Republicans and Democrats are idiots

[CMJ]

Immigrants 100 years ago were often mistrusted (they were often heads of unions and other things deemed unsavory).  Immigrants 100 years ago were demanding many radical (at the time) things.  As far as assimilation goes, there were large communities of Chinese, Poles, Irish, Italian, Czech and many other ethnicities who formed enclaves where they didn't have to learn much English.  There were dozens of German newspapers...written in GERMAN that had broad circulation.  One of the main reasons Prohibition ended up happening was because people were scared of all those damn German and Irish drunkards everywhere.

 

 

Things were not as different as one would believe.

Edited June 23, 2016 by CMJ

[HoustonEagle]

On ‎6‎/‎21‎/‎2016 at 11:33 AM, FirefightnRick said:

Agree, addressing guns when this is a radical Islamic terrorist issue is pretty stupid.

 

Rick

 

Case	Location	Date	Year	Summary	Fatalities	Wounded	Total victims
Orlando nightclub massacre	Orlando, Florida	6/12/2016	2016	Omar Mateen, 29, attacked the Pulse nighclub in Orlando in the early morning hours of June 12. (Further details pending.)	49	53	102
Excel Industries mass shooting	Hesston, Kansas	2/25/2016	2016	Cedric L. Ford, who worked as a painter at a manufacturing company, shot victims from his car and at his workplace before being killed by police at the scene. Shortly before the rampage he had been served with a restraining order.	3	14	17
Kalamazoo shooting spree	Kalamazoo County, Michigan	2/20/2016	2016	Jason B. Dalton, a driver for Uber, apparently selected his victims randomly as he went on a rampage over several hours in three different locations, including five people he shot in the parking lot of a Cracker Barrel restaurant. He was "arrested without incident" at a downtown Kalamazoo bar about six hours after the rampage began.	6	2	8
San Bernardino mass shooting	San Bernardino, California	12/2/2015	2015	Syed Rizwan Farook left a Christmas party held at Inland Regional Center, later returning with Tashfeen Malik and the two opened fire, killing 14 and wounding 21, ten critically. The two were later killed by police as they fled in an SUV.	14	21	35
Planned Parenthood clinic	Colorado Springs, Colorado	11/27/2015	2015	Robert Lewis Dear, 57, shot and killed a police officer and two citizens when he opened fire at a Planned Parenthood health clinic in Colorado Springs, Colorado. Nine others were wounded. Dear was arrested after an hours-long standoff with police.	3	9	12
Colorado Springs shooting rampage	Colorado Springs, Colorado	10/31/2015	2015	Noah Harpham, 33, shot three people before dead in Colorado Springs before police killed him in a shootout.	3	0	3
Umpqua Community College shooting	Roseburg, Oregon	10/1/2015	2015	26-year-old Chris Harper Mercer opened fire at Umpqua Community College in southwest Oregon. The gunman shot himself to death after being wounded in a shootout with police.	9	9	18
Chattanooga military recruitment center	Chattanooga, Tennessee	7/16/2015	2015	Kuwaiti-born Mohammod Youssuf Abdulazeez, 24, a naturalized US citizen, opened fire at a Naval reserve center, and then drove to a military recruitment office where he shot and killed four Marines and a Navy service member, and wounded a police officer and another military service member. He was then fatally shot in an exchange of gunfire with law enforcement officers responding to the attack.	5	2	7
Charleston Church Shooting	Charleston, South Carolina	6/17/2015	2015	Dylann Storm Roof, 21, shot and killed 9 people after opening fire at the Emanuel AME Church in Charleston, South Carolina. According to a roommate, he had allegedly been “planning something like that for six months."	9	1	10
Trestle Trail bridge shooting	Menasha, Wisconsin	6/11/2015	2015	Sergio Valencia del Toro, 27, in what officials say was a random act, shot and killed three people including an 11-year-old girl before turning the gun on himself.	3	1	4
Marysville-Pilchuck High School shooting	Marysville, Washington	10/24/2014	2014	Jaylen Fryberg, 15, using a .40-caliber Berretta, shot five students at Marysville High School, including two of his cousins and three friends, killing all but one. Fryberg arranged to meet them for lunch in the school cafeteria by text. Fryberg was reportedly well-liked at the school and there was not believed to be any ill-will between him and his victims. He committed suicide at the scene.	5	1	6
Isla Vista mass murder	Santa Barbara, California	5/23/2014	2014	Elliot Rodger, 22, shot three people to death in the college town of Isla Vista near the University of California, Santa Barbara. He also shot others as he drove around town, and injured others by striking them with is vehicle. He committed suicide by shooting himself in his car as police closed in. Prior to the rampage, Rodger stabbed three people to death at his apartment.	6	13	19
Fort Hood shooting 2	Fort Hood, Texas	4/3/2014	2014	Army Specialist Ivan Lopez, 34, opened fire at the Fort Hood Army Post in Texas, killing three and wounding at least 12 others before shooting himself in the head after engaging with military police. Lt. Gen. Mark A. Milley told reporters that Lopez "had behavioral health and mental health" issues.	3	12	15
Alturas tribal shooting	Alturas, California	2/20/2014	2014	Cherie Lash Rhoades, 44, opened fire at the Cedarville Rancheria Tribal Office and Community Center, killing four and wounding two. After running out of ammunition, Rhoades grabbed a butcher knife and stabbed another person.	4	2	6
Washington Navy Yard shooting	Washington, D.C.	9/16/2013	2013	Aaron Alexis, 34, a military veteran and contractor from Texas, opened fire in the Navy installation, killing 12 people and wounding 8 before being shot dead by police.	12	8	20
Hialeah apartment shooting	Hialeah, Florida	7/26/2013	2013	Pedro Vargas, 42, set fire to his apartment, killed six people in the complex, and held another two hostages at gunpoint before a SWAT team stormed the building and fatally shot him.	7	0	7
Santa Monica rampage	Santa Monica, California	6/7/2013	2013	John Zawahri, 23, armed with a homemade assault rifle and high-capacity magazines, killed his brother and father at home and then headed to Santa Monica College, where he was eventually killed by police.	6	3	9
Pinewood Village Apartment shooting	Federal Way, Washington	4/21/2013	2013	Dennis Clark III, 27, shot and killed his girlfriend in their shared apartment, and then shot two witnesses in the building's parking lot and a third victim in another apartment, before being killed by police.	5	0	5
Mohawk Valley shootings	Herkimer County, New York	3/13/2013	2013	Kurt Myers, 64, shot six people in neighboring towns, killing two in a barbershop and two at a car care business, before being killed by officers in a shootout after a nearly 19-hour standoff.	5	2	7
Newtown school shooting	Newtown, Connecticut	12/14/2012	2012	Adam Lanza, 20, shot his mother dead at their home then drove to Sandy Hook Elementary school. He forced his way inside and opened fire, killing 20 children and six adults before committing suicide.	28	2	30
