Rebuilding trust within the North Texas fanbase

[Harry]

I hope, for the future of the program that Coach Littrell was provided a fair assessment of our fanbase.   It's clear here on this site and in other places that after the initial excitement in regards to his hire there has been a clear lull among the Mean Green faithful.  Part of this is we are in the dreaded "off-season" where Spring is over and we have that long 3-4 month period of anticipation for the new season.

My fear is that he will see this lack of interest as some reflection on him or his staff.  It is most certainly not his fault.  However, to ignore what got us to this point of ambivalence is naive.  We have to learn from history or we are doomed to repeat it.

The apathy seen here on this board and in other places has to do with the past.  A past that included only one winning football season in over a decade.  A past that included a lack of adequate funding, body bag schedules, huge expectations and overall very little success.  Broken promises.  Disappointments.  The fact we have under-performed against many of our counterparts who have lower budgets and less natural resources (location, academics, history, enrollment).  This is not exaggeration, or a desire to gain attention.  It is a cold, hard reality that cannot be ignored.

Some will tell you that we are a demanding lot, one who can never be satisfied.  Crotchety, old guys who are jaded, and unrealistic in their expectations.  They will tell you to forget about us, write us off.  That North Texas' future is where to focus your time and attention on.  New students, alumni and fans that don't bring the baggage of the past.  While that may be true, I would urge you to keep us "old fogies" in mind.  Our apathy - while not your fault - is real.  It is not staged, it is not hyperbole.  It's the culmination of many consecutive years of disappointment.  At one time most of us were very optimistic.  After several unsuccessful restarts, our ability to motivate behind a new regime has become difficult and in some cases impossible.  Too many great fans have faded into obscurity as the years of losing have grown in number.

Others will tell you things have been a lot worse and they have improved.  There is also some truth in this.  Our facilities and salaries were woefully underfunded for far too long.  As of 2011-12, however, most would agree that the completion of beautiful Apogee stadium, moving to a better conference (C-USA) and more competitive coaching salaries put us in a place where on paper we can and SHOULD succeed.  You are in a better position than most of your predecessors in that particular regard.

The current state of our fanbase does not change the fact that all of us hope like hell you can succeed.  We do.  Badly.  Forgive us, but at this point in the game some (not all) of us may need to see some results before we can get back on track.  We need a trend upward for the optimism to rekindle.  We may need to see some competitive, smart football and recruiting before we can start spreading the gospel again.  Our skepticism did not come overnight, but was rather developed over time and in such it will take some time to subside.   We may be less willing to emotionally connect as we were in the past but the embers of that passion are still there...they just need to be stoked. 

Here's the good news.  North Texas fans are extremely loyal and will come back..  Show us promise, and effort and we will be your best friend.  Show us winning and you will see faces in the stands who have not been here in a long time.  We will share the success with everyone we come in contact to and sing your praises.  We just need your help to get us to "Believe in the Mean Green" again.  And yes, Sept 3rd is absolutely a good day to start turning this ship around.   GMG

[Tyler Maryak]

AMEN

[EagleMBA]

Harry, what a great post! You pretty well encapsulated my thinking as a veteran of the "Mean Green Wars" going back many seasons. Coach Littrell has "got next"; if he can get this team to perform and put up a few wins I too think he will see lots of fans in the seats. As an aside, I was struck by the fact that there was a pretty decent crowd at the Spring Game and that I did not see any fans I recognized. And they didn't all look like the "free stuff" crowd. I think Seth's support is ready to come forth with just a hint of better times...but they are all from Missouri!

Edited April 29, 2016 by EagleMBA

[Marty]

Thanks Harry.

did anyone attend the coaches caravan last night at The Rustic?

[MGNation92]

3 minutes ago, Marty said:

Thanks Harry.

did anyone attend the coaches caravan last night at The Rustic?

