Top Cusa candidates for AAC 2016 Expansion

UNTFan23 · May 10, 2016

21 minutes ago, Arkstfan said:

I'm sorry you weren't breastfed and have adjustment issues.

Did I say AState was headed to AAC? Nope.

I posted a list of the 10 largest budgets in the region outside of AAC, and 10 largest in self-generated revenue since a drop in enrollment or state funding can hurt a school's capacity to fund itself. Look at WKU dropped three sports and looking to cut more from the athletic department. Because the athletic department isn't successful? No, because Kentucky is cutting state funding and they've experienced a small dip in enrollment.

Sorry that you hind end is on fire about something maybe you have a member size issue you need to deal with, but I think a smart person would scan the two lists and conclude ODU and Army are most likely among the top candidates since they are the only school on both lists that hasn't recently dropped football and said oops and is trying to add it back, rather than going on a crazed rant.

Ever is a long time, people said that about UNT and CUSA of course you didn't really join CUSA either so there's that.

Couple national writers have said BYU insiders say Sunday play is not a problem if they get a P5 invite.

I guess BYU, like UT, will get to get its TV station (and associated revenue)?

Arkstfan · May 10, 2016

15 minutes ago, THOR said:

so for money, they will go against what they have always practiced??? gotta love religion...

Same group that said polygamy was essential outlawed it when it was a condition for Utah being admitted to the Union and later had a relevation that black people could be full member after saying they couldn't. :huh:

Ben Gooding · May 10, 2016

28 minutes ago, Arkstfan said:

I'm sorry you weren't breastfed and have adjustment issues.

Did I say AState was headed to AAC? Nope.

I posted a list of the 10 largest budgets in the region outside of AAC, and 10 largest in self-generated revenue since a drop in enrollment or state funding can hurt a school's capacity to fund itself. Look at WKU dropped three sports and looking to cut more from the athletic department. Because the athletic department isn't successful? No, because Kentucky is cutting state funding and they've experienced a small dip in enrollment.

Sorry that you hind end is on fire about something maybe you have a member size issue you need to deal with, but I think a smart person would scan the two lists and conclude ODU and Army are most likely among the top candidates since they are the only school on both lists that hasn't recently dropped football and said oops and is trying to add it back, rather than going on a crazed rant.

Ever is a long time, people said that about UNT and CUSA of course you didn't really join CUSA either so there's that.

Couple national writers have said BYU insiders say Sunday play is not a problem if they get a P5 invite.

ok

Arkstfan · May 10, 2016

Of course AAC expansion is a moot issue if the rumor du jour of B12 favoring a BYU/Colorado State combo pans out.

Then UTEP is in the MWC conversation and if they go CUSA sits tight until UAB's status fully resolves and if that pans out figure out how to make 6/7 work or add Georgia State.

Of course MWC could also just terminate Hawaii's agreement and be at 10.

Edited May 10, 2016 by Arkstfan

Cerebus · May 10, 2016

20 minutes ago, Arkstfan said:

Of course AAC expansion is a moot issue if the rumor du jour of B12 favoring a BYU/Colorado State combo pans out.

COLORADO STATE?!!

Picture it: ~~Sicily, 1923~~ New Orleans, 2001. North Texas and Colorado State (11 wins between them) face off in the inaugural New Orleans Bowl. We managed to lose, not many other details are recorded... since everyone from North Texas drank a little too much and Colorado St. pretended it never happened.

At the time, both programs were at more or less at the same level. If 15 years one of those programs improved enough to be in the B12 and it isn't us... I don't know how to process this information.

ETA This may help:

Edited May 10, 2016 by Cerebus

Arkstfan · May 10, 2016

14 minutes ago, Cerebus said:

COLORADO STATE?!!

Picture it: ~~Sicily, 1923~~ New Orleans, 2001. North Texas and Colorado State (11 wins between them) face off in the inaugural New Orleans Bowl. We managed to lose, not many other details are recorded... since everyone from North Texas drank a little too much and Colorado St. pretended it never happened.

