NT Women=NCAA's most improved shooters

Cr1028 · March 22, 2016

Women's Hoops To Be Awarded NCAA Division I Shooting Award

Great job by Jalie and staff. I think our AD may have gotten this hire right, despite the barrage of sabotage attempts around this board.

Edited March 22, 2016 by Cr1028

Army of Dad · March 22, 2016

15 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

Women's Hoops To Be Awarded NCAA Division I Shooting Award

Great job by Jalie and staff. I think our AD may have gotten this hire right, despite the barrage of sabotage attempts around this board.

I agree, early returns are promising.

I disagree that this board is the obstacle that must be overcome for coaches to be successful at UNT.

Cr1028 · March 22, 2016

1 hour ago, Army of Dad said:

I agree, early returns are promising.

I disagree that this board is the obstacle that must be overcome for coaches to be successful at UNT.

2 good points. I probably stated the sabotage part poorly. Just the attitude around here makes it seem like no NT coach has the potential to be successful simply because of who hired them.

On an unrelated note, I found a video of @UNT90 from his days rooting for/against Cleveland.

Edited March 22, 2016 by Cr1028

UNT90 · March 22, 2016

Just now, Cr1028 said:

Just the attitude around here makes it seem like no NT coach has the potential to be successful simply because of who hired them.

No major sport coach has been in the last 14 years of Rick Villarreal's tenure.

Its not an attitude, it's reality.

I feel sorry for Seth Littrell.

Army of Dad · March 22, 2016

Just now, Cr1028 said:

2 good points. I probably stated the sabotage part poorly. Just the attitude around here makes it seem like no NT coach has the potential to be successful simply because of who hired them.

Well, there is ample evidence that suggests bolded portion is true.

(note: that is not a "fixed" quote)

Cr1028 · March 22, 2016

McCarney had one of the most successful seasons in NT history before putting relationships above the good of the team. Johnny Jones was successful before getting his dream job. Karen Aston had a great one-year turnaround before heading to her dream job. I'm saying that although it isn't the norm, coaches can have success here in spite of the sweater vest.

UNT90 · March 22, 2016

2 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

McCarney had one of the most successful seasons in NT history before putting relationships above the good of the team. Johnny Jones was successful before getting his dream job. Karen Aston had a great one-year turnaround before heading to her dream job. I'm saying that although it isn't the norm, coaches can have success here in spite of the sweater vest.

If you call an 8-4 season, no west title, no conference title, a crappy bowl opponent achieved in one of the last 10 years, with the other 9 years being losing seasons with 4 losing seasons with 3 wins or less; if you call Aston's "turnaround" season being .500 then getting the F away from the swear eat as fast as she could (and remember,she contacted sweatervest about the job, not vice versa), then I guess you have a point.

JJ was the lone coach that came anywhere close to sustaining success, and the sweatervest immediately destroyed that success upon JJ's departure and has refused to fix it out of foolish, foolish pride.

GrandGreen · March 22, 2016

Another thread about a nice achievement, turned into a RV rant.

Based on the team Mitchell inherited, the season was an excellent career start. The win total was a major upgrade, but this team was actually competitive in most games unlike Petersen's team. Criner was a great addition, but I applaud the return players that really upped their game: Tac, Ellison, Adams, Williams and others. I look forward to a big improvement next year.

Army of Dad · March 22, 2016

22 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

Another thread about a nice achievement, turned into a RV rant.

Based on the team Mitchell inherited, the season was an excellent career start. The win total was a major upgrade, but this team was actually competitive in most games unlike Petersen's team. Criner was a great addition, but I applaud the return players that really upped their game: Tac, Ellison, Adams, Williams and others. I look forward to a big improvement next year.

Uh, you did notice the RV side fired the first shot, right?

Censored by Laurie · March 22, 2016

1 hour ago, Army of Dad said:

Uh, you did notice the RV side fired the first shot, right?

no. I noticed someone point out that the AD's circle of influence really has little impact on the day-to-day product...perhaps taking it so far as to suggest that past results aren't always indicators of future performance. hardly seemed a ringing endorsement of RV.