Accent Signage Systems shooting	Minneapolis, Minnesota	9/27/2012	2012	Andrew Engeldinger, 36, upon learning he was being fired, went on a shooting rampage, killing the business owner, three fellow employees, and a UPS driver. He then killed himself.	7	1	8
Sikh temple shooting	Oak Creek, Wisconsin	8/5/2012	2012	U.S. Army veteran Wade Michael Page, 40, opened fire in a Sikh gurdwara before he died from a self-inflicted gunshot would during a shootout with police.	7	3	10
Aurora theater shooting	Aurora, Colorado	7/20/2012	2012	James Holmes, 24, opened fire in a movie theater during the opening night of "The Dark Night Rises" and was later arrested outside.	12	58	70
Seattle cafe shooting	Seattle, Washington	5/20/2012	2012	Ian Stawicki, 40, gunned down four patrons at a cafe, and another person during a carjacking nearby, then shot himself as police closed in. (He died later that day in a Seattle hospital.)	6	1	7
Oikos University killings	Oakland, California	4/2/2012	2012	One L. Goh, 43, a former student, opened fire in a nursing classroom. He fled the scene by car and was arrested nearby a few hours later.	7	3	10
Su Jung Health Sauna shooting	Norcross, Georgia	2/22/2012	2012	Jeong Soo Paek, 59, returned to a Korean spa from which he'd been kicked out after an altercation. He gunned down two of his sisters and their husbands before committing suicide.	5	0	5
Seal Beach shooting	Seal Beach, California	10/14/2011	2011	Scott Evans Dekraai, 42, opened fire inside a hair salon and was later arrested.	8	1	9
IHOP shooting	Carson City, Nevada	9/6/2011	2011	Eduardo Sencion, 32, opened fire at an International House of Pancakes restaurant and later died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound.	5	7	12
Tucson shooting	Tucson, Arizona	1/8/2011	2011	Jared Loughner, 22, opened fire outside a Safeway during a constituent meeting with Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.) before he was subdued by bystanders and arrested.	6	13	19
Hartford Beer Distributor shooting	Manchester, Connecticut	8/3/2010	2010	Omar S. Thornton, 34, shot up his Hartford Beer Distributor workplace after facing disciplinary issues, then committed suicide.	9	2	11
Coffee shop police killings	Parkland, Washington	11/29/2009	2009	Maurice Clemmons, 37, a felon who was out on bail for child-rape charges, entered a coffee shop on a Sunday morning and shot four police officers who had gone there to use their laptops before their shifts. Clemmons, who was wounded fleeing the scene, was later shot dead by a police officer in Seattle after a two-day manhunt.	4	1	5
Fort Hood massacre	Fort Hood, Texas	11/5/2009	2009	Army psychiatrist Nidal Malik Hasan, 39, opened fire on an Army base in an attack linked to Islamist extremism. Hasan was injured during the attack and later arrested.	13	30	43
Binghamton shootings	Binghamton, New York	4/3/2009	2009	Jiverly Wong, 41, opened fire at an American Civic Association center for immigrants before committing suicide.	14	4	18
Carthage nursing home shooting	Carthage, North Carolina	3/29/2009	2009	Robert Stewart, 45, opened fire at a nursing home where his estranged wife worked before he was shot and arrested by a police officer.	8	3	11
Atlantis Plastics shooting	Henderson, Kentucky	6/25/2008	2008	Disgruntled employee Wesley Neal Higdon, 25, shot up an Atlantis Plastics factory after he was escorted out of his workplace for an argument with a supervisor. Higdon shot the supervisor outside the factory before opening fire on coworkers inside. He then committed suicide.	6	1	7
Northern Illinois University shooting	DeKalb, Illinois	2/14/2008	2008	Steven Kazmierczak, 27, opened fire in a lecture hall, then shot and killed himself before police arrived.	6	21	27
Kirkwood City Council shooting	Kirkwood, Missouri	2/7/2008	2008	Charles "Cookie" Lee Thornton, 52, went on a rampage at the city hall before being shot and killed by police.	6	2	8
Westroads Mall shooting	Omaha, Nebraska	12/5/2007	2007	Robert A. Hawkins, 19, opened fire inside Westroads Mall before committing suicide.	9	4	13
Crandon shooting	Crandon, Wisconsin	10/7/2007	2007	Off-duty sheriff's deputy Tyler Peterson, 20, opened fire inside an apartment after an argument at a homecoming party. He fled the scene and later committed suicide.	6	1	7
Virginia Tech massacre	Blacksburg, Virginia	4/16/2007	2007	Virginia Tech student Seung-Hui Cho, 23, opened fire on his school's campus before committing suicide.	33	23	56
Trolley Square shooting	Salt Lake City, Utah	2/12/2007	2007	Sulejman Talović, 18, rampaged through the shopping center until he was shot dead by police.	6	4	10
Amish school shooting	Lancaster County, Pennsylvania	10/2/2006	2006	Charles Carl Roberts, 32, shot 10 young girls in a one-room schoolhouse in Bart Township, killing 5, before taking his own life.	6	5	11
Capitol Hill massacre	Seattle, Washington	3/25/2006	2006	Kyle Aaron Huff, 28, opened fire at a rave afterparty in the Capitol Hill neighborhood of Seattle before committing suicide.	7	2	9
Goleta postal shootings	Goleta, California	1/30/2006	2006	Former postal worker Jennifer Sanmarco, 44, shot dead a former neighbor then drove to the mail processing plant where she used to work. Inside, she opened fire, killing six employees before committing suicide.	8	0	8
Red Lake massacre	Red Lake, Minnesota	3/21/2005	2005	Jeffrey Weise, 16, murdered his grandfather, who was a police officer, and grandfather's girlfriend. Weise then drove his grandfather's squad car to Red Lake Senior High School and opened fire on the reservation campus, killing another seven people before committing suicide.	10	5	15
Living Church of God shooting	Brookfield, Wisconsin	3/12/2005	2005	Living Church of God member Terry Michael Ratzmann, 44, opened fire at a church meeting at a Sheraton hotel before committing suicide.	7	4	11
Damageplan show shooting	Columbus, Ohio	12/8/2004	2004	Nathan Gale, 25, possibly upset about the breakup of Pantera, gunned down former Pantera guitarist Dimebag Darrell and three others at a Damageplan show before a police officer fatally shot Gale.	5	7	12
Lockheed Martin shooting	Meridian, Mississippi	7/8/2003	2003	Assembly line worker Douglas Williams, 48, opened fire at his Lockheed Martin workplace in a racially motivated attack before committing suicide.	7	8	15
Navistar shooting	Melrose Park, Illinois	2/5/2001	2001	Fired employee William D. Baker, 66, opened fire at his former Navistar workplace before committing suicide.	5	4	9
Wakefield massacre	Wakefield, Massachusetts	12/26/2000	2000	Michael McDermott, 42, opened fire on co-workers at Edgewater Technology and was later arrested.	7	0	7
Hotel shooting	Tampa, Florida	12/30/1999	1999	Hotel employee Silvio Leyva, 36, gunned down four coworkers at the Radisson Bay Harbor Inn before killing a woman outside who refused to give him her car. He was arrested shortly after the shootings.	5	3	8
Xerox killings	Honolulu, Hawaii	11/2/1999	1999	Byran Koji Uyesugi, 40, a Xerox service technician, opened fire inside the building with a 9mm Glock. He fled and was later apprehended by police.	7	0	7