At the time, both programs were at more or less at the same level. If 15 years one of those programs improved enough to be in the B12 and it isn't us... I don't know how to process this information.

ETA This may help:

Academically on par with K-State and Texas Tech and bridges nicely to BYU for Olympic sports.

untjim1995 · May 10, 2016

15 minutes ago, Cerebus said:

COLORADO STATE?!!

Picture it: ~~Sicily, 1923~~ New Orleans, 2001. North Texas and Colorado State (11 wins between them) face off in the inaugural New Orleans Bowl. We managed to lose, not many other details are recorded... since everyone from North Texas drank a little too much and Colorado St. pretended it never happened.

At the time, both programs were at more or less at the same level. If 15 years one of those programs improved enough to be in the B12 and it isn't us... I don't know how to process this information.

ETA This may help:

Similarly, before the 2005 season got up and running, SI had their complete FBS rankings for the upcoming year. In the mid 50s, you would have found TCU and UNT back-to-back in rankings, somewhere around 55 and 56. We lose to unranked Tulsa at home by only 52 points, while unranked TCU goes into Norman and beats Top 5 ranked OU. We finish 2-9, they finish 12-1, and neither school has ever looked back...TCU has finished in the top 10 several times since then. We have finished in the bottom 10 several times since then, including this past season where we finished as the worst FBS team in America. Two cars passing in the night...one went north to College Football Heaven, one went south (as in College Football Hell).

UNT90 · May 10, 2016

22 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

Similarly, before the 2005 season got up and running, SI had their complete FBS rankings for the upcoming year. In the mid 50s, you would have found TCU and UNT back-to-back in rankings, somewhere around 55 and 56. We lose to unranked Tulsa at home by only 52 points, while unranked TCU goes into Norman and beats Top 5 ranked OU. We finish 2-9, they finish 12-1, and neither school has ever looked back...TCU has finished in the top 10 several times since then. We have finished in the bottom 10 several times since then, including this past season where we finished as the worst FBS team in America. Two cars passing in the night...one went north to College Football Heaven, one went south (as in College Football Hell).

In 11 years with the same Athletic Director at UNT.

Not a coincidence.

Arkstfan · May 10, 2016

9 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

In 11 years with the same Athletic Director at UNT.

Not a coincidence.

I've been through ups and downs at AState and frankly any success a G5 (or an FCS for that matter) has is dumb luck (geography, things fall together, whatever) unless the board of trustees, the chief executive of the university system, chief executive of the campus, and the athletic director are all on the same page and that page happens to be a pro-athletics page.

We fired the AD who hired Hugh Freeze and Gus Malzahn because he didn't think big enough for the Board, system president, and campus chancellor. Most places two hires like that is lifetime contract.

You have to have 100% or you have to hope for dumb luck.

wardly · May 10, 2016

Texas wants the Longhorn Network. ESPN is locked into contract that probably would cost more to buy out rather than pay out as they are losing money on the deal.Screw the BIG 12 and the need for a conference t.v. agreement.Texas wants a round robin so there is little need to speculate on who will be joining. If I have learned anything following SWC and Big 12 schools over the years is that Texas gets what Texas wants.

Mean Green 93-98 · May 10, 2016

1 hour ago, Cerebus said:

COLORADO STATE?!!

Picture it: ~~Sicily, 1923~~ New Orleans, 2001. North Texas and Colorado State (11 wins between them) face off in the inaugural New Orleans Bowl. We managed to lose, not many other details are recorded... since everyone from North Texas drank a little too much and Colorado St. pretended it never happened.

At the time, both programs were at more or less at the same level....

