Really?!!?!?!!!!

eagle-eye · April 18, 2016

I probably shouldn't weigh in on this thread since I am so new. Some of you warned me--but what the heck, here goes. Please help me to understand the following:

Who are the UNT 17 ? I understand they are major donors. But, why do they care to have 'access' to UNT's athletic programs, if the product on the field/court is so bad? It is not as though venues are sold out. What 'access' or privilege are they receiving? What is their personal connection to the AD?

Next, is that RV quote accurate? I'm seriously asking that. Did he ever clarify or elaborate on it being taken out of context?

Thanks in advance for bringing me up to speed.

untjim1995 · April 18, 2016

55 minutes ago, eagle-eye said:

I probably shouldn't weigh in on this thread since I am so new. Some of you warned me--but what the heck, here goes. Please help me to understand the following:

Who are the UNT 17 ? I understand they are major donors. But, why do they care to have 'access' to UNT's athletic programs, if the product on the field/court is so bad? It is not as though venues are sold out. What 'access' or privilege are they receiving? What is their personal connection to the AD?

Next, is that RV quote accurate? I'm seriously asking that. Did he ever clarify or elaborate on it being taken out of context?

Thanks in advance for bringing me up to speed.

They are 17 wealthy donors who have basically bought the athletic department from the university, after being sold the merits of "ownership" by Rick Villareal, who grants them access to the teams and facilities. He keeps them happy, they keep him employed, and the university stays out of their way so as to not lose their dollars. They think that being a big money donor at UNT is EXACTLY the same as being a BMD at A&M or UT or Tech, even though those schools wouldn't even know these guys names at their places because their giving wouldn't come close to being the top 17. But here, they are.

Edited April 18, 2016 by untjim1995

Aldo · April 18, 2016

44 minutes ago, eagle-eye said:

Who are the UNT 17 ? I understand they are major donors.

It's not an actual number, but rather a symbol. (Like Batman). No one one knows what the actual mysterious - and irrelevant - number is.

45 minutes ago, eagle-eye said:

But, why do they care to have 'access' to UNT's athletic programs, if the product on the field/court is so bad? It is not as though venues are sold out. What 'access' or privilege are they receiving? What is their personal connection to the AD?

This is more of a leap in logic.

The whole thing boils down to the fact that the athletic department has very few minor donors and boosters (smallest number in the state). This may have lead to a dependency on a small group of big donors to get things moving. And because they have been crucial in the development/upgrading of certain facilities (of course much appreciated), while during all this time head coaches are hired and subsequently bought out, certain major failures of the athletic director give the appearance as being overlooked. (one of the worst football programs, very underachieving men's bball, and one of the worst women's bball programs in the nation. Shortcomings prolonged over a period of many many years with no obvious signs of improvement; evidence piling of his inadequacies of identifying the right coaches for the programs, drumming up fan support, and increasing booster and donation dollars - worst in the conference).

This then gives the perception that the athletic director carries the interest of a "minute few" big donors because he's, well, he's still here and we half don't know why.

That, and he is constantly on the defense, deferring any failures to other departed parties.

The DRC has been critical, local ESPN analysts have been critical, one singe-engine plane was pretty adamant about what it thought, everyday fans are tired of it, but I digress.

Harry · April 18, 2016

39 minutes ago, eagle-eye said:

Who are the UNT 17 ? I understand they are major donors. But, why do they care to have 'access' to UNT's athletic programs, if the product on the field/court is so bad? It is not as though venues are sold out. What 'access' or privilege are they receiving? What is their personal connection to the AD?

I think I can answer this part. They are basically the biggest donors we have for athletics at the University right now. Most have given large sums to both athletics and the university in general. As an alum and fan of the University and athletics I am extremely grateful for this group! And it's not just about money. Many have served UNT in important leadership capacities such as the Board of Regents and other key committees. These people care A LOT about UNT. They have given a lot of time and resources to support something I care very much about and for that our fans/student and alumni should be extremely grateful.

Some want to blame the 17 for issues pertaining to athletics -- let me just say I have a big problem with this. It's just not true. Every single one of them wants UNT to succeed in everything they participate in. Why in gods name would they not? Obviously they would like to see a return on their investment. These are smart people who have made millions of dollars in the business world. There are plenty of other universities and organizations who would LOVE to have them. To indicate otherwise is just foolhardy, and being used for an agenda.

