Top Cusa candidates for AAC 2016 Expansion

Army of Dad · May 9, 2016

1 hour ago, HoustonEagle said:

Can you really blame them? What has their really been to be proud of in the last ten years? 100 years? Hell, if anything the HOD bowl showed just how much our alumni would love to be relevant even if that means a bowl game against another perennial loser that was also showing some signs of life. The thing is we don't just lose at North Texas we lose big. On the score board, on the stat sheets, and in the win-loss column we lose big. I am amazed we have fans at all. I would love to see what 5-10 years of above average sports would do to bring in the fans. Crazy that seems like a pipe dream.

We saw what steady winning could do here. JJ's last season we have something like 7k in the Super Pit for a conference game...

52 minutes ago, Harry said:

TP's in response to possible Big 12 expansion:

C-USA was a big step up in competition. It will naturally take time for us to adjust to that.

We are not interested in AAC as we believe C-USA to have more upside.

On a side note, is it just me or did we go from a fairly well known and often quoted CUSA commish to a very quiet, rarely heard of one?

Is it really that big of a step up? How many of the teams are former Sun Belt foes?

kj86 · May 9, 2016

2 hours ago, HoustonEagle said:

Can you really blame them? What has their really been to be proud of in the last ten years? 100 years? Hell, if anything the HOD bowl showed just how much our alumni would love to be relevant even if that means a bowl game against another perennial loser that was also showing some signs of life. The thing is we don't just lose at North Texas we lose big. On the score board, on the stat sheets, and in the win-loss column we lose big. I am amazed we have fans at all. I would love to see what 5-10 years of above average sports would do to bring in the fans. Crazy that seems like a pipe dream.

This.

Our alumni and students and Denton County are not the problem. Losing is the problem. If ever the administration decides to not tolerate bad coaching hires, a poorly run athletics department and losing, there will be plenty of butts in seats.

VideoEagle · May 9, 2016

First of all, the expansion of the Big XII isn't certain. To expand in a way that makes scheduling sense, they need 2. But only BYU can pull it's own weight - all the other "candidates" dilute the money an strength of schedules more than they add. It's the same bad choice that AAC has when they look at expanding by taking a CUSA team - who is worth it at least right now.

Frankly in the last round of expansion, most conferences end up weaker than they were before. AAC, which had been the Big East, is not nearly as strong and is more in line with a slight step of from what was CUSA. CUSA became the top teams from the Sun Belt and significantly lower than the old CUSA was.

The MWC did not lose in strength, but they have issues. The get BSU and SDSU back from the Big East/AAC, they promised to end equal revenue sharing and not give much larger shares of their Conference revenue to BSU and then to SDSU. That made some sense when BSU was getting into a BCS bowl more often than not, but that gravy train had ended. It's a great deal for BSU but the others aren't going to let that continue forever as the lower revenues hurt all the other schools.

I can see an argument for more "upside" to CUSA for UNT than AAC has. Over the long term, G5s are going to need to become more regional with more teams with fans that work together and games that are more drivable. Right now for NT, that's CUSA. Yes, there are some more media dollars in the AAC, but not so many that IF we were getting better attendance and more MG club dollars we could equal those. At least, that's the argument. I'm not sure I completely believe it, but I don't completely think it's wrong.

UNTexas · May 9, 2016

5 hours ago, foutsrouts said:

Yes, we have fans, but sadly 90% of them are bandwagon fans. We saw that in the HOD Bowl. It's all up to Littrell & Co. at this point.

Bandwagon is fine. The problem is our sports have been a joke for so long that most of our alumni just laugh off our sports teams. Alumni want our teams to win. People were really excited when the basketball team went to the tournament and when we played won the HOD Bowl. Then UNT proceeded to utterly embarrass itself. Last year even hard core fans started giving up. So I'll take Bandwagon fans over nothing at this point. If they join the bandwagon then something is going right.

Edited May 9, 2016 by UNTexas

Side Show Joe · May 10, 2016

We all know the reasons why North Texas isn't on anyone's expansion radar (despite our location, resources, and facilities, we have a decade of losing in the major sports). We can debate who is to blame for it, but that will just get start a big thread derailing argument. So lets not go there.

