There's infighting at Oklahoma over potential Big 12 expansion

Greenrex · May 9, 2016

Max Weitzenhoffer, the Oklahoma board of regents chairman, told CBS Sports he will try to convince influential OU president David Boren to ditch Big 12 expansion.

http://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/theres-infighting-at-oklahoma-over-potential-big-12-expansion/

foutsrouts · May 9, 2016

20 minutes ago, Greenrex said:

Max Weitzenhoffer, the Oklahoma board of regents chairman, told CBS Sports he will try to convince influential OU president David Boren to ditch Big 12 expansion.

http://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/theres-infighting-at-oklahoma-over-potential-big-12-expansion/

"Weitzenhoffer explained why the Big 12 stands to gain little in expanding to schools most commonly mentioned -- Boise State, BYU, UCF, Cincinnati,Connecticut, Houston, Memphis and South Florida, among others."

With the exception of BYU, it's sad that we've been ahead of or on equal footing with all of those schools throughout most of our history. Especially since some of them didn't even have top level football programs (or any football program) while we did, and we just happen to reside in the heart of Big 12 country. Just to beat UNT90 to the punch, thanks RV.

UNTFan23 · May 9, 2016

3 minutes ago, foutsrouts said:

"Weitzenhoffer explained why the Big 12 stands to gain little in expanding to schools most commonly mentioned -- Boise State, BYU, UCF, Cincinnati,Connecticut, Houston, Memphis and South Florida, among others."

With the exception of BYU, it's sad that we've been ahead of or on equal footing with all of those schools throughout most of our history. Especially since some of them didn't even have top level football programs (or any football program) while we did, and we just happen to reside in the heart of Big 12 country. Just to beat UNT90 to the punch, thanks RV.

The drop down to what is now FCS has done way more damage than what RV has appeared to have done during his tenure.

UNT90 · May 9, 2016

3 minutes ago, foutsrouts said:

Just to beat UNT90 to the punch, thanks RV.

Different coaches, different university presidents, different BOR members, even different chancellors during this time frame.

One Athletic Director - Rick Villarreal.

untjim1995 · May 9, 2016

44 minutes ago, UNTFan23 said:

The drop down to what is now FCS has done way more damage than what RV has appeared to have done during his tenure.

To even be considered as causing enough damage to challenge the carnage that the 1-aa drop in 1983 caused is really saying something...but I agree, RV hasn't caused this...he's merely a symptom to the bigger issue that can't get cured here--apathy and loathing of football.

Harry · May 9, 2016

This is UT's decision. Period.

untjim1995 · May 9, 2016

16 minutes ago, Harry said:

This is UT's decision. Period.

It really is. If gaining no new members causes OU and KU to jump ship, UT can easily go independent, which they may do just to keep the LHN. If UT does go independent, Tech will be just as screwed as Baylor and TCU are. Those three schools will be future members of the MWC or AAC.

UT could easily join another conference and play its other sports there, such as the AAC. Its not scheduling would be hard for the to setup--they can easily set up annual games with OU in Dallas, Baylor, TCU, and Tech, then sprinkle in ongoing series with ND and BYU. Then play three bought G5/FCS games, as well as three other P5 games each year and you will see them having 7-8 home games every year.

foutsrouts · May 9, 2016

11 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

It really is. If gaining no new members causes OU and KU to jump ship, UT can easily go independent, which they may do just to keep the LHN. If UT does go independent, Tech will be just as screwed as Baylor and TCU are. Those three schools will be future members of the MWC or AAC.

UT could easily join another conference and play its other sports there, such as the AAC. Its not scheduling would be hard for the to setup--they can easily set up annual games with OU in Dallas, Baylor, TCU, and Tech, then sprinkle in ongoing series with ND and BYU. Then play three bought G5/FCS games, as well as three other P5 games each year and you will see them having 7-8 home games every year.

Which is why we should beg and pray to get into the MWC. Of course all the praying in the world won't help unless we suddenly start winning.

