Five observations from the North Texas spring game

[UNT90]

5 hours ago, 97and03 said:

Folks don't buy revisionist history.

Dodge's offense sucked. It was kind of fun to watch at times and moved the ball around a lot between the 20s. But those offenses did NOT score points. And points are the only measure of success for an offense. Everyone remembers the Navy game and equates it with the whole 4 years of offense. Not true.

Year          Rank          Pts/G

2007           79               24.8

2008          103              20.0

2009           67               26.1

2010           85               23.9

 

That is a 4 year average of 23.7. Sorry that is not a success. Well, it has to be good compared to the awful, boring offense of McCarney, right?

For comparison, including last year's 15 pts/g average, Buick 2.0 Coach Mac had a 5 year average of 23.9. So actually, Dodge was worse.

Raise your standards 90!!!  Stop accepting mediocrity!!!1!!!!!1

 

 

You have such a blind hatred of me that you can't read your own numbers. 

Year two of the Dodge offense sucked. The rest of the years were pretty decent, and I expect year one of Dodge to be much better than year one of Littrell. 

Let's compare apples to apples. Why don't you pull up where UNT ranked offensively under Dickey and Mac, both in yards and ppg. I think you would find that Dodge was a GD offensive genius compared to where UNT ranked offensively under the coach immediately before and after him. 

But rage on, brother.

[TIgreen01]

This is definitely not Dodge 2.0.  I was most impressed by the defense yesterday.  Something I would have never said about a Dodge coached team.  They tackled and swarmed to the ball better than they did last year, but as Harry said in his thread, we are not sitting back playing bend don't break defense.  We're up on the line, challenging receivers outside and attacking the QB inside.  We're going to give up huge plays, especially if our depth comes into play.  But we're going to make plays, too.  Defense could be fun to watch, for the first time in a couple years.

 

[outoftown]

3 hours ago, TIgreen01 said:

This is definitely not Dodge 2.0.  I was most impressed by the defense yesterday.  Something I would have never said about a Dodge coached team.  They tackled and swarmed to the ball better than they did last year, but as Harry said in his thread, we are not sitting back playing bend don't break defense.  We're up on the line, challenging receivers outside and attacking the QB inside.  We're going to give up huge plays, especially if our depth comes into play.  But we're going to make plays, too.  Defense could be fun to watch, for the first time in a couple years.

 

So essentially we are gonna do the Baylor thing where the defense doesn't even really try to force the offense to complete 10 successful plays, but instead you have a defense that tries to break the offense in three plays. It can work or really go wrong. At least you don't have to dip too far into your defensive depth that way. But did I mention that it can really go wrong?

[Ben Gooding]

12 minutes ago, outoftown said:

So essentially we are gonna do the Baylor thing where the defense doesn't even really try to force the offense to complete 10 successful plays, but instead you have a defense that tries to break the offense in three plays. It can work or really go wrong. At least you don't have to dip too far into your defensive depth that way. But did I mention that it can really go wrong?

Well, if yesterday is any indication of what to expect...We are going to have 1 part of our game that could be great and that is run defense OR we could have 1 part of our game that could be absolutely awful and that is running the football. That is why Spring Ball is so hard to really dissect. We root for a play that happens, but then 5 seconds later we're all like, "Uh oh, who screwed up though?" 

I expect absolutely nothing after watching the practice yesterday and that may be the scariest pull away from the whole day. I honestly blindly expected Morris to come into CUSA and be very Jeff Driskel-like with his arm ability. After yesterday, I can honestly say that Driskel is head and shoulders better than Morris and I truly don't know what to expect from any 1 player on the entire roster. 

***1 takeaway from yesterday that I did forgot to mention is that Joshua Wheeler looks the part as a hybrid player. He looks like an overweight LB that plays faster than a DE and that is exactly what that position calls for. Also, Taaulo has visually put on more weight. 

Edited April 24, 2016 by Ben Gooding

[97and03]

5 hours ago, UNT90 said:

You have such a blind hatred of me that you can't read your own numbers. 

Year two of the Dodge offense sucked. The rest of the years were pretty decent, and I expect year one of Dodge to be much better than year one of Littrell. 

Let's compare apples to apples. Why don't you pull up where UNT ranked offensively under Dickey and Mac, both in yards and ppg. I think you would find that Dodge was a GD offensive genius compared to where UNT ranked offensively under the coach immediately before and after him. 