Unfortunately no. they did post a wrap up video on Youtube though

 

[Army of Dad]

I just can't see that reconnection taking place under the current leadership. Too many lies, broken promises, and incompetence to overcome. Both sides are just too divided, and likely to remain that way.

Coach Littrell has a monumental task in front of him and support will be lacking (especially in the stands). If he pulls this off then he will have a spot in the HOF, and he will be gone to a bigger job. I am cautiously optimistic that he might actually be able to pull it off. 

Basketball is just f-ed. There's nothing there to be excited about. 

I hope new leadership is forthcoming and SL, Jalie, and whoever is the new men's BB coach can  rekindle the fire of Mean Green Nation and it isn't too late by the time they have success...

[Cerebus]

33 minutes ago, Harry said:

Some will tell you that we are a demanding lot, one who can never be satisfied.  Crotchety, old guys who are jaded, and unrealistic in their expectations.  They will tell you to forget about us, write us off.  That North Texas' future is where to focus your time and attention on.  New students, alumni and fans that don't bring the baggage of the past.  While that may be true, I would urge you to keep us "old fogies" in mind.  Our apathy - while not your fault - is real.  It is not staged, it is not hyperbole.  It's the culmination of many consecutive years of disappointment.  At one time most of us were very optimistic.  After several unsuccessful restarts, our ability to motivate behind a new regime has become difficult and in some cases impossible.  Too many great fans have faded into obscurity as the years of losing have grown in number.

This is why I don't get why people look down on the complainers.  WE'RE HERE AND WE CARE UNLIKE 95%+ OF THE ALUMNI.

The complainers:

• Got involved with athletics when most students didn't.
• Went to games and donated when most student and alumni didn't.
• Stuck through a lot of tough times when many of the few that did get involved dropped out.
• Still care enough to donate money and attend.
• WANT BETTER for our athletics program.

In any given year the fanbase is 1) a ton of new faces most of whom won't be here in five years, and 2) the old guard who has gone through tough times and still cares.

 

Napoleon called his most veteran and seasoned troops Les Grognards ("The Complainers").  They would complain and moan about everything that seemed unfair and poorly done to them, but then they would march directly into cannon fire if called upon.

Good leadership would not try to shun or downplay the grognards, they would use them as the iron core.  

Edited April 29, 2016 by Cerebus

[EagleMBA]

11 minutes ago, Army of Dad said:

I just can't see that reconnection taking place under the current leadership. Too many lies, broken promises, and incompetence to overcome. Both sides are just too divided, and likely to remain that way.

Coach Littrell has a monumental task in front of him and support will be lacking (especially in the stands). If he pulls this off then he will have a spot in the HOF, and he will be gone to a bigger job. I am cautiously optimistic that he might actually be able to pull it off. 

Basketball is just f-ed. There's nothing there to be excited about. 

I hope new leadership is forthcoming and SL, Jalie, and whoever is the new men's BB coach can  rekindle the fire of Mean Green Nation and it isn't too late by the time they have success...

The Fearless Leader was there and prominently featured in the video.

[NorthTexan95]

I don't see any "apathy" on this board.  It wasn't apathy that got the banner flying.  There's no apathy in discussing Benford's job status.  There's certainly no apathy when we discuss RV's job.  I see a lot of emotions but no apathy.  In fact, the only apathy I've seen was the last podcast where you and Evan blew off spring practice to talk about "the good old days".   

[Cerebus]

Just now, NorthTexan95 said:

I don't see any "apathy" on this board. 

There is a ton of apathy on the part of the 95%+ of the alumni that don't bother to show up or get involved with athletics in any way.  That is what I think Harry is discussing.  

[MGNation92]

2 minutes ago, NorthTexan95 said:

I don't see any "apathy" on this board.  It wasn't apathy that got the banner flying.  There's no apathy in discussing Benford's job status.  There's certainly no apathy when we discuss RV's job.  I see a lot of emotions but no apathy.  In fact, the only apathy I've seen was the last podcast where you and Evan blew off spring practice to talk about "the good old days".   

