MGB: Key questions UNT’s new AD will face Part III — What’s the scheduling philosophy?

untjim1995 · May 31, 2016

16 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

And a good chance that Butt Cookman also beats us this year...

So it's a rivalry then?

If Butt Cookman beats us, it is the absolute worst thing that can happen...because it means we probably go 0-12 or 1-11 again and that we are still bottoming out as a program. If we cannot match last season's win total, we aren't improving at all. We may have won a game last year, but anyone with a brain recognizes that this was the flukiest win we could get--playing a bad team at home with their 4th and 5th string QBs and scoring a late 4th qtr TD to win.

Butt Cookman will be the only game we are favored in this year. Its the only way possible in a game this season for Seth Littrell to let us down with this collection of players he has inherited. If we go 1-11, which is very possible, he will get excused for it just because everyone but the green-colored glasses-wearing crowd know that we have one of the worst teams in the country. Personally, if Littrell wins 2 games this year with this bunch, I'll know we are on the right path. But if we lose to Butt Cookman at home and go winless or win one fluky game again, all it will tell me is that we still have no idea if Littrell can turn this thing around.

2016 continues to be all about wins in the recruiting battles. Much bigger and more important challenges than any game we play this year. We simply cannot get better if we are still recruiting classes that are rated in the bottom quartile of the G5s.

Edited May 31, 2016 by untjim1995

Ben Gooding · May 31, 2016

20 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

If Butt Cookman beats us, it is the absolute worst thing that can happen...because it means we probably go 0-12 or 1-11 again and that we are still bottoming out as a program. If we cannot match last season's win total, we aren't improving at all. We may have won a game last year, but anyone with a brain recognizes that this was the flukiest win we could get--playing a bad team at home with their 4th and 5th string QBs and scoring a late 4th qtr TD to win.

Butt Cookman will be the only game we are favored in this year. Its the only way possible in a game this season for Seth Littrell to let us down with this collection of players he has inherited. If we go 1-11, which is very possible, he will get excused for it just because everyone but the green-colored glasses-wearing crowd know that we have one of the worst teams in the country. Personally, if Littrell wins 2 games this year with this bunch, I'll know we are on the right path. But if we lose to Butt Cookman at home and go winless or win one fluky game again, all it will tell me is that we still have no idea if Littrell can turn this thing around.

2016 continues to be all about wins in the recruiting battles. Much bigger and more important challenges than any game we play this year. We simply cannot get better if we are still recruiting classes that are rated in the bottom quartile of the G5s.

We did almost and could have easily beaten utep. So, there's always that. I know you and 90 like to point out the only win as it being the only thing close to a win when reality is that we almost won the season finale as well. And should have really, but Greer.

untjim1995 · May 31, 2016

1 minute ago, Ben Gooding said:

We did almost and could have easily beaten utep. So, there's always that. I know you and 90 like to point out the only win as it being the only thing close to a win when reality is that we almost won the season finale as well. And should have really, but Greer.

If your aunt had balls, she'd be your uncle...

UTEP clearly was a bad team--to even be in a game with us last year proves that. But a lot of that was do to it being the last game of the season and playing on the weekend of Turkey Day, the game that absolutely matters the least to anyone associated with bad teams.

This year, those two awful teams, UTEP and UTSA, are road games. I cannot remember the last time we won a game on the road in the state of Texas--probably Tech in Lubbock in 1999. I'm just praying we can beat one of the UT-satellite campuses. If we do that, along with a win over Butt Cookman, we can all say we have seen MAJOR progress from last year's disaster.

We have five winnable games next year--SMU, Butt Cookman, @Army, @UTSA, and @UTEP. I think we get the Butt Cookman game and win one of the road games, probably UTSA.

Silent Eagle · May 31, 2016

5 hours ago, wardly said:

We financially need to play at least two body bag road game a year for budget purposes. In the near future UNT should hope to get that down to one if new AD can increase donations. The SMU/Army series are, in my opinion , both winners, and I have no problem with a home game with a regional 1aa opponent. The goal should be to get in a financial position where we can afford a 1 for 1 with a G5 program. The problem is that we are not an attractive home game opponent unless its at a program where fans come out to see their team play[like LSU] regardless of who they play.

I don't buy it, nor do I think anyone should. Total cop out answer (or RV go-to response) to fiduciary conundrums is "let's sacrifice our health/dignity by becoming a dial-a-whore for big money programs". Look at the numbers in the DFW area. I'm not naïve enough to believe that 100% of the alumni base can be won over. But by harnessing even 50% initially through the AD genuinely caring beyond a number more than 15 but less than 20 donors, it's a start. If the AD does his job right and the team takes care of business on the field, the rest takes care of itself. We can ditch the whore protocol.

