What will it take for a leadership change

GrandGreen · March 14, 2016

Topic on CUSA board about what teams were good additions and the opposite. Of course, you don't need to look to know what the typical CUSA fan thinks of NT.

Middle Tennessee has just won both tournaments in basketball. WKU has quickly become a force in CUSA. Yet, NT who should have advantages over both is the absolute worst program in terms of the revenue sports in the conference including teams that only recently moved up to the FB football division.

My question, is there anything short of a major scandal that would initiate a change in who is running the athletic department? The answer, is obviously apparently not. Lost of games, fans, and heaps of ridicule don't seem to matter. Even with the hope generated by a new football staff, a promising WBB coach and nice group of returnees in MBB; there is relatively little enthusiasm generated by the NT athletic program.

I apologize for another anti-RV thread, there are definitely plenty. It is just amazing to me that how many other programs have passed NT by and the President and BOR are seemingly content to bet on RV to turn things around. I don't believe for a second like some have suggested that the administration doesn't care, they do. However, it is very easy to see why many think that way.

Edited March 14, 2016 by GrandGreen

UNT90 · March 14, 2016

3 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

Topic on CUSA board about what teams were good additions and the opposite. Of course, you don't need to look to know what the typical CUSA fan thinks of NT.

Middle Tennessee has just won both tournaments in basketball. WKU has quickly become a force in CUSA. Yet, NT who should have advantages over both is the absolute worst program in terms of the revenue sports in the conference including teams that only recently moved up to the FB football division.

My question, is there anything short of a major scandal that would initiate a change in who is running the athletic department? The answer, is obviously apparently not. Lost of games, fans, and heaps of ridicule don't seem to matter. Even with the hope generated by a new football staff, a promising WBB coach and nice group of returnees in MBB; there is relatively little enthusiasm generated by the NT athletic program.

I apologize for another anti-RV thread, there are definitely plenty. It is just amazing to me that how many other programs have passed NT by and the President and BOR are seeming content to bet on RV to turn things around. I don't believe for a second like some have suggested that the administration doesn't care, they do. However, it is very easy to see why many think that way.

It's not the President that is preventing his exit, it's big donors like Ernie and Fly who have developed a personal relationship with Rick Villarreal and will protect him at any cost, and that includes wins and losses. It appeared that Smatresk lost a power struggle to get him out last fall.

Money wins, especially when you have pitifully little of it for the size of university that you are, especially in athletic donations.

The BOR doesn't care about athletics. Never really has. The threat of the little money they have walking away (which at this point I don't think would be a bad thing, at least for a few of them) was enough to sway the BOR. Gotta make that budget, after all.

Mike Jackson · March 14, 2016

My question for you is, why do you think they care? If they care they are only hoping for the program to be mediocre at some point. And I think that is the problem they have never "went big" when it comes to choosing leadership positions in the Athletic Department whether you talking about AD or Head Coaches. Say what you will about Larry Coker, UTSA hired a coach with a national championship ring (as the leader of the program not a coordinator). They have never aim for the stars even with Apogee. The stadium should have been built to hold about 45,000. You can't entice P5 schools to have a home and home with you when your stadium only holds 30,000. Just think if Larry ended up here instead of UTSA and had a 45,000 seat stadium to help him schedule and recruit. They need a big personality with big skins on the wall to change the perception of UNT. The BOR don't want to do this because it cost too much money and those kind of Apha-Dog could "overshadow the university" but they are afraid of using "power".

22 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

I don't believe for a second like some have suggested that the administration doesn't care, they do. However, it is very easy to see why many think that way.

So again I ask other than facilities (that should have been built 15 years ago to fit with the growth of the rest of the university) what has the leadership done to make you believe they really care about winning?

Edited March 14, 2016 by Mike Jackson

BillySee58 · March 14, 2016

We're awful at keeping up with other programs. Whether it's with trends or with play, we're constantly behind the curve. But we also don't bother to hold ourselves up to the standards our peers do.

GrandGreen · March 14, 2016

17 minutes ago, Mike Jackson said:

My question for you is, why do you think they care? If they care they are only hoping for the program to be mediocre at some point. And I think that is the problem they have never "went big" when it comes to choosing leadership positions in the Athletic Department whether you talking about AD or Head Coaches. Say what you will about Larry Coker, UTSA hired a coach with a national championship ring (as the leader of the program not a coordinator). They have never aim for the stars even with Apogee. The stadium should have been built to hold about 45,000. You can't entice P5 schools to have a home and home with you when your stadium only holds 30,000. Just think if Larry ended up here instead of UTSA and had a 45,000 seat stadium to help him schedule and recruit. They need a big personality with big skins on the wall to change the perception of UNT. The BOR don't want to do this because it cost too much money and those kind of Apha-Dog could "overshadow the university" but they are afraid of using "power".

