No competitive student athletic fee will doom ANY new AD

DallasGreen · May 24, 2016

All of you are kidding yourself if you think anyone wants to step into a job with no support from the top down. Fear of a competitive student fee shows the only way to go is down, we will soon be UTA II.

foutsrouts · May 24, 2016

3 minutes ago, DallasGreen said:

All of you are kidding yourself if you think anyone wants to step into a job with no support from the top down. Fear of a competitive student fee shows the only way to go is down, we will soon be UTA II.

I know from experience that it's tough being a MeanGreener, but sorry, I just don't share your doomsday pessimism. I wouldn't even bother posting if I did. We're in the process of cleaning house at most top levels other than the Prez, so I'm actually becoming fairly optimistic. Time for new beginnings, and let's hope that we can manage to win a few games next fall to get things started.

GrandGreen · May 24, 2016

NT relies way too much on student fees, both dedicated and otherwise. There are a lot of schools that get more dedicated athletic money like the Texas Twins and CUSA Florida schools, but include those other transfers that NT uses to balance the budget and NT is right up there

One big negative is that NT has tied up half their dedicated fee for debt service on Apogee. Kind of takes the shine of RV's biggest cited accomplishment.

I think the days of soaking students, the majority of which seldom ever attend any athletic event is about over. Not just for NT but most universities that rely on those funds. The answer is to stop the escalation of cost not blindly throwing money into a rigged game.

TreeFiddy · May 24, 2016

It seems more prudent to worry about the overall budget rather than where the money is coming from. Would it make people happy if the student fee was raised, but the institutional support was lowered? As long as the budget is where we need it and the university is ok with picking up the shortfall, then I don't see the big issue.

If we need to raise the budget and the university says no mas, then you may have to look at the student fee or other fundraising.

Harry · May 24, 2016

Building Apogee prevented us from ever being compared to UTA.

I realize this is an important topic for you. And I agree that we need to have a competitive budget. Case in point, we are second in C-USA but 10 million behind ODU who is now being mentioned as a AAC expansion candidate.

That said, I think we need to be careful about increasing student fees. Rising college tuition is a Big issue right now. Part of why we are increasing our academic ranking and enrollment is keeping the tuition low and making ourselves a good choice for families.

i would like us to consider adjusting the fees in a reasonable way, but would like to see the University allocate more discretionary funding to athletics as well.

Aquila_Viridis · May 24, 2016

The students should pay some but that is not the first place to go looking. Initially I questioned 'University of North Texas' as a name choice but I was young then and even dumber then than now. Now I think it was a wise choice. I look for an AD who can get a lot of money from the 'North Texas' that this 'University' is 'of'. The economy of the region is absolutely gigantic. It is such a huge opportunity and potentially huge advantage, relative to what other places that have their own university can offer. I do find it mysterious how exactly such AD would capitalize on such advantage, but I also find engineering jet engines mysterious. Yet people are doing it as their day job very successfully every day. Probably most people would find what I do mysterious. Unfortunately it is not 'building a successful urban university athletic program'. But someone is out there doing that right now, and we need to hire them. I guarantee you, their approach is not 'lean on the students'.

Even though I have no idea what I'm doing in the area of Athletics Administration, that doesn't stop me from brainstorming. One way to get money from the community members who are otherwise unaffiliated with NT would be to get them to come to games, and first you would have to get them to think they OUGHT to be coming to games. Another is to get businesses to think that supporting the university's athletics programs will help make their area more attractive to talented employee candidates. There are more big business in the North Texas region than almost any other region. They pump money into a lot of things but for most it is probably not UNT sports. That seems like a big lost opportunity.

LongJim · May 24, 2016

You have to keep cultivating alums to give. That's the only way this gets done right. There has been a lot of improvement in this area, but it is a process that literally takes generations.

VideoEagle · May 24, 2016

It has to be a balancing act. If fees increase too much, the legislature will step in and who knows what they will do. If you read the newspapers, students and their parents are complaining to their state legislators and starting to demand a stop to the increases in tuition and fees.

But a steady increase in money is what the athletic department must have if they are going to improve. That's why getting MGC donations, season ticket sales and other donations up is absolutely vital. The new AD must spend a lot of time on this. You only hire coaches every so often - fund raising is constant!

oldguystudent · May 24, 2016

There are like fifteen season ticket holders out there presently. BETTER CHARGE THE STUDENTS MORE!

