Rebuilding trust within the North Texas fanbase

UNT90 · May 1, 2016

19 minutes ago, FirefightnRick said:

Hem hawing around the truth is just kidding yourself. I think posting the truth straight up would buy this site many more loyal customers than skirting around the truth.

But, I'd be naive if I thought there weren't people out there that enjoy being misled...so what do I know?

Rick

There is definitely a segment that is not only in denial, but wants to be in denial. Harry is providing a product for all thoughts, not just yours and mine. Some haven't been around long enough to realize the disfunction of UNT athletics and want some positivity. I get that.

Harry plays moderator, and does it quite well. That's what makes that post so important.

I have never been asked once to tone it down. I have only been warned once, and I knew when a typed that post a warning was most likely coming. My hand was slapped, and rightfully so.

Don't think Harry and the other mods haven't received constant complaints from the usual suspects who complain about others opinions, and not any violations of board rules. We all know who they are by their constant butthurtedness.

Having to deal with those winey B's is a thankless job, and one that Harry and other mods perform really well.

A post that... Hopeless? from Harry is a shot across the bow that none of your or my posts, letters, calls could ever accomplish. He can't be categorized as one of the "minute few," and RV and NS know it.

Edited May 1, 2016 by UNT90

FirefightnRick · May 1, 2016

If images such as this below isn't a big enough shot across the bow to raise the right eyebrows..(even Eugene Levy Scrappy's big ass eyebrows)...then nothing on a fan website ever will.

Rick

UNT90 · May 1, 2016

3 hours ago, FirefightnRick said:

If images such as this below isn't a big enough shot across the bow to raise the right eyebrows..(even Eugene Levy Scrappy's big ass eyebrows)...then nothing on a fan website ever will.

Rick

It's not. RV sold it as Mac's fault and an abberition. Any statement like that from someone like Harry means something. And the Hattiesburg Hustler knows it.

If UNT loses to SMU by 20, this will be attendance for Butt Cookman and beyond. What I warned @flyonthewall about before last season will continue to come true. Fly won't have to worry about us pesky low level fans anymore because there will be VERY few of us. Then he and his buds can have the whole place to themselves and tell each other how smart they are and how everyone else is wrong while UNT goes 1-11 or 0-12.

MeanGreenHoops · May 2, 2016

Interesting post by Harry.

I doubt Coach Littrell was provided a fair assessment of the fanbase. Where we have have gotten that? Unless there is someone very level headed in the AD office who was in charge of that, they will probably think that most on here are idiots.

However, as much as I'm loathe to read another @UNT90 post about the failings of the leadership, he's basically right. And it's pretty much universal that even the ones arguing with him here to shut up about it agree with him.

Where I think that discord resonates though is that it's central to where this apathy lies that @Harry spoke about. Things are different around here now. We do have a conference, a budget, the facilities, to compete and yet we don't. This is where the real apathy has set in. I think it's different this time around.

For years on here and the previous board, you'd have people get sick of the losing and throw fits and then eventually disappear (assuming from attending games as well). But the majority here could always see many reasons why we shouldn't be competing and just kept on plugging along thinking we needed to support the program because it didn't have a full deck to play with and if we gave up it might just go away. As @Cerebus rightly said, 95%+ of the alumni didn't care, so we tried to take up the slack.

But with these new things that have seemingly leveled the playing field, we are no further along playing on that leveled field. We still lose every year.

I do think where I differ on this is that, we are very early in that "being on a level playing field". I also think this football staff is one that could turn it around. However, my indifference, is deeper in that I don't think we can maintain success. There aren't enough building blocks there. The season ticket base is woefully small, the MGC is woefully small, there just isn't any major improvement in the base of fans. So even best case we go 6-6 this year and make it to a bowl next, i don't think the roots and building blocks are there to make it something the other 95%+ jump on board with.

I guess for me the difference is, I used to always see reasons why we lost. Now I don't see those reasons, but we still lose. And I don't believe that even if Littrell turns it around that the school could take advantage of that and double or triple the fan base. This more than anything makes me have apathy.