So again I ask other than facilities (that should have been built 15 years ago to fit with the growth of the rest of the university) what has the leadership done to make you believe they really care about winning?

Yeah, that 45,000 seats would really solve some problems. You really think the reason that name schools don't come to Denton is because the stadium is too small? Or for that manner, a coach like Coker would fire up the fans? Also Coker cost a lot less than McCarney and Littrell.

Regents are appointed at NT like every other school in Texas. I guess the others get pro-athletic regents and NT doesn't. It is obvious that there are regents that care a lot of about NT and athletes. Anybody who said they don't obviously has not met them. I know they care, I just don't agree with their lack of action relative to changing leadership.

19 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

It's not the President that is preventing his exit, it's big donors like Ernie and Fly who have developed a personal relationship with Rick Villarreal and will protect hny cost, and that includes wins and losses. It appeared that Smatresk lost a power struggle to get him out last fall.

Money wins, especially when you have pitifully little of it for the size of university that you are, especially in athletic donations.

The BOR doesn't care about athletics. Never really has. The threat of the little money they have walking away (which at this point I don't think would be a bad thing, at least for a few of them) was enough to sway the BOR. Gotta make that budget, after all.

What does making the budget mean? NT is losing tons of money on athletes and if that was their main concern changes would be made.

As far as a power struggle, not sure how you could know that or in fact if there was one; if it is over. The facts are that even the big donors at NT are only a very small part of the funding. Most comes from the students and it has been that way for a long time at NT. The boxes have changed a little with the dedicated athletic funding fee, but NT relies far more on student fees than those funds represent.

The point is that a small group of donors shouldn't have that much clout. The BOR does and as you know that group is intermingled with the so-called 17, therefore some apparent cover for the AD. Apparently, some like you think that people that support NT athletes can't support RV. I don't understand their support, however it is definitely their choice to do so.

UNTLifer · March 14, 2016

1 hour ago, UNT90 said:

It's not the President that is preventing his exit, it's big donors like Ernie and Fly who have developed a personal relationship with Rick Villarreal and will protect him at any cost, and that includes wins and losses. It appeared that Smatresk lost a power struggle to get him out last fall.

Money wins, especially when you have pitifully little of it for the size of university that you are, especially in athletic donations.

The BOR doesn't care about athletics. Never really has. The threat of the little money they have walking away (which at this point I don't think would be a bad thing, at least for a few of them) was enough to sway the BOR. Gotta make that budget, after all.

Lot's of speculation in this post.

UNT90 · March 14, 2016

4 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Lot's of speculation in this post.

No doubt.

But Smatresk refused to give RV a vote of confidence when RV asked, and then released that fact to the press. This was before the coaching search took place.

I think if I were president, I would want the new AD to make that coaching hire if I was set on making a change. I think Smatresk would have felt the same way.

I think the struggle has been lost and RV gets to stay here as long as he wants. I don't think 3 straight 0-12 seasons would affect his job status.

The overall administration at UNT just doesn't care.

38 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

Yeah, that 45,000 seats would really solve some problems.   You really think the reason that name schools don't come to Denton is because the stadium is too small?   Or for that manner, a coach like Coker would fire up the fans? Also Coker cost a lot less than McCarney and Littrell.

Regents are appointed at NT like every other school in Texas. I guess the others get pro-athletic regents and NT doesn't. It is obvious that there are regents that care a lot of about NT and athletes. Anybody who said they don't obviously has not met them. I know they care, I just don't agree with their lack of action relative to changing leadership.

What does making the budget mean? NT is losing tons of money on athletes and if that was their main concern changes would be made.

As far as a power struggle, not sure how you could know that or in fact if there was one; if it is over. The facts are that even the big donors at NT are only a very small part of the funding. Most comes from the students and it has been that way for a long time at NT. The boxes have changed a little with the dedicated athletic funding fee, but NT relies far more on student fees than those funds represent.

The point is that a small group of donors shouldn't have that much clout. The BOR does and as you know that group is intermingled with the so-called 17, therefore some apparent cover for the AD. Apparently, some like you think that people that support NT athletes can't support RV. I don't understand their support, however it is definitely their choice to do so.

It is their choice to do so, and it is my choice to be highly critical of their choice.

Travis · March 14, 2016

A change would be nice. I have no confidence RV can get us out of this mess.

UNT90 · March 14, 2016

2 hours ago, GrandGreen said:

Yeah, that 45,000 seats would really solve some problems.   You really think the reason that name schools don't come to Denton is because the stadium is too small?   Or for that manner, a coach like Coker would fire up the fans? Also Coker cost a lot less than McCarney and Littrell.

