C-USA budgets a concern?

Coach Bill Lewis · June 10, 2016

AD Chris Massaro said there will be cuts in their athletic budget at Middle Tennessee University this fall. Do you guys have concern this impacts conference members and our collective future in the Grand Scheme of Intercollegiate Athletics?

Ben Gooding · June 10, 2016

1 hour ago, Coach Bill Lewis said:

AD Chris Massaro said there will be cuts in their athletic budget at Middle Tennessee University this fall. Do you guys have concern this impacts conference members and our collective future in the Grand Scheme of Intercollegiate Athletics?

No. This does not concern me as a North Texas alum & fan. This is MUTS downsizing, not us. As far as enrollment goes, we are almost twice their size. I have the utmost confidence that this next AD will do a way, way, way better job than the former. We are getting ready to explode, imo.

GTWT · June 10, 2016

12 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

No. This does not concern me as a North Texas alum & fan. This is MUTS downsizing, not us. As far as enrollment goes, we are almost twice their size. I have the utmost confidence that this next AD will do a way, way, way better job than the former. We are getting ready to explode, imo.

It does say something about the health of our conference mates. Please, no more Sun Belt schools graduating into cUSA.

ntsumck · June 10, 2016

Lost TV revenue is hurting all C-USA schools. I believe there will either be budget cuts in our AD or we will continue to play at least 1 maybe 2 body bag games per year to make up for the lost TV revenue.

TreeFiddy · June 10, 2016

This is where we have to take advantage of our size and annual revenues.

Mid we could somehow push our budget into the $40M+ range where we are on par with MWC and AAC schools we will really start putting distance between ourselves and the rest of the conference.

untjim1995 · June 10, 2016

It is completely representative of the reality that the SBC, CUSA, and MAC face...we don't have enough of a following to get solid network deals or strong enough attendance to make up for it.

I personally don't see how the P5s will stick with the G5s much longer. The NCAA is their power tool and they have all of the legislative and media control. I do believe that schools in the higher echelon of the G5 will get included, in some form or fashion, within the next move upward of the P5s, but the rest of us don't have much of a chance. The budget differences between the AAC and CUSA is vast and the AAC trails the P5s by tens of millions of every year in network and ticket revenues. The difference between Texas Tech and Houston is very wide, budget-wise. But the difference between us and Tech is Grand Canyon wide. There just isn't any way that economics will work out for the G5s to have some form of quasi-membership with the P5s like they have now. They play games against each other that people want to see week-in and week-out in conference play for two months of a season, both on TV and in person. The rest of us don't get that luxury and never will.

Ben Gooding · June 10, 2016

1 hour ago, untjim1995 said:

It is completely representative of the reality that the SBC, CUSA, and MAC face...we don't have enough of a following to get solid network deals or strong enough attendance to make up for it.

I personally don't see how the P5s will stick with the G5s much longer. The NCAA is their power tool and they have all of the legislative and media control. I do believe that schools in the higher echelon of the G5 will get included, in some form or fashion, within the next move upward of the P5s, but the rest of us don't have much of a chance. The budget differences between the AAC and CUSA is vast and the AAC trails the P5s by tens of millions of every year in network and ticket revenues. The difference between Texas Tech and Houston is very wide, budget-wise. But the difference between us and Tech is Grand Canyon wide. There just isn't any way that economics will work out for the G5s to have some form of quasi-membership with the P5s like they have now. They play games against each other that people want to see week-in and week-out in conference play for two months of a season, both on TV and in person. The rest of us don't get that luxury and never will.

The more of your posts I read the more I think you and 90 are the same person. Hooked on same subject lines with just bullshit flowing out of your mouths. Though you may or may not be right (much like 90), "never will" is about as far from the truth as it gets. There are about 30 P5's in the same economic boat as us given their program state and conference affiliation. They just have lipstick smeared all over their faces. This is a drum you need to stop beating.

Aquila_Viridis · June 10, 2016

New AD will succeed only if higher ups REALLY want him to succeed. What makes you think there has been a change of heart?

adman · June 11, 2016

4 hours ago, Aquila_Viridis said:

New AD will succeed only if higher ups REALLY want him to succeed. What makes you think there has been a change of heart?

Firing Rick Villareal doesn't seem like a change of heart to you?

southsideguy · June 11, 2016

I thought LSU would not have a team next year because of the states budget? lol

Aquila_Viridis · June 12, 2016

On June 10, 2016 at 10:15 PM, adman said:

Firing Rick Villareal doesn't seem like a change of heart to you?

It will only matter who is in that job if his superiors seriously care, as a key institutional goal, whether he succeeds. Changing AD was sort of like the stadium in that it was something that should have happened a long time ago. We've had a new stadium for years but they haven't seemed to care whether there's anyone in it. At this point I view the AD change exactly the same. So, no; it provides a possibility at least, but a lot more needs to be done than making the change at AD.

untjim1995 · June 12, 2016

On June 10, 2016 at 4:54 PM, Ben Gooding said:

The more of your posts I read the more I think you and 90 are the same person. Hooked on same subject lines with just bullshit flowing out of your mouths. Though you may or may not be right (much like 90), "never will" is about as far from the truth as it gets. There are about 30 P5's in the same economic boat as us given their program state and conference affiliation. They just have lipstick smeared all over their faces. This is a drum you need to stop beating.