Hopefully Littrell and his staff can not just win, but do something that we don't expect. Like get ranked. Because it will take this kind of jolt to move the needle around here.

UNT90 · May 2, 2016

On April 30, 2016 at 9:03 AM, GrandGreen said:

I am not sure what you and others think is wrong with NT that it just can't compete with the likes of UTEP, Rice, La Tech, USM and UTSA.

Mainly that the Univesity of North Texas doesn't care whether they compete with those or any other universities in athletics and haven't for decades.

I don't know how you can say this is simply a leadership problem when the biggest athletic donors to this program continue to rabidly support an AD that has done so much damage that it may not be repairable. Because he is their little buddy. That doesn't happen anywhere else.

That is culture. Plain and simple.

UNT90 · May 2, 2016

1 hour ago, MeanGreenHoops said:

However, as much as I'm loathe to read another @UNT90 post about the failings of the leadership, he's basically right. And it's pretty much universal that even the ones arguing with him here to shut up about it agree with him.

Shutting up about it is the status quo at UNT. It's why things have been the way they are for decades.

I'll continue to post about the failure of the AD and the culture at UNT very often until I just don't post anymore, which will happen (just like most of the others). I'm getting close to the point where I don't think anything will change the athletic failure at UNT, mainly because UNT doesn't care to change it.

Problem is I'm stubborn. It's both an attribute and a flaw. I'll probably hang around longer than I should, but believe me, there will come a point where it just isn't worth it anymore.

And UNT could give a shit.

Edited May 2, 2016 by UNT90

untjim1995 · May 2, 2016

On ‎5‎/‎1‎/‎2016 at 1:12 AM, Aquila_Viridis said:

I have nothing against having a beer at a festival. I do have something against red shirts. Also it's not Christmas time.

Well success can happen anywhere. Virginia was terrible in football for decades (and more recently went back to that). Similar to NT, it followed a leadership decision to de-emphasize football. Then George Welsh came along and we had several really good years. They have struggled with the commitment to football at their level too and so never beat VT anymore. VT has rabid supporters cause there is not much else in southwest Virginia. When I think about this it occurs to me maybe why NT doesn't stir up the community is cause then they would be accountable to the stirred up community. I don't know what you guys down there could do to stir it up for them. I would contribute to a fund to take out a full page ad in DMN or a billboard or something, that highlights the failures and says 'Aren't you people of this area ashamed of this? Don't you want to do something about it? Wouldn't you like to have a REAL public university right here in this area, that represents you?' Raising public awareness is not exactly something I am good at, but that is what needs to happen. I think a few people have bought off a major university really cheap. I have no idea what they are getting out of it; it's not winning. There must be some kind of misconduct involved. Maybe I should have contributed to the FireRV banner but I thought it was too specific. I don't necessarily want anyone fired but I would like for them to feel compelled to do some things they are not doing. On the other hand it is fair to say that no university that is taking sports seriously would have failed to make an AD change by now. It truly does sicken me. It should sicken you all too.

So, here's THE problem for anyone who likes Mean Green Sports. The answers to your questions above about being ashamed of our ineptitude in athletics and doing something about it are not EVER going to get answered the way you want them to be answered. Instead, you'd get a collective "Meh" from the students and alumni on the first point and even worse, when asked about what to do, a gigantic majority would clearly answer to get rid of the program altogether, just to make their costs go down and to be used towards their majors, like UTD does.

Your last sentence is the truth. It does sicken a lot of us on gmg.com. It probably sickens some of the 2% of the alumni and students who have ever cared about our program. But the 98% don't care or openly loathe the existence of the program. So your administration and BOR run the school and the AD like the majority want it to be run, never daring to step out of the box at all in regards to athletics. They know that the revolt amongst the students body, faculty, and local citizenry would probably cost them their jobs. And, now, they have done something brilliant to keep their ass off the line in regards to athletic funding and expectations by doing what the university's leadership has always done best--they sold off the program to a few alumni, allowing them to be in charge, while not having to allocate further resources to the AD. And RV, following the lead of the BOR, just insulated himself within the belly of the UNT 17, a place that RV cannot be forced out by a President who cared about athletics, just to not disturb the apple cart of those 17 donors.