RV has made six major sport hire since JJ. It's fair to say four were abject failures...Benford, Dodge, Stephens and Paterson. two, Aston and McCarney, from the last dying embers of those dumpster fires, at least created some modicum of success (which, I'm sorry, but as north texas fans, you can't just sneeze at)...one to be hired away and one, well, frankly to lose it big time (age? stubbornness? stroke? recreational activities?)

the fact is we have seen success under RV. enough for him to keep his job? in mine and many's opinion...aw hell no, but he's here and apparently indefinitely. Littrell and Jalie will now either succeed or fail on their own merits as recruiters and coaches, not due to any sort of toxic influence from Bonnie Brae.

Edited March 22, 2016 by Censored by Laurie

CMJ · March 22, 2016

To be fair CBL - RV also hired JJ.

Censored by Laurie · March 22, 2016

36 minutes ago, CMJ said:

To be fair CBL - RV also hired JJ.

I meant to put "since JJ" since that seems to be the subjective starting point. I'll edit.

Cr1028 · March 22, 2016

1 hour ago, UNT90 said:

If you call an 8-4 season, no west title, no conference title, a crappy bowl opponent achieved in one of the last 10 years, with the other 9 years being losing seasons with 4 losing seasons with 3 wins or less; if you call Aston's "turnaround" season being .500 then getting the F away from the swear eat as fast as she could (and remember,she contacted sweatervest about the job, not vice versa), then I guess you have a point.

JJ was the lone coach that came anywhere close to sustaining success, and the sweatervest immediately destroyed that success upon JJ's departure and has refused to fix it out of foolish, foolish pride.

Taking a 5-25 team and immediately making them a 15 win team is a turnaround in my book and yes when Texas comes calling you answer, it doesn't matter if Frank Broyles is your AD. The fact that they quintupled her salary probably didn't hurt either.

I agree Benford destroyed everything JJ built and that other than 2013 our football seasons have been atrocious. I also agree that their is likely a better athletic director out there and I hope we find him/her sooner rather than later. I will not agree, however, that Seth Littrell or Jalie Mitchell will fail strictly because they were hired by sweatervest.

29 minutes ago, Censored by Laurie said:

no. I noticed someone point out that the AD's circle of influence really has little impact on the day-to-day product...perhaps taking it so far as to suggest that past results aren't always indicators of future performance. hardly seemed a ringing endorsement of RV.

RV has made six major sport hire since JJ. It's fair to say four were abject failures...Benford, Dodge, Stephens and Paterson. two, Aston and McCarney, from the last dying embers of those dumpster fires, at least created some modicum of success (which, I'm sorry, but as north texas fans, you can't just sneeze at)...one to be hired away and one, well, frankly to lose it big time (age? stubbornness? stroke? recreational activities?)

the fact is we have seen success under RV. enough for him to keep his job? in mine and many's opinion...aw hell no, but he's here and apparently indefinitely. Littrell and Jalie will now either succeed or fail on their own merits as recruiters and coaches, not due to any sort of toxic influence from Bonnie Brae.

UNT90 · March 22, 2016

50 minutes ago, Censored by Laurie said:

no. I noticed someone point out that the AD's circle of influence really has little impact on the day-to-day product...perhaps taking it so far as to suggest that past results aren't always indicators of future performance. hardly seemed a ringing endorsement of RV.

RV has made six major sport hire since JJ. It's fair to say four were abject failures...Benford, Dodge, Stephens and Paterson. two, Aston and McCarney, from the last dying embers of those dumpster fires, at least created some modicum of success (which, I'm sorry, but as north texas fans, you can't just sneeze at)...one to be hired away and one, well, frankly to lose it big time (age? stubbornness? stroke? recreational activities?)

the fact is we have seen success under RV. enough for him to keep his job? in mine and many's opinion...aw hell no, but he's here and apparently indefinitely. Littrell and Jalie will now either succeed or fail on their own merits as recruiters and coaches, not due to any sort of toxic influence from Bonnie Brae.