Wedgwood Baptist Church shooting	Fort Worth, Texas	9/15/1999	1999	Larry Gene Ashbrook, 47, opened fire inside the Wedgwood Baptist Church during a prayer rally before committing suicide.	8	7	15
Atlanta day trading spree killings	Atlanta, Georgia	7/29/1999	1999	Day trader Mark O. Barton, 44, who had recently lost a substantial sum of money, went on a shooting spree through two day-trading firms. He started at the All-Tech Investment Group, where he worked, then went on to Momentum Securities. He fled and hours later, after being cornered by police outside a gas station, committed suicide. (Two days before the spree, he killed his wife and two children with a hammer.)	9	13	22
Columbine High School massacre	Littleton, Colorado	4/20/1999	1999	Eric Harris, 18, and Dylan Klebold, 17, opened fire throughout Columbine High School before committing suicide.	13	24	37
Thurston High School shooting	Springfield, Oregon	5/21/1998	1998	After he was expelled for having a gun in his locker, Kipland P. Kinkel, 15, a freshman at Thurston High, went on a shooting spree, killing his parents at home and two students at school. Five classmates wrestled Kipland to the ground before he was arrested.	4	25	29
Westside Middle School killings	Jonesboro, Arkansas	3/24/1998	1998	Mitchell Scott Johnson, 13, and Andrew Douglas Golden, 11, two juveniles, ambushed students and teachers as they left the school; they were apprehended by police at the scene.	5	10	15
Connecticut Lottery shooting	Newington, Connecticut	3/6/1998	1998	Lottery worker Matthew Beck, 35, gunned down four bosses over a salary dispute before committing suicide.	5	1	6
Caltrans maintenance yard shooting	Orange, California	12/18/1997	1997	Former Caltrans employee Arturo Reyes Torres, 41, opened fire at a maintenance yard after he was fired for allegedly selling government materials he'd stolen from work. He was shot dead by police.	5	2	7
R.E. Phelon Company shooting	Aiken, South Carolina	9/15/1997	1997	Ex-con Hastings Arthur Wise, 43, opened fire at the R.E. Phelon Company in retaliation for being fired after an argument with a supervisor. He attempted suicide by ingesting insecticide, failed, and was executed by the state of South Carolina eight years later.	4	3	7
Fort Lauderdale revenge shooting	Fort Lauderdale, Florida	2/9/1996	1996	Fired city park employee Clifton McCree, 41, opened fire on former coworkers he called "racist devils" inside their municipal trailer in an act of revenge after failing a drug test. He then committed suicide.	6	1	7
Walter Rossler Company massacre	Corpus Christi, Texas	4/3/1995	1995	Disgruntled former metallurgist James Daniel Simpson, 28, opened fire throughout the Walter Rossler Company where he had worked before exiting the building and committing suicide.	6	0	6
Air Force base shooting	Fairchild Air Force Base, Washington	6/20/1994	1994	Former airman Dean Allen Mellberg, 20, opened fire inside a hospital at the Fairchild Air Force Base before he was shot dead by a military police officer outside.	5	23	28
Chuck E. Cheese's killings	Aurora, Colorado	12/14/1993	1993	Nathan Dunlap, 19, a recently fired Chuck E. Cheese's employee, went on a rampage through his former workplace and was arrested the following day. He now awaits execution on death row.	4	1	5
Long Island Rail Road massacre	Garden City, New York	12/7/1993	1993	Colin Ferguson, 35, opened fire on an eastbound Long Island Rail Road train as it approached a Garden City station. He was later arrested.	6	19	25
Luigi's shooting	Fayetteville, North Carolina	8/6/1993	1993	Army Sgt. Kenneth Junior French, 22, opened fire inside Luigi's Italian restaurant while ranting about gays in the military before he was shot and arrested by police.	4	8	12
101 California Street shootings	San Francisco, California	7/1/1993	1993	Failed businessman Gian Luigi Ferri, 55, opened fire throughout an office building before he committed suicide inside as police pursued him.	9	6	15
Watkins Glen killings	Watkins Glen, New York	10/15/1992	1992	John T. Miller, 50, killed four child-support workers in a county office building before turning the gun on himself.  Miller was upset about a court order garnishing his paycheck to cover overdue child-support payments.	5	0	5
Lindhurst High School shooting	Olivehurst, California	5/1/1992	1992	Former Lindhurst High School student Eric Houston, 20, angry about various personal failings, killed three students and a teacher at the school before surrendering to police after an eight-hour standoff. He was later sentenced to death.	4	10	14
Royal Oak postal shootings	Royal Oak, Michigan	11/14/1991	1991	Laid-off postal worker Thomas McIlvane, 31, opened fire at his former workplace before committing suicide.	5	5	10
University of Iowa shooting	Iowa City, Iowa	11/1/1991	1991	Former graduate student Gang Lu, 28, went on a rampage on campus and then committed suicide at the scene.	6	1	7
Luby's massacre	Killeen, Texas	10/16/1991	1991	George Hennard, 35, drove his pickup truck into a Luby's cafeteria and opened fire before committing suicide.	24	20	44
GMAC massacre	Jacksonville, Florida	6/18/1990	1990	James Edward Pough, 42, opened fire at a General Motors Acceptance Corporation office before committing suicide. (The day prior, Pough killed a pimp and prostitute and injured two others. Those victims are not included in the mass murder count.)	10	4	14
Standard Gravure shooting	Louisville, Kentucky	9/14/1989	1989	Joseph T. Wesbecker, 47, gunned down eight people at his former workplace before committing suicide.	9	12	21
Stockton schoolyard shooting	Stockton, California	1/17/1989	1989	Patrick Purdy, 26, an alcoholic with a police record, launched an assault at Cleveland Elementary School, where many young Southeast Asian immigrants were enrolled. Purdy killed himself with a shot to the head.	6	29	35
ESL shooting	Sunnyvale, California	2/16/1988	1988	Former ESL Incorporated employee Richard Farley, 39, gunned down seven people at his former workplace. He was later arrested and now sits on death row at San Quentin.	7	4	11
Shopping centers spree killings	Palm Bay, Florida	4/23/1987	1987	Retired librarian William Cruse, 59, was paranoid neighbors gossiped that he was gay. He drove to a Publix supermarket, killing two Florida Tech students en route before opening fire outside and killing a woman. He then drove to a Winn-Dixie supermarket and killed three more, including two police officers. Cruse was arrested after taking a hostage and died on death row in 2009.	6	14	20
United States Postal Service shooting	Edmond, Oklahoma	8/20/1986	1986	Postal worker Patrick Sherrill, 44, opened fire at a post office before committing suicide.	15	6	21
San Ysidro McDonald's massacre	San Ysidro, California	7/18/1984	1984	James Oliver Huberty, 41, opened fire in a McDonald's restaurant before he was shot dead by a police officer.	22	19	41
Dallas nightclub shooting	Dallas, Texas	6/29/1984	1984	Abdelkrim Belachheb, 39, opened fire at an upscale nightclub after a woman rejected his advances. He was later arrested.	6	1	7
Welding shop shooting	Miami, Florida	8/20/1982	1982	Junior high school teacher Carl Robert Brown, 51, opened fire inside a welding shop and was later shot dead by a witness as he fled the scene.	8	3	11