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF · May 9, 2016

12 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

It really is. If gaining no new members causes OU and KU to jump ship, UT can easily go independent, which they may do just to keep the LHN. If UT does go independent, Tech will be just as screwed as Baylor and TCU are. Those three schools will be future members of the MWC or AAC.

UT could easily join another conference and play its other sports there, such as the AAC. Its not scheduling would be hard for the to setup--they can easily set up annual games with OU in Dallas, Baylor, TCU, and Tech, then sprinkle in ongoing series with ND and BYU. Then play three bought G5/FCS games, as well as three other P5 games each year and you will see them having 7-8 home games every year.

Could be. UT has flirted with the ACC and Pac-12 before. Sticking point back then was the Longhorn Network. LNH has been a money loser, so things may now change.

Always considered KU to be a good fit with the Big Ten due to academics and basketball. Makes as much, if not more, sense as Nebraska being there.

OU is a definite puzzle. After the Pac-12 rejected Texas in 2011, Oklahoma tried to get in on their own and were rejected. They then declined to listen to overtures from the SEC, who then took Missouri instead...which, I always thought was a weird fit.

OU has been rumored everywhere. Would they try to cobble/keep together a conference under the Big 12 banner if Texas leaves?

Whatever happens, Big 12 is definitely the new Big East.

untjim1995 · May 9, 2016

4 minutes ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

Could be. UT has flirted with the ACC and Pac-12 before. Sticking point back then was the Longhorn Network. LNH has been a money loser, so things may now change.

Always considered KU to be a good fit with the Big Ten due to academics and basketball. Makes as much, if not more, sense as Nebraska being there.

OU is a definite puzzle. After the Pac-12 rejected Texas in 2011, Oklahoma tried to get in on their own and were rejected. They then declined to listen to overtures from the SEC, who then took Missouri instead...which, I always thought was a weird fit.

OU has been rumored everywhere. Would they try to cobble/keep together a conference under the Big 12 banner if Texas leaves?

Whatever happens, Big 12 is definitely the new Big East.

I agree on KU--they are appealing to all four conferences because of academic standing within the AAU, good TV market in KC, great basketball, and in an ironic way, just putrid football, which could appeal to leagues that don't want another football behemoth like OU to join in and make their league even harder (see the SEC West). The B1G makes sense, the Pac makes sense, the SEC makes sense, and the ACC makes sense. Not even Texas can say that, due to the LHN and A&M being in the SEC.

I figure that KU ends up in the B1G with OU, in the Pac with some combo of UT, OU, OSU, Tech, and KSU, in the ACC if the Big XII breaks apart and the B1G/SEC take pieces from the current ACC, or if the SEC adds an Eastern team, such as Va Tech, but cannot get a school in North Carolina to break away from the ACC and they add KU to the west to get to 16 and to join UK as a conference with two giants of the sport.

The ironic part of this all was that in 2010, when the Big XII almost dissolved, KU was about to be left out and forced to join the Big East. But after Colorado and Utah joined the Pac and Nebraska joined the B1G, these conferences figured out real quick that TV markets mattered ALOT more. And that any major sports revenue and strong academics would play in realignment's favor for your conference membership going forward. Now, KU will get a spot at the table, ironically, easier than when realignment first started.

The SEC added A&M for the Texas TV sets and Mizzou for the TV sets that St.Louis and KC provide. The B1G adds Maryland and Rutgers, just to get Baltimore, DC, and NYC TV markets. The ACC adds Pitt, Syracuse, and eventually Louisville to get solid teams and markets. Meanwhile, the dumbass Big XII adds West Virginia, who collectively have about 4 TVs in the state, and TCU, a small private school already in their TV market, choosing them over both over BYU, Louisville, Cincinnati, Memphis, Houston, UCF, or USF. No wonder the conference is about to crash and burn...

Harry · May 9, 2016

1 hour ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

Could be. UT has flirted with the ACC and Pac-12 before. Sticking point back then was the Longhorn Network. LNH has been a money loser, so things may now change.