My kid seems to be actively RESISTING looking at schools with big athletic programs. Money is a HUGE consideration for the savvy student. College ain't about going and finding yourself with a joint and a co-ed anymore. It's an investment that is going to rival a home purchase in terms of biggest personal outlay in one's life.

And to give you all a chuckle, she said of the University of Texas, "I'm a (Lewisville) Farmer right now. How's it an improvement to go down and become a cow?"

VideoEagle · May 24, 2016

39 minutes ago, oldguystudent said:

College ain't about going and finding yourself with a joint and a co-ed anymore.

Let's not get carried away now.

Harry · May 24, 2016

One thing that I would agree with @DallasGreen on is that we are taking a hit with the television revenues to the tune of about $500K with ESPN and the rest laying people off and the rise of streaming. So I would like to see us supplicate that with funding although I would prefer it to not be only on the backs of the students.

Army of Dad · May 24, 2016

2 minutes ago, Harry said:

One thing that I would agree with @DallasGreen on is that we are taking a hit with the television revenues to the tune of about $500K with ESPN and the rest laying people off and the rise of streaming. So I would like to see us supplicate that with funding although I would prefer it to not be only on the backs of the students.

Agree, the ideal means for additional funding is from attendance and booster support.

oldguystudent · May 24, 2016

19 minutes ago, Harry said:

One thing that I would agree with @DallasGreen on is that we are taking a hit with the television revenues to the tune of about $500K with ESPN and the rest laying people off and the rise of streaming. So I would like to see us supplicate that with funding although I would prefer it to not be only on the backs of the students.

I just tire of the pervasiveness of the "We got ours! F'em! Charge the students! (Now how do I get my $50 alumni season tickets?)" mentality over the years. It's selfish and wrong. We want it? We should pay for it.

MeanGreenTexan · May 24, 2016

4 minutes ago, oldguystudent said:

I just tire of the pervasiveness of the "We got ours! F'em! Charge the students! (Now how do I get my $50 alumni season tickets?)" mentality over the years. It's selfish and wrong. We want it? We should pay for it.

I think there have been 2 references to some sky-high student fees @ UTSA and @ TSU-SM.
Other than those, where does NT's student fee rank?

$10/hr is a nice chunk of tuition over 120+hours.

Maybe UTSA & TSU-SM are the outliers, and why do we need to follow them?

oldguystudent · May 24, 2016

3 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

I think there have been 2 references to some sky-high student fees @ UTSA and @ TSU-SM.
Other than those, where does NT's student fee rank?

$10/hr is a nice chunk of tuition over 120+hours.

Maybe UTSA & TSU-SM are the outliers, and why do we need to follow them?

It was a pretty loud voice on this board for quite some time until things went so awry that the voice got quiet because no amount of money was going to fix anything. Now there's a new hope (UNT Athletics Episode IV?) and I see the voice awakening. College football is an arms race. We need resources. Just not MY resources.

Try the following google search if you've got the time and see if anything comes up. As much as I hate to admit it, I'm actually working today, and don't have the leisure of sifting through the results.

Quote

site:gomeangreen.com/forums student fee

Aldo · May 24, 2016

12 hours ago, DallasGreen said:

Fear of a competitive student fee shows the only way to go is down, we will soon be UTA II.

Just as an FYI for everyone, and how we stand in the state in terms of fees.

We don't need to hike subsidies if we could just bring in more revenue. Something that the next AD will hopefully make a priority.

University	Fees per student, per semester	Total fees collected by university
TXST	$300 athletics fee	$17,315,569
UTSA	$240 athletics fee	$12,032,206
UNT	$165 athletics fee	$10,724,272
UH	$250 student services fee	$7,260,060
UTEP	$180 student services fee	$5,935,317
TTU	$57.20 athletics fee	$3,237,896
TAMU	$0	$0
UT	$0	$0

Source: NCAA financial reports, university websites
Credit: Annie Daniel

36 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Other than those, where does NT's student fee rank?

MeanGreenTexan · May 24, 2016

2 minutes ago, Aldo said:

Just as an FYI for everyone, and how we stand in the state in terms of fees.

We don't need to hike subsidies if we could just bring in more revenue. Something that the next AD will hopefully make a priority.