One year is not a successful turn around.

Mans we disagree about the toxic environment on Bonnie Brea not affecting the new coaches. We shall see.

Censored by Laurie · March 22, 2016

53 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

we disagree

no shit

Army of Dad · March 22, 2016

1 hour ago, Censored by Laurie said:

no. I noticed someone point out that the AD's circle of influence really has little impact on the day-to-day product...perhaps taking it so far as to suggest that past results aren't always indicators of future performance. hardly seemed a ringing endorsement of RV.

RV has made six major sport hire since JJ. It's fair to say four were abject failures...Benford, Dodge, Stephens and Paterson. two, Aston and McCarney, from the last dying embers of those dumpster fires, at least created some modicum of success (which, I'm sorry, but as north texas fans, you can't just sneeze at)...one to be hired away and one, well, frankly to lose it big time (age? stubbornness? stroke? recreational activities?)

the fact is we have seen success under RV. enough for him to keep his job? in mine and many's opinion...aw hell no, but he's here and apparently indefinitely. Littrell and Jalie will now either succeed or fail on their own merits as recruiters and coaches, not due to any sort of toxic influence from Bonnie Brae.

I think the influence from Bonnie Brae will impact the coaches who have to deal with it. I do not think it necessarily dooms all of them to failure, but they are not being set up for success. If they can succeed in spite of it, that is a ringing endorsement for their skills.

With RV's vision for hiring coaches it doesn't bode well for anyone who gets hired here. I think it's entirely fair to say that coaches hired by RV are more likely than not to fail. You are what you are (to badly paraphrase Parcells) and his record is either awful, or just slight better than awful.

Censored by Laurie · March 22, 2016

2 hours ago, Army of Dad said:

I think the influence from Bonnie Brae will impact the coaches who have to deal with it. I do not think it necessarily dooms all of them to failure, but they are not being set up for success. If they can succeed in spite of it, that is a ringing endorsement for their skills.

With RV's vision for hiring coaches it doesn't bode well for anyone who gets hired here. I think it's entirely fair to say that coaches hired by RV are more likely than not to fail. You are what you are (to badly paraphrase Parcells) and his record is either awful, or just slight better than awful.

everything in a vacuum...do you think Seth and Jalie are good hires? if not, well, let's add it to the banner for the next airplane.

but, if so...out of the vacuum...how do you feel RV hinders their ability to perform the main objectives of their job: convey strategy, recruit quality athletes/people, well represent the school/community and subsequently, with those things in place, win games?

the losers here have been losers because they were at best bad hires and at worst bad coaches. I think really only Todd Dodge was negatively affected by the AD...I still contend he was the absolute right hire...it was bold, he brought interesting football after years of 1950s style and he engaged the community...but he also tied his own noose by bringing a high school staff along with him. this is where the AD should've had the vision and /or balls to tell him no.

FirefightnRick · March 23, 2016

1 hour ago, Censored by Laurie said:

how do you feel RV hinders their ability to perform the main objectives of their job: convey strategy, recruit quality athletes/people, well represent the school/community and subsequently, with those things in place, win games?

A disastrous 12 straight game schedule for one. Low-balling game contract negotiations for another, where for every $150,00 here, $250,000 there that we miss out on for playing a Texas etc...extra money that other G5 programs seem to get,...that's less money our head coaches could use to retain assistants or use for recruiting budgets.

Rick

UNT90 · March 23, 2016

1 hour ago, Censored by Laurie said:

everything in a vacuum...do you think Seth and Jalie are good hires? if not, well, let's add it to the banner for the next airplane.

but, if so...out of the vacuum...how do you feel RV hinders their ability to perform the main objectives of their job: convey strategy, recruit quality athletes/people, well represent the school/community and subsequently, with those things in place, win games?

the losers here have been losers because they were at best bad hires and at worst bad coaches. I think really only Todd Dodge was negatively affected by the AD...I still contend he was the absolute right hire...it was bold, he brought interesting football after years of 1950s style and he engaged the community...but he also tied his own noose by bringing a high school staff along with him. this is where the AD should've had the vision and /or balls to tell him no.

