MGB: Kirby taking leave of absence, UNT trying Buyers at WR

Harry · April 13, 2016

14 minutes ago, TreeFiddy said:

Maybe his best skill, ability to quickly close on the bubble screen, becomes less valuable when you don't start with a 10+ yard cushion.

Amen!

UNTLifer · April 13, 2016

My thoughts and prayers are also with Kirby and his family. I, too, lost my father at a young age after an extended illness. It is never easy and things still pop up 30+ years later where I wish he were here.

NorthTexan95 · April 13, 2016

9 hours ago, Cr1028 said:

I think you may have nailed it.

Kenny Buyers 5'11" 185lbs Danny Amendola 5'11" 177lbs Wes Welker 5'9" 190lbs

You're not saying ... you're just saying ...

54 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

If Buyers leapfrogs guys like Goree, Smiley, Rutherford, Thompson, Bendy, etc... to see significant PT at WR, then we're not doing well at WR.

That, or it would be another feather in the horribly ugly cap of bad player evaluation for McCarney/Chico.

Sounds like Goree and Rutherford are on the outside which wouldn't be affect Buyers.

I don't think this would be a knock on McCarney/Chico. Buyers could possible ... maybe ... perhaps ... excel in this offense but would be lost in McCarney's offense. Different offenses, different types of receivers needed.

Aldo · April 13, 2016

As others have said, he's not fast, and he gets beat deep on post or crossing routes, or if a player has a full head of steam he won't stop them.

I think this speaks more about his role as a DB in this group, rather than the WRs.

MGNation92 · April 13, 2016

I think with the recent understanding of the defense Ekeler and Reffett want to employ we will see a lot more bump and run coverage than with Skladany/Cosh. Buyers is not a bump and run guy, he would bump and get burned. Brooks and Preston have the ability to make up ground with their speed. If you're gonna play aggressive coverage schemes you have to have the right personnel. Buyers is a soft zone corner 100%. Of course he excelled at Skladany/Cosh's base Cover 2 Zone scheme. It gave him time to read and react. Put him in Cover 1 man or cover 3 and he's gonna be put on an island. No ideal for a guy with less than ideal straight line speed

Cr1028 · April 13, 2016

5 minutes ago, MGNation92 said:

I think with the recent understanding of the defense Ekeler and Reffett want to employ we will see a lot more bump and run coverage than with Skladany/Cosh. Buyers is not a bump and run guy, he would bump and get burned. Brooks and Preston have the ability to make up ground with their speed. If you're gonna play aggressive coverage schemes you have to have the right personnel. Buyers is a soft zone corner 100%. Of course he excelled at Skladany/Cosh's base Cover 2 Zone scheme. It gave him time to read and react. Put him in Cover 1 man or cover 3 and he's gonna be put on an island. No ideal for a guy with less than ideal straight line speed

Please separate Skladany and Cosh by more than a france-hellfest-festival.jpg?quality=55& .

Lebowski's landlord wasn't even in the same league as

MGNation92 · April 13, 2016

Just now, Cr1028 said:

Please separate Skladany and Cosh by more than a .

Lebowski's landlord wasn't even in the same league as

I just meant that they both employed the "Lets sit back 10 yards and hope they can react quickly enough" defense

GMG24 · April 13, 2016

15 hours ago, SilverEagle said:

Buyers at WR? He's certainly capable of playing the position, but are our other prospects just not making any progress?

I think this has more to do with how many WR they want to be able to contribute vs what they have. Buyers is athletic enough to make a catch put some wiggle on and get 5-6 yards after the catch. Everything I have heard he is the most football savy guy on the team. They want 8-10 WR who will play on game days, in this system and the amount of running they'll do they will need some depth.

Ben Gooding · April 13, 2016

7 hours ago, GMG24 said:

I think this has more to do with how many WR they want to be able to contribute vs what they have. Buyers is athletic enough to make a catch put some wiggle on and get 5-6 yards after the catch. Everything I have heard he is the most football savy guy on the team. They want 8-10 WR who will play on game days, in this system and the amount of running they'll do they will need some depth.

I agree with this.

Where will he have the biggest impact for the team. If the staff thinks it is offense then put him there. If they end up thinking the secondary needs experience with minimal coverage skills but experience nonetheless then leave him there. In a change like this I trust this staff over any other staff maybe in CUSA and damn sure the last UNT staff.

Mean Green 93-98 · April 14, 2016

10 hours ago, GMG24 said:

I think this has more to do with how many WR they want to be able to contribute vs what they have. Buyers is athletic enough to make a catch put some wiggle on and get 5-6 yards after the catch. Everything I have heard he is the most football savy guy on the team. They want 8-10 WR who will play on game days, in this system and the amount of running they'll do they will need some depth.

But it's strange to hear that a guy that we all had penciled in as a sure starter on the defensive side of the ball is now relegated to a depth guy on the other side of the ball.

UNTLifer · April 14, 2016

Since I am the one that posted that I thought I had read in the past that he was one of the fastest on the team, and everyone has decided he is not fast, I thought I would provide the following:

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=97420&draftyear=2016&genpos=CB

This lists his fastest 40 at 4.47, his slowest at 4.68 and his 40 time at 4.57. I would consider that fast.

Getting beat deep has nothing to do with how fast he is, and everything to do with a number of factors such as play recognition.

GOMG2013 · April 14, 2016

40 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Since I am the one that posted that I thought I had read in the past that he was one of the fastest on the team, and everyone has decided he is not fast, I thought I would provide the following:

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=97420&draftyear=2016&genpos=CB

This lists his fastest 40 at 4.47, his slowest at 4.68 and his 40 time at 4.57. I would consider that fast.