But rage on, brother.

I don't have blind hatred of you. I just don't think that you are right all the time and enjoy calling you out when you are wrong. And I did compare Mac's ppg numbers. As I noted they were slightly better. And also yards don't matter.

[UNT90]

1 hour ago, 97and03 said:

I don't have blind hatred of you. I just don't think that you are right all the time and enjoy calling you out when you are wrong. And I did compare Mac's ppg numbers. As I noted they were slightly better. And also yards don't matter.

Now go back and take out the points scored each year by the defensive and special teams. Because you are only using ppg because that helps your argument. I think we all remember how good the defense and special teams were in 2013 for Mac. I think we all remember how terrible the defense was EVERY year of the Dodge regime. 

How about yards per game? 

[TIgreen01]

4 hours ago, outoftown said:

So essentially we are gonna do the Baylor thing where the defense doesn't even really try to force the offense to complete 10 successful plays, but instead you have a defense that tries to break the offense in three plays. It can work or really go wrong. At least you don't have to dip too far into your defensive depth that way. But did I mention that it can really go wrong?

It can and will go wrong.  But we don't have the talent to not take chances.  As Harry said, it's death by a thousand cuts if we play it straight.  Time to let it rip, and live with the consequences.  We're not going to win 6 games next year.  So I'm just glad it looks like the team will be interesting to watch.  I do think we'll steal a couple games that we have no business winning.

[UNT90]

7 minutes ago, TIgreen01 said:

It can and will go wrong.  But we don't have the talent to not take chances.  As Harry said, it's death by a thousand cuts if we play it straight.  Time to let it rip, and live with the consequences.  We're not going to win 6 games next year.  So I'm just glad it looks like the team will be interesting to watch.  I do think we'll steal a couple games that we have no business winning.

This allows you to beat other bad offensive teams but allows you to get lit up by the good ones. 

But it is the best plan, both for this year and years to come.

[Cr1028]

13 hours ago, 97and03 said:

Folks don't buy revisionist history.

Dodge's offense sucked. It was kind of fun to watch at times and moved the ball around a lot between the 20s. But those offenses did NOT score points. And points are the only measure of success for an offense. Everyone remembers the Navy game and equates it with the whole 4 years of offense. Not true.

Year          Rank          Pts/G

2007           79               24.8

2008          103              20.0

2009           67               26.1

2010           85               23.9

 

That is a 4 year average of 23.7. Sorry that is not a success. Well, it has to be good compared to the awful, boring offense of McCarney, right?

For comparison, including last year's 15 pts/g average, Buick 2.0 Coach Mac had a 5 year average of 23.9. So actually, Dodge was worse.

Raise your standards 90!!!  Stop accepting mediocrity!!!1!!!!!1

@UNT90 and I rarely agree but in this case he is correct.

	Pass TD	Rush TD	Total Off. TD	PATs	FGs	Off. PPG
2001	21	13	34	32	9	21.9
2002	8	23	31	25	10	18.5
2003	15	28	43	44	10	25.5
2004	14	21	35	37	14	24.1	Dickey
2005	9	8	17	15	8	12.8	average
2006	9	5	14	13	15	11.8	19.1
2007	21	16	37	34	8	23.3
2008	15	14	29	22	12	19.3	Dodge
2009	15	27	42	35	10	26.4	average
2010	16	17	33	32	15	22.9	23.0
2011	14	19	33	38	8	21.7
2012	14	17	31	28	11	20.6
2013	16	31	47	50	10	27.8	McCarney
2014	13	21	34	39	15	24.0	average
2015	12	7	19	21	9	13.5	21.5

[UNT90]

14 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

@UNT90 and I rarely agree but in this case he is correct.

	Pass TD	Rush TD	Total Off. TD	PATs	FGs	Off. PPG
2001	21	13	34	32	9	21.9
2002	8	23	31	25	10	18.5
2003	15	28	43	44	10	25.5
2004	14	21	35	37	14	24.1	Dickey
2005	9	8	17	15	8	12.8	average
2006	9	5	14	13	15	11.8	19.1
2007	21	16	37	34	8	23.3
2008	15	14	29	22	12	19.3	Dodge
2009	15	27	42	35	10	26.4	average
2010	16	17	33	32	15	22.9	23.0
2011	14	19	33	38	8	21.7
2012	14	17	31	28	11	20.6
2013	16	31	47	50	10	27.8	McCarney
2014	13	21	34	39	15	24.0	average
2015	12	7	19	21	9	13.5	21.5

And while a highly successful 2013 was the exception in Mac's tenure, a highly unsuccessful 2008 was the exception in the Dodge years.