Boom.

But in all seriousness, being a recent graduate(2015) puts me at a crossroads when it comes to UNT athletics. I am heavily invested in football, and slowly coming around to the other sports as well(really looking forward to see what Jalie can do), but the incredible ineptitude displayed by the athletic department is very disheartening. Thankfully, my degree at UNT has given me the opportunity to get a decent job right of school and as such I am able to donate a little bit of money towards my school. I am a part of the alumni association, however I do not donate to the mean green club or buy season tickets for the fear that I may be sucked into a perpetual funk of self-loathing and angrily shaking my fist at a walrus in a sweater vest.

For that very reason I will support the school that I love, but I will do it from a safe distance(general admission) as I feel the only way to garner any change at the top is through the wallet, or lack thereof. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm not. For now I'll keep a comfortable distance while still supporting the school

[DeepGreen]

One season in the last ten did UNT have a winning season, went to a bowl game and won the darn thing as they should have.  And 35,000 UNT fans come out to witness it.  So, it can be done.

The problem I see is what did or didn't happen after that bowl win.  UNT went into their shell.  For whatever reason.  And many fans simply dropped out of the picture.  Me included.  Gave up the nice Club seats.

Edited April 29, 2016 by DeepGreen

[Wag Tag]

1 hour ago, Harry said:

I hope, for the future of the program that Coach Littrell was provided a fair assessment of our fanbase.   It's clear here on this site and in other places that after the initial excitement in regards to his hire there has been a clear lull among the Mean Green faithful.  Part of this is we are in the dreaded "off-season" where Spring is over and we have that long 3-4 month period of anticipation for the new season.

My fear is that he will see this lack of interest as some reflection on him or his staff.  It is most certainly not his fault.  However, to ignore what got us to this point of ambivalence is naive.  We have to learn from history or we are doomed to repeat it.

The apathy seen here on this board and in other places has to do with the past.  A past that included only one winning football season in over a decade.  A past that included a lack of adequate funding, body bag schedules, huge expectations and overall very little success.  Broken promises.  Disappointments.  The fact we have under-performed against many of our counterparts who have lower budgets and less natural resources (location, academics, history, enrollment).  This is not exaggeration, or a desire to gain attention.  It is a cold, hard reality that cannot be ignored.

Some will tell you that we are a demanding lot, one who can never be satisfied.  Crotchety, old guys who are jaded, and unrealistic in their expectations.  They will tell you to forget about us, write us off.  That North Texas' future is where to focus your time and attention on.  New students, alumni and fans that don't bring the baggage of the past.  While that may be true, I would urge you to keep us "old fogies" in mind.  Our apathy - while not your fault - is real.  It is not staged, it is not hyperbole.  It's the culmination of many consecutive years of disappointment.  At one time most of us were very optimistic.  After several unsuccessful restarts, our ability to motivate behind a new regime has become difficult and in some cases impossible.  Too many great fans have faded into obscurity as the years of losing have grown in number.

Others will tell you things have been a lot worse and they have improved.  There is also some truth in this.  Our facilities and salaries were woefully underfunded for far too long.  As of 2011-12, however, most would agree that the completion of beautiful Apogee stadium, moving to a better conference (C-USA) and more competitive coaching salaries put us in a place where on paper we can and SHOULD succeed.  You are in a better position than most of your predecessors in that particular regard.

The current state of our fanbase does not change the fact that all of us hope like hell you can succeed.  We do.  Badly.  Forgive us, but at this point in the game some (not all) of us may need to see some results before we can get back on track.  We need a trend upward for the optimism to rekindle.  We may need to see some competitive, smart football and recruiting before we can start spreading the gospel again.  Our skepticism did not come overnight, but was rather developed over time and in such it will take some time to subside.   We may be less willing to emotionally connect as we were in the past but the embers of that passion are still there...they just need to be stoked. 

