ESPN Loses Another 1.5 Million Subscribers

[Harry]

11 minutes ago, Cerebus said:

It's my thread.  The "CFB as we know it is changing because the funding model is dead" is a drumbeat I have been beating for a long time.  

CFB changed greatly when NCAA/OU lawsuit changed the ownership of TV rights from the NCAA to the schools, it changed greatly as more and more people had to pay for tv they didn't watch, and its going to change greatly as more and more people leave cable services.  

Very valid thread even now more than ever.

[southsideguy]

I heard the Disney president say they are going to be the first to let the consumer pick the channels they want to buy or see. I have Spectrum and must have 10 religious stations, hispanic stations (Unfortunately i dont speak the language) and home shopping shows.

I forget i have hbo avaialbe but always seems to be the same shows playing.

I maybe watch about 20 channels out of my silver package of 100 stations. If i can pick my stations I will be gone from Spectrum.

[peanuts104]

On 5/31/2016 at 5:39 PM, Wag Tag said:

Tech is wiping out another industry. 

Edit: I just replied to a 2 year old post.  Whoops.

 

 

You mean tech is streamlining another industry that's been bloated and controlled by cable companies for too long. Instead of paying north of $300 a month for channels they don't ever watch, my parents are happily paying less than $80 for internet and streaming services for stuff they actually watch.  The cable industry got comfy and greedy.  It's not suprising that this happened.

Edited November 8, 2018 by peanuts104

[DeepGreen]

Same with Direct TV.  I pay for what seems like 5,000 channels, and only watch maybe 15.  I mean, do I really need  20 channels of the same QVC crap?

[Moobs]

1 hour ago, Cerebus said:

Another thing to think about, ESPN Events owns almost all of the bowls with G5 tie ins.  What happens to those bowl games when ESPN has to restructure rights contracts?  

Maybe they turn them into a giant playoff system with 16 or 32 teams?

[Cerebus]

2 minutes ago, Moobs said:

Maybe they turn them into a giant playoff system with 16 or 32 teams?

They don't own the big bowls, they own bowls like New Mexico, Dallas (Servepro), las vegas, Camellia, Frisco, Gasparilla,  Idaho Potato, Academy, Armed Forces, etc.  

They only make money because they fill time slots under the current model.  If the model changes it might not make economic sense for them to hold these bowl games just to fill air time. 

 

[Moobs]

2 minutes ago, Cerebus said:

They don't own the big bowls, they own bowls like New Mexico, Dallas (Servepro), las vegas, Camellia, Frisco, Gasparilla,  Idaho Potato, Academy, Armed Forces, etc.  

They only make money because they fill time slots under the current model.  If the model changes it might not make economic sense for them to hold these bowl games just to fill air time. 

 

I don't think people care what name is on the bowl.  If they need to attract viewers, turning them all into a playoff for the G5 may be what it takes.  I don't think I'd care about the teams playing, but I'd probably watch a playoff.

[Cerebus]

30 minutes ago, Moobs said:

  If they need to attract viewers, turning them all into a playoff for the G5 may be what it takes.  I don't think I'd care about the teams playing, but I'd probably watch a playoff.

I'm not sure it would be wise for the G5 to do this, more or less agree to give up any chance to a real championship.  I also don't know if the P5 would like it, they need the farce of FBS equality in order to help their claim to amateur status.  

I think P5 loves the way it is setup now.  No need to split the G5 off.  They get everything they want and control everything, while not having to pay for workman's comps claims, or allow any sort of unionization.  

[meanrob]

3 hours ago, Cerebus said:

It's my thread.  The "CFB as we know it is changing because the funding model is dead" is a drumbeat I have been beating for a long time.  

CFB changed greatly when NCAA/OU lawsuit changed the ownership of TV rights from the NCAA to the schools, it changed greatly as more and more people had to pay for tv they didn't watch, and its going to change greatly as more and more people leave cable services.  

While cord cutting is happening, live rights fees are not going down and ratings for football are still good. They can cut costs in other areas. Also, if tv contracts are going down, why would any conference want to absorb more teams and cut that pie even more? 

When the next P5 TV contract is negotiated and those numbers go way down, then I'll believe the doomsday predictions. 

[Got5onIt]

Back to the chord cutting....I’ve noticed internet service fees are bumped up higher if you don’t do a TV package. Premiums are placed on the higher bandwidth as well. So how much are you really saving?  How is everyone getting access to specific TV channels once you go straight to streaming?