Dodge was a terrible coach, don't get me wrong, but offense wasn't his problem. He probably would have scored even more points if he had reliable special teams (how many field goals/extra points were blocked/missed in his tenure?) or would have incorporated some type of short yardage offense with tight ends when in the red zone. Aside from the 2008 team, none of his team's had much trouble moving between the 20s.

Let's just hope Littrell's red zone offense is MUCH different than Todd Dodge's.

[Ben Gooding]

1 hour ago, TIgreen01 said:

It can and will go wrong.  But we don't have the talent to not take chances.  As Harry said, it's death by a thousand cuts if we play it straight.  Time to let it rip, and live with the consequences.  We're not going to win 6 games next year.  So I'm just glad it looks like the team will be interesting to watch.  I do think we'll steal a couple games that we have no business winning.

if we do this we'll flirt with 6 wins. 

 

Wow, in the last 15 years we didn't really get close to averaging 30 pts a game. Have we ever? I think by philosophy alone we're getting ready to blow a lot of these numbers out of the water. And that alone strikes hope for success. Gotta score points to win. 

Edited April 24, 2016 by Ben Gooding

[Mean Green 93-98]

7 hours ago, 97and03 said:

And also yards don't matter.

You could also say that touchdowns don't matter if the end result is a loss.

What yards do provide is a measure of unrealized potential.  And I think any coach would take a 7-play, 50-yard drive that ends in no points over a 3-and-out.

[Aldo]

On 4/24/2016 at 9:36 PM, UNT90 said:

Well, considering Littrell ran the ball as much as he passed the ball at NC, how about a balanced offense?

Maybe he is comfortable with his running game (shouldn't be with a new blocking scheme),

Littrell's career run/pass has varied over the years. But the rbs were heavily involved in the pass game this scrimmage. I think part may be playbook, but I feel it may also be a reaction to growing pains in this new wide split scheme. Our rbs are good in the pass game, though. Extension of the run game yadda yadda.

Shanbour looked shaky at first, but got into a good rhythm. He had a few designed runs that allowed him to show off that phase of his game. I do appreciate this coaching staff's ability to draw up plays based on personnel. 

While we may not win many more games, I think we are going to have some exciting football that will have us looking forward to 2017.

[97and03]

17 hours ago, Cr1028 said:

@UNT90 and I rarely agree but in this case he is correct.

	Pass TD	Rush TD	Total Off. TD	PATs	FGs	Off. PPG
2001	21	13	34	32	9	21.9
2002	8	23	31	25	10	18.5
2003	15	28	43	44	10	25.5
2004	14	21	35	37	14	24.1	Dickey
2005	9	8	17	15	8	12.8	average
2006	9	5	14	13	15	11.8	19.1
2007	21	16	37	34	8	23.3
2008	15	14	29	22	12	19.3	Dodge
2009	15	27	42	35	10	26.4	average
2010	16	17	33	32	15	22.9	23.0
2011	14	19	33	38	8	21.7
2012	14	17	31	28	11	20.6
2013	16	31	47	50	10	27.8	McCarney
2014	13	21	34	39	15	24.0	average
2015	12	7	19	21	9	13.5	21.5

Numbers are different. I got mine off ESPN stats. Are these good offense stats without defensive/ST scores? Those would be more representative for sure of what the offense did. Thanks for posting.

Even so, I am not sure that these represent success for any of the coaches. 24 points a game in the modern game is pretty pedestrian.

12 hours ago, Mean Green 93-98 said:

You could also say that touchdowns don't matter if the end result is a loss.

What yards do provide is a measure of unrealized potential.  And I think any coach would take a 7-play, 50-yard drive that ends in no points over a 3-and-out.

I agree on the last point. Sustained drives are better than quick 3 and outs for sure. I am not sure I get the unrealized potential argument though. If you get a lot of yards without scoring, then your offensive plan isn't very solid. See the Dodge years.