The real question is what needs to be done to change the narrative?

Here's the 5 steps I think need to happen:

1st New leadership- No comment.

2nd A real marketing campaign- In-house marketing just isn't working. We need to hire a real marketing firm and spend a respectable amount of money on it. This should be a "No-Brainer". With a real marketing business in charge, we should be able to generate more money then we spend.

3rd Be better then SMU- SMU is the closest university we compete with for fans and attention. A decade ago, SMU got tired of being a doormat, and hired June Jones for what is still considered major conference money (around $2M a season). Yes, we retired Jones back in 2014, by stomping the Mustangs at Apogee, but he did resurrect their dead program, by taking them to 4 bowls. Now they have shelled out big money to bring in Chad Morris. It is still too early to tell how he will do, but one thing is certain, SMU will get rid of him and shell out another big contract if they have to. SMU paid big money to Larry Brown too. SMU has transformed their basketball program into a national player. Yes Brown has them in a little trouble, but not "Death Penalty" trouble, and they are winning.

For North Texas to challenge SMU within the scope of college athletics, we need to step up and pay a wage that will lure prominent coaches and staffs. UNT has the fifth highest athletic budget in C-USA. What are we wasting that money on? LA Tech embarrasses us in almost every sport and we are spending $9,000,000 more per season. We need to tighten the belt in some areas, and divert those funds so we can increase coaching salaries when we go hiring for our major sports. If we set our funding at $1,500,000 for our next men's basketball coach, we would attract higher quality applicants. I'm tired of watching UNT try and cheap our way into developing our programs. We're no good at it. Around 36 of the NCAA tournament teams paid their coaches less then $1.5 M a season. Including Texas A&M, Gonzaga, Xavier, Temple, Colorado, VCU, Oregon State, and Wisconsin. I not saying we could steal a coach away from any of those programs, but paying $1.5M a season would certainly attract the same coaching talent they get. Even after deducting $1,500,000 million a season for a nationally prominent basketball coach, our athletic budget would still be over $7.5 million more then LA Tech. The same strategy could apply to football too.

Con Rank National Rank
1). 63 Old Dominion C-USA $43,994,715 $42,780,118 $28,419,259 64.60
2). 77 Charlotte C-USA $33,124,557 $28,573,920 $22,632,085 68.32
3). 81 Alabama at Birmingham C-USA $31,896,726 $31,066,375 $19,607,780 61.47
4). 83Middle Tennessee C-USA $31,671,166 $31,671,166 $19,459,839 61.44
5). 85 North Texas C-USA $31,312,298 $31,268,741 $20,079,077 64.13- Football 1-11, M. Basketball 12-20, W. Basketball 11-19
6). 86Florida Atlantic C-USA $30,919,633 $29,794,361 $19,023,004 61.52
7). 88 Western Kentucky C-USA $30,212,548 $30,212,548 $19,493,007 64.52
8). 89 Texas-El Paso C-USA $29,836,835 $29,395,257 $15,949,810 53.46
9). 95Florida International C-USA $28,613,452 $30,483,759 $23,620,086 82.55
10). 101 Marshall C-USA $27,069,138 $27,397,209 $12,218,077 45.14
11). 105 Texas-San Antonio C-USA $26,807,547 $26,177,864 $13,793,982 51.46
12). 118 Southern Mississippi C-USA $23,972,589 $24,546,909 $8,787,048 36.65
13). 124 Louisiana Tech C-USA $22,209,912 $21,849,418 $9,683,929 43.60- Football 9-4, M. Basketball 23-10, W. Basketball 14-16
* Rice not list

4th Stop scheduling like a $2 whore- I'm tired of watching our leadership bend us over for every P5 team with some loose change. Don't get me wrong, I want us playing P5 teams, but we need return games. We aren't even getting a reach around in these deals being signed. Wake up. If we don't respect our program, no one else will.

5th Expansion plans- I know we can't even draw flies right now, but we have to project that we are ready to take the next positive step. Not sure what architectural drawings cost, but it's still cheaper then actually building something.