[ipd054]

29 minutes ago, Got5onIt said:

So how much are you really saving?  How is everyone getting access to specific TV channels once you go straight to streaming?

I am currently saving $960 a year (3 season tickets in Scholarship Sideline).  I am getting access through YouTube TV (owned by google)

I went to YouTube TV for $40 per month vs the DirecTV at $120 a month.  I save $80 per month and I can watch TV on any device anywhere including my tailgate.  I have unlimited DVR and have not missed one second of DirecTV.  I am still paying through YouTube TV for Live local channels, ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU, ESPNEWS, SEC Network, CBS Sports, NBC Sports, Big10 Network, Fox Sports, FS1, FS2, Golf Channel, MLB Network, NBA TV, NBCSN, NESN, Olympic Channel, Tennis Channel, TNT, and Yes.   By dropping the other 190 channels that I never watched I save $960 a year, but I am still supporting the sports networks I watch.

I have the same internet package since I did not have TV through Comcast.  Here in Houston when the 5G home (5th generation wireless) comes to my neck of town I will fire comcast as fast as possible and save another $70 per month...  $840 per year.

Next year, when my daughter will be a freshman on campus, I will be able to afford 3 tickets (with MGSF donation included), a Blue Lot Parking pass, and still have $106 per game for tailgating supplies by cutting the cord and finally being able to fire Comcast...

 

[Wag Tag]

42 minutes ago, ipd054 said:

I am currently saving $960 a year (3 season tickets in Scholarship Sideline).  I am getting access through YouTube TV (owned by google)

I went to YouTube TV for $40 per month vs the DirecTV at $120 a month.  I save $80 per month and I can watch TV on any device anywhere including my tailgate.  I have unlimited DVR and have not missed one second of DirecTV.  I am still paying through YouTube TV for Live local channels, ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU, ESPNEWS, SEC Network, CBS Sports, NBC Sports, Big10 Network, Fox Sports, FS1, FS2, Golf Channel, MLB Network, NBA TV, NBCSN, NESN, Olympic Channel, Tennis Channel, TNT, and Yes.   By dropping the other 190 channels that I never watched I save $960 a year, but I am still supporting the sports networks I watch.

I have the same internet package since I did not have TV through Comcast.  Here in Houston when the 5G home (5th generation wireless) comes to my neck of town I will fire comcast as fast as possible and save another $70 per month...  $840 per year.

Next year, when my daughter will be a freshman on campus, I will be able to afford 3 tickets (with MGSF donation included), a Blue Lot Parking pass, and still have $106 per game for tailgating supplies by cutting the cord and finally being able to fire Comcast...

 

You need to start your own blog! Genuis!

[meangreenlax]

On 5/31/2016 at 4:07 PM, Cerebus said:

ESPN has lost 10 million subscribers since 2013.

Late to the party here, but after ESPN and cable networks have been screwing customers over for decades, I have little sympathy for them. 

Cable companies are becoming conglomerates, merging and snatching up every single entertainment/tv/cable/whatever company they can get their hands on. Competition is going down, regardless of how you choose to get your programs to your screens. The issue is that anti-trust laws we're written with the late 19th/early 20th century in mind. Consumers are going to continue to get screwed.

Edited November 8, 2018 by meangreenlax

[Christopher Walker]

9 hours ago, Got5onIt said:

Premiums are placed on the higher bandwidth as well.

Thank you corrupt FCC for killing Net Neutrality. Your plan worked to perfection.

Edited November 9, 2018 by Christopher Walker

[UNT 90 Grad]

16 hours ago, ipd054 said:

I am currently saving $960 a year (3 season tickets in Scholarship Sideline).  I am getting access through YouTube TV (owned by google)

I went to YouTube TV for $40 per month vs the DirecTV at $120 a month.  I save $80 per month and I can watch TV on any device anywhere including my tailgate.  I have unlimited DVR and have not missed one second of DirecTV.  I am still paying through YouTube TV for Live local channels, ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU, ESPNEWS, SEC Network, CBS Sports, NBC Sports, Big10 Network, Fox Sports, FS1, FS2, Golf Channel, MLB Network, NBA TV, NBCSN, NESN, Olympic Channel, Tennis Channel, TNT, and Yes.   By dropping the other 190 channels that I never watched I save $960 a year, but I am still supporting the sports networks I watch.