Here's the good news.  North Texas fans are extremely loyal and will come back..  Show us promise, and effort and we will be your best friend.  Show us winning and you will see faces in the stands who have not been here in a long time.  We will share the success with everyone we come in contact to and sing your praises.  We just need your help to get us to "Believe in the Mean Green" again.  And yes, Sept 3rd is absolutely a good day to start turning this ship around.   GMG

Give us a spec of success and we will show up. We are all hungry for the goal line stand against Rice screaming our brains out and of course the HOD bowl with 30,000 plus. These are the things I try to think about when I get pissed off. Potential potential potential we all see it especially with the new facilities. As we have gone to a younger HC in football it is time to do the same at the AD level. GMG 

[Green P1]

1 hour ago, Harry said:

I hope, for the future of the program that Coach Littrell was provided a fair assessment of our fanbase.   It's clear here on this site and in other places that after the initial excitement in regards to his hire there has been a clear lull among the Mean Green faithful.  Part of this is we are in the dreaded "off-season" where Spring is over and we have that long 3-4 month period of anticipation for the new season.

My fear is that he will see this lack of interest as some reflection on him or his staff.  It is most certainly not his fault.  However, to ignore what got us to this point of ambivalence is naive.  We have to learn from history or we are doomed to repeat it.

The apathy seen here on this board and in other places has to do with the past.  A past that included only one winning football season in over a decade.  A past that included a lack of adequate funding, body bag schedules, huge expectations and overall very little success.  Broken promises.  Disappointments.  The fact we have under-performed against many of our counterparts who have lower budgets and less natural resources (location, academics, history, enrollment).  This is not exaggeration, or a desire to gain attention.  It is a cold, hard reality that cannot be ignored.

Some will tell you that we are a demanding lot, one who can never be satisfied.  Crotchety, old guys who are jaded, and unrealistic in their expectations.  They will tell you to forget about us, write us off.  That North Texas' future is where to focus your time and attention on.  New students, alumni and fans that don't bring the baggage of the past.  While that may be true, I would urge you to keep us "old fogies" in mind.  Our apathy - while not your fault - is real.  It is not staged, it is not hyperbole.  It's the culmination of many consecutive years of disappointment.  At one time most of us were very optimistic.  After several unsuccessful restarts, our ability to motivate behind a new regime has become difficult and in some cases impossible.  Too many great fans have faded into obscurity as the years of losing have grown in number.

Others will tell you things have been a lot worse and they have improved.  There is also some truth in this.  Our facilities and salaries were woefully underfunded for far too long.  As of 2011-12, however, most would agree that the completion of beautiful Apogee stadium, moving to a better conference (C-USA) and more competitive coaching salaries put us in a place where on paper we can and SHOULD succeed.  You are in a better position than most of your predecessors in that particular regard.

The current state of our fanbase does not change the fact that all of us hope like hell you can succeed.  We do.  Badly.  Forgive us, but at this point in the game some (not all) of us may need to see some results before we can get back on track.  We need a trend upward for the optimism to rekindle.  We may need to see some competitive, smart football and recruiting before we can start spreading the gospel again.  Our skepticism did not come overnight, but was rather developed over time and in such it will take some time to subside.   We may be less willing to emotionally connect as we were in the past but the embers of that passion are still there...they just need to be stoked. 

Here's the good news.  North Texas fans are extremely loyal and will come back..  Show us promise, and effort and we will be your best friend.  Show us winning and you will see faces in the stands who have not been here in a long time.  We will share the success with everyone we come in contact to and sing your praises.  We just need your help to get us to "Believe in the Mean Green" again.  And yes, Sept 3rd is absolutely a good day to start turning this ship around.   GMG

Great post... If you could go back and replace the words "Some" and "Others" with "RV" it would be a perfect post. 