Edited May 10, 2016 by Side Show Joe

DeepGreen · May 10, 2016

7 hours ago, Ben Gooding said:

I think that's just what people say who have smaller stadiums.

No, this came from the head "muckity muck" of OU.

Here you go......read through the original story.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-saturday/report--oklahoma-s-board-of-regents-objects-to-big-12-expansion-172612122.html

Edited May 10, 2016 by DeepGreen

Ben Gooding · May 10, 2016

52 minutes ago, Side Show Joe said:

We all know the reasons why North Texas isn't on anyone's expansion radar (despite our location, resources, and facilities, we have a decade of losing in the major sports). We can debate who is to blame for it, but that will just get start a big thread derailing argument. So lets not go there.

The real question is what needs to be done to change the narrative?

Here's the 5 steps I think need to happen:

1st New leadership- No comment.

2nd A real marketing campaign- In-house marketing just isn't working. We need to hire a real marketing firm and spend a respectable amount of money on it. This should be a "No-Brainer". With a real marketing business in charge, we should be able to generate more money then we spend.

3rd Be better then SMU- SMU is the closest university we compete with for fans and attention. A decade ago, SMU got tired of being a doormat, and hired June Jones for what is still considered major conference money (around $2M a season). Yes, we retired Jones back in 2014, by stomping the Mustangs at Apogee, but he did resurrect their dead program, by taking them to 4 bowls. Now they have shelled out big money to bring in Chad Morris. It is still too early to tell how he will do, but one thing is certain, SMU will get rid of him and shell out another big contract if they have to. SMU paid big money to Larry Brown too. SMU has transformed their basketball program into a national player. Yes Brown has them in a little trouble, but not "Death Penalty" trouble, and they are winning.

For North Texas to challenge SMU within the scope of college athletics, we need to step up and pay a wage that will lure prominent coaches and staffs. UNT has the fifth highest athletic budget in C-USA. What are we wasting that money on? LA Tech embarrasses us in almost every sport and we are spending $9,000,000 more per season. We need to tighten the belt in some areas, and divert those funds so we can increase coaching salaries when we go hiring for our major sports. If we set our funding at $1,500,000 for our next men's basketball coach, we would attract higher quality applicants. I'm tired of watching UNT try and cheap our way into developing our programs. We're no good at it. Around 36 of the NCAA tournament teams paid their coaches less then $1.5 M a season. Including Texas A&M, Gonzaga, Xavier, Temple, Colorado, VCU, Oregon State, and Wisconsin. I not saying we could steal a coach away from any of those programs, but paying $1.5M a season would certainly attract the same coaching talent they get. Even after deducting $1,500,000 million a season for a nationally prominent basketball coach, our athletic budget would still be over $7.5 million more then LA Tech. The same strategy could apply to football too.

Con Rank National Rank
1). 63 Old Dominion C-USA $43,994,715 $42,780,118 $28,419,259 64.60
2). 77 Charlotte C-USA $33,124,557 $28,573,920 $22,632,085 68.32
3). 81 Alabama at Birmingham C-USA $31,896,726 $31,066,375 $19,607,780 61.47
4). 83Middle Tennessee C-USA $31,671,166 $31,671,166 $19,459,839 61.44
5). 85 North Texas C-USA $31,312,298 $31,268,741 $20,079,077 64.13- Football 1-11, M. Basketball 12-20, W. Basketball 11-19
6). 86Florida Atlantic C-USA $30,919,633 $29,794,361 $19,023,004 61.52
7). 88 Western Kentucky C-USA $30,212,548 $30,212,548 $19,493,007 64.52
8). 89 Texas-El Paso C-USA $29,836,835 $29,395,257 $15,949,810 53.46
9). 95Florida International C-USA $28,613,452 $30,483,759 $23,620,086 82.55
10). 101 Marshall C-USA $27,069,138 $27,397,209 $12,218,077 45.14
11). 105 Texas-San Antonio C-USA $26,807,547 $26,177,864 $13,793,982 51.46
12). 118 Southern Mississippi C-USA $23,972,589 $24,546,909 $8,787,048 36.65
13). 124 Louisiana Tech C-USA $22,209,912 $21,849,418 $9,683,929 43.60- Football 9-4, M. Basketball 23-10, W. Basketball 14-16
* Rice not list

4th Stop scheduling like a $2 whore- I'm tired of watching our leadership bend us over for every P5 team with some loose change. Don't get me wrong, I want us playing P5 teams, but we need return games. We aren't even getting a reach around in these deals being signed. Wake up. If we don't respect our program, no one else will.

