10 things from the 2016 UNT Spring scrimmage

[Harry]

1).  I was pleasantly surprised with the turnout.  I was shocked to see the parking lots mostly full.  We ended up having to park in the Victory lot.  I do think there were some other events going on, perhaps a softball game etc that contributed to this.  My point is they had the greek letters out, there was some limited tailgating and a pretty decent group walking up.  It was a nice day, hot in the sun and many of the fans took to the upper level seats which remained in the shade.  The Talons managed the canon very effectively and it was damn loud.  Plenty of concessions open, no lines, no nazi attendants managing the aisles.  Everything in terms of the game presentation was first rate.

2).  I thought it was a fairly tough day for Morris at QB.  He didn't seem to ever get a good rhythm.  He stayed in the pocket a long time and had some issues when the option 1 receiver was covered up.  I just felt like all of the QB's with the exception of Shanbour were taking way too long to get rid of the ball.  Part of this is a byproduct of the fact they are wearing red  jerseys and can't be hit.  I think it really psychologically affects the play in scrimmages like this.  Honestly, I would give Morris a C+ today.  He clearly has the tools above and beyond every other QB we have.  The defense today was surprisingly aggressive with multiple looks and blitzes and it definitely caused Morris to struggle at times.  The good news is this is exactly what he will face against SMU and every team we play this season so it's a good thing to let him experience this and work on it in the offseason.

3). In terms of the other QB's I really though Shanbour had the best day of all of the QB's.  He surprised me with his speed on a couple of keepers.  His release is the fastest we have had at the position.  He is small (listed at 6-0 probably 5-10) but good feet and has a nice zing to his ball.  I really don't see Chumley and Means factoring in for us at this position.  You need 4 QB's, and these guys have given their best but I do not see them being able to help us.  Morris got the lionshare of the reps with Shanbour well behind him and frankly Means and Chumley received very few. I did not see them do much with the few they got.  I think that Chumley needs to change positions, and perhaps Means as well, although Means may decide to go somewhere where he can play.  I say that wanting the best for him because he is a great kid.  I certainly would welcome him to stay if he wants to get his degree at UNT or could perhaps play another position. 

4).  I was struck at the overall lack of numbers we had on the field.  Yes, I know we have 20+ coming in the Fall, but it just seems like this program is paper think at some key positions, namely QB.  We need more QB's and fast.  I can't help but think they are wooing a graduate transfer as I type this.  If Morris doesn't work out, or gets injured, we have an adequate journeyman who sat out last season with an injury and has never played in a college game and that is about it.  Still better than last season (ouch) but not at all where Littrell wants thing thing to be.

5). On the good side of things, I think our defensive secondary could be pretty good.  McClain really stood out to me today.  He looks like a man among boys.  I also saw some real nice things from Ozougwu the lean defensive end who grey shirted.  He needs more size and that will come in time, but he is extremely quick and was very hard to block.  I also thought Muenster Monster Andy Flusche was very active and successful today.  I loved the 3-3-5 and attack mentality of the defense.  They had the offense on their heels all day long with blitzes from every direction.  I also like the juco defensive end Joshua Wheeler.  He seems like he could help us.  Good size and speed.  I also think Jareid Combs could provide an impact. 

6). As much as I liked the overall defense, I think we are average at linebacker and d-line overall though.  I ran into Booger Kennedy at the game and couldn't help but think, what name players do we have?  There are no Boogers or Adrian Awasomes or Jonas Buckles or Craig Jones or Marcus Trice's or Zach Orr's... hopefully these will develop.  Depth is a concern.  I saw a fair amount of walk-ons at the linebacker spot today.  Of course help is on the way.  My hope is that our aggressive scheme will help us play up as we work to develop our players and bring in more talent.  Final thought, I do not think that we will have to suffer through watching our defense die by a thousand cuts as it seemed in the last two years.  We will be aggressive and take chances.