[Censored by Laurie]

7 minutes ago, HoustonEagle said:

Case	Location	Date	Year	Summary	Fatalities	Wounded	Total victims
Orlando nightclub massacre	Orlando, Florida	6/12/2016	2016	Omar Mateen, 29, attacked the Pulse nighclub in Orlando in the early morning hours of June 12. (Further details pending.)	49	53	102
Excel Industries mass shooting	Hesston, Kansas	2/25/2016	2016	Cedric L. Ford, who worked as a painter at a manufacturing company, shot victims from his car and at his workplace before being killed by police at the scene. Shortly before the rampage he had been served with a restraining order.	3	14	17
Kalamazoo shooting spree	Kalamazoo County, Michigan	2/20/2016	2016	Jason B. Dalton, a driver for Uber, apparently selected his victims randomly as he went on a rampage over several hours in three different locations, including five people he shot in the parking lot of a Cracker Barrel restaurant. He was "arrested without incident" at a downtown Kalamazoo bar about six hours after the rampage began.	6	2	8
San Bernardino mass shooting	San Bernardino, California	12/2/2015	2015	Syed Rizwan Farook left a Christmas party held at Inland Regional Center, later returning with Tashfeen Malik and the two opened fire, killing 14 and wounding 21, ten critically. The two were later killed by police as they fled in an SUV.	14	21	35
Planned Parenthood clinic	Colorado Springs, Colorado	11/27/2015	2015	Robert Lewis Dear, 57, shot and killed a police officer and two citizens when he opened fire at a Planned Parenthood health clinic in Colorado Springs, Colorado. Nine others were wounded. Dear was arrested after an hours-long standoff with police.	3	9	12
Colorado Springs shooting rampage	Colorado Springs, Colorado	10/31/2015	2015	Noah Harpham, 33, shot three people before dead in Colorado Springs before police killed him in a shootout.	3	0	3
Umpqua Community College shooting	Roseburg, Oregon	10/1/2015	2015	26-year-old Chris Harper Mercer opened fire at Umpqua Community College in southwest Oregon. The gunman shot himself to death after being wounded in a shootout with police.	9	9	18
Chattanooga military recruitment center	Chattanooga, Tennessee	7/16/2015	2015	Kuwaiti-born Mohammod Youssuf Abdulazeez, 24, a naturalized US citizen, opened fire at a Naval reserve center, and then drove to a military recruitment office where he shot and killed four Marines and a Navy service member, and wounded a police officer and another military service member. He was then fatally shot in an exchange of gunfire with law enforcement officers responding to the attack.	5	2	7
Charleston Church Shooting	Charleston, South Carolina	6/17/2015	2015	Dylann Storm Roof, 21, shot and killed 9 people after opening fire at the Emanuel AME Church in Charleston, South Carolina. According to a roommate, he had allegedly been “planning something like that for six months."	9	1	10
Trestle Trail bridge shooting	Menasha, Wisconsin	6/11/2015	2015	Sergio Valencia del Toro, 27, in what officials say was a random act, shot and killed three people including an 11-year-old girl before turning the gun on himself.	3	1	4
Marysville-Pilchuck High School shooting	Marysville, Washington	10/24/2014	2014	Jaylen Fryberg, 15, using a .40-caliber Berretta, shot five students at Marysville High School, including two of his cousins and three friends, killing all but one. Fryberg arranged to meet them for lunch in the school cafeteria by text. Fryberg was reportedly well-liked at the school and there was not believed to be any ill-will between him and his victims. He committed suicide at the scene.	5	1	6
Isla Vista mass murder	Santa Barbara, California	5/23/2014	2014	Elliot Rodger, 22, shot three people to death in the college town of Isla Vista near the University of California, Santa Barbara. He also shot others as he drove around town, and injured others by striking them with is vehicle. He committed suicide by shooting himself in his car as police closed in. Prior to the rampage, Rodger stabbed three people to death at his apartment.	6	13	19
Fort Hood shooting 2	Fort Hood, Texas	4/3/2014	2014	Army Specialist Ivan Lopez, 34, opened fire at the Fort Hood Army Post in Texas, killing three and wounding at least 12 others before shooting himself in the head after engaging with military police. Lt. Gen. Mark A. Milley told reporters that Lopez "had behavioral health and mental health" issues.	3	12	15
Alturas tribal shooting	Alturas, California	2/20/2014	2014	Cherie Lash Rhoades, 44, opened fire at the Cedarville Rancheria Tribal Office and Community Center, killing four and wounding two. After running out of ammunition, Rhoades grabbed a butcher knife and stabbed another person.	4	2	6
Washington Navy Yard shooting	Washington, D.C.	9/16/2013	2013	Aaron Alexis, 34, a military veteran and contractor from Texas, opened fire in the Navy installation, killing 12 people and wounding 8 before being shot dead by police.	12	8	20
Hialeah apartment shooting	Hialeah, Florida	7/26/2013	2013	Pedro Vargas, 42, set fire to his apartment, killed six people in the complex, and held another two hostages at gunpoint before a SWAT team stormed the building and fatally shot him.	7	0	7
Santa Monica rampage	Santa Monica, California	6/7/2013	2013	John Zawahri, 23, armed with a homemade assault rifle and high-capacity magazines, killed his brother and father at home and then headed to Santa Monica College, where he was eventually killed by police.	6	3	9
Pinewood Village Apartment shooting	Federal Way, Washington	4/21/2013	2013	Dennis Clark III, 27, shot and killed his girlfriend in their shared apartment, and then shot two witnesses in the building's parking lot and a third victim in another apartment, before being killed by police.	5	0	5
Mohawk Valley shootings	Herkimer County, New York	3/13/2013	2013	Kurt Myers, 64, shot six people in neighboring towns, killing two in a barbershop and two at a car care business, before being killed by officers in a shootout after a nearly 19-hour standoff.	5	2	7
Newtown school shooting	Newtown, Connecticut	12/14/2012	2012	Adam Lanza, 20, shot his mother dead at their home then drove to Sandy Hook Elementary school. He forced his way inside and opened fire, killing 20 children and six adults before committing suicide.	28	2	30
Accent Signage Systems shooting	Minneapolis, Minnesota	9/27/2012	2012	Andrew Engeldinger, 36, upon learning he was being fired, went on a shooting rampage, killing the business owner, three fellow employees, and a UPS driver. He then killed himself.	7	1	8
Sikh temple shooting	Oak Creek, Wisconsin	8/5/2012	2012	U.S. Army veteran Wade Michael Page, 40, opened fire in a Sikh gurdwara before he died from a self-inflicted gunshot would during a shootout with police.	7	3	10
Aurora theater shooting	Aurora, Colorado	7/20/2012	2012	James Holmes, 24, opened fire in a movie theater during the opening night of "The Dark Night Rises" and was later arrested outside.	12	58	70
Seattle cafe shooting	Seattle, Washington	5/20/2012	2012	Ian Stawicki, 40, gunned down four patrons at a cafe, and another person during a carjacking nearby, then shot himself as police closed in. (He died later that day in a Seattle hospital.)	6	1	7
Oikos University killings	Oakland, California	4/2/2012	2012	One L. Goh, 43, a former student, opened fire in a nursing classroom. He fled the scene by car and was arrested nearby a few hours later.	7	3	10
Su Jung Health Sauna shooting	Norcross, Georgia	2/22/2012	2012	Jeong Soo Paek, 59, returned to a Korean spa from which he'd been kicked out after an altercation. He gunned down two of his sisters and their husbands before committing suicide.	5	0	5
Seal Beach shooting	Seal Beach, California	10/14/2011	2011	Scott Evans Dekraai, 42, opened fire inside a hair salon and was later arrested.	8	1	9
IHOP shooting	Carson City, Nevada	9/6/2011	2011	Eduardo Sencion, 32, opened fire at an International House of Pancakes restaurant and later died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound.	5	7	12
Tucson shooting	Tucson, Arizona	1/8/2011	2011	Jared Loughner, 22, opened fire outside a Safeway during a constituent meeting with Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.) before he was subdued by bystanders and arrested.	6	13	19
Hartford Beer Distributor shooting	Manchester, Connecticut	8/3/2010	2010	Omar S. Thornton, 34, shot up his Hartford Beer Distributor workplace after facing disciplinary issues, then committed suicide.	9	2	11
Coffee shop police killings	Parkland, Washington	11/29/2009	2009	Maurice Clemmons, 37, a felon who was out on bail for child-rape charges, entered a coffee shop on a Sunday morning and shot four police officers who had gone there to use their laptops before their shifts. Clemmons, who was wounded fleeing the scene, was later shot dead by a police officer in Seattle after a two-day manhunt.	4	1	5
Fort Hood massacre	Fort Hood, Texas	11/5/2009	2009	Army psychiatrist Nidal Malik Hasan, 39, opened fire on an Army base in an attack linked to Islamist extremism. Hasan was injured during the attack and later arrested.	13	30	43
Binghamton shootings	Binghamton, New York	4/3/2009	2009	Jiverly Wong, 41, opened fire at an American Civic Association center for immigrants before committing suicide.	14	4	18
Carthage nursing home shooting	Carthage, North Carolina	3/29/2009	2009	Robert Stewart, 45, opened fire at a nursing home where his estranged wife worked before he was shot and arrested by a police officer.	8	3	11
Atlantis Plastics shooting	Henderson, Kentucky	6/25/2008	2008	Disgruntled employee Wesley Neal Higdon, 25, shot up an Atlantis Plastics factory after he was escorted out of his workplace for an argument with a supervisor. Higdon shot the supervisor outside the factory before opening fire on coworkers inside. He then committed suicide.	6	1	7
Northern Illinois University shooting	DeKalb, Illinois	2/14/2008	2008	Steven Kazmierczak, 27, opened fire in a lecture hall, then shot and killed himself before police arrived.	6	21	27
Kirkwood City Council shooting	Kirkwood, Missouri	2/7/2008	2008	Charles "Cookie" Lee Thornton, 52, went on a rampage at the city hall before being shot and killed by police.	6	2	8
Westroads Mall shooting	Omaha, Nebraska	12/5/2007	2007	Robert A. Hawkins, 19, opened fire inside Westroads Mall before committing suicide.	9	4	13