5th Expansion plans- I know we can't even draw flies right now, but we have to project that we are ready to take the next positive step. Not sure what architectural drawings cost, but it's still cheaper then actually building something.

I can appreciate the time on this post and not to derail a thread, but couldn't number 1 on this list solve 2-5? Food for thought.

UNT90 · May 10, 2016

21 hours ago, Cerebus said:

The most disappointing part of this expansion talk is that I have read five or six articles and NOT ONE has mentioned North Texas as a serious candidate. Given our location, budget, and alumni base we should be the a top target.

The awful hires have doomed us.

One awful AD has doomed us. Don't think officials from the AAC don't know exactly what the Hattiesburg Hustler is. They do. Everyone in college football does, with the apparent exception of some major donors to UNT athletics. No self respecting conference will allow UNT membership at this point. All the excuses are used up.

And before anyone throws out us going to CUSA as some kind of proof that the AAC or MWC would have interest, consider that CUSA has basically sunk to the level of the Sun Belt, allowing conference membership to FCS's making the leap and even to start up football programs (Charlotte). They needed UNT. The AAC and the Mountain West don't.

Edited May 10, 2016 by UNT90

Tyler Maryak · May 10, 2016

2 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

One awful AD has doomed us. Don't think officials from the AAC don't know exactly what the Hattiesburg Hustler is. They do. Everyone in college football does, with the apparent exception of some major donors to UNT athletics. No self respecting conference will allow UNT membership at this point. All the excuses are used up.

And before anyone throws out us going to CUSA as some kind of proof that the AAC or MWC would have interest, consider that CUSA has basically sunk to the level of the Sun Belt, allowing conference membership to FCS's making the leap and even to start up football programs (Charlotte). They needed UNT. The AAC and the Mountain West don't.

I love your knack for nicknames. Especially your use of alliteration. Can we hang out sometime so you can come up with a nickname for me? I need something new for my alter ego.

Wag Tag · May 10, 2016

18 hours ago, untjim1995 said:

OSU's only hope is that the Pac takes the Texoma Four. OU already got sent packing when they went to the Pac with OSU and said they were interested in joining their league, only to hear the Pac Leadership that they were interested in OU with UT, not without them and certainly not with OSU as the add-on.

T. Boone's cash can only carry itself so far...OSU, KSU, ISU, and Tech have the same problem--big brother(s) that make them worthless unless big brother's coattails can get them into the party. Right now, the Pac is the only place that looks like they would take Tech and/or OSU if it go them UT and OU. The only other possible way I could see OSU going out west is if UT goes independent, the Pac still wants to expand to the CST to get to 16 and they invited some combo of KU, KSU, OU, OSU, Tech and UH, but even that seems incredibly remote as a possibility.

Don't think OK politics will let OU move without OSU.

MGNation92 · May 10, 2016

7 minutes ago, Tyler Maryak said:

I love your knack for nicknames. Especially your use of alliteration. Can we hang out sometime so you can come up with a nickname for me? I need something new for my alter ego.

The Maryak Marauder

Mad Dog Maryak

Maulin' Maryak

I've decided your new alter ego has to be a wrestler. Perfect opportunity for alliteration names

UNT90 · May 10, 2016

11 minutes ago, MGNation92 said:

The Maryak Marauder

Mad Dog Maryak

Maulin' Maryak

I've decided your new alter ego has to be a wrestler. Perfect opportunity for alliteration names

Don't forget the first name. Following along the wrestling theme.