7). Field goal kicker Trevor Moore got a fair amount of work and he looks pretty solid.  Not a huge leg but very consistent.  He missed one barely but other than that I thought he looked very good.  That could pay dividends in some close games this year.  Sam Rice looks like he will be very solid at center although he did have a few high snaps.  I really like the young lineman Elex Woodworth... he looks like a legit D-1 body and moves very well.  I felt a little bad for big Jordan Murray who is behind Tech transfer Trey Kennan at tackle.  But you can see why.  Keenan is undersized at 270 but he is quick.  The line has huge splits compared to the Mac days when they were shoulder to shoulder.  Keenan is quicker off the ball and moves his feet faster once he connects with a defender.  These are things big Jordie can work on and he's still so very young.

8).  #27 WR Derris Praeter is a walk on but may have a little something.  Tee Goree made some nice plays and seems to be excelling in this system.  We are not near deep enough at running back, but I did like what I saw out of Southlake's AJ Ezzard.  He has good speed and determination with the ball. My favorite receiver of the day was freshman tight end Kelvin Smith as he was a favorite target of Morris.  I really shouldn't call him a tight end as he lines up more like an H-back or split out.  He just seems to have that "it".  He wants the ball and he seems to step up his game when the lights are on.  A very nice pickup. 

9).  Littrell's coaching style is interesting.  He really delegates all of the direct interaction with the players through his assistants.  For instance, at the start of the scrimmage, it was Graham Harrell out in the circle of players in the middle of the field barking out instructions and firing everyone up.  Littrell would stand directly behind the defense, with his eyes directly at the center of the line.  It seems like he is allowing his assistants to develop a relationship with their players out of respect for their abilities and is constantly assessing things in a Macro way.  In a weird way, he sort of reminds me of Tom Landry... very stoic, analytical  and focused.  He stands and soaks it in.  The main movement and interaction he had would be at 4th downs when he would let the officials and coaches know where he wanted the ball and whether he wante dthe 1st or 2nd teams in.   You don't see the Mac pacing up and down the field.   He doesn't do the Dickey whistle spin. He doesn't do the Dodge arm band and hand signals.   He doesn't scream out things or say a whole lot.  The positive effect is that when he does speak it gets noticed.  I did see him low five a player after a good play once.  Perhaps this will change in time, but these were my impressions from today.

10).  Interesting note, there was a mix tape of just about every kind of music you could think of... I mean I heard a lot of Rap, Van Halen, Pop... country.. anyway it seems to be a LIttrell trademark, because the music played through the entire scrimmage over the stadium loud speakers.  I had seen that at the practices as well, but I found it interesting to have the announcer announcing over this steady steam of music.  It wasn't too loud though.  Actually I think I like it.  It sort of gives a rhythm to a somewhat monotonous stop and start scrimmage.  I also saw a fair amount of recruits and high school coaches at the game which is a positive thing.  Overall a fun day.  gmg

[bstnsportsfan3]

I felt like morris was throwing off his back foot alot. He had a couple of nice throws but he also under threw several recievers. His short accuracy was spot on. Hopefully he can fix some things by august. Overall pretty good scrimmage and was just fun to watch some football again.

[oldguystudent]

I didn't go.  I was available to do so, but just couldn't motivate myself.  I find the silence on the board this evening deafening. 

I watched a few minutes of the stream well after the game and agree with assessments that it kinda looks like Dodgeball 2.0.  

I understand that Mac left us pretty much nothing (ah, ye olde timey empty cupboards argument), and that this year will probably be pretty painful.

But overall, the class warfare among the fan base has really turned me off as of late. These are entertainment dollars for me, and I'm not having fun.

Finally, after receiving my email about club access only yesterday, I didn't want to set myself up for frustration by dealing with that getting screwed up too.

Edited April 24, 2016 by oldguystudent

[Harry]

4 minutes ago, bstnsportsfan3 said:

I felt like morris was throwing off his back foot alot. He had a couple of nice throws but he also under threw several recievers. His short accuracy was spot on. Hopefully he can fix some things by august. Overall pretty good scrimmage and was just fun to watch some football again.

I think that is a fair assessment.  Let me say from watching him at practice, he can be a lot better than he looked at times today.  He is still today a step up from what we have had talent-wise and that's a big positive.  I also think we could see Shanbour develop into a decent back-up.  Still need more depth at QB especially when you factor in Morris has but one season in green.