[NorthTexan95]

46 minutes ago, DeepGreen said:

One season in the last ten did UNT have a winning season, went to a bowl game and won the darn thing as they should have.  And 35,000 UNT fans come out to witness it.  So, it can be done.

The problem I see is what did or didn't happen after that bowl win.  UNT went into their shell.  For whatever reason.  And many fans simply dropped out of the picture.  Me included.  Gave up the nice Club seats.

Yep! 

1 hour ago, Cerebus said:

There is a ton of apathy on the part of the 95%+ of the alumni that don't bother to show up or get involved with athletics in any way.  That is what I think Harry is discussing.  

He specifically said "here on this board".  Apathy is the last description I would use.

[UNT90]

1 hour ago, NorthTexan95 said:

I don't see any "apathy" on this board.  It wasn't apathy that got the banner flying.  There's no apathy in discussing Benford's job status.  There's certainly no apathy when we discuss RV's job.  I see a lot of emotions but no apathy.  In fact, the only apathy I've seen was the last podcast where you and Evan blew off spring practice to talk about "the good old days".   

 

 

1 hour ago, Cerebus said:

There is a ton of apathy on the part of the 95%+ of the alumni that don't bother to show up or get involved with athletics in any way.  That is what I think Harry is discussing.  

And there Is a TON of apathy in the UNT administration that allows the worst athletic director and a disaster of a basketball coach to keep collecting checks they don't earn. 

The retention of those 2 back to back is what has killed any fan excitement. UNT showed it didn't care about athletics. If UNT doesn't care, why should any alumni? It's a frustrating, losing proposition to love something that doesn't love itself.

And its dysfunctional, just like everything involving UNT athletics at this time. 

 

1 hour ago, Harry said:

I hope, for the future of the program that Coach Littrell was provided a fair assessment of our fanbase.   It's clear here on this site and in other places that after the initial excitement in regards to his hire there has been a clear lull among the Mean Green faithful.  Part of this is we are in the dreaded "off-season" where Spring is over and we have that long 3-4 month period of anticipation for the new season.

My fear is that he will see this lack of interest as some reflection on him or his staff.  It is most certainly not his fault.  However, to ignore what got us to this point of ambivalence is naive.  We have to learn from history or we are doomed to repeat it.

The apathy seen here on this board and in other places has to do with the past.  A past that included only one winning football season in over a decade.  A past that included a lack of adequate funding, body bag schedules, huge expectations and overall very little success.  Broken promises.  Disappointments.  The fact we have under-performed against many of our counterparts who have lower budgets and less natural resources (location, academics, history, enrollment).  This is not exaggeration, or a desire to gain attention.  It is a cold, hard reality that cannot be ignored.

Some will tell you that we are a demanding lot, one who can never be satisfied.  Crotchety, old guys who are jaded, and unrealistic in their expectations.  They will tell you to forget about us, write us off.  That North Texas' future is where to focus your time and attention on.  New students, alumni and fans that don't bring the baggage of the past.  While that may be true, I would urge you to keep us "old fogies" in mind.  Our apathy - while not your fault - is real.  It is not staged, it is not hyperbole.  It's the culmination of many consecutive years of disappointment.  At one time most of us were very optimistic.  After several unsuccessful restarts, our ability to motivate behind a new regime has become difficult and in some cases impossible.  Too many great fans have faded into obscurity as the years of losing have grown in number.

Others will tell you things have been a lot worse and they have improved.  There is also some truth in this.  Our facilities and salaries were woefully underfunded for far too long.  As of 2011-12, however, most would agree that the completion of beautiful Apogee stadium, moving to a better conference (C-USA) and more competitive coaching salaries put us in a place where on paper we can and SHOULD succeed.  You are in a better position than most of your predecessors in that particular regard.

