FOX: NCAA might not sanction Baylor after what happened in Penn State case

[Cerebus]

NCAA might not sanction Baylor after what happened in Penn State case

Quote

If you read the report Baylor issued Thursday detailing the school's systemic mishandling of sexual assault cases, you could easily describe what happened there as a "failure of institutional integrity leading to a culture in which a football program was held in higher esteem than the values of the institution."

Perhaps you'd fault now-fired coach Art Briles for his "lack of adherence to fundamental notions of individual integrity." Maybe you'd cite the school's Title IX officers for "a failure to maintain minimal standards of appropriate and responsible conduct."

If so, you'd be using the exact language the NCAA did in 2012 when issuing severe sanctions against Penn State for alleged failure by coach Joe Paterno and other leaders to prevent sexual assaults against children by former assistant Jerry Sandusky.

In both instances, gridiron glory took precedence over justice and public safety. In both cases, a revered football coach either downplayed or ignored troubling accusations. And each coach's superiors showed disregard toward the alleged victims.

But experts on the NCAA's infractions process say they'd be surprised if the organization steps in to dispense bowl bans or vacate victories at Baylor like it did at Penn State.

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There is, however, one passage in the report that could in theory catch the enforcement staff's attention: "The football program's separate system of internal discipline reinforces the perception that rules applicable to other students are not applicable to football players."

It's an NCAA rulebook no-no to bestow favors on athletes.

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As for Briles or any other staffers who might have attempted to cover up allegations against Bears players, plenty of coaches before them -- Jim Tressel, John Blake, Bruce Pearl -- met their demise due to NCAA Bylaw 10.1: "Unethical Conduct." The actions described in Baylor's report would seemingly be the very definition.

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"If you're going by the Penn State template, then yeah, they absolutely could get involved at Baylor," Ridpath said. "But if I'm making a guess today, it's that they won't get involved."

Incredible.  

[MeanGreenTexan]

Anyone still think Herman wouldn't be interested?

[UNTFan23]

After getting legally slapped down regarding its sanctions it handed down, I don't think the NCAA is anxious to get into the middle of another criminal case involving one of its member institutions.

[letsgiveacheer]

Of course they are not going to sanction Baylor or any other big program. Those days are past.

After 20+ years of fake courses, what did they do to UNC?  Nothing.

[oldguystudent]

Why even have an NCAA anymore?

[TreeFiddy]

It will be interesting to see how it plays out.  I don't expect the NCAA to get involved in the criminal aspects, but they could very well curve this around into some sort of improper benefits or something of that sort that the players received (in order to keep them out of trouble and eligible to play).  Since the football program clearly benefited from their actions, which are outside of university policy, I could see them justifying their involvement (NCAA).

Just like with the pedo st example, they are not equipped or authorized to get involved in criminal matters.  I don't think you could argue that the football team or individual players benefited from the alleged HC and administrator involvement with Sandusky.  When the NCAA essentially used the criminal act as their reason for involvement/punishment, the state sued to stop them and won.

Edited May 28, 2016 by TreeFiddy

[UNTcrazy727]

8 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Anyone still think Herman wouldn't be interested?

Not happening. 

[untjim1995]

I still think the NCAA is going to make an example out of little ol' Baylor...they are the perfect size school to hit hard.

[pastorgrant]

I still do a double take every time I see that Penn State is still playing football.

[Mean Green 93-98]

The NCAA's responsibility is to punish schools who violate their regulations.  If it's a legal matter, it's for the law to handle.

[Cerebus]

3 hours ago, Mean Green 93-98 said:

The NCAA's responsibility is to punish schools who violate their regulations.  If it's a legal matter, it's for the law to handle.

The coaches of the Baylor's NCAA football program were able to "investigate" claims of sexual assault and then decide to not report them.  It's pretty obvious that to do so they had to have influence, if not flat out control, over Baylor's Title IX and counseling services.   If you read the Baylor forums a lot of the anger is directed at the fact that people in the Baylor PD, the Baylor Title IX office, and Baylor student counseling also need to be held accountable.