[Ben Gooding]

18 minutes ago, Harry said:

I think that is a fair assessment.  Let me say from watching him at practice, he can be a lot better than he looked at times today.  He is still today a step up from what we have had talent-wise and that's a big positive.  I also think we could see Shanbour develop into a decent back-up.  Still need more depth at QB especially when you factor in Morris has but one season in green.

I semi agree with this. But if Shanbour gives us the BEST chance to win regardless of being a walk-on, play the kid. Reminds me of pro sports, play the highly paid players even though they are sucking it up, but they're highly paid nevertheless. 

Also to note from your previous observation...

*Littrell does do the whistle spin. (He may be putting off that Landry effect bc he's still developing into being a head coach. His awkwardness in front of a microphone kind of reinforces that) 

*Moore was 7/8 on all kicks today. His one miss was a right hash 53 yder that missed by about 2-3 yds. I've seen him drill those in the past though. 

*K Smith was Shanbour's favorite target, not Morris'. Though it really needs to be. 

Another little note, it's surprising how sloppy Morris is with the ball being that he played under Saban for 4 years. He sticks on recievers too easily and can be indecisive at times. Like Bama fans have said about him, deadly accurate in the short-intermediate game but not to much beyond. That held true today. 

[Green Crazy]

They said a few weeks back that Keenan is 295 now.

[Ben Gooding]

1 minute ago, Green Crazy said:

They said a few weeks back that Keenan is 295 now.

Jordan Murray needs a spot on that line. What I saw today needs help. The run blocking was absolutely atrocious. I know Murray is tall, but if his feet aren't quick enough at tackle, hrow him in at a guard spot. IMHO, he has to be on the field. We're going to take bumps this year and he is young. Let him develop into the player you want him to be on the field while the team as a whole is taking their licks. JMO. 

[cjones]

Well I went to my first Spring Game drove up from Houston and it was well worth it.  I hadn't been back to campus for 19 years and was impressed with the new stadium!  

I met Jeffrey Wilson's Dad and watched the game with him and his family.  Very nice man!  Said Jeffrey loves UNT and the new staff.  Don't know if this is old news but he said that Willie Ivery is dealing with grade issues and hopefully will be ok for the Fall.

Is it me or does Shanbour remind you of a poor man's Major Applewhite?  Undersized gutsy kid.  I just worry about the poor kid getting killed out there! I like what I saw out of him.

Tee Goree looked like a number one receiver! After that um not that much.  The walk on WR Prater has some potential there.  run after the catch on his TD was nice!  Walk on Connor Davis had some nice plays.  Looks like Kenny Buyers still has some work to do at WR but there is something there to work with. Kelvin Smith showed me something after a tough miss down the middle early came back with two stellar TD grabs.  The one over the defenders helmet was OUTSTANDING!

 

The OL is definitely a work in progress.  Murray needs to sit just not quick enough yet.  

Chumley is not a QB.   Not good at all. Mason Fine hasn't put a foot on campus yet and I list him at #3 already.

When the QB had time the long touchdown pass to Rutherford was good to see!

On Defense Joseph Ozougwu really got my attention!  Nice pass rush ability from the outside.  OT's could not stay with the kid.  Now when he twisted to the inside on stunts got jammed up due to his slight frame.  But he was exciting to watch!  Courtney Finney looked good on the pass rush and in coverage.  Fred Scott had a nice game in the middle hit it up the middle in run support and had a nice tipped pass in coverage.  Kishawn McClain was his usual awesome self.  

As we all are saying the lack of depth is VERY noticable.  Just grin and bare it and know more is on the way.  Will take some time.

Did you see Andy Flusche take a fake selfie with another defender after his sack?  I had a chuckle when I saw that but please don't do that in a real game!

For those who want to know, those that did not dress were Jarrian Roberts(still on crutches and boot), Brandon Garner was in a boot, Daniel Kahn right elbow brace, Fernandez, Munden, Wells were all out as well

 

[TheReal_jayD]

2 hours ago, Ben Gooding said:

I semi agree with this. But if Shanbour gives us the BEST chance to win regardless of being a walk-on, play the kid. Reminds me of pro sports, play the highly paid players even though they are sucking it up, but they're highly paid nevertheless. 