University Fees per student, per semester Total fees collected by university
TXST $300 athletics fee $17,315,569
UTSA $240 athletics fee $12,032,206
UNT $165 athletics fee $10,724,272
UH $250 student services fee $7,260,060
UTEP $180 student services fee $5,935,317
TTU $57.20 athletics fee $3,237,896
TAMU $0 $0
UT $0 $0

Source: NCAA financial reports, university websites

Credit: Annie Daniel

TAMU & UT actually SELL ticket packages to their students. No fees need to be enacted across the board, they make plenty of money from students though.

UT: $175
A&M: $290

Aldo · May 24, 2016

Just now, MeanGreenTexan said:

TAMU & UT actually SELL ticket packages to their students. No fees need to be enacted across the board, they make plenty of money from students though.

UT: $175
A&M: $290

ticket packages vs athletics fees

Do ticket packages contribute towards general athletic fund?

P5 programs are obvious outliers as they generate enough revenue through media, ticket sales, paraphernalia, bowls, conferences, etc.

MeanGreenTexan · May 24, 2016

3 minutes ago, Aldo said:

ticket packages vs athletics fees

Do ticket packages contribute towards general athletic fund?

P5 programs are obvious outliers as they generate enough revenue through media, ticket sales, paraphernalia, bowls, conferences, etc.

Good question. I would assume the money gained by selling athletics ticket packages would go to fund those programs.
And yes, I know UT & A&M have no issues funding their ADs. I also know there's a difference between ticket packages (re: demand) and athletics fees, it's just kindof deceiving to see $0 next to those two in your chart above. That would insinuate the AD gets $0 from students.

VideoEagle · May 24, 2016

At the bottom of the Tribune article mentioned above, I saw this link to U of H and THEIR subsidy. Over a 7 year period, we subsidized athletics about $17 million. A&M and Tech were in the $14.7 range. U of H subsidized their athletics $106 million!

DallasGreen · May 30, 2016

And look where U of H is today---better now than at least 1/2 of the Big 12-2!! When they were left out of the P5 they were "a commuter school" now they are among the most sought after expansion candidates in the nation. Our administration AND students have no clue as to what successful athletics can do for the profile of an instituion of higher education. The next AD will suffer from these same constraints. Hopefully he will come from a program that like North Texas had no support and a small time budget because that is all he will ever get here. Students and alumni would get on board if our administration would show even half the committment to athletics that U of H has shown. Endowments would increase expotentionally as well. We choose to be where we are by lack of committment.

TreeFiddy · May 30, 2016

The university is supporting athletics at levels never before believed imaginable. Unfortunately, with the recent changes in the TV contract, the university and students are about to be asked for even more just to keep the status quo.

It is a good thing we still have room to ask the student to kick in and still be less than some of our peers.

UNTFan23 · May 30, 2016

10 minutes ago, TreeFiddy said:

The university is supporting athletics at levels never before believed imaginable. Unfortunately, with the recent changes in the TV contract, the university and students are about to be asked for even more just to keep the status quo.

It is a good thing we still have room to ask the student to kick in and still be less than some of our peers.

Why not ask general fans to chip in a little more as well? Why must the students shoulder much of the shortfall of the new TV contract?

TreeFiddy · May 30, 2016

2 minutes ago, UNTFan23 said:

Why not ask general fans to chip in a little more as well? Why must the students shoulder much of the shortfall of the new TV contract?

Agreed. Ticket prices/MGC membership has room as well. Thankfully we have not maxed these options because it appears we will have to be much more self funded in the future. The size of our alumni base SHOULD give us an advantage over smaller schools.

UNT90 · May 30, 2016

On May 24, 2016 at 10:18 AM, oldguystudent said:

It was a pretty loud voice on this board for quite some time until things went so awry that the voice got quiet because no amount of money was going to fix anything. Now there's a new hope (UNT Athletics Episode IV?) and I see the voice awakening. College football is an arms race. We need resources. Just not MY resources.

Try the following google search if you've got the time and see if anything comes up. As much as I hate to admit it, I'm actually working today, and don't have the leisure of sifting through the results.

My position now is no raise in the student fee until we give them a reason to raise the fee. The Daily article was right on. The students are getting less than bupkis for the fee they pay. The Univesity has historically and recently shown by actions that they are not committed to winning athletic programs. If the university is suspect in this area, why the hell are they upping a fee on students?

Win a conference championship in football or men's basketball before upping the fee again.

As all of you know, I pushed long and hard to raise the fee as quickly as possible. Recent events have caused me to re-evaluate that position.

Hopefully a young, aggressive AD will be able to identify new revenue sources and raise additional funding to cover the TV contract gap. We shall see.