Regents are appointed at NT like every other school in Texas. I guess the others get pro-athletic regents and NT doesn't. It is obvious that there are regents that care a lot of about NT and athletes. Anybody who said they don't obviously has not met them. I know they care, I just don't agree with their lack of action relative to changing leadership.

What does making the budget mean? NT is losing tons of money on athletes and if that was their main concern changes would be made.

As far as a power struggle, not sure how you could know that or in fact if there was one; if it is over. The facts are that even the big donors at NT are only a very small part of the funding. Most comes from the students and it has been that way for a long time at NT. The boxes have changed a little with the dedicated athletic funding fee, but NT relies far more on student fees than those funds represent.

The point is that a small group of donors shouldn't have that much clout. The BOR does and as you know that group is intermingled with the so-called 17, therefore some apparent cover for the AD. Apparently, some like you think that people that support NT athletes can't support RV. I don't understand their support, however it is definitely their choice to do so.

Words are meaningless. Actions tell the tale. If they won't act to change the course of dismal athletic failure, they just don't care enough to do so.

Im sure they say all the right things to you. RV says all the right things when he isn't openly lying to the fan base. Actions speak way louder than words.

GrandGreen · March 14, 2016

3 hours ago, UNT90 said:

Words are meaningless. Actions tell the tale. If they won't act to change the course of dismal athletic failure, they just don't care enough to do so.

Im sure they say all the right things to you. RV says all the right things when he isn't openly lying to the fan base. Actions speak way louder than words.

Not surprised but find it somewhat amusing that a post that basically agrees with the position you continually take, and you still must find something to disagree with. Someone might think that your agenda on this board has more to with creating turmoil than presenting your view.

UNT90 · March 14, 2016

1 hour ago, GrandGreen said:

Not surprised but find it somewhat amusing that a post that basically agrees with the position you continually take, and you still must find something to disagree with. Someone might think that your agenda on this board has more to with creating turmoil than presenting your view.

It's an opinion board. If you choose to believe what people say over what they do, more power to you. I don't.

MeanGreenTexan · March 14, 2016

12 hours ago, UNT90 said:

It's not the President that is preventing his exit, it's big donors like Ernie and Fly who have developed a personal relationship with Rick Villarreal and will protect him at any cost, and that includes wins and losses. It appeared that Smatresk lost a power struggle to get him out last fall.

Money wins, especially when you have pitifully little of it for the size of university that you are, especially in athletic donations.

The BOR doesn't care about athletics. Never really has. The threat of the little money they have walking away (which at this point I don't think would be a bad thing, at least for a few of them) was enough to sway the BOR. Gotta make that budget, after all.

I don't know that I agree with this 100%. Maybe like 66%.

Although, I do think "the17" want to keep RV around and they carry much sway, RV's employment ultimately rests on the shoulders of Smatresk, Jackson, & the BOR. If most/all of them are happy with his job, he's going to stay. If they're not happy, and they're not scared of losing any from "the17's" ranks, then he will be gone.

It's a tangled web, and so far RV has masterfully navigated it all. Unfortunately, it's proving to come at the cost of successful football & basketball.

Fantastic buildings, good/great "olympic" sports, a balanced budget, and a vision for baseball are apparently some HUGE bargaining chips.

UNTLifer · March 14, 2016

Quick question: Can anyone name this mythical "17?"

MeanGreenTexan · March 14, 2016

3 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Quick question: Can anyone name this mythical "17?"

Walk up and down the aisles in the suite level at Apogee.
Also, start here:
http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/ntex/genrel/auto_pdf/2015-16/misc_non_event/PlatinumEagle.pdf

Greenrex · March 14, 2016

56 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Quick question: Can anyone name this mythical "17?"

1-Imogene Dickey
2-Lex Luthor
3-Dr. Richard Kimble
4-Clayface
5-Dr. Von Doom
6- Green Goblin
7-Mysterio
8-Abner Kadaver
9-Neo

10-Spider Matthews
11-Joker
12-Billie Saul Estes
13-Walter White
14-Killgrave
15-Edward Snowden
16-Black Jack Randall
17-Imogene Dickey

Edited March 14, 2016 by Greenrex
Spell casting

pastorgrant · March 14, 2016

I suspect RV could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and it wouldn't cost him his job.

GRN-WHT · March 14, 2016

RV will be gone when he wants to retire or when the 17 no longer want him here.

Do as I and others have done and vote with your pocketbook. There are plenty of other ways to help fund scholarships for students with limited opportunities without giving to the athletic department.

The athletic department doesn't have a monopoly in helping out students that may not otherwise go to college.