I don't think many people perceived the two programs to be at the same level. Colorado State came out of a clearly superior conference, and had been one of its better teams in those years. North Texas had been a perennial loser, and was continuing that trend the year they met CSU in the N.O. Bowl. Most people though North Texas had no business being in a bowl game, having only won 5 games that year. And North Texas laid one in that game that proved everyone's perceptions correct.

UNT90 · May 10, 2016

18 minutes ago, Arkstfan said:

I've been through ups and downs at AState and frankly any success a G5 (or an FCS for that matter) has is dumb luck (geography, things fall together, whatever) unless the board of trustees, the chief executive of the university system, chief executive of the campus, and the athletic director are all on the same page and that page happens to be a pro-athletics page.

We fired the AD who hired Hugh Freeze and Gus Malzahn because he didn't think big enough for the Board, system president, and campus chancellor. Most places two hires like that is lifetime contract.

You have to have 100% or you have to hope for dumb luck.

The problem at UNT is the only thing any of those entities care about is staying in budget. They don't care about anything else. Throw on top of that an AD that cares more about blame placing and self protection than successful athletic programs and you have the perfect storm that is the decade long suck of UNT athletics.

foutsrouts · May 10, 2016

3 minutes ago, Mean Green 93-98 said:

I don't think many people perceived the two programs to be at the same level. Colorado State came out of a clearly superior conference, and had been one of its better teams in those years. North Texas had been a perennial loser, and was continuing that trend the year they met CSU in the N.O. Bowl. Most people though North Texas had no business being in a bowl game, having only won 5 games that year. And North Texas laid one in that game that proved everyone's perceptions correct.

We had a pretty nice offense, and we were at least competitive against them, but they were clearly superior in the trenches. Same thing against Hattiesburg.

Cerebus · May 10, 2016

32 minutes ago, Mean Green 93-98 said:

I don't think many people perceived the two programs to be at the same level.

Both programs had ended up in the exact same bowl game. Where each program went from that point was up to each of them.

Mean Green 93-98 · May 10, 2016

58 minutes ago, foutsrouts said:

...we were at least competitive against them...

I guess "competitive" is a subjective term, but I personally don't consider losing 20-45 as being remotely competitive.

37 minutes ago, Cerebus said:

Both programs had ended up in the exact same bowl game. Where each program went from that point was up to each of them.

I seem to recall Hawaii meeting Georgia in the exact same bowl game, but I never considered the two programs as being at the same level.

untcampbell · May 10, 2016

It is ironic that discussion of conference expansion often starts with TV market potential, but most of the higher revenue programs in the second list are from more isolated "only game in town" markets or decent market size areas without pro football.

GMG

foutsrouts · May 10, 2016

21 minutes ago, Mean Green 93-98 said:

I guess "competitive" is a subjective term, but I personally don't consider losing 20-45 as being remotely competitive.

Being behind 24-14 in the third quarter before they blocked the punt for a TD is being competitive IMO. At least at North Texas.

DT 90 · May 11, 2016

19 hours ago, Arkstfan said:

Couple national writers have said BYU insiders say Sunday play is not a problem if they get a P5 invite.

Yea sure. You are not a head coach of any team at BYU without being LDS. National writers don't live in the bubble that is Provo. They have more money than Moroni. I don't see it happening.

Arkstfan · May 11, 2016

18 minutes ago, DT 90 said:

Yea sure. You are not a head coach of any team at BYU without being LDS. National writers don't live in the bubble that is Provo. They have more money than Moroni. I don't see it happening.

They also see BYU as their outreach arm and a relevant BYU helps that.

I ain't Mormon and don't have a clue what they will do but they have received expedient revelations in the past.

Cerebus · May 11, 2016

17 hours ago, Mean Green 93-98 said:

I seem to recall Hawaii meeting Georgia in the exact same bowl game, but I never considered the two programs as being at the same level.

Fine: we were both G5 teams in the same bowl game with no real sustained history of football success, our all time winning % was within a few points of each other at the time.