To better understand the 17, let me offer you this. Do you realize that the 2+ million dollar buy out of Mac's contract would NEVER HAVE HAPPENED had it not been for the 17? This is the biggest buyout UNT has EVER had on a termination contract by a LOT. In past years, such as with Todd Dodge's 3rd and 4th year, we would just keep a coach in place who we knew was going to fail for financial reasons. This was a big step forward not just financially, but for the culture of the University. When Ernie Kuhne shelled out the money for a practice facility in such a short time, it was basically unchartered ground for UNT. Typically those type of multi million dollar projects took years to approve if ever.

So, to restate, the 17 should be admired and praised by us for their contributions, not blamed or scapegoated for the shortcomings we have had on the field. And I really think it is time to lay off this fine group of people who give so much. God knows, they aren't doing it based on results or they would have much better places to invest their time and resources. No, they just love this university and want to help it become successful.

I hope someday, the 17 becomes 20, or 30 or perhaps even 50 or 100+. Until that day, and for those who comprise the 17 now, I have nothing but the utmost respect and gratitude. As fans, I believe we should embrace and appreciate this group. GMG

MeanGreenTexan · April 18, 2016

24 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

They are 17 wealthy donors who have basically bought the athletic department from the university, after being sold the merits of "ownership" by Rick Villareal, who grants them access to the teams and facilities. He keeps them happy, they keep him employed, and the university stays out of their way so as to not lose their dollars. They think that being a big money donor at UNT is EXACTLY the same as being a BMD at A&M or UT or Tech, even though those schools wouldn't even know these guys names at their places because their giving wouldn't come close to being the top 17. But here, they are.

Stop poo-poo'ing these folks and their gracious donations. Got a bone to pick with Rick Villareal? Go for it. Think the BOR gives less than 2 cents about athletics? Put them in your crosshairs. Think Smatresk cares more about the Frisco Campus than athletics? Grill him.

I'm more than willing to bet that if Rick Villareal were fired tomorrow, Brint, Ernie, 'The Wheel Club', et al., would still donate at their same levels because they love the University like you and I do.

The perks of giving at the level they do are deserved, not to be politicized and held against them.
It wouldn't matter if the greatest schedule-negotiator & coach-finder of all time became the new Athletic Director, these guys would be (and should be) wined-and-dined just the same.

untjim1995 · April 18, 2016

14 minutes ago, Harry said:

I think I can answer this part. They are basically the biggest donors we have for athletics at the University right now. Most have given large sums to both athletics and the university in general. As an alum and fan of the University and athletics I am extremely grateful for this group! And it's not just about money. Many have served UNT in important leadership capacities such as the Board of Regents and other key committees. These people care A LOT about UNT. They have given a lot of time and resources to support something I care very much about and for that our fans/student and alumni should be extremely grateful.

Some want to blame the 17 for issues pertaining to athletics -- let me just say I have a big problem with this. It's just not true. Every single one of them wants UNT to succeed in everything they participate in. Why in gods name would they not? Obviously they would like to see a return on their investment. These are smart people who have made millions of dollars in the business world. There are plenty of other universities and organizations who would LOVE to have them. To indicate otherwise is just foolhardy, and being used for an agenda.

To better understand the 17, let me offer you this. Do you realize that the 2+ million dollar buy out of Mac's contract would NEVER HAVE HAPPENED had it not been for the 17? This is the biggest buyout UNT has EVER had on a termination contract by a LOT. In past years, such as with Todd Dodge's 3rd and 4th year, we would just keep a coach in place who we knew was going to fail for financial reasons. This was a big step forward not just financially, but for the culture of the University. When Ernie Kuhne shelled out the money for a practice facility in such a short time, it was basically unchartered ground for UNT. Typically those type of multi million dollar projects took years to approve if ever.

So, to restate, the 17 should be admired and praised by us for their contributions, not blamed or scapegoated for the shortcomings we have had on the field. And I really think it is time to lay off this fine group of people who give so much. God knows, they aren't doing it based on results or they would have much better places to invest their time and resources. No, they just love this university and want to help it become successful.

I hope someday, the 17 becomes 20, or 30 or perhaps even 50 or 100+. Until that day, and for those who comprise the 17 now, I have nothing but the utmost respect and gratitude. As fans, I believe we should embrace and appreciate this group. GMG

Your third paragraph is right on...they stepped up and bought out Dan McCarney's contract after he led us to the worst loss in modern college football history. That $2 million+ buyout told us all that we should expect that bad contracts will no longer be the reason for keeping bad coaches--then we kept RV as the AD...and then refused to buyout the final year of Tony Benford's disastrous career here.