Tyler the Terrible

Tomcat Tyler

Tyler the Tense

Tackless Tyler

Tyler the Tornado

Toxic Tyler (my favorite)

Wag Tag · May 10, 2016

12 hours ago, Ben Gooding said:

I can appreciate the time on this post and not to derail a thread, but couldn't number 1 on this list solve 2-5? Food for thought.

Agree. I am pretty sure we would all be content to be a stepping stone school for bigger programs. This would mean we are having success. Salaries are fine budget is ok and playing a money game we probably have to do like most smaller programs. Cant say no to $1.3.....We need new and younger leadership. Solved

Arkstfan · May 10, 2016

Supposedly the AAC commissioner has said that if they lose one, they will replace, if they lose two, they will be inclined to sit at 10.

Remember the CFP formula changed. It's $1 million per school up to 10 instead of 12 as first reported. The extra revenue went into the performance pool.

Looking at the public schools in the eastern and central time zone based on total athletic budget who are G5 but not in the AAC. In millions.

1. Old Dominion $43.9

2. Army $41.2

3. UMass $36.5

4. Western Michigan $34.7

5. TXST $34.5

6. Eastern Michigan $33.9

7. Charlotte $33.1

8. Miami (OH) $33.1

9. Buffalo $32.1

10. UAB $31. 8

Now the public's by athletic revenue generated by the department (excluding government, university, and student fees)

1. Army $28.9

2. ODU $15.5

3. UL Lafayette $15.2

4. USM $15.2

5. AState $15.2

6. Marshall $14.9

7. UTSA $13

8. La.Tech $12.5

9. UAB $12.3

10. MTSU $12.2

UNT90 · May 10, 2016

21 minutes ago, Arkstfan said:

Supposedly the AAC commissioner has said that if they lose one, they will replace, if they lose two, they will be inclined to sit at 10.

Remember the CFP formula changed. It's $1 million per school up to 10 instead of 12 as first reported. The extra revenue went into the performance pool.

Looking at the public schools in the eastern and central time zone based on total athletic budget who are G5 but not in the AAC. In millions.

1. Old Dominion $43.9

2. Army $41.2

3. UMass $36.5

4. Western Michigan $34.7

5. TXST $34.5

6. Eastern Michigan $33.9

7. Charlotte $33.1

8. Miami (OH) $33.1

9. Buffalo $32.1

10. UAB $31. 8

Now the public's by athletic revenue generated by the department (excluding government, university, and student fees)

1. Army $28.9

2. ODU $15.5

3. UL Lafayette $15.2

4. USM $15.2

5. AState $15.2

6. Marshall $14.9

7. UTSA $13

8. La.Tech $12.5

9. UAB $12.3

10. MTSU $12.2

Why did you leave out UNT? Just curious.

Arkstfan · May 10, 2016

On the first list UNT would have been 13th at $31.3 million with Akron and MTSU at 11th and 12th respectively.

On the second list UNT would also be 13th at $11.2 behind #11 FAU and #12 Toledo.

untjim1995 · May 10, 2016

1 hour ago, Wag Tag said:

Don't think OK politics will let OU move without OSU.

They will if it means that OU can continue to be a huge giant of the sport. Same with KU and UT. None of those schools are going to get held back because their in-state brethren aren't as attractive as they are to these other conferences.

UNT90 · May 10, 2016

30 minutes ago, Arkstfan said:

On the first list UNT would have been 13th at $31.3 million with Akron and MTSU at 11th and 12th respectively.

On the second list UNT would also be 13th at $11.2 behind #11 FAU and #12 Toledo.

Ah, thanks.

Ben Gooding · May 10, 2016

1 hour ago, Arkstfan said:

Supposedly the AAC commissioner has said that if they lose one, they will replace, if they lose two, they will be inclined to sit at 10.

Remember the CFP formula changed. It's $1 million per school up to 10 instead of 12 as first reported. The extra revenue went into the performance pool.

Looking at the public schools in the eastern and central time zone based on total athletic budget who are G5 but not in the AAC. In millions.