Crandon shooting	Crandon, Wisconsin	10/7/2007	2007	Off-duty sheriff's deputy Tyler Peterson, 20, opened fire inside an apartment after an argument at a homecoming party. He fled the scene and later committed suicide.	6	1	7
Virginia Tech massacre	Blacksburg, Virginia	4/16/2007	2007	Virginia Tech student Seung-Hui Cho, 23, opened fire on his school's campus before committing suicide.	33	23	56
Trolley Square shooting	Salt Lake City, Utah	2/12/2007	2007	Sulejman Talović, 18, rampaged through the shopping center until he was shot dead by police.	6	4	10
Amish school shooting	Lancaster County, Pennsylvania	10/2/2006	2006	Charles Carl Roberts, 32, shot 10 young girls in a one-room schoolhouse in Bart Township, killing 5, before taking his own life.	6	5	11
Capitol Hill massacre	Seattle, Washington	3/25/2006	2006	Kyle Aaron Huff, 28, opened fire at a rave afterparty in the Capitol Hill neighborhood of Seattle before committing suicide.	7	2	9
Goleta postal shootings	Goleta, California	1/30/2006	2006	Former postal worker Jennifer Sanmarco, 44, shot dead a former neighbor then drove to the mail processing plant where she used to work. Inside, she opened fire, killing six employees before committing suicide.	8	0	8
Red Lake massacre	Red Lake, Minnesota	3/21/2005	2005	Jeffrey Weise, 16, murdered his grandfather, who was a police officer, and grandfather's girlfriend. Weise then drove his grandfather's squad car to Red Lake Senior High School and opened fire on the reservation campus, killing another seven people before committing suicide.	10	5	15
Living Church of God shooting	Brookfield, Wisconsin	3/12/2005	2005	Living Church of God member Terry Michael Ratzmann, 44, opened fire at a church meeting at a Sheraton hotel before committing suicide.	7	4	11
Damageplan show shooting	Columbus, Ohio	12/8/2004	2004	Nathan Gale, 25, possibly upset about the breakup of Pantera, gunned down former Pantera guitarist Dimebag Darrell and three others at a Damageplan show before a police officer fatally shot Gale.	5	7	12
Lockheed Martin shooting	Meridian, Mississippi	7/8/2003	2003	Assembly line worker Douglas Williams, 48, opened fire at his Lockheed Martin workplace in a racially motivated attack before committing suicide.	7	8	15
Navistar shooting	Melrose Park, Illinois	2/5/2001	2001	Fired employee William D. Baker, 66, opened fire at his former Navistar workplace before committing suicide.	5	4	9
Wakefield massacre	Wakefield, Massachusetts	12/26/2000	2000	Michael McDermott, 42, opened fire on co-workers at Edgewater Technology and was later arrested.	7	0	7
Hotel shooting	Tampa, Florida	12/30/1999	1999	Hotel employee Silvio Leyva, 36, gunned down four coworkers at the Radisson Bay Harbor Inn before killing a woman outside who refused to give him her car. He was arrested shortly after the shootings.	5	3	8
Xerox killings	Honolulu, Hawaii	11/2/1999	1999	Byran Koji Uyesugi, 40, a Xerox service technician, opened fire inside the building with a 9mm Glock. He fled and was later apprehended by police.	7	0	7
Wedgwood Baptist Church shooting	Fort Worth, Texas	9/15/1999	1999	Larry Gene Ashbrook, 47, opened fire inside the Wedgwood Baptist Church during a prayer rally before committing suicide.	8	7	15
Atlanta day trading spree killings	Atlanta, Georgia	7/29/1999	1999	Day trader Mark O. Barton, 44, who had recently lost a substantial sum of money, went on a shooting spree through two day-trading firms. He started at the All-Tech Investment Group, where he worked, then went on to Momentum Securities. He fled and hours later, after being cornered by police outside a gas station, committed suicide. (Two days before the spree, he killed his wife and two children with a hammer.)	9	13	22
Columbine High School massacre	Littleton, Colorado	4/20/1999	1999	Eric Harris, 18, and Dylan Klebold, 17, opened fire throughout Columbine High School before committing suicide.	13	24	37
Thurston High School shooting	Springfield, Oregon	5/21/1998	1998	After he was expelled for having a gun in his locker, Kipland P. Kinkel, 15, a freshman at Thurston High, went on a shooting spree, killing his parents at home and two students at school. Five classmates wrestled Kipland to the ground before he was arrested.	4	25	29
Westside Middle School killings	Jonesboro, Arkansas	3/24/1998	1998	Mitchell Scott Johnson, 13, and Andrew Douglas Golden, 11, two juveniles, ambushed students and teachers as they left the school; they were apprehended by police at the scene.	5	10	15
Connecticut Lottery shooting	Newington, Connecticut	3/6/1998	1998	Lottery worker Matthew Beck, 35, gunned down four bosses over a salary dispute before committing suicide.	5	1	6
Caltrans maintenance yard shooting	Orange, California	12/18/1997	1997	Former Caltrans employee Arturo Reyes Torres, 41, opened fire at a maintenance yard after he was fired for allegedly selling government materials he'd stolen from work. He was shot dead by police.	5	2	7
R.E. Phelon Company shooting	Aiken, South Carolina	9/15/1997	1997	Ex-con Hastings Arthur Wise, 43, opened fire at the R.E. Phelon Company in retaliation for being fired after an argument with a supervisor. He attempted suicide by ingesting insecticide, failed, and was executed by the state of South Carolina eight years later.	4	3	7
Fort Lauderdale revenge shooting	Fort Lauderdale, Florida	2/9/1996	1996	Fired city park employee Clifton McCree, 41, opened fire on former coworkers he called "racist devils" inside their municipal trailer in an act of revenge after failing a drug test. He then committed suicide.	6	1	7
Walter Rossler Company massacre	Corpus Christi, Texas	4/3/1995	1995	Disgruntled former metallurgist James Daniel Simpson, 28, opened fire throughout the Walter Rossler Company where he had worked before exiting the building and committing suicide.	6	0	6
Air Force base shooting	Fairchild Air Force Base, Washington	6/20/1994	1994	Former airman Dean Allen Mellberg, 20, opened fire inside a hospital at the Fairchild Air Force Base before he was shot dead by a military police officer outside.	5	23	28
Chuck E. Cheese's killings	Aurora, Colorado	12/14/1993	1993	Nathan Dunlap, 19, a recently fired Chuck E. Cheese's employee, went on a rampage through his former workplace and was arrested the following day. He now awaits execution on death row.	4	1	5
Long Island Rail Road massacre	Garden City, New York	12/7/1993	1993	Colin Ferguson, 35, opened fire on an eastbound Long Island Rail Road train as it approached a Garden City station. He was later arrested.	6	19	25
Luigi's shooting	Fayetteville, North Carolina	8/6/1993	1993	Army Sgt. Kenneth Junior French, 22, opened fire inside Luigi's Italian restaurant while ranting about gays in the military before he was shot and arrested by police.	4	8	12
101 California Street shootings	San Francisco, California	7/1/1993	1993	Failed businessman Gian Luigi Ferri, 55, opened fire throughout an office building before he committed suicide inside as police pursued him.	9	6	15
Watkins Glen killings	Watkins Glen, New York	10/15/1992	1992	John T. Miller, 50, killed four child-support workers in a county office building before turning the gun on himself.  Miller was upset about a court order garnishing his paycheck to cover overdue child-support payments.	5	0	5
Lindhurst High School shooting	Olivehurst, California	5/1/1992	1992	Former Lindhurst High School student Eric Houston, 20, angry about various personal failings, killed three students and a teacher at the school before surrendering to police after an eight-hour standoff. He was later sentenced to death.	4	10	14
Royal Oak postal shootings	Royal Oak, Michigan	11/14/1991	1991	Laid-off postal worker Thomas McIlvane, 31, opened fire at his former workplace before committing suicide.	5	5	10
University of Iowa shooting	Iowa City, Iowa	11/1/1991	1991	Former graduate student Gang Lu, 28, went on a rampage on campus and then committed suicide at the scene.	6	1	7
Luby's massacre	Killeen, Texas	10/16/1991	1991	George Hennard, 35, drove his pickup truck into a Luby's cafeteria and opened fire before committing suicide.	24	20	44
GMAC massacre	Jacksonville, Florida	6/18/1990	1990	James Edward Pough, 42, opened fire at a General Motors Acceptance Corporation office before committing suicide. (The day prior, Pough killed a pimp and prostitute and injured two others. Those victims are not included in the mass murder count.)	10	4	14
Standard Gravure shooting	Louisville, Kentucky	9/14/1989	1989	Joseph T. Wesbecker, 47, gunned down eight people at his former workplace before committing suicide.	9	12	21
Stockton schoolyard shooting	Stockton, California	1/17/1989	1989	Patrick Purdy, 26, an alcoholic with a police record, launched an assault at Cleveland Elementary School, where many young Southeast Asian immigrants were enrolled. Purdy killed himself with a shot to the head.	6	29	35
ESL shooting	Sunnyvale, California	2/16/1988	1988	Former ESL Incorporated employee Richard Farley, 39, gunned down seven people at his former workplace. He was later arrested and now sits on death row at San Quentin.	7	4	11
Shopping centers spree killings	Palm Bay, Florida	4/23/1987	1987	Retired librarian William Cruse, 59, was paranoid neighbors gossiped that he was gay. He drove to a Publix supermarket, killing two Florida Tech students en route before opening fire outside and killing a woman. He then drove to a Winn-Dixie supermarket and killed three more, including two police officers. Cruse was arrested after taking a hostage and died on death row in 2009.	6	14	20
United States Postal Service shooting	Edmond, Oklahoma	8/20/1986	1986	Postal worker Patrick Sherrill, 44, opened fire at a post office before committing suicide.	15	6	21
San Ysidro McDonald's massacre	San Ysidro, California	7/18/1984	1984	James Oliver Huberty, 41, opened fire in a McDonald's restaurant before he was shot dead by a police officer.	22	19	41
Dallas nightclub shooting	Dallas, Texas	6/29/1984	1984	Abdelkrim Belachheb, 39, opened fire at an upscale nightclub after a woman rejected his advances. He was later arrested.	6	1	7
Welding shop shooting	Miami, Florida	8/20/1982	1982	Junior high school teacher Carl Robert Brown, 51, opened fire inside a welding shop and was later shot dead by a witness as he fled the scene.	8	3	11