Longhorn network kick-off is tied to a pretty down time for their sports programs. I don't see them getting rid of it. If they start winning again the network will reap the dividends.

laxtonto · May 9, 2016

41 minutes ago, Harry said:

2 hours ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

Longhorn network kick-off is tied to a pretty down time for their sports programs. I don't see them getting rid of it. If they start winning again the network will reap the dividends.

I think people are missing the fact that as bad as UT has been, the LHN almost broke even last year. If they are doing well, it will make $$.

UT doesn't want the LHN for football or even basketball. It is for evey other sport (and for academics) that is the important part. If it is economically viable, or just runs as slight loss, it is well worth it for UT.

UNT90 · May 9, 2016

Kicking Baylor and TCU out of the club is asking for a class action suit. Those 2 won't settle for whoring themselves and their program while competing in the AAC or MWC. And they have money. Piles of it.

Big boys better tread lightly. It's one thing to not be allowed in. It's another to be cut out of the big money pie.

Mike Jackson · May 10, 2016

Does anyone else see an issue with all this re-alignment for football? The more they re-align conference the less I am interested in games without a connection to UNT. It seems like they are so busy trying to carve up the pie into slices they are ignoring that pulverizing the crust and everything else that makes it desirable. The Big 12 pre-realignment was great only slight negative was Baylor getting shoe horned in. I am even less interested in SEC games now and certainly far less interested in SEC East division games. Florida vs Georgia was annual can't miss football game for me. These regional rivalries and border rivalries are what makes the college game so much more intriguing on an emotional level than professional games. The more they try to emulate the professional game when comes to TV revenue the more credibility they are giving to the notion that these players are employees as much as they are students.

LongJim · May 10, 2016

UT will not leave OU. And OU will not leave UT. They are too intertwined.

MeanGreenTeeth · May 10, 2016

3 hours ago, LongJim said:

UT will not leave OU. And OU will not leave UT. They are too intertwined.

TheWestie · May 10, 2016

11 hours ago, untjim1995 said:

It really is. If gaining no new members causes OU and KU to jump ship, UT can easily go independent, which they may do just to keep the LHN. If UT does go independent, Tech will be just as screwed as Baylor and TCU are. Those three schools will be future members of the MWC or AAC.

Texas won't ever go Independent and risk never getting a shot in the playoff. That's the whole point of rumors about a BIG12 expansion, to get to 12 again and have a Championship game and then a spot in the playoff bracket.

MeanGreenTexan · May 10, 2016

12 hours ago, LongJim said:

UT will not leave OU. And OU will not leave UT. They are too intertwined.

You probably could have quoted me as saying the same thing about UT and A&M in 2011.

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF · May 10, 2016

I don't think OU and Texas are intertwined. I think Texas calls the dance on the Big 12. Oklahoma may wish it did. But, in the end, it's been Texas' call on almost all of it.

Texas can have it's pick of conferences, if it decides to move. Oklahoma should, but was turned down by the Pac-12 because they insisted Oklahoma State come with them - for political reasons in-state, of course.

Texas doesn't have the political albatross that Oklahoma does in Oklahoma State.

No matter what happens, the Big 12 is a highly dysfunctional conference.

untjim1995 · May 10, 2016

8 hours ago, TheWestie said:

Texas won't ever go Independent and risk never getting a shot in the playoff. That's the whole point of rumors about a BIG12 expansion, to get to 12 again and have a Championship game and then a spot in the playoff bracket.

Texas will always have consideration for the playoffs, whether in a conference or not. Their name is too big within the college football world to be excluded. Just like Notre dame, they will always have a chance because of their name. The biggest question they will have is keeping the LHN money for as long as possible worth staying out of a better conference setup that you won't have control over...the LHN is an ender for every other power conference as it currently stands. ESPN is on the hook until 2031 for this calamity at $15 million per season. Texas isn't giving that up anytime soon. The only way that they can keep the LHN money train rolling as it stands as the Big XII GOR agreement approaches expiration in the next 10 years or so is to keep the Big XII intact somehow or to go independent until the agreement is not renewed by ESPN and then they go to the Power Conference that will take them without the LHN.