I have the same internet package since I did not have TV through Comcast.  Here in Houston when the 5G home (5th generation wireless) comes to my neck of town I will fire comcast as fast as possible and save another $70 per month...  $840 per year.

Next year, when my daughter will be a freshman on campus, I will be able to afford 3 tickets (with MGSF donation included), a Blue Lot Parking pass, and still have $106 per game for tailgating supplies by cutting the cord and finally being able to fire Comcast...

 

You’ve peaked my interest.  Looks like you have access to ESPN3 if you have YouTube TV, correct?  (Unlike Spectrum now).  However, it looks like there is no opt for beIN Sports.   Ugh.  If that situation doesn’t get hammered out soon, I hope CUSA moves away from that network. 

[ipd054]

52 minutes ago, UNT 90 Grad said:

You’ve peaked my interest.  Looks like you have access to ESPN3 if you have YouTube TV, correct?  (Unlike Spectrum now).  However, it looks like there is no opt for beIN Sports.   Ugh.  If that situation doesn’t get hammered out soon, I hope CUSA moves away from that network. 

Correct no BeIN.  Luckily, I have a family member with dish so I can watch on-line...

[Cerebus]

22 hours ago, meanrob said:

While cord cutting is happening, live rights fees are not going down and ratings for football are still good.

Hard disagree.

CUSA rights went from about a $1.4M/YR each to about $200K each.  ESPN renegotiated their deal with the SBC while it had two years left on it because they told the SBC the deal HAD to be renegotiated.   The money didn't change significantly (~100k/YR) but the SBC had to agree to more weekday games, and ESPN has the ability to change the day of games during the season.

ESPN and CBS Sports went to the MWC and told them the deal had to with three years left on the deal.  Those negations are going bad enough the MWC commissioner has public stated they are thinking of moving to some other streaming based service instead of re-upping with ESPN at the end of the deal.  MWC makes $1.8M/YR but rumors are that ESPN wanted to slash that by more than half, have more in season game moving like the SBC agreed to, and wanted to move more kicks to the 8/9  central slots.   MWC AD's don't want to lose that money, but they also don't want to alienate fans.  

The LHN is a terrible deal for ESPN.  Five years into their deal (2015) ESPN had lost $48M and had notified UT they expected to back out of the deal, a last minute decision by DIRECTV to sign on saved it.  Even now, it may or may not be profitable.  That is after they have count dozens of personalities and shows like Longhorn Extra and Texas All Access and really paired down on live coverage of Olympic sports.   ESPN has already approached UT about renegotiating.  UT has told them to shove it, which is why ESPN almost defaulted on the deal.  So not only was that show those media rights aren't as valuable as people thought, it shows to me that UT isn't really that concerned about the long term health of the LHN.  They are going to wring out every piece of silver they can, then not let it keep them from moving to a more profitable conference.  

NFL football isn't CFB.  But, ESPN flat out wasn't able to bid on Monday night football.  That had an effect on the price of it.  Of course MNF is more valuable to ESPN than CFB.  But it goes to show what dire straights they are in if they can't even make a bid.  

 

22 hours ago, meanrob said:

Also, if tv contracts are going down, why would any conference want to absorb more teams and cut that pie even more? 

Who said the conferences have to have more members?  Some of those who are P5 now won't be P4.    And sure, the CFP is capped at 10 schools per conference now, but there is no reason the P4 can't change that to whatever they want, they control the FBS rules process.  

[Legend500]

On 11/8/2018 at 12:20 PM, meanrob said:

 Also, if tv contracts are going down, why would any conference want to absorb more teams and cut that pie even more? 

Less absorbing, more shuffling. Right now, some G5s can justify what they're doing because of the paycheck. But what happens when the paychecks for the Mountain and the American go down? The easiest way to balance the loss is to get more butts in seats, and lower travel costs. Both of those augur towards regionalization of the conferences. Mountain West is already in good shape, but needs to do something about Hawaii and equalizing Boise's share. But the American, CUSA and SBC are going to have a come to Jesus moment when a school like Houston, which is already running a massive deficit, has the option of sending the soccer team to UConn for $10,000 or to UTSA for $1500, and the TV deal only pays $300000 more. Plus, there's the specter for a team like SMU of getting the gate to a 10,000 butts-in-seats game against ECU versus 25,000 for us.