Edited March 14, 2016 by GRN-WHT

untjim1995 · March 14, 2016

8 minutes ago, GRN-WHT said:

RV will be gone when he wants to retire or when the 17 no longer want him here.

Do as I and others have done and vote with your pocketbook. There are plenty of other ways to help fund scholarships for students with limited opportunities without giving to the athletic department.

The athletic department doesn't have a monopoly in helping out students that may not otherwise go to college.

This.

RV will leave if and when the UNT 17 want him gone. Not a day before. The BOR ceded control of the athletic department to those guys. It's basically the UNT17 Mean Green now...

Mike Jackson · March 14, 2016

I still stand by my opinion that the vast majority of the leadership at the university that has power over the athletic department don't care about winning. more specifically they only want to be mediocre. Lip service in the media or while the are shaking the hand of Mean Green fans like us mean nothing. Look at all the programs all other the country that weren't playing football before 1990 that have shot past us. Just looking at Boise State, UCF, and USF should make any UNT fan boiling mad. Moreover we are just keep up with post 2000 programs like FAU, FIU and UTSA. I have seen no convincing evidence other than coaches salaries (extremely recent) that ha shown me the leadership is serious. If I were a current student I would want a recall of the athletic fee voted on. This is beyond garbage that RV is still employed. It reminds me of FIFA but at least that organization as a whole is making money.

MeanGreen_MBA · March 14, 2016

19 hours ago, Mike Jackson said:

My question for you is, why do you think they care? If they care they are only hoping for the program to be mediocre at some point. And I think that is the problem they have never "went big" when it comes to choosing leadership positions in the Athletic Department whether you talking about AD or Head Coaches. Say what you will about Larry Coker, UTSA hired a coach with a national championship ring (as the leader of the program not a coordinator). They have never aim for the stars even with Apogee. The stadium should have been built to hold about 45,000. You can't entice P5 schools to have a home and home with you when your stadium only holds 30,000. Just think if Larry ended up here instead of UTSA and had a 45,000 seat stadium to help him schedule and recruit. They need a big personality with big skins on the wall to change the perception of UNT. The BOR don't want to do this because it cost too much money and those kind of Apha-Dog could "overshadow the university" but they are afraid of using "power".

So again I ask other than facilities (that should have been built 15 years ago to fit with the growth of the rest of the university) what has the leadership done to make you believe they really care about winning?

Not saying it is the greatest, but we have 5 Bowl games with 2 wins. Both men and women's BBall teams have made it to the NCAA tournament. Again, not what I expect, but not the walking dead either. There are a lot of teams that would like to have made 5 bowl games in 15 yrs. I expect more, but the Sky is NOT Falling

GMG24 · March 14, 2016

16 minutes ago, MeanGreen_MBA said:

Not saying it is the greatest, but we have 5 Bowl games with 2 wins. Both men and women's BBall teams have made it to the NCAA tournament. Again, not what I expect, but not the walking dead either. There are a lot of teams that would like to have made 5 bowl games in 15 yrs. I expect more, but the Sky is NOT Falling

Yes, it is. Actually, you are right. We are falling, quickly to D1AA status.

Aldo · March 14, 2016

20 minutes ago, MeanGreen_MBA said:

There are a lot of teams that would like to have made 5 bowl games in 15 yrs.

or 100 yrs

Mike Jackson · March 14, 2016

Name one of the that had played FBS football for more than 20 years, located in a large market, and has 25,000 plus enrollment for 20 years.

1 hour ago, Aldo said:

or 100 yrs

rcade · March 14, 2016

2 hours ago, MeanGreen_MBA said:

There are a lot of teams that would like to have made 5 bowl games in 15 yrs.

Four of those five bowl trips were over a decade ago. How many teams wish they had one bowl visit in 10 years?

UNT ranks 106 out of 119 teams in winning percentage over those 15 years:

http://football.stassen.com/cgi-bin/records/calc-wp.pl?start=2000&end=2015&rpct=30&min=5&se=on&by=Win+Pct

We rank 117 out of 123 the past 10 years:

http://football.stassen.com/cgi-bin/records/calc-wp.pl?start=2005&end=2015&rpct=30&min=5&se=on&by=Win+Pct

In the college football world we're an object of pity, not envy.

MeanGreen_MBA · March 15, 2016

16 hours ago, Mike Jackson said:

Name one of the that had played FBS football for more than 20 years, located in a large market, and has 25,000 plus enrollment for 20 years.

University of Colorado has been to 5 Bowl games in the last 15 yrs. 32K enrollment that took about 5 minutes of my time to find that.... Do I wish we were better....yes I do....But I will not hate on the University...I will support MY University.