every one was the fault of Muslims.
 

 

and Obama.

and Muslim-Obama.

and Mexicans.

and all immigrants.

and the EU. 

and open borders

 

 

[HoustonEagle]

1 hour ago, Censored by Laurie said:

every one was the fault of Muslims.
 

 

and Obama.

and Muslim-Obama.

and Mexicans.

and all immigrants.

and the EU. 

and open borders

 

 

Thing is I am a gun owner and a believer in our right to be gun owners.  With that said I am not blind to the facts and thus why I posted that list.  There needs to be a national discussion about where we draw the line with gun ownership.  There will always be crazies in this world.  There always has been there always will be.  Those crazies come in every shape, color and ideology. Radical factions of Islam are absolutely becoming an ever increasing threat to personal and public security.  But, if we allow that to give us tunnel vision we lose sight of a larger problem.  Mental health, economic stagnation, and the oversaturation of negative media, amongst other things, pushes more and more over the line. When they cross the line it is so incredibly easy for a person to obtain high capacity semi-auto weapons.  There is a lot to be debated on this issue and everyone needs to come to the table. 

Edited June 24, 2016 by HoustonEagle

[MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF]

22 hours ago, CMJ said:

Immigrants 100 years ago were often mistrusted (they were often heads of unions and other things deemed unsavory).  Immigrants 100 years ago were demanding many radical (at the time) things.  As far as assimilation goes, there were large communities of Chinese, Poles, Irish, Italian, Czech and many other ethnicities who formed enclaves where they didn't have to learn much English.  There were dozens of German newspapers...written in GERMAN that had broad circulation.  One of the main reasons Prohibition ended up happening was because people were scared of all those damn German and Irish drunkards everywhere.

 

 

Things were not as different as one would believe.

Except the main difference:  U.S. citizen taxpayers were not subsidizing their kids' breakfasts and lunches year round or giving them subsidized rent and other goodies just for crossing the border.

 

36 minutes ago, HoustonEagle said:

Thing is I am a gun owner and a believer in our right to be gun owners.  With that said I am not blind to the facts and thus why I posted that list.  There needs to be a national discussion about where we draw the line with gun ownership.  There will always be crazies in this world.  There always has been there always will be.  Those crazies come in every shape, color and ideology. Radical factions of Islam are absolutely becoming an ever increasing threat to personal and public security.  But, if we allow that to give us tunnel vision we lose sight of a larger problem.  Mental health, economic stagnation, and the oversaturation of negative media, amongst other things, pushes more and more over the line. When they cross the line it is so incredibly easy for a person to obtain high capacity semi-auto weapons.  There is a lot to be debated on this issue and everyone needs to come to the table. 

Understood that you will never be able to weed out all of the crazies.  However, this guy - suspected of having terrorist ties - is different.  The FBI did interview him several times, but backed off.  That is different than the autistic kid in New Hampshire and the racist in South Carolina.

 

[FirefightnRick]

On June 24, 2016 at 10:05 AM, HoustonEagle said:

Thing is I am a gun owner and a believer in our right to be gun owners.  With that said I am not blind to the facts and thus why I posted that list.  There needs to be a national discussion about where we draw the line with gun ownership.  There will always be crazies in this world.  There always has been there always will be.  Those crazies come in every shape, color and ideology. Radical factions of Islam are absolutely becoming an ever increasing threat to personal and public security.  But, if we allow that to give us tunnel vision we lose sight of a larger problem.  Mental health, economic stagnation, and the oversaturation of negative media, amongst other things, pushes more and more over the line. When they cross the line it is so incredibly easy for a person to obtain high capacity semi-auto weapons.  There is a lot to be debated on this issue and everyone needs to come to the table. 

Take all of the deaths from your list that goes back what..20 years?.....and they still wouldn't add up to the number killed from...

 

...and the first bombing.

Let alone combining the deathsfrom knives, clubs, hammers, hands and medical malpractice every year.  

Hell, we're only in late June and there's already been over 1500 Texans killed on Texas roads this year..and who knows how many of those are directly caused by someone else's negligence or during a crime committed?

But you knew all of this.

 

Rick

Edited June 25, 2016 by FirefightnRick

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

Interesting example..... there were people in the admistaration then that had heard of foreigners taking flying lessons but not very interested in how to land or take off.... They did nothing and... 9-11 happened.. Which administration did this occur in.??? . 

[foutsrouts]

56 minutes ago, SCREAMING EAGLE-66 said:

Interesting example..... there were people in the admistaration then that had heard of foreigners taking flying lessons but not very interested in how to land or take off.... They did nothing and... 9-11 happened.. Which administration did this occur in.??? . 

The 911 terrorist flight training began in early 2000 during the Clinton administration of course. The same administration that was in charge during the first attempt to bring down the towers in '93, so they certainly had plenty of time to be vigilant in tracking and discovering such plots. 

[UNT90]

On June 24, 2016 at 10:05 AM, HoustonEagle said:

Thing is I am a gun owner and a believer in our right to be gun owners.  With that said I am not blind to the facts and thus why I posted that list.  There needs to be a national discussion about where we draw the line with gun ownership.  There will always be crazies in this world.  There always has been there always will be.  Those crazies come in every shape, color and ideology. Radical factions of Islam are absolutely becoming an ever increasing threat to personal and public security.  But, if we allow that to give us tunnel vision we lose sight of a larger problem.  Mental health, economic stagnation, and the oversaturation of negative media, amongst other things, pushes more and more over the line. When they cross the line it is so incredibly easy for a person to obtain high capacity semi-auto weapons.  There is a lot to be debated on this issue and everyone needs to come to the table. 

