes who are going to power schools.    

Petersen looked like a big time signing for NT at the time despite rumors he was on his way out at Wake Forest.   However, he turned out to be a disastrous hire.   I will give RV credit for Mitchell, but you need to also throw Stephens into the mix.  Aston, for only a year; but probably his best major sport hc hire.   

RV was far from a great hire at anytime.  He stayed in the corner while Dickey badmouthed the school, then he failed miserably on most of his major hires.   Donations lack way behind most of our peers.   I would like to know when RV was great at his job.  

 

 

[FirefightnRick]

On June 24, 2016 at 10:33 AM, GTWT said:

Since that time Don Carthel has been fired for NCAA rules violation.  Great coach but I'm not unhappy he didn't come to UNT.

 

He was fired for buying two players a $30 ticket to a Ranger game, then made them reimburse him.  That wasn't the violation.  But he supposedly told them how to answer a question if ever asked about it, and somehow through that conversation concerning the whole thing ...was deemed to have violated an NCAA ethics clause.  He was fired in house and never charged directly by the NCAA.

Whether he did it or not it was an extremely minor issue.  It's not even in the same universe of what McCarney did when he beat his first wife while at Iowa St.

Carthel is one of the most respected and honorable coaches in Texas football with an overall record of 124-69-1.

What he did during a home game one time to help raise money for an opposing coache's wife who was fighting cancer was amazing.  He made his own players during halftime of a sold out game walk through the stands with buckets and take up a collection for her. 

That's a loving and honorable man.  I'd take him in a heartbeat without question.

 

Rick

[GTWT]

19 hours ago, FirefightnRick said:

 

He was fired for buying two players a $30 ticket to a Ranger game, then made them reimburse him.  That wasn't the violation.  But he supposedly told them how to answer a question if ever asked about it, and somehow through that conversation concerning the whole thing ...was deemed to have violated an NCAA ethics clause.  He was fired in house and never charged directly by the NCAA.

Whether he did it or not it was an extremely minor issue.  It's not even in the same universe of what McCarney did when he beat his first wife while at Iowa St.

Carthel is one of the most respected and honorable coaches in Texas football with an overall record of 124-69-1.

What he did during a home game one time to help raise money for an opposing coache's wife who was fighting cancer was amazing.  He made his own players during halftime of a sold out game walk through the stands with buckets and take up a collection for her. 

That's a loving and honorable man.  I'd take him in a heartbeat without question.

 

Rick

Don Carthel is a good man & a great coach.  He got crossways with those in the hierarchy above him.  Buying the Ranger's tickets was not a violation assuming the players paid him back.  Coaching the players what to say was dumb.

[VideoEagle]

4 minutes ago, GTWT said:

Don Carthel is a good man & a great coach.  He got crossways with those in the hierarchy above him.  Buying the Ranger's tickets was not a violation assuming the players paid him back.  Coaching the players what to say was dumb.

As is often the case, trying to cover something up is far, FAR worse than the original problem. Buying Ranger's tickets isn't a violation as long as the plan to pay the coach back was already in place BEFORE the NCAA started investigating. If you wait till there is a question and THEN say we'll pay him back it is a violation. But covering it up by coaching the players is a far worse violation. 

I'm not going to compare any NCAA rules violation to a criminal act such as domestic violence. Those are completely unrelated.  

[Cerebus]

On 6/25/2016 at 9:27 PM, GrandGreen said:

RV was far from a great hire at anytime.  He stayed in the corner while Dickey badmouthed the school, then he failed miserably on most of his major hires.   Donations lack way behind most of our peers.

He was the reason that Dickey bad mouthed the school.

Ever had a boss that constantly over promised and under delivered?  Who tried to hog the limelight when things were good and threw you under the bus when they were not?  Who got extremely defensive and vindictive when you criticized him, to the point he could no longer stand to be in the same room as you?   Then to top it all off when you complain to the higher ups, and other people come forward, the entire thing is ignored, for years?

 

[VideoEagle]

2 minutes ago, Cerebus said:

Ever had a boss that constantly over promised and under delivered?  Who tried to hog the limelight when things were good and threw you under the bus when they were not?  Who got extremely defensive and vindictive when you criticized him, to the point he could no longer stand to be in the same room as you?   

 

I didn't know we'd worked together. 

[meanrob]

8 hours ago, Cerebus said:

He was the reason that Dickey bad mouthed the school.

Ever had a boss that constantly over promised and under delivered?  Who tried to hog the limelight when things were good and threw you under the bus when they were not?  Who got extremely defensive and vindictive when you criticized him, to the point he could no longer stand to be in the same room as you?   Then to top it all off when you complain to the higher ups, and other people come forward, the entire thing is ignored, for years?

 

I said it then and still believe it now. If given a choice between keeping Dickey or RV I would have helped RV pack and paid for his bus ticket. 

Edited June 28, 2016 by meanrob

[DeepGreen]

Phew!  I can feel the RV love in this thread.

 

Carry on.

[Arkstfan]

I get that coaches "need" an extension for recruiting but if a coach is in a crack and doesn't have much in the way of options why does the extension have to guarantee every dollar? If you need to tell recruits you have three years on your contract, fine here's three years but we are only paying for the one you are still guaranteed unless you hit targets in the contract.

And I don't trust G5 coaches who want long deals when they renegotiate, just like MTSU's Stockstill deferring raises in exchange for a 2 1/2 year extension. I want guys who want to squeeze every possible dime out of me before they cash in buy winning the coaching powerball by going to a bigger job.

[UTSA Fan]

On Saturday, June 25, 2016 at 9:27 PM, GrandGreen said:

Damn, I would have hated to see McCarney's recruiting if he had not got that five year contract and extension.  I think that whole concept is a load of garbage.   A bad recruiter is a bad recruiter no matter what his contract status is.   A successful coach at the G5 level is just as likely to be short term as a bad one.   However, I think HC status is far down the list on why a recruit goes to a school unless your dealing with 4 or 5 star level athletes who are going to power schools.    

Petersen looked like a big time signing for NT at the time despite rumors he was on his way out at Wake Forest.   However, he turned out to be a disastrous hire.   I will give RV credit for Mitchell, but you need to also throw Stephens into the mix.  Aston, for only a year; but probably his best major sport hc hire.   

RV was far from a great hire at anytime.  He stayed in the corner while Dickey badmouthed the school, then he failed miserably on most of his major hires.   Donations lack way behind most of our peers.   I would like to know when RV was great at his job.  

 

He saved a lot of money on football scholarships?

[TreeFiddy]

At the meeting the other night, Trip debunked the myth that we had great facilities.  He said Apogee was great, but most of the rest is either average or below par and in need of repair.  

[UNT90]

35 minutes ago, TreeFiddy said:

At the meeting the other night, Trip debunked the myth that we had great facilities.  He said Apogee was great, but most of the rest is either average or below par and in need of repair.  

Yep. He also seemed to indicate he was surprised to find this was the case.

So the one "legacy" thing for the previous AD defenders to hang their hat on is gone. 

Turns out he was just a bad AD who conned people for years.

One of the most powerful abilities is the ability to execute personal manipulation. A confidence game is a strong one, and that's what the last AD ran here.

[FirefightnRick]

10 hours ago, UNT90 said:

Yep. He also seemed to indicate he was surprised to find this was the case.

So the one "legacy" thing for the previous AD defenders to hang their hat on is gone. 

Turns out he was just a bad AD who conned people for years.

One of the most powerful abilities is the ability to execute personal manipulation. A confidence game is a strong one, and that's what the last AD ran here.

This ^

 

 

Rick