Getting beat deep has nothing to do with how fast he is, and everything to do with a number of factors such as play recognition.

Draft scout is not accurate. Thats just an estimate until an official time is taken at a comine or pro day. It has 4.65 as the high for Chad Davis. And the last time he ran a time that slow had to be freshman year in high school. No way he ran that while at UNT.

4.69 for jamal marshall as a high. No way. 4.5 as a low. He has consistently been 4.4 while at UNT.

If I had to guess, Buyers is a 4.55 or slower.

MGNation92 · April 14, 2016

11 minutes ago, GOMG2013 said:

Draft scout is not accurate. Thats just an estimate until an official time is taken at a comine or pro day. It has 4.65 as the high for Chad Davis. And the last time he ran a time that slow had to be freshman year in high school. No way he ran that while at UNT.

4.69 for jamal marshall as a high. No way. 4.5 as a low. He has consistently been 4.4 while at UNT.

If I had to guess, Buyers is a 4.55 or slower.

I think with Buyers you look at Amendola and Welker, even a Julian Edelman. None of these successful slot guys will just burn past you. They are quick, shifty, and have the ability to find creases in the defense where they can wiggle for a few extra yards. They are YAC machines. Not guys who average 20 a catch. Straight line speed is not nearly as important as short area quickness in the slot

Edited April 14, 2016 by MGNation92

GOMG2013 · April 14, 2016

6 minutes ago, MGNation92 said:

I think with Buyers you look at Amendola and Welker, even a Julian Edelman. None of these successful slot guys will just burn past you. They are quick, shifty, and have the ability to find creases in the defense where they can wiggle for a few extra yards. They are YAC machines. Not guys who average 20 a catch. Straight line speed is not nearly as important as short area quickness in the slot

I agree.

I would assume he is quick if they are giving him a look. And just because you get beat, does not mean you are not fast. If wrs and rbs are consistently running by you then you may be slow.

A fast DB can be beat if he comes out of his back pedal too late, takes a bad angle, stutter steps, or is in the wrong position. Marshall clocked a 4.4 and ran track, and he got beat.

Zed Evans was a 4.3 guy...Bet Littrell would have found a way to use the little brother. I think Erick Evans. He was also in the 4.3 range.

greenjoe · April 14, 2016

Kenny Byers is the best tackler I've ever seen. Many will disagree. I just hope that if he is moved to the offense that he is replaced by a great defensive playmaker.

Could Byers go both ways ?

GO MEAN GREEN

Cerebus · April 14, 2016

33 minutes ago, greenjoe said:

Could Byers go both ways ?

MGNation92 · April 14, 2016

1 hour ago, GOMG2013 said:

Zed Evans was a 4.3 guy...Bet Littrell would have found a way to use the little brother. I think Erick Evans. He was also in the 4.3 range.

I thought Erick Evans was going to be a stud for us. He could've done great things in this offense

GOMG2013 · April 15, 2016

9 hours ago, greenjoe said:

Kenny Byers is the best tackler I've ever seen. Many will disagree. I just hope that if he is moved to the offense that he is replaced by a great defensive playmaker.

Could Byers go both ways ?

GO MEAN GREEN

When I first read that buyers was getting a "long" look at WR, this came off as another position switch like jamal marshall last spring and he never played.

From what Im hearing, it is very serious. They like nate enough to hold it down and think buyers is a better WR than corner. I personally think Buyers is a decent corner and would be an upgrade from what we had last year. He's at least an average D1 corner. They must really like Buyers at WR. He may have a chance to start.

Can I make Buyers the WR, my sleeper pick?

edcollopy · April 15, 2016

look back at film and you'll see how other teams started to throw deep on him more and more as the season went on a couple of years ago. great tackler but not a consistent corner on long routes. once other teams see that, they'll do it over and over. those bombs are demoralizing for a defense.

greenjoe · April 23, 2016

Fast forward to Saturday, April 23. I'm listening to the spring game. Dave Barnett said, that Coach Littrell said that Kenny Byers might be able to go both ways. Please refer to my earlier mention of the same thing. Just saying'.

GO MEAN GREEN

UNT90 · April 24, 2016

7 hours ago, greenjoe said:

Fast forward to Saturday, April 23. I'm listening to the spring game. Dave Barnett said, that Coach Littrell said that Kenny Byers might be able to go both ways. Please refer to my earlier mention of the same thing. Just saying'.

GO MEAN GREEN

That wouldn't be a good thing.

Ben Gooding · April 24, 2016

7 hours ago, greenjoe said:

Fast forward to Saturday, April 23. I'm listening to the spring game. Dave Barnett said, that Coach Littrell said that Kenny Byers might be able to go both ways. Please refer to my earlier mention of the same thing. Just saying'.

GO MEAN GREEN

I think Buyers is a decent player, but many on here overestimate his ability. He really needs to focus on 1 position.

UNTLifer · April 24, 2016

From reading everyone's observations, I hope Kirby can rejoin the team in August.

GrandGreen · April 24, 2016

People quoting 40 times like they were accurate. There are so many variables and exaggerations in these numbers that they are worthless. According to Texas Football for example every other team high school team has a handful of 4.5 players. There are very few college players that can run legit 4.5 40's and every coach knows this, but they continue the myth.

greenminer · April 24, 2016

3 hours ago, GrandGreen said:

People quoting 40 times like they were accurate. There are so many variables and exaggerations in these numbers that they are worthless. According to Texas Football for example every other team high school team has a handful of 4.5 players. There are very few college players that can run legit 4.5 40's and every coach knows this, but they continue the myth.

In a world with electronic timing, what have you observed/read that leads you to this conclusion?

Edited April 24, 2016 by greenminer