All of those shootings you listed cannot be lumped as one, as you and CBL seem to want to do. Each one had a different murderer with different motivations. 

Its the easy way out to blame a machine instead of doing the hard work of solving the problems behind the motivation. Take guns away and these people would still have killed people with bombs, cars, knives, bats, or any other number of mechanical devices that arent outlawed.

Should we outlaw everything that can be used as an instrument of death? 

16 hours ago, SCREAMING EAGLE-66 said:

Interesting example..... there were people in the admistaration then that had heard of foreigners taking flying lessons but not very interested in how to land or take off.... They did nothing and... 9-11 happened.. Which administration did this occur in.??? . 

Clinton's? 

But wait, you can't ever criticize a democrat, can you, Mr. I'm-a-moderate-but-really-a-far-left-liberal? 

15 hours ago, foutsrouts said:

The 911 terrorist flight training began in early 2000 during the Clinton administration of course. The same administration that was in charge during the first attempt to bring down the towers in '93, so they certainly had plenty of time to be vigilant in tracking and discovering such plots. 

He is a left wing political extremist of the highest order. 

Its really comical at this point.

Edited June 26, 2016 by UNT90

[MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF]

Seriously, guys?  9/11?

Look, the problem with most mass shootings/killings is that you have no idea: (1) when they are going to occur, or (2) who will attempt them.

If you have some inkling about (2), why would you not pass legislation that would disallow or greatly delay (2) from buying firearms?

The common theme here is terrorists.  What difference does it make whether you use a plane or firearm?  If you have some clue that they are up to no good, don't allow them to buy firearms.  It's not complicated.

[EagleMBA]

52 minutes ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

Seriously, guys?  9/11?

Look, the problem with most mass shootings/killings is that you have no idea: (1) when they are going to occur, or (2) who will attempt them.

If you have some inkling about (2), why would you not pass legislation that would disallow or greatly delay (2) from buying firearms?

The common theme here is terrorists.  What difference does it make whether you use a plane or firearm?  If you have some clue that they are up to no good, don't allow them to buy firearms.  It's not complicated.

You make too much sense. The problem, to me, is that the legislators won't write a straight-forward bill to be voted on. They are like a pack of dogs, each wanting to leave his mark on the hydrant. I hate to sound too cynical but at times I feel like they think it is all about them, not their constituents ("We the People"). When something comes to a vote, it has been packed with so many "cookies" that it tastes like caca to the majority.

Edited June 27, 2016 by EagleMBA

[HoustonEagle]

On ‎6‎/‎26‎/‎2016 at 8:18 AM, UNT90 said:

All of those shootings you listed cannot be lumped as one, as you and CBL seem to want to do. Each one had a different murderer with different motivations. 

Its the easy way out to blame a machine instead of doing the hard work of solving the problems behind the motivation. Take guns away and these people would still have killed people with bombs, cars, knives, bats, or any other number of mechanical devices that arent outlawed.

Should we outlaw everything that can be used as an instrument of death? 

Clinton's? 

But wait, you can't ever criticize a democrat, can you, Mr. I'm-a-moderate-but-really-a-far-left-liberal? 

He is a left wing political extremist of the highest order. 

Its really comical at this point.

The major problem with that statement is it ignores the real debate.  Where should the line be in regards to gun control? The majority of Americans do not want to abolish firearms but would like to see more restrictions on gun ownership.   The real debate comes down to access and total firepower. 
I ponder why it is that I had to take a two day course for my CHL in order to carry a concealed sidearm. Yet I can swing by the local sporting goods store and buy a semi-auto rifle with a 100 round drum magazine (not a common mag, but legal)  put it over my shoulder as I walk out the door and down the street.  Is the CHL an over-reach of government or should we possibly fold other weapons systems under a certification umbrella?  Also what is your position on where the line should be set as to what weapons we can and can not own?  Should there be no restrictions?  The military gets to play with some really cool stuff and I want that too.  Nowhere in the second amendment does it say I can not own a RPG or Stinger.  If you think that is lunacy then why are you so vehemently against the current debate?

 

As for myself I actually want to buy a .40 carbine, to go with my glock .40.  It's my end of the world arsenal that will stay in my gun safe with the exception of the occasional trip to the range.  (By the way if you have ever watched or read The Road you will never be caught without adequate ammo but I digress). If I have to wait a week or month to take ownership of that weapon no big deal.  If I had to be certified much like the CHL then again no big deal. The little boy in me wants 100 magazines but if you say I can only have a 10 or 20 then so be it,   Background checks and so on there are ideas out there that I am open to.  So to take such a hard stance on something that is only debating where the line should be set seems naïve and simple.

[UNT90]

8 minutes ago, HoustonEagle said:

The major problem with that statement is it ignores the real debate.  Where should the line be in regards to gun control? The majority of Americans do not want to abolish firearms but would like to see more restrictions on gun ownership.   The real debate comes down to access and total firepower. 
I ponder why it is that I had to take a two day course for my CHL in order to carry a concealed sidearm. Yet I can swing by the local sporting goods store and buy a semi-auto rifle with a 100 round drum magazine (not a common mag, but legal)  put it over my shoulder as I walk out the door and down the street.  Is the CHL an over-reach of government or should we possibly fold other weapons systems under a certification umbrella?  Also what is your position on where the line should be set as to what weapons we can and can not own?  Should there be no restrictions?  The military gets to play with some really cool stuff and I want that too.  Nowhere in the second amendment does it say I can not own a RPG or Stinger.  If you think that is lunacy then why are you so vehemently against the current debate?

 

As for myself I actually want to buy a .40 carbine, to go with my glock .40.  It's my end of the world arsenal that will stay in my gun safe with the exception of the occasional trip to the range.  (By the way if you have ever watched or read The Road you will never be caught without adequate ammo but I digress). If I have to wait a week or month to take ownership of that weapon no big deal.  If I had to be certified much like the CHL then again no big deal. The little boy in me wants 100 magazines but if you say I can only have a 10 or 20 then so be it,   Background checks and so on there are ideas out there that I am open to.  So to take such a hard stance on something that is only debating where the line should be set seems naïve and simple.

Having this debate at all is lunacy. This isn't a "gun control debate," it's a radical Islamist terrorist debate. That guy will find a weapon, I promise you. 

As far as you being ok with the government knowing where every gun is located, well, the old Red Dawn kinda made the point, although the far greater danger is from your own government:

And you make an excellent point. Gun ownership rights have already been severely trampled, yet here are the socialist, demanding even more gun concessions from the American public. All because of an act of terrorism committed by a Radical Islamist terrorist.

Ya, nothing at all to worry about there.   

[HoustonEagle]

6 hours ago, UNT90 said:

Having this debate at all is lunacy. This isn't a "gun control debate," it's a radical Islamist terrorist debate. That guy will find a weapon, I promise you. 

As far as you being ok with the government knowing where every gun is located, well, the old Red Dawn kinda made the point, although the far greater danger is from your own government:

And you make an excellent point. Gun ownership rights have already been severely trampled, yet here are the socialist, demanding even more gun concessions from the American public. All because of an act of terrorism committed by a Radical Islamist terrorist.

Ya, nothing at all to worry about there.   

The gun control debate comes up every time there is a mass shooting be it Islamic, teenage angst, mental breakdown, employee rage and your personal favorite government hate.  The list is long as to reasons but we are always left with the question "would we be better off if high capacity semi auto weapons were more difficult to obtain." It's a fair question.  It is a fair debate. I do hate that democracy gives you the red ass but it is the cornerstone this country was built upon.  So deal with it or gtfo.  

[MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF]

23 hours ago, EagleMBA said:

You make too much sense. The problem, to me, is that the legislators won't write a straight-forward bill to be voted on. They are like a pack of dogs, each wanting to leave his mark on the hydrant. I hate to sound too cynical but at times I feel like they think it is all about them, not their constituents ("We the People"). When something comes to a vote, it has been packed with so many "cookies" that it tastes like caca to the majority.

I think both bills were straightforward.  They were almost identical except for the waiting period - Cornyn wanted three days if someone had been on a terror list; Feinstein's bill made the waiting period indefinite if someone had been on a terror watch list within five years.

Either bill would have been fine.  But, because Republicans and Democrats are more interested in PR wins than fighting terrorism, we are where we are.

Worse, it gave the pretenders a chance to sit-in at the House of Reps.  So, the PR game was allowed to bleed down.  And, because it's unresolved, they'll do it again after the July 4th break. 

Again, stupid.  Both Republicans and Democrats. 

[Got5onIt]

On 6/23/2016 at 0:12 PM, MeanGreenMailbox said:

Exactly!

And, here is the other piece of the puzzle that is different, that socialists tend to ignore (wilfully?):  for immigrants 100 years ago and before, there was no welfare system, which began during the Great Depression.

Immigrants - and, their kids - now get all sorts of benefits courtesy of the U.S. taxpayer.  Back then, they didn't get jack squat.  Immigrants then knew that coming to America, they'd have to work hard.

But, then, that was the lure:  in America, you could work hard and get ahead.  Not so in the countries they left. 

Immigrants now, to get the basics of living, don't have to work.  They merely need a kid - who will get free education, breakfast and lunch, year round, lowered/subsiduzed rents for you, etc.

To compare immigration pre-Great Depression/Welfare Era, to post-Great Depression/Welfare Era is to compare apples to oranges.  It's not the same, or even close to the same.  It's disingenuous at its core to say that immigrants 100 years ago were in the same state as those today.  It's simply a lie. 

Immigrants used to come for opportunity to be successful due to their own hard work.  Immigrants now flood the border, then demands rights and handouts.  It's sickening to watch.

 

 

Education and an improved socioeconomic status will nurture these children into being productive, taxpaying members of society. At least that's the theory behind it. Of course, many of these kids fall through the cracks, for whatever reason. However, there are numerous amounts that do not. Have you ever dealt with these immigrant kids and their parents and have you even come close to experiencing some of the hardships they go through? And having a hard time deciding on which college to attend on Daddy's dime doesn't count as a hardship. I've heard this type of talk on many occasions and it's always from some over privileged white person. You're right, it is apples to oranges, where immigration during your favorite era involved mostly Europeans and today's immigrants are mostly hispanic. So where does your disgust really lie? 

Edited July 4, 2016 by Got5onIt

[UNT90]

On June 27, 2016 at 8:02 PM, HoustonEagle said:

The gun control debate comes up every time there is a mass shooting be it Islamic, teenage angst, mental breakdown, employee rage and your personal favorite government hate.  The list is long as to reasons but we are always left with the question "would we be better off if high capacity semi auto weapons were more difficult to obtain." It's a fair question.  It is a fair debate. I do hate that democracy gives you the red ass but it is the cornerstone this country was built upon.  So deal with it or gtfo.  

Lol "Deal with it or GTFO." 

And I'm the one with a problem with democracy?

You are a great example of the problem in this country. People can't take a thoughtful challenge to their position. They get their itty bitty feelings hurt and respond just the way you did.

You ask for a reason, I give you one. It challenges your line of thought so you tell me to get the F out. See a problem with your own "democratic" line of thought there? 

The second amendment was put in place to allow citizens the right to protect themselves from the largest organized mass murders in history - government. I don't know how to be any clearer. 

So, yes, high capacity magazines are needed. Guns are already restricted far more than they should be. 

Also, if you have never seen a real live critical incident/gunfight, the adrenaline dump makes the best shooters less than average. It's important for the good guys to have high capacity magazines. Because the bad guys, who won't obey your newly created law, will absolutely have them, and therefore have an advantage in the Houston less-than-utopia world. 

Look, I get it that it makes you look compassionate and gives you warm fuzzy feel goods to think that outlawing a machine will change human behavior. Problem is it solves absolutely nothing and actually makes the problem worse. 

Looking forward to a reasoned, thought out response, not some cry baby "how dare you challenge my opinion, now GTFO" bulsh...

Edited July 4, 2016 by UNT90

[EagleMBA]

On this Independence Day, here is a little read for ya'll.

http://personalliberty.com/declare-independence-political-correctness/

 

[HoustonEagle]

On June 27, 2016 at 1:18 PM, UNT90 said:

Having this debate at all is lunacy. This isn't a "gun control debate," it's a radical Islamist terrorist debate. That guy will find a weapon, I promise you. 

As far as you being ok with the government knowing where every gun is located, well, the old Red Dawn kinda made the point, although the far greater danger is from your own government:

And you make an excellent point. Gun ownership rights have already been severely trampled, yet here are the socialist, demanding even more gun concessions from the American public. All because of an act of terrorism committed by a Radical Islamist terrorist.

Ya, nothing at all to worry about there.   

Sounds pretty undemocratic to me.  So again I would like to say if you can't handle how democracy works.  If you can't handle the other side without your standard name calling then just leave.  Find a country that meets your UNT90 utopian standards. 

Edited July 4, 2016 by HoustonEagle

[UNT90]

6 minutes ago, HoustonEagle said:

Sounds pretty undemocratic to me.  So again I would like to say if you can't handle how democracy works.  If you can't handle the other side without your standard "libtard" name calling then just leave.  Find a country that meets your UNT90 utopian standards. 

And there it is. If you don't like the America I want, GTFO. Always the argument of those pushing a liberal cause. Also, always liberals who are promising to move to Canada if __________ is elected(of course then never, ever following through). 

Yes, l feel having this debate is lunacy. I didn't tell you to leave America for making it. 

You just told me to leave America because I don't agree with you.

And you did it on Independence Day. 

So... Congrats? 

[HoustonEagle]

12 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

And there it is. If you don't like the America I want, GTFO. Always the argument of those pushing a liberal cause. Also, always liberals who are promising to move to Canada if __________ is elected(of course then never, ever following through). 

Yes, l feel having this debate is lunacy. I didn't tell you to leave America for making it. 

You just told me to leave America because I don't agree with you.

And you did it on Independence Day. 

So... Congrats? 

My comment was in regards to your desire to control debate. That is very much undemocratic. My hunch is that you understand this but then possibly I overestimate you.  Regardless this is the last time I will address you on the matter.  As Twain once said. "Never argue with a fool, onlookers might not be able to tell the difference"  

 

[UNT90]

14 minutes ago, HoustonEagle said:

My comment was in regards to your desire to control debate. That is very much undemocratic. My hunch is that you understand this but then possibly I overestimate you.  Regardless this is the last time I will address you on the matter.  As Twain once said. "Never argue with a fool, onlookers might not be able to tell the difference"  

So trying to control a debate, also known as winning an argument, is worth me, a tax paying contributor to American society for 35 years, being kicked out of Houston's America? Good to know.

You know what controls debates? Facts.

One usually feels the other party is controlling the debate when one doesn't have the facts on their side. 

Oh, and that's an original quote.

 

Edited July 4, 2016 by UNT90

[Bobbie Jo]

www.jill2016.com   Jill Stein is an alternative to Hillary. Her stance on issues is very similar to Bernie, and she is a physician making a difference, rather than a politician. Look at her page and decide for yourself. At least do the research. We don't have to blindly go for either Democrat or Republican. There are other options.

[EagleMBA]

9 hours ago, Bobbie Jo said:

www.jill2016.com   Jill Stein is an alternative to Hillary. Her stance on issues is very similar to Bernie, and she is a physician making a difference, rather than a politician. Look at her page and decide for yourself. At least do the research. We don't have to blindly go for either Democrat or Republican. There are other options.

Green. Madison, WI. That's all I need to know. No, thank you.