AAC, CUSA and SBC will soon face a stark choice - regionalize, or start having schools drop out.

10 hours ago, Cerebus said:

The LHN is a terrible deal for ESPN.  Five years into their deal (2015) ESPN had lost $48M and had notified UT they expected to back out of the deal, a last minute decision by DIRECTV to sign on saved it.  Even now, it may or may not be profitable.  That is after they have count dozens of personalities and shows like Longhorn Extra and Texas All Access and really paired down on live coverage of Olympic sports.   ESPN has already approached UT about renegotiating.  UT has told them to shove it, which is why ESPN almost defaulted on the deal.  So not only was that show those media rights aren't as valuable as people thought, it shows to me that UT isn't really that concerned about the long term health of the LHN.  They are going to wring out every piece of silver they can, then not let it keep them from moving to a more profitable conference.  

Who said the conferences have to have more members?  Some of those who are P5 now won't be P4.    And sure, the CFP is capped at 10 schools per conference now, but there is no reason the P4 can't change that to whatever they want, they control the FBS rules process.  

And you didn't even have to mention the ESPN-Fox merger, or that all of Fox's RSNs are going... somewhere? This means that for cable, the next round will probably have 1 bidder. That's not good for any conference.

[untjim1995]

10 hours ago, Legend500 said:

Less absorbing, more shuffling. Right now, some G5s can justify what they're doing because of the paycheck. But what happens when the paychecks for the Mountain and the American go down? The easiest way to balance the loss is to get more butts in seats, and lower travel costs. Both of those augur towards regionalization of the conferences. Mountain West is already in good shape, but needs to do something about Hawaii and equalizing Boise's share. But the American, CUSA and SBC are going to have a come to Jesus moment when a school like Houston, which is already running a massive deficit, has the option of sending the soccer team to UConn for $10,000 or to UTSA for $1500, and the TV deal only pays $300000 more. Plus, there's the specter for a team like SMU of getting the gate to a 10,000 butts-in-seats game against ECU versus 25,000 for us.

AAC, CUSA and SBC will soon face a stark choice - regionalize, or start having schools drop out.

You get it. These three conference have to do what the MAC and MWC have done, get more regionally aligned. The SBC, CUSA, and AAC are just fooling themselves with this current setup, especially the AAC.

 

[meanrob]

On 11/9/2018 at 10:12 AM, Cerebus said:

Hard disagree.

CUSA rights went from about a $1.4M/YR each to about $200K each.  ESPN renegotiated their deal with the SBC while it had two years left on it because they told the SBC the deal HAD to be renegotiated.   The money didn't change significantly (~100k/YR) but the SBC had to agree to more weekday games, and ESPN has the ability to change the day of games during the season.

ESPN and CBS Sports went to the MWC and told them the deal had to with three years left on the deal.  Those negations are going bad enough the MWC commissioner has public stated they are thinking of moving to some other streaming based service instead of re-upping with ESPN at the end of the deal.  MWC makes $1.8M/YR but rumors are that ESPN wanted to slash that by more than half, have more in season game moving like the SBC agreed to, and wanted to move more kicks to the 8/9  central slots.   MWC AD's don't want to lose that money, but they also don't want to alienate fans.  

The LHN is a terrible deal for ESPN.  Five years into their deal (2015) ESPN had lost $48M and had notified UT they expected to back out of the deal, a last minute decision by DIRECTV to sign on saved it.  Even now, it may or may not be profitable.  That is after they have count dozens of personalities and shows like Longhorn Extra and Texas All Access and really paired down on live coverage of Olympic sports.   ESPN has already approached UT about renegotiating.  UT has told them to shove it, which is why ESPN almost defaulted on the deal.  So not only was that show those media rights aren't as valuable as people thought, it shows to me that UT isn't really that concerned about the long term health of the LHN.  They are going to wring out every piece of silver they can, then not let it keep them from moving to a more profitable conference.  

NFL football isn't CFB.  But, ESPN flat out wasn't able to bid on Monday night football.  That had an effect on the price of it.  Of course MNF is more valuable to ESPN than CFB.  But it goes to show what dire straights they are in if they can't even make a bid.  

