Lee Jackson Retiring

[EagleMBA]

I will wager that only a "minute few" remember dancing to this tribute (mocking) to Mr. Lee when you were much younger. Count me as one of them...oh, and I second Rudy's emotion!

 

[Rudy]

Serious question, has there been anyone more detrimental to the university as a whole, than that ass?

[UNT90]

23 minutes ago, Rudy said:

Serious question, has there been anyone more detrimental to the university as a whole, than that ass?

No.

[drycreek]

30 minutes ago, Rudy said:

Serious question, has there been anyone more detrimental to the university as a whole, than that ass?

no-----glad to see him go/gone

[Ben Gooding]

40 minutes ago, Rudy said:

Serious question, has there been anyone more detrimental to the university as a whole, than that ass?

And the thing that irks me is that it's pretty common information that this is true. So, how in the holy hell was he able to just sit there and collect. It's mind numbing. 

[bloodstunt]

18 hours ago, UNT90 said:

But A&M bought it and promptly discontinued the night program. Go figure.

 

They don't run Harvard Law at night, last time I checked.

[UNT90]

1 hour ago, bloodstunt said:

 

They don't run Harvard Law at night, last time I checked.

Right, cause A&M law is often confused with Harvard.

Stupid.

Lots of good attorneys came from that night program, attorneys who accomplished other things in life before becoming attorneys, which made them better attorneys. Better than even some Harvard grads. 

But it's gone now, and so is the opportunity for others like them. Way to go, A&M.

1 hour ago, Ben Gooding said:

And the thing that irks me is that it's pretty common information that this is true. So, how in the holy hell was he able to just sit there and collect. It's mind numbing. 

Because the state government rarely thinks about or cares about the University of North Texas. UNT is WAY down the list of educational priorities. 

I'd love to see an accomplished (notice I didn't say rich or politically connected) alum appointed as chancellor. Chances that happens at UNT? Less than zero.

EDIT: If UNT were smart, they would start this type of program at the UT-Dallas Law School. They aren't. They won't. 

Edited April 10, 2016 by UNT90

[VideoEagle]

1 hour ago, UNT90 said:

Right, cause A&M law is often confused with Harvard.

Stupid.

Lots of good attorneys came from that night program, attorneys who accomplished other things in life before becoming attorneys, which made them better attorneys. Better than even some Harvard grads. 

But it's gone now, and so is the opportunity for others like them. Way to go, A&M.

Because the state government rarely thinks about or cares about the University of North Texas. UNT is WAY down the list of educational priorities. 

I'd love to see an accomplished (notice I didn't say rich or politically connected) alum appointed as chancellor. Chances that happens at UNT? Less than zero.

EDIT: If UNT were smart, they would start this type of program at the UT-Dallas Law School. They aren't. They won't. 

Yes some very prominant attorneys went to night school. Nt should offer that as an option  and no idea why they don't. 

 

Edit . Tom Luce went to smu law night school. The gal who wrote much of Texas family law did as well. Nothing at all wrong with night school! 

 

Edited April 10, 2016 by VideoEagle

[VideoEagle]

IIRC part of the deal with the Texas Weslyan law school purchase was a requirement  NOT to move it from Ft Worth and Unt's budgeting was going to require any UNT law school to be in Dallas. Or something like that. For some reason i dont remember we couldnt keep it in Ft Worth and thats why we couldnt buy it. At least i think that was the problem. 

[Rudy]

54 minutes ago, VideoEagle said:

Yes some very prominant attorneys went to night school.

 

I bet Dan Fielding went to night school.

[foutsrouts]

2 hours ago, Rudy said:

I bet Dan Fielding went to night school.

Like Joe Jamail, Baylor tobacco lawyers, and probably even Ben Matlock.

[Cr1028]

2 hours ago, VideoEagle said:

IIRC part of the deal with the Texas Weslyan law school purchase was a requirement  NOT to move it from Ft Worth and Unt's budgeting was going to require any UNT law school to be in Dallas. Or something like that. For some reason i dont remember we couldnt keep it in Ft Worth and thats why we couldnt buy it. At least i think that was the problem. 

I don't understand why if we already have a health science center in Fort Worth. The system offices being in Dallas is a huge mistake in my opinion. 