So, we go back to paragraph two above. If they care about ROI in regards to UNT Athletics, they sure as hell aren't getting anything from a winning standpoint, so it has to be the entertainment standpoint that is giving them the return that would keep the guy in charge in place. And the master entertainer, the man who sold them the bill of goods that they all own now, is RV. Allowing him to be fired would mean that those 17 would have to face the real facts that they were either sold a bag of beans for millions of dollars by RV or that the guy who keeps them entertained through access is gone, meaning that they might lose their privileges. I find that to indicate otherwise is foolhardy or being used for an agenda.

Its broken here at UNT--and the only way it changes is for the leadership of the university from the BOR, Chancellor, and the President to change it. But they won't...

1 minute ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Stop poo-poo'ing these folks and their gracious donations. Got a bone to pick with Rick Villareal? Go for it. Think the BOR gives less than 2 cents about athletics? Put them in your crosshairs. Think Smatresk cares more about the Frisco Campus than athletics? Grill him.

I'm more than willing to bet that if Rick Villareal were fired tomorrow, Brint, Ernie, 'The Wheel Club', et al., would still donate at their same levels because they love the University like you and I do.

The perks of giving at the level they do are deserved, not to be politicized and held against them.
It wouldn't matter if the greatest schedule-negotiator & coach-finder of all time became the new Athletic Director, these guys would be (and should be) wined-and-dined just the same.

I'd be willing to bet we will never find that out anytime soon because RV ain't going anywhere...those 17 people own the athletic department right now. To think anything else is not dealing with the reality of our situation and the history of this place regarding athletics.

If you think otherwise, just know that you are a part of about 1% of the UNT Family that thinks this...and that might be too high. And 98% of that UNT Family doesn't give one rip about our sports anyway.

eagle-eye · April 18, 2016

Thank you untjim1995, Aldo, & Harry for the info-was very helpful. Appreciate you taking the time/effort to help me understand.

As I have said before, I am a new fan of UNT, and hopeful about the future of the football program. I'll be there Saturday--my first experience watching the team, and I hope to make some new friends. GMG!

Edited April 20, 2016 by eagle-eye

SilverEagle · April 18, 2016

20 hours ago, wardly said:

Insanity is repeating the same action expecting a different result. Those in authority don't care if you want a new athletic director or basketball coach. I guess it makes some of us feel good about ourselves to constantly rant about firing Rick Villarrell, but I don't see what it has accomplished. In business if an approach doesn't work you try another one . Perhaps UNT90 and his Son Of might try a different tact.

No it isn't. Psychology Today addressed the much overused quote in an article. The behavior described is more like OCD behavior or "perseveration". But they also point out that the behavior can be looked at as "Perseverance".....you know, "If at first you don't succeed, try, try, again".

So here's how they summed it up....

Quote

So how do you tell the difference? Perseveration feels compulsive, hopeless, helpless, automatic and unsatisfying. There is a desire to stop, but stopping doesn't feel like an option. Perseverance feels like striving toward a noble goal, and whether or not it's reached it there is virtue in the effort.

Perseverance is a strong, valuable quality. Perseveration is a troubling issue needing clinical attention. Don't let a quaint saying blur this distinction

And BTW, there is no clinical DSM III definition of "insanity". "Insanity" is really a legal term.

MeanGreenTexan · April 18, 2016

4 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

I'd be willing to bet we will never find that out anytime soon because RV ain't going anywhere...those 17 people own the athletic department right now. To think anything else is not dealing with the reality of our situation and the history of this place regarding athletics.

If you think otherwise, just know that you are a part of about 1% of the UNT Family that thinks this...and that might be too high. And 98% of that UNT Family doesn't give one rip about our sports anyway.

The tone I gather from this is as if Rick Villareal's facade is more important to these wealthy donors than the success of the University. Also, these donors are more interested in the perks they get than successful athletics?

Is that what you're saying?
Rick Villareal is a puppet for the North Texas Cosa Nostra?