There may never be a dumber thing you'll ever post in your life than saying 30 P5 schools are "in the same economic boat" as us. You show me one F'ing P5 with an athletic budget like ours, a conference affiliation like ours, or is clearly near the bottom in recruiting against their in-state peers. Go ahead...Ill wait...ill even help.

Kansas?? Nope, gigantic budget because basketball pays the bills there.

Texas Tech?? Nope, budget dwarfs ours and they get annual visits every year from UT and OU in football.

Washington State?? Again, budget dwarfs ours, they get Washington and Oregon every year there to boost attendance and media coverage.

30 teams...hell, you can't find one.

Ben Gooding · June 12, 2016

18 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

There may never be a dumber thing you'll ever post in your life than saying 30 P5 schools are "in the same economic boat" as us. You show me one F'ing P5 with an athletic budget like ours, a conference affiliation like ours, or is clearly near the bottom in recruiting against their in-state peers. Go ahead...Ill wait...ill even help.

Kansas?? Nope, gigantic budget because basketball pays the bills there.

Texas Tech?? Nope, budget dwarfs ours and they get annual visits every year from UT and OU in football.

Washington State?? Again, budget dwarfs ours, they get Washington and Oregon every year there to boost attendance and media coverage.

30 teams...hell, you can't find one.

Damn man....READ and then comprehend. I'll make things bold for you...

There are about 30 P5's in the same economic boat as us given their program state and conference affiliation.

Aquila_Viridis · June 12, 2016

58 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

Damn man....READ and then comprehend. I'll make things bold for you...

There are about 30 P5's in the same economic boat as us given their program state and conference affiliation.

I for one will say I had no idea what you meant about him beating a drum like 90. I know what drum 90 was beating. Likewise, i note the qualification in the statement above but nonetheless I do not understand what you mean by that, and accordingly would have to disagree with the statement at this point.

Rudy · June 12, 2016

On 06/10/2016 at 6:05 PM, Aquila_Viridis said:

New AD will succeed only if higher ups REALLY want him to succeed. What makes you think there has been a change of heart?

Well hopefully with the departure of lee jackson, the most detrimental asshole associated with the university, there has been a change of heart.

untjim1995 · June 12, 2016

4 hours ago, Ben Gooding said:

Damn man....READ and then comprehend. I'll make things bold for you...

There are about 30 P5's in the same economic boat as us given their program state and conference affiliation.

So name just one...go ahead. We will wait...

Aquila_Viridis · June 12, 2016

13 hours ago, Rudy said:

Well hopefully with the departure of lee jackson, the most detrimental asshole associated with the university, there has been a change of heart.

That is not lost on me and it is one of the reasons I have any hope left.

Ben Gooding · June 12, 2016

12 hours ago, untjim1995 said:

So name just one...go ahead. We will wait...

Half of every P5 conference. That same half may dwarf our budget and even our expectations, but the other half of their conference "peers" dwarfs their budgets and their expectations. Half. My final answer us half. And if they can't hang around to compete for TV revenue/game time slots (particularly in a dying TV market) then they will be deemed a liability and eventually dealt with accordingly. Vandy, BC, Wake, NCState, Iowa St, Wash St, Colorado, etc. etc. etc. If you think these blue blood money hungry universities are going to allow them to stick around forever just to collect then you'll be surprised to see how college athletics (particularly football) shapes up over the next 10-15 years.

Arkstfan · June 13, 2016

On ‎6‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 10:13 AM, GTWT said:

It does say something about the health of our conference mates. Please, no more Sun Belt schools graduating into cUSA.

Seriously?

Graduate?

Into what? A group of schools that were mediocre in the Sun Belt "got promoted" shelled out $2 million to land in a conference that will almost certainly will make fewer dollars per school in 2016-17 than the Sun Belt.

When AState and ULL made bowl games, you didn't see us lose season ticket holders. AState and ULL are increasing budgets, MTSU, WKU, ODU are all cutting budgets.

Twerking like a banty rooster isn't a good look.

I was in Biloxi a few years ago, many of the grand old homes I remembered as a kid are nothing but overgrown lots with some steps that lead to nowhere. I asked a local host from their convention and visitors bureau about it and she said many of the people had inherited those homes but couldn't afford flood insurance but they held on rather than sell and admit the old money was gone money. Katrina took those houses into the gulf and they can't afford a construction loan much less the flood insurance that would be required to have the construction loan.

If USM fans want to complain about Sun Belt move-overs so be it, but you guys doing it is like having a big plug of redman and spitting face into the wind out the window of your beat up old truck.

Edited June 13, 2016 by Arkstfan

Arkstfan · June 13, 2016

On ‎6‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 11:10 PM, untjim1995 said:

There may never be a dumber thing you'll ever post in your life than saying 30 P5 schools are "in the same economic boat" as us. You show me one F'ing P5 with an athletic budget like ours, a conference affiliation like ours, or is clearly near the bottom in recruiting against their in-state peers. Go ahead...Ill wait...ill even help.