 

i thought Shanbour looked good and really impressed me. He has a strong arm and quick release for a little guy. But its hard for me to say he gives us the best shot. You have to take into account he was playing against the 2nd team defense today also and that makes a difference.  

[untcampbell]

Did anyone get a name on WR number 4? He caught a TD, if I recall, and his name remained unknown to us all.

GMG

[TreeFiddy]

Just now, untcampbell said:

Did anyone get a name on WR number 4? He caught a TD, if I recall, and his name remained unknown to us all.

GMG

Turner Smiley was wearing #4 today.

[Mean Green 93-98]

4 is Kidsy, right?

[untcampbell]

I don't think KIdsy is on the team currently.

GMG

[Mean Green 93-98]

1 minute ago, untcampbell said:

I don't think KIdsy is on the team currently.

GMG

Oh yeah, right.  I forgot about that little incident.

[cjones]

PA Announcer said 4 was Smiley

[untcampbell]

So the roster was wrong? Smiley is 1 on the roster. 

BTW, I can remember years when looking for players on the roster at Spring game was a scramble before the next play started. Today, it was a very easy roster read...80 listed, including English. With the 6 or so that are out with injury, Ivery out for grades, etc, we have under 75 active currently.

GMG

[Ben Gooding]

1 hour ago, TheReal_jayD said:

i thought Shanbour looked good and really impressed me. He has a strong arm and quick release for a little guy. But its hard for me to say he gives us the best shot. You have to take into account he was playing against the 2nd team defense today also and that makes a difference.  

I agree. Not saying Shanbour gives us the best chance, but if he does they gotta play him. My confidence in Morris weakened a little bit today, but that doesn't mean he won't be QB1. Vito has crowned Morris the starter ad nauseam and maybe for good reasom. All I'm saying is MAYBE not so fast. 

[NeonGreen]

1 hour ago, TheReal_jayD said:

i thought Shanbour looked good and really impressed me. He has a strong arm and quick release for a little guy. But its hard for me to say he gives us the best shot. You have to take into account he was playing against the 2nd team defense today also and that makes a difference.  

He also had only the 2nd team O to work with. So the fact he went against the 2nd team D is a wash in my opinion. For example, what surprised me was his ability to pick up the numerous "ground balls," hiked to him while in the shotgun and still read the D and complete the pass. 

[foutsrouts]

Just now, Ben Gooding said:

Jordan Murray needs a spot on that line. What I saw today needs help. The run blocking was absolutely atrocious. I know Murray is tall, but if his feet aren't quick enough at tackle, hrow him in at a guard spot. IMHO, he has to be on the field. We're going to take bumps this year and he is young. Let him develop into the player you want him to be on the field while the team as a whole is taking their licks. JMO. 

That has concerned me too. Hope he has a productive summer.

Just now, cjones said:

jIs it me or does Shanbour remind you of a poor man's Major Applewhite?  Undersized gutsy kid.  I just worry about the poor kid getting killed out there! I like what I saw out of him.

 

He's short but looks pretty stout, which can make all the difference if he's good at slipping punches. Applewhite looked pretty frail if memory serves. Just hope that Shanbour doesn't have to tuck and run in real time as much as he did today.

[UNTexas]

FYI to everyone, Spring ball is a brother in law match up. Sorry...

[Cerebus]

12 hours ago, Harry said:

 I was shocked to see the parking lots mostly full.  

Students who live in Victory didn't have to leave the lot like they do for game day.  Saw several students walk to/from those cars and the dorm.  

 

12 hours ago, Harry said:

Overall a fun day.  gmg

A day with football is always better than a day without.  I also got a sweet HoD Bowl jacket at the garage sale.  Overall enjoyable day, wish the offense had looked better.  