There is no way to rate Mitchell or Littrell, good or bad. Lack of leadership ALWAYS affects subordinates, especially subordinates who are used to the lavish surroundings of P5 programs.

I think Mitchell has a chance to be a good coach here if she can actually coach. Early signs are she might be able to hold her own. She knows the terrible culture that exists here, from both her time as a player and an assistant.

I think Littrell is in for the shock of his life. I think he had no idea the level of dysfunction he was entering. I think he will expect the little things to get professionally done like they did at his P5 gigs (because that's all he knows). I think he gets frustrated quickly at the chaos surrounding him and don't give him much of a chance here.

Censored by Laurie · March 23, 2016

7 minutes ago, FirefightnRick said:

A disastrous 12 straight game schedule for one. Low-balling game contract negotiations for another, where for every $150,00 here, $250,000 there that we miss out on for playing a Texas etc...extra money that other G5 programs seem to get,...that's less money our head coaches could use to retain assistants or use for recruiting budgets.

I'll actually give you schedule...last year's was terrible. costs a good coach a game...maybe two. not 11.

as for the finances...I know you're still on the ULM vs. UNT money for A&M, which I thought we calculated as all but having coming out in the wash (someone refresh my memory either way)...but unless there was some internal rumblings, it seemed Littrell got the staff he wanted

9 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

There is no way to rate Mitchell or Littrell, good or bad. Lack of leadership ALWAYS affects subordinates, especially subordinates who are used to the lavish surroundings of P5 programs.

I think Mitchell has a chance to be a good coach here if she can actually coach. Early signs are she might be able to hold her own. She knows the terrible culture that exists here, from both her time as a player and an assistant.

I think Littrell is in for the shock of his life. I think he had no idea the level of dysfunction he was entering. I think he will expect the little things to get professionally done like they did at his P5 gigs (because that's all he knows). I think he gets frustrated quickly at the chaos surrounding him and don't give him much of a chance here.

I asked for an opinion, not an on the job assessment. like...let's say RV hired Jerry Sandusky. you'd have an opinion on that, no?

and...you mean a professional and well-functioning athletic department like the one at North Carolina ??? just because things suck here doesn't mean that they're sunny every...or any...where else.

also...very rarely do subordinates make three times as much as their boss. he's a (presumably) ambitious head football coach in Texas. he might feel he has to answer to some oil wildcatter's wife whose name is on the field and/or Jesus...but if pressed between his career and appeasing RV, my opinion is he'll opt toward the prior.

Army of Dad · March 23, 2016

2 hours ago, Censored by Laurie said:

everything in a vacuum...do you think Seth and Jalie are good hires? if not, well, let's add it to the banner for the next airplane.

but, if so...out of the vacuum...how do you feel RV hinders their ability to perform the main objectives of their job: convey strategy, recruit quality athletes/people, well represent the school/community and subsequently, with those things in place, win games?

the losers here have been losers because they were at best bad hires and at worst bad coaches. I think really only Todd Dodge was negatively affected by the AD...I still contend he was the absolute right hire...it was bold, he brought interesting football after years of 1950s style and he engaged the community...but he also tied his own noose by bringing a high school staff along with him. this is where the AD should've had the vision and /or balls to tell him no.

Better yet, how do you feel that RV is supporting his people and setting them up for success?

Since I usually actually answer your questions, I'll give it another go. (In no particular order)

1. Poor customer service pushes away fans. (No of course this isn't the only thing that drives fans away, but it is almost completely within the control of competent ADs).

2. Poor ticket sales and marketing. This includes both single game and season tickets.

3. Substandard facilities. @TheWestie noted a few years back that our basketball lockers rooms lag behind our conference competition.

4. Recruit experience. There's the above noted facilities issue of course (what kid doesn't want to see a 'big time' environment when he visits a school?) Additionally, I've heard from several recruits and their families that they were not impressed/were disappointed with the recruiting experience for game day visits.

