Rebuilding trust within the North Texas fanbase

[Aquila_Viridis]

Not a systemic failure?! You forgot the coach before that, and the one before that who after some success fell into the toilet, and the one before that, and the one before that... 

This is not about Trust, it's about Hope, and there really is no reason for either except for maybe to achieve occasional, brief and fleeting instances of success. That's not enough. If you are a betting man, this is not a good bet. We're spending more than before, but well less than Old Dominion and comparable to the UABs of the world, which killed their program and is in a county that went bankrupt. At this point NT sports is for me like 'The Kramer' from Seinfeld, it sickens me yet I can't look away. I guess the difference is that I'm not buying The Kramer anymore.

[Hunter Green]

8 hours ago, GrandGreen said:

Thanks Harry, a great article.

The truth hurts and the history of major sports at NT is truly dismal.  

There are a myriad of reasons for the poor performance history.  The good thing is that most have been relatively recently addressed; facilities, a conference with a Texas presence, and competitive budgets.  This gives me hope.

In football, only Mac had the tools to be competitive with most G5 schools.  Mac was a failure and I can't understand how anyone can defend his lack of success.  It was not culture, apathy or anything else but poor performance; he took over a bad program and made it worse with resources his predecessors could only dream about.   

Until proven different, I think this is the failure of one head coach.   Not a systemic failure of NT, but one coach who could not cut it.  Recruiting is the obvious key, and despite what some think that can be turned over relatively quickly.  NT or any other G5 school is going to get more than an occasional player with P5 interest, but there is no reason that NT can't move quickly up within the G5's. 

Good point, Grand. But it's not just Mac.  It's Mac + Dodge + Benford + Stevens + what's his name after that. They all run together as one bad hire after another that leads to one common denominator. Losing. Someone should be accountable for that.

[southsideguy]

8 hours ago, GrandGreen said:

Thanks Harry, a great article.

The truth hurts and the history of major sports at NT is truly dismal.  

There are a myriad of reasons for the poor performance history.  The good thing is that most have been relatively recently addressed; facilities, a conference with a Texas presence, and competitive budgets.  This gives me hope.

In football, only Mac had the tools to be competitive with most G5 schools.  Mac was a failure and I can't understand how anyone can defend his lack of success.  It was not culture, apathy or anything else but poor performance; he took over a bad program and made it worse with resources his predecessors could only dream about.   

Until proven different, I think this is the failure of one head coach.   Not a systemic failure of NT, but one coach who could not cut it.  Recruiting is the obvious key, and despite what some think that can be turned over relatively quickly.  NT or any other G5 school is going to get more than an occasional player with P5 interest, but there is no reason that NT can't move quickly up within the G5's. 

we all hope you are right. 

 

[Hunter Green]

23 minutes ago, southsideguy said:

we all hope you are right. 

 

Brilliant!

[UNT90]

1 hour ago, Hunter Green said:

Good point, Grand. But it's not just Mac.  It's Mac + Dodge + Benford + Stevens + what's his name after that. They all run together as one bad hire after another that leads to one common denominator. Losing. Someone should be accountable for that.

Correct, the problem isn't "one head coach." That is wishful thinking. The main problem isn't even a terrible AD that has made bad hire after bad hire after bad hire.

The main problem is a university culture that allows that AD to keep robbing UNT of $375k a year despite clear evidence that he has failed miserably in his describe job performance goals. 

How do you change that culture? Evidence shows that may be an impossibility, as that culture has thrived at UNT for well over 30 years. You would need to change the majority of BOR members, the chancellor, the university president, and the athletic director for this culture change to occur. 

Thats not going to happen.

So more and more people just walk away. 

Don't blame them one bit.

Edited April 30, 2016 by UNT90

[bstnsportsfan3]

The main problem is accountability... if no one cares to make a change, then why should the fans care about the product? 

[GrandGreen]

9 hours ago, Aquila_Viridis said:

Not a systemic failure?! You forgot the coach before that, and the one before that who after some success fell into the toilet, and the one before that, and the one before that... 

This is not about Trust, it's about Hope, and there really is no reason for either except for maybe to achieve occasional, brief and fleeting instances of success. That's not enough. If you are a betting man, this is not a good bet. We're spending more than before, but well less than Old Dominion and comparable to the UABs of the world, which killed their program and is in a county that went bankrupt. At this point NT sports is for me like 'The Kramer' from Seinfeld, it sickens me yet I can't look away. I guess the difference is that I'm not buying The Kramer anymore.