Ben Gooding · April 18, 2016

31 minutes ago, Harry said:

I think I can answer this part. They are basically the biggest donors we have for athletics at the University right now. Most have given large sums to both athletics and the university in general. As an alum and fan of the University and athletics I am extremely grateful for this group! And it's not just about money. Many have served UNT in important leadership capacities such as the Board of Regents and other key committees. These people care A LOT about UNT. They have given a lot of time and resources to support something I care very much about and for that our fans/student and alumni should be extremely grateful.

Some want to blame the 17 for issues pertaining to athletics -- let me just say I have a big problem with this. It's just not true. Every single one of them wants UNT to succeed in everything they participate in. Why in gods name would they not? Obviously they would like to see a return on their investment. These are smart people who have made millions of dollars in the business world. There are plenty of other universities and organizations who would LOVE to have them. To indicate otherwise is just foolhardy, and being used for an agenda.

To better understand the 17, let me offer you this. Do you realize that the 2+ million dollar buy out of Mac's contract would NEVER HAVE HAPPENED had it not been for the 17? This is the biggest buyout UNT has EVER had on a termination contract by a LOT. In past years, such as with Todd Dodge's 3rd and 4th year, we would just keep a coach in place who we knew was going to fail for financial reasons. This was a big step forward not just financially, but for the culture of the University. When Ernie Kuhne shelled out the money for a practice facility in such a short time, it was basically unchartered ground for UNT. Typically those type of multi million dollar projects took years to approve if ever.

So, to restate, the 17 should be admired and praised by us for their contributions, not blamed or scapegoated for the shortcomings we have had on the field. And I really think it is time to lay off this fine group of people who give so much. God knows, they aren't doing it based on results or they would have much better places to invest their time and resources. No, they just love this university and want to help it become successful.

I hope someday, the 17 becomes 20, or 30 or perhaps even 50 or 100+. Until that day, and for those who comprise the 17 now, I have nothing but the utmost respect and gratitude. As fans, I believe we should embrace and appreciate this group. GMG

I can't agree with any of this. The "17" or SOMEONE is enabling RV and I'm not thankful for that at all.

untjim1995 · April 18, 2016

2 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

The tone I gather from this is as if Rick Villareal's facade is more important to these wealthy donors than the success of the University. Also, these donors are more interested in the perks they get than successful athletics?

Is that what you're saying?
Rick Villareal is a puppet for the North Texas Cosa Nostra?

Ding!! Ding!! Ding!!!

SilverEagle · April 18, 2016

40 minutes ago, Harry said:

I think I can answer this part. They are basically the biggest donors we have for athletics at the University right now. Most have given large sums to both athletics and the university in general. As an alum and fan of the University and athletics I am extremely grateful for this group! And it's not just about money. Many have served UNT in important leadership capacities such as the Board of Regents and other key committees. These people care A LOT about UNT. They have given a lot of time and resources to support something I care very much about and for that our fans/student and alumni should be extremely grateful.

Some want to blame the 17 for issues pertaining to athletics -- let me just say I have a big problem with this. It's just not true. Every single one of them wants UNT to succeed in everything they participate in. Why in gods name would they not? Obviously they would like to see a return on their investment. These are smart people who have made millions of dollars in the business world. There are plenty of other universities and organizations who would LOVE to have them. To indicate otherwise is just foolhardy, and being used for an agenda.

To better understand the 17, let me offer you this. Do you realize that the 2+ million dollar buy out of Mac's contract would NEVER HAVE HAPPENED had it not been for the 17? This is the biggest buyout UNT has EVER had on a termination contract by a LOT. In past years, such as with Todd Dodge's 3rd and 4th year, we would just keep a coach in place who we knew was going to fail for financial reasons. This was a big step forward not just financially, but for the culture of the University. When Ernie Kuhne shelled out the money for a practice facility in such a short time, it was basically unchartered ground for UNT. Typically those type of multi million dollar projects took years to approve if ever.

So, to restate, the 17 should be admired and praised by us for their contributions, not blamed or scapegoated for the shortcomings we have had on the field. And I really think it is time to lay off this fine group of people who give so much. God knows, they aren't doing it based on results or they would have much better places to invest their time and resources. No, they just love this university and want to help it become successful.

I hope someday, the 17 becomes 20, or 30 or perhaps even 50 or 100+. Until that day, and for those who comprise the 17 now, I have nothing but the utmost respect and gratitude. As fans, I believe we should embrace and appreciate this group. GMG

Well, if they all truly made their great wealth in the business world, then they obviously don't regard athletics as being any sort of business enterprise. AND they must have hired and fired much different managers than RV on their way to achieving their great wealth.