RV is the main symptom of the Apathy Virus. And the only thing that could change this is to win bigger than we ever have in almost 40 years in football. But nobody wins big at any place that doesn't want to win big at the administrative level. And we don't. This website, in all of its greatness, will remain for a lot of us as our only connection to UNT Athletics going forward--because of the entertainment, but also because spending one more second or more penny on a UNT Sporting event under this prevailing mode of thinking will always be a colossal waste of time and money. So you get a brand new stadium that cannot get even half full for a season, on average, or a basketball arena that probably isn't even 20% full on most nights. And the leadership has made it abundantly clear how that affects their direction of the program--not even one iota of change. I'm starting to believe that the only value our degrees can get from North Texas is for the university to stop embarrassing it by allowing a sports program to be offered like an ISD would do. Because, in business, its not even worth it to talk about UNT sports to anyone. Instead, the UNT alum just talks about the P5 college team they have adopted or the pro sports team the love. Its been that way for decades, and I suppose it would take something colossal to change that--like going undefeated, including a win or two over P5 teams that garner media and alumni attention. And that's where the great George Strait's song about "Ocean Front Property in Arizona" comes to mind...you might as well just throw a BCS Bowl berth in for free.

Edited May 2, 2016 by untjim1995

PRAK · May 2, 2016

It really amazes me that year after year people stay on this site and can actually find a way to look forward to another obvious failure of a season. You people fill my heart with woe. please kill this football program already. I hate the university of North Texas. take my degree back because it's embarrassing to tell people where I graduated. A true joke of a university in every respect.

CaribbeanGreen · May 2, 2016

8 minutes ago, PRAK said:

It really amazes me that year after year people stay on this site and can actually find a way to look forward to another obvious failure of a season. You people fill my heart with woe. please kill this football program already. I hate the university of North Texas. take my degree back because it's embarrassing to tell people where I graduated. A true joke of a university in every respect.

All signs point to the cold hard fact that PRAK is bizarro KRAM. A true NIY and GNAY situation.

UNTLifer · May 2, 2016

19 minutes ago, PRAK said:

It really amazes me that year after year people stay on this site and can actually find a way to look forward to another obvious failure of a season. You people fill my heart with woe. please kill this football program already. I hate the university of North Texas. take my degree back because it's embarrassing to tell people where I graduated. A true joke of a university in every respect.

What a freaking idiot. Aren't you the same poster that came to the defense of Carlos Harris' ridiculous actions after getting thrown out of a game? Yep, thought so.

Edited May 2, 2016 by UNTLifer

Aldo · May 2, 2016

22 minutes ago, PRAK said:

It really amazes me that year after year people stay on this site and can actually find a way to look forward to another obvious failure of a season. You people fill my heart with woe. please kill this football program already. I hate the university of North Texas. take my degree back because it's embarrassing to tell people where I graduated. A true joke of a university in every respect.

Ok.

Sorry you weren't good enough or smart enough to get a degree from somewhere less embarrassing.

But that's not on us. That's on you.

untjim1995 · May 2, 2016

52 minutes ago, PRAK said:

It really amazes me that year after year people stay on this site and can actually find a way to look forward to another obvious failure of a season. You people fill my heart with woe. please kill this football program already. I hate the university of North Texas. take my degree back because it's embarrassing to tell people where I graduated. A true joke of a university in every respect.

Well, if you really feel this way and aren't a troll, as I suspect, the easy answer here is to not to list on any resume that you went to UNT and got a degree, nor mention you went here. I'm sure that will help to make your life "less embarrassing"...Of course, if you thought Carlos Harris' last home game antics was not embarrassing, I'm gonna guess that your definition of embarrassment is very different from mine.