 

2 hours ago, Hunter Green said:

Good point, Grand. But it's not just Mac.  It's Mac + Dodge + Benford + Stevens + what's his name after that. They all run together as one bad hire after another that leads to one common denominator. Losing. Someone should be accountable for that.

The point of the post is that the coaches before Mac were not playing on a level field because of lack of resources and an out of state conference affiliation.  

I don't think the lack of resources is an argument relating to the Belt because NT always in the top half in budget.  However, playing in the Belt is and was far from an attractive conference for Texas kids.

I am not sure what you and others think is wrong with NT that it just can't compete with the likes of UTEP, Rice, La Tech, USM and UTSA.     Is it Denton is haunted or the more popular and rational, NT needs new leadership? 

I agree a new AD is past due, that is a discussion I really didn't want to get into because there are thousands of comments already.  To me that is not close to a systematic or cultural problem with the NT program.  Even the usual response of ineffective leadership that won't make that change does not support many's mantra of gloom and doom at NT. 

There is nothing wrong with NT, it is just the opposite.  Bad decisions and the results point to poor management not a systemic cultural environment that is beyond repair.   

[DeepGreen]

Sometimes I think the "culture" thing, and not requiring accountability in Athletics or other areas of the University, is written into UNT's Quality Process Mission Statement.  And they hold true to that mission year after year.

[FirefightnRick]

20 hours ago, Harry said:

 

The apathy seen here on this board and in other places has to do with the past. 

 

Not for me......or just about anyone else I know.  For me I t has to do with the present.  If we were under new leadership I would be much more excited about the future.  

Rick

Edited April 30, 2016 by FirefightnRick

[UTSA Fan]

My fear in reading all these posts is that vision, mission, goals, accountability, culture change, etc. All assume one thing, the desire to change with the will to do so. I kept asking myself over the past few months of my Fandom how does all of this continue to happen? It's like seriel emotional battery. Incompetence is the front runner, but that assumes effort. I'm struggling to not think that in the power structure this is acceptable, that's why it continues. I'm very confused about what is happening with the program. I personally need to see a marked improvement next season for me to remain positive & optimistic the potential will be realized. Its going to be a long summer.

Edited April 30, 2016 by UTSA Fan

[oldguystudent]

Apathy is a good word.  I feel numb to all of it.  I keep paying, keep going back, not angry, but neither am I excited.  It just...is.

[DeepGreen]

Maybe the end game at UNT is to:

1. See to it that RV retires with full State of Texas retirement benefits and pensions

2. Drop down to FCS so we can maybe be more competitive with a lower budget

3. Take over the annual FCS Championship game from those people over in Frisco (takeover hosting the game; God forbid we actually play in the championship game!).  After all, we have a stadium designed for football, not soccer and maybe football

[FirefightnRick]

18 hours ago, UNT90 said:

 Harry will get A LOT of flack from the UNT AD over this post. 

Why do you say that?  There's not an ounce of laying any blame at RV's feet in his post.  Just glossed right over it..

 

Rick

Edited April 30, 2016 by FirefightnRick

[Cerebus]

52 minutes ago, FirefightnRick said:

Why do you say that?  There's not an ounce of laying any blame at RV's feet in his post.  Just glossed right over it..

 

Rick

[FirefightnRick]

57 minutes ago, Cerebus said:

I prefer the direct...HONEST approach.  Too much hem hawing around is how we got into this mess in the first place.

 

Rick

[EagleMBA]

1 hour ago, FirefightnRick said:

I prefer the direct...HONEST approach.  Too much hem hawing around is how we got into this mess in the first place.

 

Rick

Harry's post was outstanding, but I get that you wanted him to be a bit more blunt.

Edited April 30, 2016 by EagleMBA

[Christopher Walker]

4 hours ago, DeepGreen said:

Maybe the end game at UNT is to:

1. See to it that RV retires with full State of Texas retirement benefits and pensions

2. Drop down to FCS so we can maybe be more competitive with a lower budget

3. Take over the annual FCS Championship game from those people over in Frisco (takeover hosting the game; God forbid we actually play in the championship game!).  After all, we have a stadium designed for football, not soccer and maybe football

#1. is actually happening, yes.

[UNT90]

6 hours ago, GrandGreen said:

 

The point of the post is that the coaches before Mac were not playing on a level field because of lack of resources and an out of state conference affiliation.  

I don't think the lack of resources is an argument relating to the Belt because NT always in the top half in budget.  However, playing in the Belt is and was far from an attractive conference for Texas kids.