Either that, or they are all suffering from some sort of "group Alzheimers" regarding following the outcome based business model.

UNT90 · April 18, 2016

41 minutes ago, Harry said:

I think I can answer this part. They are basically the biggest donors we have for athletics at the University right now. Most have given large sums to both athletics and the university in general. As an alum and fan of the University and athletics I am extremely grateful for this group! And it's not just about money. Many have served UNT in important leadership capacities such as the Board of Regents and other key committees. These people care A LOT about UNT. They have given a lot of time and resources to support something I care very much about and for that our fans/student and alumni should be extremely grateful.

Some want to blame the 17 for issues pertaining to athletics -- let me just say I have a big problem with this. It's just not true. Every single one of them wants UNT to succeed in everything they participate in. Why in gods name would they not? Obviously they would like to see a return on their investment. These are smart people who have made millions of dollars in the business world. There are plenty of other universities and organizations who would LOVE to have them. To indicate otherwise is just foolhardy, and being used for an agenda.

To better understand the 17, let me offer you this. Do you realize that the 2+ million dollar buy out of Mac's contract would NEVER HAVE HAPPENED had it not been for the 17? This is the biggest buyout UNT has EVER had on a termination contract by a LOT. In past years, such as with Todd Dodge's 3rd and 4th year, we would just keep a coach in place who we knew was going to fail for financial reasons. This was a big step forward not just financially, but for the culture of the University. When Ernie Kuhne shelled out the money for a practice facility in such a short time, it was basically unchartered ground for UNT. Typically those type of multi million dollar projects took years to approve if ever.

So, to restate, the 17 should be admired and praised by us for their contributions, not blamed or scapegoated for the shortcomings we have had on the field. And I really think it is time to lay off this fine group of people who give so much. God knows, they aren't doing it based on results or they would have much better places to invest their time and resources. No, they just love this university and want to help it become successful.

I hope someday, the 17 becomes 20, or 30 or perhaps even 50 or 100+. Until that day, and for those who comprise the 17 now, I have nothing but the utmost respect and gratitude. As fans, I believe we should embrace and appreciate this group. GMG

Well, when one of the 17 makes it obviously clear that he cares more about Rick Villarreal than UNT, I think that counters your argument. The 17 number was also introduced by that same individual. It's not necessarily a real number, but something that has come to represent the failure of major donors to do anything about the disaster that is Rick Villarreal.

And I disagree with Harry. I think these people have been personally manipulated by Rick Villarreal, otherwise they would have demanded something be done about a clearly substandard product put on the field by a clearly substandard AD.

And when one of these people used to jump on here and defend RV at every turn, calling his "vision" for UNT athletics just what this university needed, how can this even be argued?

I will agree that we need far, far, far more large donors. But we need them to keep what has happened from happening again. And we will NEVER have that many with Rick Villarreal at AD.

Ever.

untjim1995 · April 18, 2016

I never thought about this before I answered this in a post earlier, but the ROI for the UNT 17 may very well be measured by its "entertainment" value than winning. The ROI may be in getting recognized for building facilities and for funding projects, rather than demanding wins.

Otherwise, there's no way RV keeps his job if winning mattered the most to these people. They are too successful in their business ventures to think they would accept anything less than what they want--in this case, winning must not be the important thing, it must be the entertainment of owning this thing as their own that matters the most.

This is just so very North Texas...

meangreenbob · April 18, 2016

I am very grateful for every one who contributes to UNT Athletics because I love UNT. But please understand wealth doesn't automatically equate to wisdom. What an unfortunate waste of 2.3 million dollars because someone not only lacked the wisdom necessary to make the right hire in the first place but then foolishly executed a unilateral, unfavorable contract extension based on emotions and not actual thought, common sense and logic.

SilverEagle · April 18, 2016

1 minute ago, meangreenbob said:

I am very grateful for every one who contributes to UNT Athletics because I love UNT. But please understand wealth doesn't automatically equate to wisdom. What an unfortunate waste of 2.3 million dollars because someone not only lacked the wisdom necessary to make the right hire in the first place but then foolishly executed a unilateral, unfavorable contract extension based on emotions and not actual thought, common sense and logic.

Well said sir!