[UNT90]

3 hours ago, VideoEagle said:

IIRC part of the deal with the Texas Weslyan law school purchase was a requirement  NOT to move it from Ft Worth and Unt's budgeting was going to require any UNT law school to be in Dallas. Or something like that. For some reason i dont remember we couldnt keep it in Ft Worth and thats why we couldnt buy it. At least i think that was the problem. 

Wow. Because A&M didn't have that problem...

3 hours ago, Rudy said:

I bet Dan Fielding went to night school.

Some of the best criminal and civil attorneys in Fort Wirth are grads of Weslyan night school. 

[UNT90]

4 hours ago, VideoEagle said:

Yes some very prominant attorneys went to night school. Nt should offer that as an option  and no idea why they don't. 

 

Edit . Tom Luce went to smu law night school. The gal who wrote much of Texas family law did as well. Nothing at all wrong with night school! 

 

It's a market that is wide open in DFW thanks to A&M's decision in Fort Worth. 

It would be a very smart move to fill a need, therefore I think there is little chance UNT does this.

[FirefightnRick]

7 hours ago, VideoEagle said:

IIRC part of the deal with the Texas Weslyan law school purchase was a requirement  NOT to move it from Ft Worth and Unt's budgeting was going to require any UNT law school to be in Dallas. Or something like that. For some reason i dont remember we couldnt keep it in Ft Worth and thats why we couldnt buy it. At least i think that was the problem. 

 

I asked C. Dan and Bobby Ray within 10 days after it was announced that we had been approached by Wesleyan and turned them down.  They never mentioned anything about a location requirement.  According to both men the reason we turned them down was because the brain trust felt the $32 Million asking price was too high.  .

After hearing that I turned around and just shook my head cause I thought that was a hell of a deal considering the school already had accreditation and the downtown facility was nice..(I worked on the sprinkler system inside of the building).   .  

As its turned out we would have saved hundreds of millions had we pulled the trigger back then.

 

Rick

Edited April 11, 2016 by FirefightnRick

[FirefightnRick]

I had the price incorrect earlier and I adjusted it.  Here is a note about it in the Star Telegram from 2003.

http://www.legaled.com/notforsale.htm

 

Quote

 

Texas Wesleyan law school no longer for sale
By Kevin Lyons
Star-Telegram Staff Writer

FORT WORTH - The Texas Wesleyan University law school is no longer for sale.

Officials at Texas Wesleyan had been talking to the University of North Texas and Texas Christian University about selling the downtown law school, which it has owned since 1992. The asking price was thought to be between $31 million and $35 million, according to several sources familiar with the situation.

But at a board meeting last week, Texas Wesleyan trustees voted to stop talking to other universities about a possible sale.

"Our attention, as a board and university community, will now focus on making the school of law an even greater asset within the community," said Harold Jeffcoat, Texas Wesleyan president.

In March, Texas Wesleyan named Frederick Slabach the new dean of the law school. On June 1, Slabach will replace Richard Gershon, who resigned.

Slabach will inherit a law school with about 660 students. It has had full accreditation from the American Bar Association since 1999. During the past five years, applications to the law school have jumped 58 percent, median LSAT scores have risen from 149 to 151, and median undergraduate grade-point averages have jumped from 2.95 to 3.04 on a 4.0 scale, according to Texas Wesleyan 

It costs $18,320 annually to attend the law school, which is the only one in North Texas to offer night classes.

UNT officials have said they will continue to pursue the creation of the region's first public law school, which would cost students about $7,200 a year.

"We believe there is significant support in the region to expand the legal education," said Lee Jackson, chancellor of the UNT System.

 

Rick

Edited April 11, 2016 by FirefightnRick

[oldguystudent]

13 hours ago, Rudy said:

I bet Dan Fielding went to night school.

Now there's a show I wish they'd pick up on Netflix.  It would complete my M*A*S*H/Cheers/Night Court trifecta

[UNT90]

6 hours ago, FirefightnRick said:

I had the price incorrect earlier and I adjusted it.  Here is a note about it in the Star Telegram from 2003.

http://www.legaled.com/notforsale.htm

 

 

Rick

Typical poor decision making by UNT. 