The current state of our fanbase does not change the fact that all of us hope like hell you can succeed.  We do.  Badly.  Forgive us, but at this point in the game some (not all) of us may need to see some results before we can get back on track.  We need a trend upward for the optimism to rekindle.  We may need to see some competitive, smart football and recruiting before we can start spreading the gospel again.  Our skepticism did not come overnight, but was rather developed over time and in such it will take some time to subside.   We may be less willing to emotionally connect as we were in the past but the embers of that passion are still there...they just need to be stoked. 

Here's the good news.  North Texas fans are extremely loyal and will come back..  Show us promise, and effort and we will be your best friend.  Show us winning and you will see faces in the stands who have not been here in a long time.  We will share the success with everyone we come in contact to and sing your praises.  We just need your help to get us to "Believe in the Mean Green" again.  And yes, Sept 3rd is absolutely a good day to start turning this ship around.   GMG

People should pay attention to this post. Harry will get A LOT of flack from the UNT AD over this post. The fact that Harry was willing to post something like this tells you how bad this program is hurting. 

Pay attention, folks. Read this post twice. Realize what it really is.

Edited April 29, 2016 by UNT90

[Side Show Joe]

I think the unsatisfied "vocal" faction on this board believe we need a change in the larger administrative regime. Yes we have new leadership in football, but that only effects what happens on the field. I don't think this board suffers from apathy. Sure a few might, but overall I believe we suffer from a difference of opinions on how our athletics have been operated for the past several years, and the results we have seen. I'm not apathetic, I'm angry. But I'm not going to blame Littrell for that. And I am certainly pulling for him and our team. Despite my frustrations with all of the issues you listed, I doubled my Mean Green Club donation this season. I didn't do it as an endorsement of the results we have seen from the real regime, our long in the tooth regime, but in support of our athletic teams, like football. Only the fair-weather fans need their passions stoked.

Harry, I totally agree with your list of issues that have divided this board, and driven away the many of our fair-weather fans, but I honestly don't think we will see a reconciliation on this board under the current athletic administrative leadership. Both sides are very entrenched in their opinions.

[Army of Dad]

20 minutes ago, NorthTexan95 said:

He specifically said "here on this board".  Apathy is the last description I would use.

This is the most quiet the board has been in all my years here. This is a major danger sign, even the more ardent supporters are being driven off. I think it's fair to say that the apathy has seeped into the GMG community.

[Got5onIt]

This is the first time I've renewed season tickets and felt like I'm dumping my money into the toilet. It's like pouring more money into a car you know is just going to brake down and leave you stranded on the highway.....

[southsideguy]

i still haven't renewed, i am sure I will but I keep asking myself why?

[Hunter Green]

5 hours ago, Harry said:

I hope, for the future of the program that Coach Littrell was provided a fair assessment of our fanbase.   It's clear here on this site and in other places that after the initial excitement in regards to his hire there has been a clear lull among the Mean Green faithful.  Part of this is we are in the dreaded "off-season" where Spring is over and we have that long 3-4 month period of anticipation for the new season.

My fear is that he will see this lack of interest as some reflection on him or his staff.  It is most certainly not his fault.  However, to ignore what got us to this point of ambivalence is naive.  We have to learn from history or we are doomed to repeat it.

The apathy seen here on this board and in other places has to do with the past.  A past that included only one winning football season in over a decade.  A past that included a lack of adequate funding, body bag schedules, huge expectations and overall very little success.  Broken promises.  Disappointments.  The fact we have under-performed against many of our counterparts who have lower budgets and less natural resources (location, academics, history, enrollment).  This is not exaggeration, or a desire to gain attention.  It is a cold, hard reality that cannot be ignored.

Some will tell you that we are a demanding lot, one who can never be satisfied.  Crotchety, old guys who are jaded, and unrealistic in their expectations.  They will tell you to forget about us, write us off.  That North Texas' future is where to focus your time and attention on.  New students, alumni and fans that don't bring the baggage of the past.  While that may be true, I would urge you to keep us "old fogies" in mind.  Our apathy - while not your fault - is real.  It is not staged, it is not hyperbole.  It's the culmination of many consecutive years of disappointment.  At one time most of us were very optimistic.  After several unsuccessful restarts, our ability to motivate behind a new regime has become difficult and in some cases impossible.  Too many great fans have faded into obscurity as the years of losing have grown in number.