Ben Gooding · April 18, 2016

16 minutes ago, meangreenbob said:

I am very grateful for every one who contributes to UNT Athletics because I love UNT. But please understand wealth doesn't automatically equate to wisdom. What an unfortunate waste of 2.3 million dollars because someone not only lacked the wisdom necessary to make the right hire in the first place but then foolishly executed a unilateral, unfavorable contract extension based on emotions and not actual thought, common sense and logic.

Very well said

Wag Tag · April 18, 2016

1 hour ago, Harry said:

I think I can answer this part. They are basically the biggest donors we have for athletics at the University right now. Most have given large sums to both athletics and the university in general. As an alum and fan of the University and athletics I am extremely grateful for this group! And it's not just about money. Many have served UNT in important leadership capacities such as the Board of Regents and other key committees. These people care A LOT about UNT. They have given a lot of time and resources to support something I care very much about and for that our fans/student and alumni should be extremely grateful.

Some want to blame the 17 for issues pertaining to athletics -- let me just say I have a big problem with this. It's just not true. Every single one of them wants UNT to succeed in everything they participate in. Why in gods name would they not? Obviously they would like to see a return on their investment. These are smart people who have made millions of dollars in the business world. There are plenty of other universities and organizations who would LOVE to have them. To indicate otherwise is just foolhardy, and being used for an agenda.

To better understand the 17, let me offer you this. Do you realize that the 2+ million dollar buy out of Mac's contract would NEVER HAVE HAPPENED had it not been for the 17? This is the biggest buyout UNT has EVER had on a termination contract by a LOT. In past years, such as with Todd Dodge's 3rd and 4th year, we would just keep a coach in place who we knew was going to fail for financial reasons. This was a big step forward not just financially, but for the culture of the University. When Ernie Kuhne shelled out the money for a practice facility in such a short time, it was basically unchartered ground for UNT. Typically those type of multi million dollar projects took years to approve if ever.

So, to restate, the 17 should be admired and praised by us for their contributions, not blamed or scapegoated for the shortcomings we have had on the field. And I really think it is time to lay off this fine group of people who give so much. God knows, they aren't doing it based on results or they would have much better places to invest their time and resources. No, they just love this university and want to help it become successful.

I hope someday, the 17 becomes 20, or 30 or perhaps even 50 or 100+. Until that day, and for those who comprise the 17 now, I have nothing but the utmost respect and gratitude. As fans, I believe we should embrace and appreciate this group. GMG

Ah ah well Hell yea! Well stated!

UNT90 · April 18, 2016

30 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

I never thought about this before I answered this in a post earlier, but the ROI for the UNT 17 may very well be measured by its "entertainment" value than winning. The ROI may be in getting recognized for building facilities and for funding projects, rather than demanding wins.

Otherwise, there's no way RV keeps his job if winning mattered the most to these people. They are too successful in their business ventures to think they would accept anything less than what they want--in this case, winning must not be the important thing, it must be the entertainment of owning this thing as their own that matters the most.

This is just so very North Texas...

Don't forget the manipulation technique of "including" them in the decisions that everyone is upset about. That way, they share the blame when failure arrives and have a vested interest in protecting one Rick Villarreal, as they feel they are protecting their own decision making ability.

That's why we continually heard about RV's "vision" even when it was abundantly clear to any sane person that there was no vision for this program.

Ben Gooding · April 18, 2016

7 minutes ago, Wag Tag said:

Ah ah well Hell yea! Well stated!

You're looking at this obviously how Harry looks at it and that's fine, you're entitled to your point of view. It's great that there are a couple handful of well monied alum that actually donate. From a facility and logistical standpoint they are appreciated. The problem that lies is that there could be so, so many more. Also, what is absolutely unacceptable is the decision making in his hires. That is one of the prinary parts of the job and he has missed every single time along the way excluding J Jones and that can honestly be debated (an 8 month old attempting to walk is going to be able to freaking walk eventually. And to note it's the same thing he's doing with Benford). The one's that accept the status quo here right now have probably been accepting and settling with everything in their lives. College athletics has financially exploded since RV took the job here and 15 years later here we are accepting and some do it happily. There is 0 doubt in my mind that a replacement would do a far superior job. Truth be told, the only way to go is up.

And people, quick referring back to a trumped out buyout as some sort of defining moment for UNT and RV. First of all, the buyout should have NEVER happened and neither should the horrible extension. I was unware programs were beating down DM's door. Secondly, a big buyout is NOT a good thing. Only at UNT would people think such. It just solidifies the inept decision making I am referring to.