 

Who said the conferences have to have more members?  Some of those who are P5 now won't be P4.    And sure, the CFP is capped at 10 schools per conference now, but there is no reason the P4 can't change that to whatever they want, they control the FBS rules process.  

By live rights fees if you think I meant CUSA and Sun Belt, then we're having two different conversations. Those examples aren't even relevant. The LHN was a bad idea from the beginning. MLB and NBA rights fees are still through the roof and we'll see what happens when the P5 conferences re-negotiate. My personal opinion is if the fees go down it doesn't mean a new P5/P4 or new round of realignment. I think it just makes a bigger playoff in play to bring in more money. There are other revenue streams out there besides TV.

 

 

[southsideguy]

IF we go to regional  in conference the teams" Schools in the region UNT, Rice, UTEP, UTSA, ARK ST, Texas State, SMUT, Houston maybe La Tech ,Tulsa.  If the big 8 goes away, i think Baylor, Texas Tech and TCU might be available.  Not sure how it would be broken up and I know some teams would not take it well but when the P-5 goes to a P-4 they are not going to want to share the money with teams they dont want and if the Big 8 goes away that is what they will do. I could have left teams out this is just off the top of my head.

[untjim1995]

I still think that you could see an old school jump back to independence, ala BYU now and how it used to be back in the early 80's with Penn State, Miami, FSU, Louisville, etc...

The private schools have $$$ to keep them afloat and will want to try and use independence to sell their fans on still being eligible for being included in the national championship hunt. Again, see BYU.

I can easily see TCU and Baylor trying this method and finding leagues to join for their other sports. 

[Cerebus]

 

[Arkstfan]

On 11/9/2018 at 11:12 AM, Cerebus said:

Hard disagree.

CUSA rights went from about a $1.4M/YR each to about $200K each.  ESPN renegotiated their deal with the SBC while it had two years left on it because they told the SBC the deal HAD to be renegotiated.   The money didn't change significantly (~100k/YR) but the SBC had to agree to more weekday games, and ESPN has the ability to change the day of games during the season.

ESPN and CBS Sports went to the MWC and told them the deal had to with three years left on the deal.  Those negations are going bad enough the MWC commissioner has public stated they are thinking of moving to some other streaming based service instead of re-upping with ESPN at the end of the deal.  MWC makes $1.8M/YR but rumors are that ESPN wanted to slash that by more than half, have more in season game moving like the SBC agreed to, and wanted to move more kicks to the 8/9  central slots.   MWC AD's don't want to lose that money, but they also don't want to alienate fans.  

The LHN is a terrible deal for ESPN.  Five years into their deal (2015) ESPN had lost $48M and had notified UT they expected to back out of the deal, a last minute decision by DIRECTV to sign on saved it.  Even now, it may or may not be profitable.  That is after they have count dozens of personalities and shows like Longhorn Extra and Texas All Access and really paired down on live coverage of Olympic sports.   ESPN has already approached UT about renegotiating.  UT has told them to shove it, which is why ESPN almost defaulted on the deal.  So not only was that show those media rights aren't as valuable as people thought, it shows to me that UT isn't really that concerned about the long term health of the LHN.  They are going to wring out every piece of silver they can, then not let it keep them from moving to a more profitable conference.  

NFL football isn't CFB.  But, ESPN flat out wasn't able to bid on Monday night football.  That had an effect on the price of it.  Of course MNF is more valuable to ESPN than CFB.  But it goes to show what dire straights they are in if they can't even make a bid.  

 

Who said the conferences have to have more members?  Some of those who are P5 now won't be P4.    And sure, the CFP is capped at 10 schools per conference now, but there is no reason the P4 can't change that to whatever they want, they control the FBS rules process.  

Sun Belt added one additional weeknight game. 

I think the P5/G5 gap is going to continue to grow. The networks are mostly seeking BIG draws and will fight for those events and leagues. 

But otherwise no one except ESPN, Stadium and to a lesser degree CBSSN is chasing non-premium content. 

Fox not bidding on CUSA was a signal to everyone without premium content or high value niche content. 

[Arkstfan]

On 11/10/2018 at 8:27 AM, untjim1995 said:

You get it. These three conference have to do what the MAC and MWC have done, get more regionally aligned. The SBC, CUSA, and AAC are just fooling themselves with this current setup, especially the AAC.

 

We will see when it comes to AAC. They deliver good ratings but if no one tries to outbid ESPN the ratings won’t mean much.