I am not sure what you and others think is wrong with NT that it just can't compete with the likes of UTEP, Rice, La Tech, USM and UTSA.     Is it Denton is haunted or the more popular and rational, NT needs new leadership? 

I agree a new AD is past due, that is a discussion I really didn't want to get into because there are thousands of comments already.  To me that is not close to a systematic or cultural problem with the NT program.  Even the usual response of ineffective leadership that won't make that change does not support many's mantra of gloom and doom at NT. 

There is nothing wrong with NT, it is just the opposite.  Bad decisions and the results point to poor management not a systemic cultural environment that is beyond repair.   

UNT refused to fire a basketball coach that has been a dismal failure after refusing to fire an AD that has been a dismal failure.

The administration doesn't care about athletics. That IS the problem. 

Edited April 30, 2016 by UNT90

[Greenrex]

Good words,Harry. Thanks!
I just picked this up from the interwebs showing Coach and his boss doing their part to rebuild that trust...

 

 

[GRN-WHT]

1 hour ago, Greenrex said:

Good words,Harry. Thanks!
I just picked this up from the interwebs showing Coach and his boss doing their part to rebuild that trust...

Cool red shirt

[UNT90]

8 hours ago, FirefightnRick said:

I prefer the direct...HONEST approach.  Too much hem hawing around is how we got into this mess in the first place.

 

Rick

Harry has to walk a very fine line. Just because he doesn't name names doesn't mean the dissatisfaction isn't there. The whole post deals with constant let down after constant let down and doesn't put the blame on any coaches. 

Read between the lines.

[Aquila_Viridis]

I have nothing against having a beer at a festival. I do have something against red shirts. Also it's not Christmas time.

Well success can happen anywhere. Virginia was terrible in football for decades (and more recently went back to that). Similar to NT, it followed a leadership decision to de-emphasize football. Then George Welsh came along and we had several really good years. They have struggled with the commitment to football at their level too and so never beat VT anymore. VT has rabid supporters cause there is not much else in southwest Virginia. When I think about this it occurs to me maybe why NT doesn't stir up the community is cause then they would be accountable to the stirred up community. I don't know what you guys down there could do to stir it up for them.  I would contribute to a fund to take out a full page ad in DMN or a billboard or something, that highlights the failures and says 'Aren't you people of this area ashamed of this? Don't you want to do something about it? Wouldn't you like to have a REAL public university right here in this area, that represents you?'  Raising public awareness is not exactly something I am good at, but that is what needs to happen. I think a few people have bought off a major university really cheap. I have no idea what they are getting out of it; it's not winning. There must be some kind of misconduct involved. Maybe I should have contributed to the FireRV banner but I thought it was too specific.  I don't necessarily want anyone fired but I would like for them to feel compelled to do some things they are not doing. On the other hand it is fair to say that no university that is taking sports seriously would have failed to make an AD change by now. It truly does sicken me. It should sicken you all too.

[FirefightnRick]

11 hours ago, UNT90 said:

Harry has to walk a very fine line. Just because he doesn't name names doesn't mean the dissatisfaction isn't there. The whole post deals with constant let down after constant let down and doesn't put the blame on any coaches. 

Read between the lines.

So....no more demand from you that Harry hold RV accountable during his podcasts?  

 

Rick

[UNT90]

20 minutes ago, FirefightnRick said:

So....no more demand from you that Harry hold RV accountable during his podcasts?  

 

Rick

I've never really demanded that. Would I love for Harry to ask RV the hard questions? Absolutely. Do I know that would be the last RV appearance on the podcast if Harry did so? Sure. And I would be ok with that, but many many others wouldn't. 

Harry doesn't have the luxury you and I have. He runs a for profit website that covers all things UNT. We can flap our jaws all day long, calling RV a hustler (he is, by the way) and expressing our opinions without real consequences.

I would be willing to bet Harry has already received a call from RV whining about this thread and quite possibly even asking Harry to remove his post. Maybe I'm wrong, but I doubt it.

Harry counts on access to make this site better for everyone, not just you and I. Harry is basically a member of the media. That post hurts him with the AD. The fact that he was willing to post it knowing there would be repurcussions says A LOT.

And we all know how petty RV can be. Just look how Vito was treated during the Dodge "scandals" for just doing his job.

Edited May 1, 2016 by UNT90

[FirefightnRick]

Hem hawing around the truth is just kidding yourself.  I think posting the truth straight up would buy this site many more loyal customers than skirting around the truth.

But, I'd be naive if I thought there weren't people out there that enjoy being misled...so what do I know?

 

Rick