If that isn't a clear cut case of a football program overriding the rest of school, what the NCAA considers "loss of institutional control", then I don't know what in the world could meet that criteria.  

This is a matter for the Waco PD AND the NCAA.  The Waco PD should investigate and punish anyone who broke criminal laws, the NCAA should sanction the school that lost institutional control of it's athletic program. 

Edited May 28, 2016 by Cerebus

[eulessismore]

On ‎5‎/‎28‎/‎2016 at 11:52 AM, pastorgrant said:

I still do a double take every time I see that Penn State is still playing football.

It's kind of disgusting that folks on the Baylor Board are blaming their woes on "people hating Christians".  One guy in Baylor athletics history acted against bearing false witness, and nobody seems to think it wrong that he was blackballed from coaching basketball.  I wonder what Abar Rouse is up to these days.  Probably living more virtuously than Coach K and his other critics.  Hey, even Dave Bliss gets his chance at redemption:

http://www.houstonpress.com/news/wait-someone-hired-dave-bliss-to-be-a-head-coach-even-after-what-happened-at-baylor-7372978

[Cr1028]

On 5/27/2016 at 2:25 PM, Cerebus said:

NCAA might not sanction Baylor after what happened in Penn State case

Incredible.  

Quote

There is, however, one passage in the report that could in theory catch the enforcement staff's attention: "The football program's separate system of internal discipline reinforces the perception that rules applicable to other students are not applicable to football players."

It's an NCAA rulebook no-no to bestow favors on athletes

This happens at every program, including ours. Every time some jackwagon steals from the Denton Walmart, it is handled internally. Typically it just means extra conditioning, no? If the NCAA is going to hold that against Baylor then they are going to have to get rid of the "handled internally" altogether and have essentially a standard punishment for every offense.

[TreeFiddy]

1 minute ago, Cr1028 said:

This happens at every program, including ours. Every time some jackwagon steals from the Denton Walmart, it is handled internally. Typically it just means extra conditioning, no? If the NCAA is going to hold that against Baylor then they are going to have to get rid of the "handled internally" altogether and have essentially a standard punishment for every offense.

Except for federal statutes like Title IX that require institutions to report violence against women.   The same is not true for incidents involving theft. I agree that many incidents are handled internally. 

I get the feeling there was a lot more going on at BU. We way or may not end up hearing the details but there is a lot more smoke than what has come to light. 

[Graddean]

I don't think this is an NCAA issue.  It is systematic which should make it an issue for SACS, the regional accreditator.  Most of the accreditator said have a base principle of ethical behavior.  I have not read the Baylor mission; however, it is difficult to believe the administrative behavior has been consistent with their mission statement.  The threat of losing accreditation is the greatest threat an institution could face.  Without accreditation, no federal funds are available to the school or students.  

[VideoEagle]

1 hour ago, TreeFiddy said:

Except for federal statutes like Title IX that require institutions to report violence against women.   The same is not true for incidents involving theft. I agree that many incidents are handled internally. 

 

This is exactly what happened at Baylor according to the report. When some on the staff of the university hears a report of a possible act of violence against a woman, they are obligated to immediately report it to the local police. There are also some requirement to conduct their own investigation, but not interfere in anyway with the criminal investigation. They aren't evenly allow to SAY any kind of investigation is occurring or has occurred as letting the information leak is also a violation of Title IX. Briles started his own, in-house investigation without going to the police first. It appears that became a pattern at Baylor not just for the football team, but across the school which is why Starr is out as President. Briles and Starr are supposed to report and keep quiet first and foremost. 

[untjim1995]

Look, the NCAA is going to look at the Baylor situation and see that 15 years ago, they had to heavily sanction and damn near Death penalty their mens basketball program. Baylor cleaned house, yet here we are again, seeing a brand new collection of criminals looking the other way and openly hurting victims of rape by football players just to be a money maker. Even after cleaning house again, a small school with a conservative bent and a former leader that many government officials want to get revenge upon (Ken Starr) all equals a situation that won't end well for Baylor. Penn State is a public giant in a gigantic money-making conference--doesn't make what happened there right, but it explains the difference. Politics will play a huge part in this--and Baylor's political stances aren't popular right now in these times from a media and governmental direction.