My best guess is that you are trolling and that you are a millennial...

mad dog · May 2, 2016

On ‎4‎/‎29‎/‎2016 at 4:02 PM, Harry said:

The current state of our fanbase does not change the fact that all of us hope like hell you can succeed. We do. Badly. Forgive us, but at this point in the game some (not all) of us may need to see some results before we can get back on track. We need a trend upward for the optimism to rekindle. We may need to see some competitive, smart football and recruiting before we can start spreading the gospel again. Our skepticism did not come overnight, but was rather developed over time and in such it will take some time to subside. We may be less willing to emotionally connect as we were in the past but the embers of that passion are still there...they just need to be stoked.

This is exactly what I told the ticket office rep who called and asked if I wanted to renew my season tickets. The older I get, the greater the demands on my time (and resources). From family to church to work to the specific programs I graduated from at UNT, I only have so much to give, and each moment and dollar is precious. I love the school, and want the best for the program, but once they laid down and quit against Portland State, I couldn't justify the expense anymore. It was kind of hanging on by a thread before that, but that was the nail in the coffin. I believe that the coach and players have it within themselves to be great, but at this point, the credit is officially shot with me. It can be earned back, but until I see it happen, I am living my life as though it won't.

SilverEagle · May 2, 2016

5 hours ago, UNT90 said:

Mainly that the Univesity of North Texas doesn't care whether they compete with those or any other universities in athletics and haven't for decades.

I don't know how you can say this is simply a leadership problem when the biggest athletic donors to this program continue to rabidly support an AD that has done so much damage that it may not be repairable. Because he is their little buddy. That doesn't happen anywhere else.

That is culture. Plain and simple.

Thank you sir. Because I've been saying that (culture) for years. For over a decade everyone goes on and on about winning, and facilities, and conference affiliation etc etc. But I have always said that it was our culture that needed to change more than anything else. (*some of you have already heard this rant, so go get some coffee or (depending on the time of day) a single malt and browse elsewhere whilst I re-rant).

When Hayden Fry arrived he went about assessing the state of the athletic department as well as the state of mind of the faculty, students and alumni. What he decided was that we needed a cultural makeover and we needed to rid ourselves of our inferiority complex. So he set about changing our image and (hopefully) attitude. He changed the shade of green (radically), our logo, and emphasized "Mean Green" over Eagles.........and despite what many of the anti-Fry guys think, he did not try to eliminate Eagles as our mascot. He then went about creating a fund raising organization (Mean Green club) and went about going to community organizations and small towns around Denton asking for their support. I haven't seen anything like it since.

untjim1995 · May 2, 2016

8 minutes ago, SilverEagle said:

Thank you sir. Because I've been saying that (culture) for years. For over a decade everyone goes on and on about winning, and facilities, and conference affiliation etc etc. But I have always said that it was our culture that needed to change more than anything else. (*some of you have already heard this rant, so go get some coffee or (depending on the time of day) a single malt and browse elsewhere whilst I re-rant).

When Hayden Fry arrived he went about assessing the state of the athletic department as well as the state of mind of the faculty, students and alumni. What he decided was that we needed a cultural makeover and we needed to rid ourselves of our inferiority complex. So he set about changing our image and (hopefully) attitude. He changed the shade of green (radically), our logo, and emphasized "Mean Green" over Eagles.........and despite what many of the anti-Fry guys think, he did not try to eliminate Eagles as our mascot. He then went about creating a fund raising organization (Mean Green club) and went about going to community organizations and small towns around Denton asking for their support. I haven't seen anything like it since.

I just don't see how you can change the culture of a place that has either loathed football or just ignored it for decades at the administrative level and within the faculty and the student body.

Obviously, winning might do the trick, but its not as if the few times we have had a winning season, that it has turned into anything of major note at the stadiums in Denton. Since 1991, we have had 5 winning seasons (1994, 2002-2004, and 2013). Even in those seasons, we didn't even average 2/3rds of the capacity of stadium. Maybe its being in a pro market or being surrounded by P5 giants, but nothing about the SLC, Big West, SBC, or CUSA has really moved the needle in the generic fans' eyes.

ntmeangreen11 · May 2, 2016

There is no rebuilding trust with RV. That bridge is burned.

UNT90 · May 3, 2016

2 hours ago, ntmeangreen11 said:

There is no rebuilding trust with RV. That bridge is burned.