Ben Gooding · May 31, 2016

33 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

If your aunt had balls, she'd be your uncle...

UTEP clearly was a bad team--to even be in a game with us last year proves that. But a lot of that was do to it being the last game of the season and playing on the weekend of Turkey Day, the game that absolutely matters the least to anyone associated with bad teams.

This year, those two awful teams, UTEP and UTSA, are road games. I cannot remember the last time we won a game on the road in the state of Texas--probably Tech in Lubbock in 1999. I'm just praying we can beat one of the UT-satellite campuses. If we do that, along with a win over Butt Cookman, we can all say we have seen MAJOR progress from last year's disaster.

We have five winnable games next year--SMU, Butt Cookman, @Army, @UTSA, and @UTEP. I think we get the Butt Cookman game and win one of the road games, probably UTSA.

Calling 2-10 major progress is idiotic regardless of anything else.

untjim1995 · May 31, 2016

When you are one of the three worst teams in the country--we are considered to be the 126th best FBS team for 2016, ahead of ULM and UMass--progress is getting better. For us, on the scoreboard front, last year we miraculously won a game. In reality, we should have been 0-12. If we win 2 games next year, its doubling up what we did last year. BTW, SMU did the exact same thing last year, winning 2 games after winning one the year before. And everyone talks about the improvement that SMU saw last year from Morris' first season of being in charge. Now, this season, college football experts believe that SMU can become a team that gets to 4-6 wins. IOW, everyone else looked at them as having some major progress from where June Jones left them. Similar to what Todd Monken did at USM, in winning one game his first season after taking over a winless team.

These two teams are what we have to hope to emulate...

Ben Gooding · May 31, 2016

18 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

When you are one of the three worst teams in the country--we are considered to be the 126th best FBS team for 2016, ahead of ULM and UMass--progress is getting better. For us, on the scoreboard front, last year we miraculously won a game. In reality, we should have been 0-12. If we win 2 games next year, its doubling up what we did last year. BTW, SMU did the exact same thing last year, winning 2 games after winning one the year before. And everyone talks about the improvement that SMU saw last year from Morris' first season of being in charge. Now, this season, college football experts believe that SMU can become a team that gets to 4-6 wins. IOW, everyone else looked at them as having some major progress from where June Jones left them. Similar to what Todd Monken did at USM, in winning one game his first season after taking over a winless team.

These two teams are what we have to hope to emulate...

I don't care about any of that. And I really don't care about what smug did. That is why I said regardless of anything else, stating 2-10 as success is a part of the DNA of being a UNT fan and it needs to stop immediately. That is not success no matter the year before or what changes going on. 2-10 should always be held to a very high level of unacceptability.

untjim1995 · May 31, 2016

Just now, Ben Gooding said:

I don't care about any of that. And I really don't care about what smug did. That is why I said regardless of anything else, stating 2-10 as success is a part of the DNA of being a UNT fan and it needs to stop immediately. That is not success no matter the year before or what changes going on. 2-10 should always be held to a very high level of unacceptability.

Fair enough.

The rest of the college football world disagrees with you when comparing our situation, but its cool you are going against the grain.

There's a big difference, young Ben, between "progress" and "acceptability"...not once have I said that 2 wins should be considered acceptable. I just think that it will show progress from a season ago, when we were coached by Metamucil McCarney, with QBs that couldn't start at a decent FCS school, while watching us get bent over a barrel in front of a Homecoming crowd and gladly take it from a FCS nobody in the form of a 59 point prison raping, and only won a game because of miraculous circumstances.

VideoEagle · May 31, 2016

1 hour ago, UNT90 said:

6 in the last 30 years.

Yes, 6 in the last 30, 35 in the last 100 verse 1 over the last 100. Portland State was a last minute fill in game to avoid a 4 game home schedule by a guy who has since been fired. Playing SMU is something are fans clamored for over the years - some still use the old Matt Simon quote in their signatures. Before the game was scheduled, I'll bet a number of our fans weren't sure if it was Portland, Maine or Portland, Oregon. Everyone knows SMU and SMU fans all know us.

Cerebus · May 31, 2016

All I know is I sure love beating SMU. Keep it up, and they will absolutely HATE losing to us. That is how rivalries start.

Ben Gooding · May 31, 2016

27 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

Fair enough.