If they join another conference, I'll peg odds as this: Pac--60%, B1G --20%, ACC--20%, SEC--0% The Pac needs them the most, the other two would like to have them for the eyeballs and cachet of the name, while the SEC already has the TV sets of the state for their revenues that A&M has given them. The SEC has made it clear that they will no longer go after multiple teams within a member's state, so no more Ole Miss and MSU type situations again. Teams like Florida State, Clemson, Louisville, and Georgia Tech have no chance of ever gaining SEC membership with the way that revenues are set from their SEC network, getting more for in-state subscribers of their network from the various providers. If/when that changes, then something else could come into play, but for now, the TV sets and new markets will drive that bus. The SEC's next move will be to gain a foothold in NC and VA, most likely. They'd love to add Va Tech and NC State to their leagues, schools that fit their model really well and would culturally fit with the members in that league rather effortlessly, like A&M has so far.

untjim1995 · May 10, 2016

16 hours ago, UNT90 said:

Kicking Baylor and TCU out of the club is asking for a class action suit. Those 2 won't settle for whoring themselves and their program while competing in the AAC or MWC. And they have money. Piles of it.

Big boys better tread lightly. It's one thing to not be allowed in. It's another to be cut out of the big money pie.

Texas avoids any lawsuits and or political baggage by doing one of two things: 1.) They take tech with them to the Pac or 2.) They go independent until the LHN money runs out. The B1G won't take Tech, no matter what. Hence the "Tech " problem email that the B1G commissioner sent to UT's leadership back in 2010. But the Pac will, if it means getting UT. However, if the B1G is what UT wants, they can decide to BYU-it, going independent for a few years, until a slot opens up where they want to go, which would be the B1G.

Tech better hope that those Texas coattails are strong...otherwise, they are gonna enjoy playing conference games in the MWC with Baylor and TCU.

UNTcrazy727 · May 10, 2016

This would all be a non-issue if they just expanded the playoffs to 8 teams...

MeanGreenTexan · May 10, 2016

16 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

Texas avoids any lawsuits and or political baggage by doing one of two things: 1.) They take tech with them to the Pac or 2.) They go independent until the LHN money runs out. The B1G won't take Tech, no matter what. Hence the "Tech " problem email that the B1G commissioner sent to UT's leadership back in 2010. But the Pac will, if it means getting UT. However, if the B1G is what UT wants, they can decide to BYU-it, going independent for a few years, until a slot opens up where they want to go, which would be the B1G.

Tech better hope that those Texas coattails are strong...otherwise, they are gonna enjoy playing conference games in the MWC with Baylor and TCU.

Certainly possible. That's why it would be wise for North Texas to win the race into the MWC. Need to win in the 3 big sports, and probably replace the AD, for that to work.

untjim1995 · May 10, 2016

5 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Certainly possible. That's why it would be wise for North Texas to win the race into the MWC. Need to win in the 3 big sports, and probably replace the AD, for that to work.

I totally agree...and we are clearly in the minority on this. Look at the posters here who want nothing to do with the MWC--they like CUSA, they like being able to travel to games, and they like the time zone. Even if the MWC wanted us, I'm not sure that our leadership or our fans would want it, which sucks mightily. I can sell people on coming to Apogee to watch Boise State, AFA, Fresno State, or Colorado State play us. I can sell people on coming to the Super Pit to see us play UNLV, New Mexico, or San Diego State.

But its a moot point--we aren't even on the MWC's radar for Texas schools.

Harry · May 11, 2016

17 hours ago, TheWestie said:

Texas won't ever go Independent and risk never getting a shot in the playoff. That's the whole point of rumors about a BIG12 expansion, to get to 12 again and have a Championship game and then a spot in the playoff bracket.

I agree with you they probably won't. However, UT is one of the very few programs who could feasibly pull it off. They will always play OU, they could rekindle the A&M series. Heck they open with Notre Dame this season so that could be an ongoing game. They have the budget to buy home opponents and have big enough fan base to be attractive to road opponents. You think Baylor and TCU wouldn't be open to playing UT at home? Those programs benefit immensely attendance wise from playing against UT. Not saying they will do it but they are one of the very few who could.