[VideoEagle]

7 hours ago, FirefightnRick said:

I had the price incorrect earlier and I adjusted it.  Here is a note about it in the Star Telegram from 2003.

http://www.legaled.com/notforsale.htm

 

 

Rick

Like I wrote, I didn't remember the exact details. But as this article for the Texas Tribune points out the original deal TWU wanted was more of a merger with joint degree granting and a minimum 40 year lease of the buildings by the "purchaser." The actual purchase price turned out to be $73 million over five years. That's before any salaries of other operating costs. A&M wrote checks for that amount. I think UNT Law started in spaced shared with A&M Commerce in a building for which there was redevelopment grants and special zoning which all lowered the total costs. Plus the NT funds for the building was coming from a different state pot of money than the start up costs for the law school. They cobbled together money from a lot of sources so even though the total is more, there wasn't enough in any one place to fund the law school. I don't see Sen. West devoting his political capital to a Ft Worth project when one of his stated goals was to create a low cost law school easily available to people in his south Dallas area.

I've been told Jackson kept a lot of the NT budget in place back when there was a push to "equalize" the fund of schools a long the Mexican border. "Equalize" you might remember means giving those schools enough money in a few biennium stop make up for the previous 50 years without any increase to the total university budget. The money wasn't originally coming from UT or A&M or Tech, but rather from the "other" schools. 

Lee Jackson was far from perfect, but saying he did nothing is simply wrong.

[Rudy]

3 hours ago, oldguystudent said:

Now there's a show I wish they'd pick up on Netflix.  It would complete my M*A*S*H/Cheers/Night Court trifecta

I've occasionally seen episodes on some obscure channel on DISH

[untjim1995]

5 hours ago, UNT90 said:

Typical poor decision making by UNT. 

For the millionth time, at UNT, its all about known costs...this proves that it isn't just for athletics, either.

Opportunity costs missed on this are in the tens of millions or more by now. But we don't ever look at opportunity costs--only known costs.

[Harry]

2 hours ago, untjim1995 said:

For the millionth time, at UNT, its all about known costs...this proves that it isn't just for athletics, either.

Opportunity costs missed on this are in the tens of millions or more by now. But we don't ever look at opportunity costs--only known costs.

When you have less money you are subject to a higher error rate.  I understand that UNT could have made better hires but I also believe if the administration were to allot more resources we would have been able to hire better candidates.

[Cr1028]

On 4/11/2016 at 1:53 PM, Harry said:

When you have less money you are subject to a higher error rate.  I understand that UNT RV could have made better hires but I also believe if the administration were to allot more resources we would have been able to hire better candidates.

Would the same be true here? You can't make this argument for the administration and then render it nonsense for the athletic department. They are either both accountable to their failures or they are both excused for insufficient resources.

Edited April 12, 2016 by Cr1028

[FirefightnRick]

On April 11, 2016 at 7:36 AM, VideoEagle said:

Like I wrote, I didn't remember the exact details. But as this article for the Texas Tribune points out the original deal TWU wanted.....

I could care less about the 2013 deal A&M made with them.  

The "original" deal TWU wanted in 2003 in regards to North Texas was to unload their law school outright for $32 Million.  They were in dire straights, having funding issues, an even worse image issue due to their campus being located in the epicenter of the murder capital of the city.....(which I called home for 12 years)...and was addressing a small scandal within their administration.  They wanted $32 Million for the law school and NT thought it was too high a price.   

 

Rick

Edited April 13, 2016 by FirefightnRick

[VideoEagle]

6 hours ago, FirefightnRick said:

I could care less about the 2013 deal A&M made with them.  

The "original" deal TWU wanted in 2003 in regards to North Texas was to unload their law school outright for $32 Million.  They were in dire straights, having funding issues, an even worse image issue due to their campus being located in the epicenter of the murder capital of the city.....(which I called home for 12 years)...and was addressing a small scandal within their administration.  They wanted $32 Million for the law school and NT thought it was too high a price.   

 

Rick

Mostly correct, but TWU also wanted the buyer of the law school, either TCU or UNT, to pay TWU a 40 year, $2.5 million lease on the buildings that housed the law school. That would all $100 million to the price over 40 years. The devil is always in the details that the lease was a detail that wasn't well publicized. TWU needed both immediate cash and money to cover buildings they bought and built. The lease was what made the total cost too high for both UNT and TCU. 

When A&M made the eventual purchase, they negotiated the present value of the $100 over 40 years at about 4.25%. That's about $47 million and combined with the $32 price for the school itself you get the $79 million. 

The total deal was never just $25 or $32 million, there was a lease involved.