The rest of the college football world disagrees with you when comparing our situation, but its cool you are going against the grain.

There's a big difference, young Ben, between "progress" and "acceptability"...not once have I said that 2 wins should be considered acceptable. I just think that it will show progress from a season ago, when we were coached by Metamucil McCarney, with QBs that couldn't start at a decent FCS school, while watching us get bent over a barrel in front of a Homecoming crowd and gladly take it from a FCS nobody in the form of a 59 point prison raping, and only won a game because of miraculous circumstances.

Calling 2-10 progress is inferring acceptability.

untjim1995 · May 31, 2016

2 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

Calling 2-10 progress is inferring acceptability.

No it isn't...your ability to critically think needs to improve greatly...so does your posting

wardly · May 31, 2016

Regarding playing "body bag games", I saw a post that had us D.A.L. in annual athletic contributions with only $800,000 in giving.At about a $million a pop,where does Silent Eagle think the money in going to come from to replace that revenue?

Ben Gooding · May 31, 2016

1 hour ago, untjim1995 said:

No it isn't...your ability to critically think needs to improve greatly...so does your posting

k. 2-10 sucks. It's marginally better than 1-11. But to me there is no difference in 2-10 than there is to 0-12. It's still full of suck. My expectations of things may just be greater than yours. No biggy.

Ryan Munthe · May 31, 2016

Until our donations and attendance improves, body bag games will continue. That's the reality. We are reliant on that money and still run at a loss.

Side Show Joe · May 31, 2016

8 hours ago, wardly said:

We financially need to play at least two body bag road game a year for budget purposes. In the near future UNT should hope to get that down to one if new AD can increase donations. The SMU/Army series are, in my opinion , both winners, and I have no problem with a home game with a regional 1aa opponent. The goal should be to get in a financial position where we can afford a 1 for 1 with a G5 program. The problem is that we are not an attractive home game opponent unless its at a program where fans come out to see their team play[like LSU] regardless of who they play.

I don't understand this. How are we in this financial position?

Our athletic budget is about $10 million more then LA Tech, but they have Mississippi State in 2017. If they can do it in a state that is broke and with much less money, then we should be able to have similar scheduling success.

Also, Southern Miss with their smaller budget was able to lure Mississippi State to Hattiesburg this past season.

Edited May 31, 2016 by Side Show Joe

Harry · May 31, 2016

4 minutes ago, Ryan Munthe said:

Until our donations and attendance improves, body bag games will continue. That's the reality. We are reliant on that money and still run at a loss.

Sort of a chicken versus egg type of deal. I think when @DallasGreen is trying to address with the student fee is a way to generate revenue to offset body bag games and adding new sports like baseball.

TreeFiddy · May 31, 2016

14 minutes ago, Side Show Joe said:

I don't understand this. How are we in this financial position?

Our athletic budget is about $10 million more then LA Tech, but they have South Carolina State at home this season, and Mississippi State in 2017. If they can do it in a state that is broke and with much less money, then we should be able to have similar scheduling success.

Also, Southern Miss with their smaller budget was able to lure Mississippi State to Hattiesburg this past season.

I don't think that means what you think it means.

Side Show Joe · May 31, 2016

31 minutes ago, TreeFiddy said:

I don't think that means what you think it means.

Oops. Overlooked that. Thanks.

FirefightnRick · May 31, 2016

There is no telling where we could help ourselves budget wise?

1. Stop staying in high end hotels for home games.

2. Work to better negotiate contracts that benefit North Texas rather than benefitting XYZ P5.

3. End wasteful contract extensions and bonuses where they are not warranted.

4. Stop wasting money buying 3-5 different uniforms every year.

5. Actually work at sales and promotions like your career depends on it.

6. Don't make promises you can't keep. Donors and customers don't like this and tend to walk away when it happens.

7. Deliver product people pay for.

Rick

Edited May 31, 2016 by FirefightnRick

Silent Eagle · June 1, 2016

4 hours ago, FirefightnRick said:

There is no telling where we could help ourselves budget wise?