Others will tell you things have been a lot worse and they have improved.  There is also some truth in this.  Our facilities and salaries were woefully underfunded for far too long.  As of 2011-12, however, most would agree that the completion of beautiful Apogee stadium, moving to a better conference (C-USA) and more competitive coaching salaries put us in a place where on paper we can and SHOULD succeed.  You are in a better position than most of your predecessors in that particular regard.

The current state of our fanbase does not change the fact that all of us hope like hell you can succeed.  We do.  Badly.  Forgive us, but at this point in the game some (not all) of us may need to see some results before we can get back on track.  We need a trend upward for the optimism to rekindle.  We may need to see some competitive, smart football and recruiting before we can start spreading the gospel again.  Our skepticism did not come overnight, but was rather developed over time and in such it will take some time to subside.   We may be less willing to emotionally connect as we were in the past but the embers of that passion are still there...they just need to be stoked. 

Here's the good news.  North Texas fans are extremely loyal and will come back..  Show us promise, and effort and we will be your best friend.  Show us winning and you will see faces in the stands who have not been here in a long time.  We will share the success with everyone we come in contact to and sing your praises.  We just need your help to get us to "Believe in the Mean Green" again.  And yes, Sept 3rd is absolutely a good day to start turning this ship around.   GMG

Great post, Harry.  Yes, I suppose many fans will come back, but to what end?  We have squandered the last 10 years with one bad hire after another and what has it gotten us?  Scorn, ridicule, laughter, contemp.  While others (Houston) have positioned themselves to at least be in the conversation for P5 expansion, we sit here with our pathetic leadership and settle to be the laughing stock in all major sports. Why?  Why should any of us old guard spend any more of our time, money and emotion if our "leadership" is content with the current culture of losing? I hope to hell that SL is successful and brings at least some respectability back to Denton. However, I feel it is now too late for us to be anything more than what we are. Insignificant. It's a down right shame and I, for one, have been kicked in the nuts too many times to care anymore.  I'll watch with a passing interest, but no more season tickets and no more MGC.  Enough is enough. Screw RV, screw the BOR and screw the Prez for allowing this to happen.

[mgfan]

I don't see why I should come back until administration changes or results change. Sadly, my seats will be there. They are not high in demand. 

[Silent Eagle]

Remember, it's not the bitching that goes on that should alarm anyone.  "If a (insert military junior enlisted warrior military affiliation) isn't bitching, they're not happy- when they go quiet you should beware the incoming mutiny ". 

Vocalization of malaise is fine and shows people still give a damn. 

[Ben Gooding]

It's all just meh at this point. The problem is clear as day. Nothing is being done. I'll be a GA attendee this year for some of the home games. No mas tickets or money. It's disheartening and ain't nobody got time for that. 

[GrandGreen]

Thanks Harry, a great article.

The truth hurts and the history of major sports at NT is truly dismal.  

There are a myriad of reasons for the poor performance history.  The good thing is that most have been relatively recently addressed; facilities, a conference with a Texas presence, and competitive budgets.  This gives me hope.

In football, only Mac had the tools to be competitive with most G5 schools.  Mac was a failure and I can't understand how anyone can defend his lack of success.  It was not culture, apathy or anything else but poor performance; he took over a bad program and made it worse with resources his predecessors could only dream about.   

Until proven different, I think this is the failure of one head coach.   Not a systemic failure of NT, but one coach who could not cut it.  Recruiting is the obvious key, and despite what some think that can be turned over relatively quickly.  NT or any other G5 school is going to get more than an occasional player with P5 interest, but there is no reason that NT can't move quickly up within the G5's. 

Edited April 30, 2016 by GrandGreen