4a. Recruit experience when kids come to a nearly empty Super Pit and/or Apogee. The incredibly poor attendance won't impress recruits in a good way.

5. Scheduling. The 5 game home seasons are not ideal situations for football coaches.

6. Poor (being generous here) recruitment to the MGC.

7. Odd/bad/substandard branding and uniforms. They often look cheap. (This is a minor consideration for me personally, but it may matter more to others). And say hello to our combative toward fans SID-not helping with the branding and abrasive to paying customers=bad combination.

Of course that all starts at the top, not that I've ever heard RV take any responsibility for anything that wasn't great.

The big thing is he is awful at hiring coaches. He is so bad at it that if I were an adminstrator at another school and found out he liked a candidate I was considering I would immediately reexamine the candidate to see if I missed something before removing them from consideration.

Early returns on Jalie are promising. She is, I think, the first alum hired by RV to be a head coach here. That should be in her favor when it comes to understanding what she needs to do here to have succes.

Littrell hasn't shown too much yet, though it's not his fault he hasn't had any games to coach so there isn't much he could have done for me to consider. Pulling a well regarded and highly rated (with multiple D1 offers) HS QB would have fit the bill, mostly because that is something incredibly difficult to do given the circumstances.

I don't wish for these coaches to be losers. Shit, I would have been pretty happy if Benford could have found a way to go 20-12 instead of 12-20 (again). Even if RV failed to see it over and over and over again he should have done the right thing this offseason. Give some tearful speech about how great a man Benford is, how close he came to turning it around here, but at the end of the day he just didn't win enough games and we thank him for his contributions and wish him well in the future.

It's entirely possible that I've missed several more items that hurt the chances of a coach to be a winner here, but that's at least a start.

outoftown · March 23, 2016

Jalie could really work out.
I figure she is here mostly because RV didn't really have a choice but to hire her and I credit her having a chance to be succesfull to actually being aware of what NT is and isn't before she arrived. That has been a rarity lately.

Edited March 23, 2016 by outoftown

FirefightnRick · March 23, 2016

37 minutes ago, Censored by Laurie said:

I'll actually give you schedule...last year's was terrible. costs a good coach a game...maybe two. not 11.

as for the finances...I know you're still on the ULM vs. UNT money for A&M, which I thought we calculated as all but having coming out in the wash (someone refresh my memory either way)...but unless there was some internal rumblings, it seemed Littrell got the staff he wanted

I asked for an opinion, not an on the job assessment. like...let's say RV hired Jerry Sandusky. you'd have an opinion on that, no?

and...you mean a professional and well-functioning athletic department like the one at North Carolina ??? just because things suck here doesn't mean that they're sunny every...or any...where else.

also...very rarely do subordinates make three times as much as their boss. he's a (presumably) ambitious head football coach in Texas. he might feel he has to answer to some oil wildcatter's wife whose name is on the field and/or Jesus...but if pressed between his career and appeasing RV, my opinion is he'll opt toward the prior.

I was referencing for future coach retainment purposes.

But also its not just the A&M vs ULM scenario. It has seemed to me for quite some time now we over pay schools to come to Denton and get underpaid to travel.

Theres nothing in RV's history that tells me North Texas gets the none shitty end of the stick when contract negotiations are the concern.

By the way....Pitt got $10 Million to lose their coach yesterday. Maybe I'm wrong but it seems to me that's a great deal. Does anyone know what great deal did we got for losing JJ and Karen Aston?

Rick

Wag Tag · March 23, 2016

10 hours ago, UNT90 said:

If you call an 8-4 season, no west title, no conference title, a crappy bowl opponent achieved in one of the last 10 years, with the other 9 years being losing seasons with 4 losing seasons with 3 wins or less; if you call Aston's "turnaround" season being .500 then getting the F away from the swear eat as fast as she could (and remember,she contacted sweatervest about the job, not vice versa), then I guess you have a point.

JJ was the lone coach that came anywhere close to sustaining success, and the sweatervest immediately destroyed that success upon JJ's departure and has refused to fix it out of foolish, foolish pride.

You are still a Bore!!!