1. Stop staying in high end hotels for home games.

2. Work to better negotiate contracts that benefit North Texas rather than benefitting XYZ P5.

3. End wasteful contract extensions and bonuses where they are not warranted.

4. Stop wasting money buying 3-5 different uniforms every year.

5. Actually work at sales and promotions like your career depends on it.

6. Don't make promises you can't keep. Donors and customers don't like this and tend to walk away when it happens.

7. Deliver product people pay for.

Rick

Regarding Wardly's response to my post, Rick is spot on. Expenses can be cut for travel and uniforms. Regarding the rest of it, we do have to continue to increase the student fee. If the students protest, go away. We don't need that crowd. We won't win them over anyway. As we improve and in the very near future become a winner, the students won't care. We can't worry about alienating the "Berkeley South" clique. It won't be an issue if we offer a game day experience, not an amateur hour half-assed effort that we're used to. Market, Market, Market! If we do that, the body bag games will become a non issue. RV fell back on the body bag games because he refused to do his job. And I can say that because I had to reach out and ask to donate money. People have to reach out to renew their season tickets.

UNT90 · June 1, 2016

15 hours ago, Cerebus said:

All I know is I sure love beating SMU. Keep it up, and they will absolutely HATE losing to us. That is how rivalries start.

Then it might be a rivalry. It isn't right now, and I think SMU opts out after year 4 regardless (yes, they have that option). We should know if that is going to happen by late summer.

And it's just another game until something makes it not just another game. I just don't see that happening with SMU.

Edited June 1, 2016 by UNT90

MeanGreenTexan · June 1, 2016

15 hours ago, wardly said:

Regarding playing "body bag games", I saw a post that had us D.A.L. in annual athletic contributions with only $800,000 in giving.At about a $million a pop,where does Silent Eagle think the money in going to come from to replace that revenue?

Well, we're contractually obligated to play the "body-bag games" through 2021, so that won't be changing any time soon. Hopefully, by 2021, there will be a much bigger stream of alumni giving than the measly $800k Rick could muster. Need an AD that can generate those funds. Then, we'll be in a position where the paycheck games are no longer needed and we can start looking to get the home-home deals with P5s.

13 hours ago, FirefightnRick said:

There is no telling where we could help ourselves budget wise?

1. Stop staying in high end hotels for home games.

...

Rick

This is completely normal and expected.
This way, you have all of your players in a single building and can monitor them. Let them stay at their own place on Friday night, and half the team is going to Fry St. to have a good time... then get smashed the next day because they're not rested/prepared.

... unless your qualm was with the "high-end" part (which, I don't think the one they stay in down by TMS is "high-end")... in that case, I guess we could have the team show up tired & itchy because they couldn't sleep on the bedbug (and that's the 'better' bug) infested mattress at the Desert Sands Inn.

Staying in hotels the night before a home game won't stop.

UNTFan23 · June 1, 2016

2 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Well, we're contractually obligated to play the "body-bag games" through 2021, so that won't be changing any time soon. Hopefully, by 2021, there will be a much bigger stream of alumni giving than the measly $800k Rick could muster. Need an AD that can generate those funds. Then, we'll be in a position where the paycheck games are no longer needed and we can start looking to get the home-home deals with P5s.

This is completely normal and expected.
This way, you have all of your players in a single building and can monitor them. Let them stay at their own place on Friday night, and half the team is going to Fry St. to have a good time... then get smashed the next day because they're not rested/prepared.

... unless your qualm was with the "high-end" part (which, I don't think the one they stay in down by TMS is "high-end")... in that case, I guess we could have the team show up tired & itchy because they couldn't sleep on the bedbug (and that's the 'better' bug) infested mattress at the Desert Sands Inn.

Staying in hotels the night before a home game won't stop.

Your "high end" hotels are generally the only ones that have enough meeting space for the entire team for all the pre-game meetings that take place.

UNTcrazy727 · June 1, 2016

13 hours ago, FirefightnRick said:

There is no telling where we could help ourselves budget wise?

1. Stop staying in high end hotels for home games.

2. Work to better negotiate contracts that benefit North Texas rather than benefitting XYZ P5.

3. End wasteful contract extensions and bonuses where they are not warranted.

4. Stop wasting money buying 3-5 different uniforms every year.

5. Actually work at sales and promotions like your career depends on it.

6. Don't make promises you can't keep. Donors and customers don't like this and tend to walk away when it happens.

7. Deliver product people pay for.

Rick

We don't do this compared to other schools, but we probably should since we currently have some of the worst uniforms in college football. Hate it or not, uniforms are a big part of recruiting nowadays. A program like UNT needs to be as creative as possible when it comes to their look on the field. Kids don't grow up wanting to play for the Mean Green so we need to make our "look" as attractive as possible to high school athletes.

I don't think RV and Mac understood or even cared about this, which explains our boring and hideous uniforms the past 5 years. I have faith Littrell and Co. will finally put us on the right track.