1. Old Dominion $43.9

2. Army $41.2

3. UMass $36.5

4. Western Michigan $34.7

5. TXST $34.5

6. Eastern Michigan $33.9

7. Charlotte $33.1

8. Miami (OH) $33.1

9. Buffalo $32.1

10. UAB $31. 8

Now the public's by athletic revenue generated by the department (excluding government, university, and student fees)

1. Army $28.9

2. ODU $15.5

3. UL Lafayette $15.2

4. USM $15.2

5. AState $15.2

6. Marshall $14.9

7. UTSA $13

8. La.Tech $12.5

9. UAB $12.3

10. MTSU $12.2

Congrats? Your budget sucks up in Jonesboro but you somehow make it up in revenue? Who cares? The AAC will never go pick up Arkansas State. Ever.

DT 90 · May 10, 2016

BYU is a no-go. They don't play on Sundays. Big 12-2 wont just take them for football but for all sports. All other sports play on Sundays in the Big12-2.

UNT90 · May 10, 2016

2 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

Congrats? Your budget sucks up in Jonesboro but you somehow make it up in revenue? Who cares? The AAC will never go pick up Arkansas State. Ever.

Like it or not, young Ben, Arkansas St is far far far more likely to get an invite to the AAC than UNT, especially now that TV markets have become somewhat less material to the discussion.

Arkansas St does EVERYTHING better than UNT where athletics are concerned. Not surprising since UNT doesn't care about athletics.

untjim1995 · May 10, 2016

16 minutes ago, DT 90 said:

BYU is a no-go. They don't play on Sundays. Big 12-2 wont just take them for football but for all sports. All other sports play on Sundays in the Big12-2.

That's not hard to fix--at all. If the Big XII wants BYU, that won't be a problem.

14 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

Like it or not, young Ben, Arkansas St is far far far more likely to get an invite to the AAC than UNT, especially now that TV markets have become somewhat less material to the discussion.

Arkansas St does EVERYTHING better than UNT where athletics are concerned. Not surprising since UNT doesn't care about athletics.

Neither us, nor Arkansas State will ever get into the AAC...but they do run a solid athletic department up in Jonesboro.

Ben Gooding · May 10, 2016

42 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

Like it or not, young Ben, Arkansas St is far far far more likely to get an invite to the AAC than UNT, especially now that TV markets have become somewhat less material to the discussion.

Arkansas St does EVERYTHING better than UNT where athletics are concerned. Not surprising since UNT doesn't care about athletics.

Sure. I guess. But A-State will never go to the AAC. If for some mistaken reason smut gets an invite elsewhere...You better believe that UNT will be the AAC's option to fill that void and not Arkansas State. Where there is a scenario for UNT to get an invite to that conference, there isn't one for Arkansas State.

Arkstfan · May 10, 2016

2 hours ago, Ben Gooding said:

Congrats? Your budget sucks up in Jonesboro but you somehow make it up in revenue? Who cares? The AAC will never go pick up Arkansas State. Ever.

I'm sorry you weren't breastfed and have adjustment issues.

Did I say AState was headed to AAC? Nope.

I posted a list of the 10 largest budgets in the region outside of AAC, and 10 largest in self-generated revenue since a drop in enrollment or state funding can hurt a school's capacity to fund itself. Look at WKU dropped three sports and looking to cut more from the athletic department. Because the athletic department isn't successful? No, because Kentucky is cutting state funding and they've experienced a small dip in enrollment.

Sorry that you hind end is on fire about something maybe you have a member size issue you need to deal with, but I think a smart person would scan the two lists and conclude ODU and Army are most likely among the top candidates since they are the only school on both lists that hasn't recently dropped football and said oops and is trying to add it back, rather than going on a crazed rant.

Ever is a long time, people said that about UNT and CUSA of course you didn't really join CUSA either so there's that.

2 hours ago, DT 90 said:

BYU is a no-go. They don't play on Sundays. Big 12-2 wont just take them for football but for all sports. All other sports play on Sundays in the Big12-2.

Couple national writers have said BYU insiders say Sunday play is not a problem if they get a P5 invite.

Edited May 10, 2016 by Arkstfan