[oldguystudent]

17 hours ago, UNT90 said:

he had reliable special teams (how many field goals/extra points were blocked/missed in his tenure?)

2008 PAT% was 78.6 (22 of 28)

2009 PAT% was 87.5 (35 of 40)

2008 FG% was 70.6 (12 of 17)

2009 FG% was 66.7 (10 of 15)

The kicking game was just awful, earning the nickname "Knott Good"

Adding to this, how many times did we kick off out of bounds?  I don't know where to even begin to look for those stats.

[UNT90]

47 minutes ago, oldguystudent said:

2008 PAT% was 78.6 (22 of 28)

2009 PAT% was 87.5 (35 of 40)

2008 FG% was 70.6 (12 of 17)

2009 FG% was 66.7 (10 of 15)

The kicking game was just awful, earning the nickname "Knott Good"

Adding to this, how many times did we kick off out of bounds?  I don't know where to even begin to look for those stats.

It's hell being right all the time...

[Cr1028]

23 minutes ago, 97and03 said:

Numbers are different. I got mine off ESPN stats. Are these good offense stats without defensive/ST scores? Those would be more representative for sure of what the offense did. Thanks for posting.

Even so, I am not sure that these represent success for any of the coaches. 24 points a game in the modern game is pretty pedestrian.

I pulled them from the cumulative season statistics on meangreensports.

Updated. Dodge ran the most efficient offense of the 3 coaches here during RV's reign. I am convinced that if injuries hadn't relegated us to putting wide receivers and walk-ons at quarterback in 2010, Dodge likely would've saved his job. He kept improving as did his teams. If he would've had the luxury of a Skladany-type attacking defense and a Tommy Perry-type attacking special teams, we'd have gone bowling under Dodge, easily. The last game Dodge coached for us, he was forced to pit a walk-on wide receiver at quarterback against a kid who started at Mississippi State as a true freshman qb in Wes Carroll who had TY Hilton to throw to. Todge made bad decisions early in his career and that eroded his timetable to improve. He was getting better when the injury bug decimated his team. I wish RV would've never allowed him to bring a HS OC and DC. They destroyed the defense to such a degree that DeLoach couldn't improve it fast enough to save either of their hides.

	Pass TD	Rush TD	Total Off. TD	PATs	FGs	Off. PPG	Total TDs	Non-off TDs	Offense per game			Total Plays	Plays per TD
2001	21	13	34	32	9	21.9	35	1	304.4			773	22.7
2002	8	23	31	25	10	18.5	32	1	284.5			804	25.9
2003	15	28	43	44	10	25.5	46	3	327.5			786	18.3
2004	14	21	35	37	14	24.1	38	3	344.0	Dickey		741	21.2	Dickey
2005	9	8	17	15	8	12.8	19	2	271.9	avg		683	40.2	avg
2006	9	5	14	13	15	11.8	15	1	232.2	294.1		690	49.3	29.6
2007	21	16	37	34	8	23.3	40	3	408.4			934	25.2
2008	15	14	29	22	12	19.3	30	1	363.0	Dodge		884	30.5	Dodge
2009	15	27	42	35	10	26.4	42	0	408.7	avg		833	19.8	avg
2010	16	17	33	32	15	22.9	35	2	375.2	388.8		805	24.4	25.0
2011	14	19	33	38	8	21.7	39	6	341.8			827	25.1
2012	14	17	31	28	11	20.6	31	0	395.9			853	27.5
2013	16	31	47	50	10	27.8	55	8	410.5	McCarney		951	20.2	McCarney
2014	13	21	34	39	15	24	40	6	325.9	avg		803	23.6	avg
2015	12	7	19	21	9	13.5	22	3	320.1	358.8		843	44.4	28.2

 

 

 

[oldguystudent]

I wonder if five years from now, we'll be making revisionist history about Mac and how we could've won a national championship with him only if, if, and if.

[97and03]

2 hours ago, oldguystudent said:

I wonder if five years from now, we'll be making revisionist history about Mac and how we could've won a national championship with him only if, if, and if.

Yes, I am really not understanding the love for Dodge's offense. Even with the better numbers, it isn't good! 

[Aldo]

I think what everyone's feeling is that, if we combine the vision that Dodge had (let's uncreatively call it a high-powered offense), with a coaching staff that could execute that vision, the yardage that we saw is the floor?