Kansas?? Nope, gigantic budget because basketball pays the bills there.

Texas Tech?? Nope, budget dwarfs ours and they get annual visits every year from UT and OU in football.

Washington State?? Again, budget dwarfs ours, they get Washington and Oregon every year there to boost attendance and media coverage.

30 teams...hell, you can't find one.

Rutgers is the most heavily subsidized P5 and their tickets plus contributions are $24 million, Arizona State is the next most subsidized and they make $25 million in tickets and contributions. UNT is listed at $4 million in tickets and contributions, AState at $6.5 million. That's a far piece from P5 dollars. UConn is at $17.5 million and I believe that leads the G5.

Ben Gooding · June 13, 2016

13 minutes ago, Arkstfan said:

Seriously?

Graduate?

Into what? A group of schools that were mediocre in the Sun Belt "got promoted" shelled out $2 million to land in a conference that will almost certainly will make fewer dollars per school in 2016-17 than the Sun Belt.

When AState and ULL made bowl games, you didn't see us lose season ticket holders. AState and ULL are increasing budgets, MTSU, WKU, ODU are all cutting budgets.

Twerking like a banty rooster isn't a good look.

I was in Biloxi a few years ago, many of the grand old homes I remembered as a kid are nothing but overgrown lots with some steps that lead to nowhere. I asked a local host from their convention and visitors bureau about it and she said many of the people had inherited those homes but couldn't afford flood insurance but they held on rather than sell and admit the old money was gone money. Katrina took those houses into the gulf and they can't afford a construction loan much less the flood insurance that would be required to have the construction loan.

If USM fans want to complain about Sun Belt move-overs so be it, but you guys doing it is like having a big plug of redman and spitting face into the wind out the window of your beat up old truck.

Butthurt bro?

Apparently the Astate board isn't worth a shit. But, uh, you can always go back to it.

wardly · June 13, 2016

The Power 5 conferences and Gang of 5 conferences will at some point separate. Basically college football will evolve into three tiers, similar to high school divisions, with TCU at a tier 1 level, UNT tier 2, and SFA tier 3.. It appears to me that the best course of action for CUSA and Sun Belt is to reconfigure into two regional conferences. The T.V.money boat has saild for us, and if there is less money coming in then you need less going out. One way to accomplish this is a significant reduction in travel expenses and the creation of regional rivalries. Basically, CUSA as it stands today[ exception being So. Miss and perhaps one more] is a combination of Sun Belt, WAC, and newbies, so we would maintain status quo in terms of level of competition, a level with one exception we have yet to reach since "moving up".As a side note ,the last time we beat Arkansas State in football was in 2004, losing to them every year afterwards until we left the Belt for green for greener pastures.

untjim1995 · June 13, 2016

1 hour ago, Arkstfan said:

Rutgers is the most heavily subsidized P5 and their tickets plus contributions are $24 million, Arizona State is the next most subsidized and they make $25 million in tickets and contributions. UNT is listed at $4 million in tickets and contributions, AState at $6.5 million. That's a far piece from P5 dollars. UConn is at $17.5 million and I believe that leads the G5.

Good stuff, as always, Arkstfan...you guys are over 50% better at raising revenue in Jonesboro, Arkansas than we are in Denton, even with a substantially smaller student body and alumni base. Says a lot about your leadership and their approach to athletics--and it says even more about the realities of how we have handled athletics in the past here. UConn at $17.5 million is not surprising--they are a national name and will always have a place in the upper echelon of college sports when the future schism occurs.

Facts are hard for today's entitled youth. They think we should all be P5 equals just because...

It is beyond embarrassing to share a degree from the same school with anyone that thinks the bottom half of all P5s are equal with us, even though a simple bit of research shows that Rutgers brings in more than 6x what we bring in--and represents the worst revenue collector of the P5s. UConn has won several titles in both mens and womens basketball. And they are still $6.5 million behind the worst P5 program. But somehow, we have people who believe we, at UNT, with our $4 million in revenue, are on equal footing with both of them right now. Never mind that we probably would be doing good to only be behind 30 other G5 schools in terms of revenue and media coverage.

Keep fighting the good fight, Arkstfan. You're a great asset to this board. And I'd even tell that to your face...

UNTLifer · June 13, 2016

2 hours ago, Ben Gooding said:

Butthurt bro?

Apparently the Astate board isn't worth a shit. But, uh, you can always go back to it.

Arkstfan is always welcome here. He has great insight and obviously connections that provide great information on topics of this nature. Try not to be a d-bag.

untjim1995 · June 13, 2016

2 hours ago, Ben Gooding said:

Butthurt bro?

Apparently the Astate board isn't worth a shit. But, uh, you can always go back to it.

12 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Arkstfan is always welcome here. He has great insight and obviously connections that provide great information on topics of this nature. Try not to be a d-bag.

Too late, Lifer...