97and03 · April 18, 2016

I have to admit that I am almost impressed with the new levels of stupid this board has reached.

As long as there are plenty of clicks, right?

Wag Tag · April 18, 2016

1 minute ago, Ben Gooding said:

You're looking at this obviously how Harry looks at it and that's fine, you're entitled to your point of view. It's great that there are a couple handful of well monied alum that actually donate. From a facility and logistical standpoint they are appreciated. The problem that lies is that there could be so, so many more. Also, what is absolutely unacceptable is the decision making in his hires. That is one of the prinary parts of the job and he has missed every single time along the way excluding J Jones and that can honestly be debated (an 8 month old attempting to walk is going to be able to freaking walk eventually. And to note it's the same thing he's doing with Benford). The one's that accept the status quo here right now have probably been accepting and settling with everything in their lives. College athletics has financially exploded since RV took the job here and 15 years later here we are accepting and some do it happily. There is 0 doubt in my mind that a replacement would do a far superior job. Truth be told, the only way to go is up.

And people, quick referring back to a trumped out buyout as some sort of defining moment for UNT and RV. First of all, the buyout should have NEVER happened and neither should the horrible extension. I was unware programs were beating down DM's door. Secondly, a big buyout is NOT a good thing. Only at UNT would people think such. It just solidifies the inept decision making I am referring to.

As stated RV firing is justified! But to hammer people that make donations to the school so RV can keep his job is punk! I guess you thought we should keep MC through his contract? The 17 wanted better and were willing to pay for it would YOU have done it? It is called stepping up! A lot of you guys can't get any response when you talk about RV because most of us agree! So what do you do slam everybody else so you can get some kind of response! Again false claims to support an individual's agenda! Again Bull $h!!!!t

Ben Gooding · April 18, 2016

1 minute ago, Wag Tag said:

As stated RV firing is justified! But to hammer people that make donations to the school so RV can keep his job is punk! I guess you thought we should keep MC through his contract? The 17 wanted better and were willing to pay for it would YOU have done it? It is called stepping up! A lot of you guys can't get any response when you talk about RV because most of us agree! So what do you do slam everybody else so you can get some kind of response! Again false claims to support an individual's agenda! Again Bull $h!!!!t

Kudos to the big monied donors as I have stated. But something is keeping RV in his seat and it sure as heck isn't his performance. So, what is it?

And Lifer, you're a fool.

Dr. Seuss · April 19, 2016

What's worse about RV is the quote right after that...

“One-and-a-half years ago, when we were playing in a New Year’s bowl game no one was calling the athletic director saying ‘great job.’ You understand for most of the time what you’re going to get is the downside. That’s just part of the business.”

Read more here: http://www.star-telegram.com/sports/college/football/article41992233.html#storylink=cpy

You didn't get any calls because we knew you didn't do anything right; Mac extension... I really cant.

UTSA Fan · April 19, 2016

7 hours ago, eagle-eye said:

I probably shouldn't weigh in on this thread since I am so new. Some of you warned me--but what the heck, here goes. Please help me to understand the following:

Who are the UNT 17 ? I understand they are major donors. But, why do they care to have 'access' to UNT's athletic programs, if the product on the field/court is so bad? It is not as though venues are sold out. What 'access' or privilege are they receiving? What is their personal connection to the AD?

Next, is that RV quote accurate? I'm seriously asking that. Did he ever clarify or elaborate on it being taken out of context?

Thanks in advance for bringing me up to speed.

Eagle eye, I will weigh in to give perspective from a neophyte as you are as well. The 17 as far as I can tell are the big money donors running things financially in addition to road P5 games earnings. They appear (I claim no knowledge or experience in this matter) to maintain their cover of stealth in exchange for continued financial support, meaning, protection from some of the more vocal fans input by remaining unidentified. Almost quid pro quo if you will. It appears their numbers are small, thus concentrated, giving them a disproportionately large influence. If there would be, say, 200 large donors, a couple getting pissed off would have a negligible impact. To the point, who they are. A closely guarded piece of information for sure, as those privy to such information keep silent for the perceived benefit of the university. Modern day Knights Templar, the higher education Illuminati. They are ever watching, never recognized, always moving, never seen.

Edited April 19, 2016 by UTSA Fan