Baylor is about to get hit hard--just watch.

[Wag Tag]

On May 27, 2016 at 2:25 PM, Cerebus said:

NCAA might not sanction Baylor after what happened in Penn State case

Incredible.  

What we are really talking about concerning punishment is $ costs. Civil, criminal, and NCAA sanctions just one of these could cost Baylor big bucks but the civil side could be 10s of millions. Wait and see who has been fired of let go and see how many wrong full termination suits are filed along with the victims lawsuits. Baylor will not want to go to court on any of these so they will be motivated to settle for big, big bucks. Brides will be filling a lawsuit, I guarantee!

[UNTFan23]

1 minute ago, untjim1995 said:

Look, the NCAA is going to look at the Baylor situation and see that 15 years ago, they had to heavily sanction and damn near Death penalty their mens basketball program. Baylor cleaned house, yet here we are again, seeing a brand new collection of criminals looking the other way and openly hurting victims of rape by football players just to be a money maker. Even after cleaning house again, a small school with a conservative bent and a former leader that many government officials want to get revenge upon (Ken Starr) all equals a situation that won't end well for Baylor. Penn State is a public giant in a gigantic money-making conference--doesn't make what happened there right, but it explains the difference. Politics will play a huge part in this--and Baylor's political stances aren't popular right now in these times from a media and governmental direction.

Baylor is about to get hit hard--just watch.

And if Baylor is smart, they'll call Penn State and ask them what they did to get many of the sanctions reversed. The NCAA lost several lawsuits and I don't think they are anxious to get involved in another criminal matter like this.

[Cerebus]

8 hours ago, Cr1028 said:

This happens at every program, including ours. Every time some jackwagon steals from the Denton Walmart, it is handled internally. 

To my knowledge, every time some jackwagon stole from Denton Walmart the Denton Police were involved and the law was allowed to take it's course.  The administration had just as much responsibility to respond to that as to any other student stealing from Walmart.  (i.e. not a whole lot)

Baylor's football program did not allow the Waco PD to get involved in some cases, and in other cases seemed to have undue influence over Baylor PD and other Baylor institutions.  Add to that the administration had EXTRA RESPONSIBILITY to deal with these cases under Title IX.

 

7 hours ago, Graddean said:

I don't think this is an NCAA issue.  It is systematic which should make it an issue for SACS, the regional accreditator. 

Wow.  The NCAA death penalty would be a stiff summer breeze compared to the firestorm SACS penalties would be.  I can't imagine they would get involved in this?

[Stan R]

Just now, Cerebus said:

To my knowledge, every time some jackwagon stole from Denton Walmart the Denton Police were involved and the law was allowed to take it's course.  The administration had just as much responsibility to respond to that as to any other student stealing from Walmart.  (i.e. not a whole lot)

Baylor's football program did not allow the Waco PD to get involved in some cases, and in other cases seemed to have undue influence over Baylor PD and other Baylor institutions.  Add to that the administration had EXTRA RESPONSIBILITY to deal with these cases under Title IX.

 

Wow.  The NCAA death penalty would be a stiff summer breeze compared to the firestorm SACS penalties would be.  I can't imagine they would get involved in this?

How can there not be an investigation into obstruction of justice? Seems like there should be criminal investigations here, not just civil. Maybe that will happen but I haven't read that anywhere yet. 

[Arkstfan]

Regional accrediting bodies need better tools. Right now they have option 1, the sternly worded letter, option 2, nuclear winter the school is essentially shut down. They need other options. Auburn got a sternly worded letter over the involvement of a booster in running athletics. UNC should have been severely sanctioned for fake programs but they got a sternly worded letter.

The NCAA could hook them on impermissible benefit but do they have the stomach to call getting away with rape a benefit?

As for the idea that the NCAA would be afraid to act because Baylor is P5, I don't buy it. If the NCAA fears power schools then they would hammer Baylor for pooping in OU and UT's cereal bowl.

The NCAA got exposed bluffing Penn State during the litigation, they will be 100% sure of jurisdiction before they touch it.