 

 

[JesseMartin]

Glad to hear the good reviews of Shanbour...I've been intrigued by him for the, what, 2+ years he's been with the team?  We keep hearing these awesome reviews of his practice and Spring Game performances, yet never see him hit the field and I'm curious as to why.  Makes me wonder if he was a byproduct of the Mini Mac favoritism as well and perhaps should have gotten some PT over the past season or two, especially after putting in the time outside of practice and camp to be a better QB.  So I would kind of like to see what he has to offer in a live playing situation.  If he really is as good live as everyone says he is in practices and scrimmages, that is.

[Ben Gooding]

35 minutes ago, JesseMartin said:

Glad to hear the good reviews of Shanbour...I've been intrigued by him for the, what, 2+ years he's been with the team?  We keep hearing these awesome reviews of his practice and Spring Game performances, yet never see him hit the field and I'm curious as to why.  Makes me wonder if he was a byproduct of the Mini Mac favoritism as well and perhaps should have gotten some PT over the past season or two, especially after putting in the time outside of practice and camp to be a better QB.  So I would kind of like to see what he has to offer in a live playing situation.  If he really is as good live as everyone says he is in practices and scrimmages, that is.

I think people attach to him because he's an underdog story. He's an undersized, walk-on football player playing QB. Though good in some areas, he has issues in others. He had 3 or 4 balls batted at the LOS yesterday against 2nd team D. Though this can't be proven due to 0 playing time, but I would say he is an injury prone player waiting to happen. He has a little bit of wheels on him that he seemingly likes to use and that will not bode well for him on just one bad decision cut-back. Just looking at him I would say he's 5'10" 190lbs. IF they are going to use him they will need to over-utilize RB's and TE's in the passing game. Dump offs/flat throws and big targets are a short QB's best friend.  But, hey, if he gives us the best shot at dub's then throw him out there. Makes no difference to me. Just win. 

Also, Goree needs to put on weight. He looks like he is 1 missed meal away from being in the 160's and he's a Jr off the field. Kind of unacceptable at this point. 

Edited April 24, 2016 by Ben Gooding

[Wag Tag]

11 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

I think people attach to him because he's an underdog story. He's an undersized, walk-on football player playing QB. Though good in some areas, he has issues in others. He had 3 or 4 balls batted at the LOS yesterday against 2nd team D. Though this can't be proven due to 0 playing time, but I would say he is an injury prone player waiting to happen. He has a little bit of wheels on him that he seemingly likes to use and that will not bode well for him on just one bad decision cut-back. Just looking at him I would say he's 5'10" 190lbs. IF they are going to use him they will need to over-utilize RB's and TE's in the passing game. Dump offs/flat throws and big targets are a short QB's best friend.  But, hey, if he gives us the best shot at dub's then throw him out there. Makes no difference to me. Just win. 

Also, Goree needs to put on weight. He looks like he is 1 missed meal away from being in the 160's and he's a Jr off the field. Kind of unacceptable at this point. 

Like that he is the holder on kicks. Could see some nice fakes with his arm and wheels.

[NeonGreen]

11 hours ago, foutsrouts said:

That has concerned me too. Hope he has a productive summer.

He's short but looks pretty stout, which can make all the difference if he's good at slipping punches. Applewhite looked pretty frail if memory serves. Just hope that Shanbour doesn't have to tuck and run in real time as much as he did today.

Actually Shanbour did look thick (running back thick). Although they weren't supposed to hit the QBs, I remember him take some hard hits after releasing the ball and he bounced back up with no ill effects. He looks very compact which is good for durability. He is definitely a dual threat which needs to tuck and run to keep a D honest (i.e. Manziel type pressure). If he gets hurt at least he goes down doing what he does best, running and gunning. Those type of guys do not need to be held back. Unless our O line can improve and keep the pressure off of the QB, Shanbour's legs maybe our best hope utilizing a moving pocket. From what I have seen, we are fortunate to have two different type of QBs, 1 big pocket pro style and a pure dual threat QB, whose arm is just as good as any pro style which is rare in a dual threat QB. Quite frankly, I can see this staff utilizing both given the situation. They (Morris and Shanbour) both bring a unique look that could be effectively utilized in an Air Raid Offense. I like the potential. Let's just hope potential can, for once, turn into reality.