And RV doesn't care. He has the trust of the 17, and has Fly has been VERY clear to tell us, that is the only trust that matters.

Side Show Joe · May 3, 2016

5 hours ago, PRAK said:

It really amazes me that year after year people stay on this site and can actually find a way to look forward to another obvious failure of a season. You people fill my heart with woe. please kill this football program already. I hate the university of North Texas. take my degree back because it's embarrassing to tell people where I graduated. A true joke of a university in every respect.

Any embarrassment you feel regarding your degree is of your own doing. If you excelled at your profession, you would have nothing to complain about. Your North Texas degree is not the problem.

FirefightnRick · May 3, 2016

3 hours ago, ntmeangreen11 said:

There is no rebuilding trust with RV. That bridge is burned.

More and more people are starting to realize this.

Rick

10Eagle10 · May 3, 2016

There also needs to be a focus on rebuilding trust within the North Texas former athletes.

There are very few in that group that have anything nice to say about the hustler.

It's always amazed me that the 17 believe in a man that's never had a single offer from another D1 athletic program. Think about your own profession...if someone else isn't trying to hire you away, what does that say about your body of work?

Ryan Munthe · May 3, 2016

I've hit a point where I just, honestly, don't care. I guess that's bad.

Mike Jackson · May 3, 2016

Received my well over $1000 invoice for my vacated season tickets just the other day. I wrote Fire RV on it left all the payment information blank. It is an outrage that this guy is still employed here. Show me any organization that will let a floundering leader like this continue in their role and I will show you an organization that will most likely fail. As long as he employed here as AD the UNT is broadcasting loud and clear that it does not care to have a good athletic program. They just want decent looking facilities that don't reflect poorly on the university. As of right now, I only plan to attend 2 games. Good luck Seth. I hope desperately that you beat the odds and prove me wrong.

Edited May 4, 2016 by Mike Jackson

Aquila_Viridis · May 3, 2016

9 hours ago, PRAK said:

It really amazes me that year after year people stay on this site and can actually find a way to look forward to another obvious failure of a season. You people fill my heart with woe. please kill this football program already. I hate the university of North Texas. take my degree back because it's embarrassing to tell people where I graduated. A true joke of a university in every respect.

Yeh yeh I get it. And I should have said 'GREAT university' instead of 'REAL university'. I haven't got to the point where I won't mention North Texas, but it has got to the point where my wife, who also got her degree there, gets mad when I mention North Texas to people. In SECland there is no other place you could mention and get more snickers. Because NT is the opposite of an SEC school. NT is larger than most of them, but they take football seriously. NT clearly does not aspire to be like an SEC school. But when you look at their extremism, then you could say they snicker because basically you are saying their way of life doesn't matter, and the snickering is a defense mechanism, like 'Surely you jest; football means everything!' But they are thinking, 'it must, because if it doesn't then I don't have anything left.' So I am going back to the idea that NT has football and basketball solely (and bravely!) to kick sand in the face of the big muscle guys. I'm not sure why NT would want to do that or why anyone would support it, but that's what you have. You can choose to support it or not. I wish I could say that I am committed to NT's role as a loveable smartass, but I am not. I want NT to get in shape and stop being an A-hole. Harry is probably right that it wouldn't take much evidence of NT turning it around for me to return my support, to NT's progress in a better direction. I don't expect NT to compete with schools from SEC and other big conferences, but I do expect for NT's football and basketball to exist for reasons other than to merely serve as a counterpoint. That was a really bad idea and whoever came up with it SHOULD be fired.

97and03 · May 3, 2016

Ironically UNT has equal or better academics than much of the SEC.

Priorities.

Aquila_Viridis · May 3, 2016

3 minutes ago, 97and03 said:

Ironically UNT has equal or better academics than much of the SEC.

Priorities.

That is ABSOLUTELY untrue. All SEC schools are ranked far ahead of NT in US News and Forbes; NT is near the very, very far bottom. That is why it is so ridiculous for NT to try to pull off the Stanford band kind of thing.