Now 15 years later one of them is being talked about as a potential B12 member, and the other is trying to forget about this.

NTXCoog · May 11, 2016

21 hours ago, Arkstfan said:

Of course AAC expansion is a moot issue if the rumor du jour of B12 favoring a BYU/Colorado State combo pans out.

I don't buy this one at all. It still leaves WVU on an island by itself, and the WVU president is one of the three presidents on the Big 12 expansion committee.

DT 90 · May 11, 2016

They will go a school(s) east of the Mississippi for sure.

Arkstfan · May 11, 2016

2 hours ago, NTXCoog said:

I don't buy this one at all. It still leaves WVU on an island by itself, and the WVU president is one of the three presidents on the Big 12 expansion committee.

Remember having a travel partner really doesn't do much for WVU. Not like travel partners rent an RV and ride the country together. The impact is on visitors. Fly to Morgantown then turn around and go home. A travel partner is just someone else to play while you are out. For WVU they can fly to Austin in basketball and then play in Waco on the same trip. Nice and neat. They can play OU and OKST on the same trip, the two are basically an hour apart. Makes life easy for WVU. No travel partner for WVU makes life crap for everyone else.

So (I am getting to a point) if you look at all the G5 there are only two who look much like a P5 in drawing crowds, BYU and ECU with a big advantage to BYU. If you are looking for a conference TV network, BYU is getting 100% coverage in Utah, ECU is still going to be behind UNC and NCState in priority of fans state-wide.

If you look at self-generated revenue. BYU's numbers aren't public but we know their TV deal with ESPN produces more revenue than any G5 school, roughly double what any of the G5 receives from their conference. They sell 60k plus tickets. We can assume they blow the top off in self-generated revenue. Among the rest of the G5 UConn, Boise, New Mexico, ECU, Cincy, and Army are the only ones to hit $30 million or be in close striking distance.

BYU TV ratings are top-notch.

BYU is the most P5-like school out there that isn't P5. You can add them with no fear of them hurting the bottom line.

The question is do the B12 presidents accept them on academic and social issues grounds? If yes, then there is the Sunday play issue and that is a zero factor in football, not much of an issue for most sports except baseball and the cop-out way to address it is BYU won't play Sundays AT HOME. Financially in their best interest anyway. Freaking IHOP in Salt Lake closed at 9pm on Sunday when we were out there and was among the few restaurants even open. If they have to play Sunday in Austin so be it.

Which brings me to the point.

BYU is the most logical addition, if you add BYU you now have TWO outliers.

In academic rankings the other candidates fall out like this: UConn, Colorado State, Cincinnati, USF, UCF, Houston, Memphis

UConn outlies WVU by another 500 miles. While Colorado State isn't much closer to BYU than UConn is to WVU, Colorado State backfills to the rest of the Big XII.

Cincinnati is the only real option to perform that role with WVU. The president at WVU is heading up expansion and Dr. Gee is very much a wrapped up in athletics guy by all appearances, he may rather not have another P5 created in the region to compete against and let Colorado State's elevation to P5 status be a problem for BYU and P12 member Colorado to deal with.

foutsrouts · May 11, 2016

15 minutes ago, Arkstfan said:

Remember having a travel partner really doesn't do much for WVU. Not like travel partners rent an RV and ride the country together.

You could get banned from the board for a thought like that. RV costs too much to rent anyway.

UNT90 · May 11, 2016

1 minute ago, foutsrouts said:

You could get banned from the board for a thought like that. RV costs too much to rent anyway.

Will he whore himself like he does UNT athletes? That is the question.

Heard a report that Memphis and Houston are making a hard sell to the Big 12. Apparently Fed Ex or UPS (whichever is located in Memphis) has agreed to become a MAJOR sponsor of the Big 12 if and only if Memphis gets in.

Don't worry, folks, I'm sure RV has Metzlers and Anderson Floors putting similar pressure of the Big 12 on UNT's behalf.