Uh season ticket sales

[UNT90]

42 minutes ago, Mike Jackson said:

I wonder how much Seth read on GMG.com before taking the job?   I hope he did because it means he has extreme confidence in his coaching ability and he teams.  Does he know how pathetic the  Athletic Department is?  I would like to look at the bright side and say that he has and that he views UNT as more than a mere quick stepping stone to better things.  On the dark side if he is successful it might keep RV around longer to run the other sports further into the ground.  And I disagree that the article is depressing.   it only depressing if make you realize that UNT's administration aren't committed to winning or even a creating football program that can break even financially.  Sooner or later that will spell doom for UNT at the FBS level.   And comparing Houston to UNT is not a meaningful comparison.  Houston has invested more into athletics for over 50 years.  What should depress UNT fans are programs that have started since 2000 kicking our asses on the field and court with regularity.   The fact that Texas State and UTSA for all extensive purpose have programs just as good as our now should get the AD fired.  I wish Houston continued success because they earned community support and their administration is committed to keeping it.  It only here at UNT that the community get blame for not supporting a bad product. 

I wish we could set up a go-fund-me with a target goal of 500K only to be release to UNT Athletics if they fire RV.   That is on $5 from 100,000 local UNT students, alumni, faculty and fans.   The problem is that we don't have 100,000 people who care enough to let go of $5.

We don't have 30,850 people that care enough, much less 100,000. 

[UTSA Fan]

1 minute ago, UNT90 said:

We don't have 30,850 people that care enough, much less 100,000. 

What if the team started stringing together winning seasons? Wouldn't that turn around the fan base like Houston?

[Mike Jackson]

1 minute ago, UTSA Fan said:

What if the team started stringing together winning seasons? Wouldn't that turn around the fan base like Houston?

Not really, because it more than just winning seasons.  It is just as important who you beat and when you beat them.  The undefeated 3 run through the Sun Belt materialized in nothing.  UNT still never record a sellout or even within 2,000 of a sellout.  UNT has to have a couple of winning seasons and beat a traditional power when they are having a decent but subpar for their expectations year.  Preferably a bowl game against one of those traditional powers.  And the closer to the state of Texas the school is the better.  I don't think TAMU or UT would ever accept a bowl game match up with us so I have a list of potentials bowl game victories that might get UNT over the hump.

1. Oklahoma

2. LSU

3. Arkansas

4. Nebraska

5. USC

Very unlikely we get matched up with any of those teams in a bowl game unless we end of up as the highest rated G5 conference winner undefeated or with one close loss in a "money" game.  So even if we won CUSA 3 years straight with 9-3 records I would be surprised if we got a sellout without beating a traditional power in a bowl game or a "money" game during the season.

[NTXCoog]

2 hours ago, Mike Jackson said:

I wonder how much Seth read on GMG.com before taking the job?   I hope he did because it means he has extreme confidence in his coaching ability and he teams.  Does he know how pathetic the  Athletic Department is?  I would like to look at the bright side and say that he has and that he views UNT as more than a mere quick stepping stone to better things.  On the dark side if he is successful it might keep RV around longer to run the other sports further into the ground.  And I disagree that the article is depressing.   it only depressing if make you realize that UNT's administration aren't committed to winning or even a creating football program that can break even financially.  Sooner or later that will spell doom for UNT at the FBS level.   And comparing Houston to UNT is not a meaningful comparison.  Houston has invested more into athletics for over 50 years.  What should depress UNT fans are programs that have started since 2000 kicking our asses on the field and court with regularity.   The fact that Texas State and UTSA for all extensive purpose have programs just as good as our now should get the AD fired.  I wish Houston continued success because they earned community support and their administration is committed to keeping it.  It only here at UNT that the community get blame for not supporting a bad product. 

From 2000-2002, the UNT program might have been better than Houston.  Definitely better on the field.  The right coaching hire makes a huge difference.

[UNTLifer]

5 hours ago, UNT90 said:

Because UH and UNT are the same job...

About as comparable as being a P5 assistant at Ohio State vs. An assistant at UNC.  Either way, UH chose a successful P5 assistant as did we.

[UNT90]

3 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

About as comparable as being a P5 assistant at Ohio State vs. An assistant at UNC.  Either way, UH chose a successful P5 assistant as did we.

But the situation each of those P5 assistants enter is diametrically different.

Houston's comes into a winning program with a good AD who is working his ass off to make things better. Littrell is coming into the worst AD situation in FBS, an AD that is working to keep his job until retirement and little else, manipulate donors, doesn't give his coach a schedule that will ever produce a program changing victory, doesn't promote games properly, and divides the fan base. Littrell will have to do so much more than Houston's P5 assistant just to have 1/4 of the success. 

Odds are heavily stacked against Littrell. 

 

Edited February 29, 2016 by UNT90

[Ben Gooding]

7 hours ago, UNT90 said:

But the situation each of those P5 assistants enter is diametrically different.

Houston's comes into a winning program with a good AD who is working his ass off to make things better. Littrell is coming into the worst AD situation in FBS, an AD that is working to keep his job until retirement and little else, manipulate donors, doesn't give his coach a schedule that will ever produce a program changing victory, doesn't promote games properly, and divides the fan base. Littrell will have to do so much more than Houston's P5 assistant just to have 1/4 of the success. 

Odds are heavily stacked against Littrell. 

 

In the regular season, the bold does not exist. To be honest, it doesn't even exist unless capitalized on. Example, Boise beating OU in the Fiesta(?) Bowl was program changing. That can be looked back on as a program changing game but not just that it was won, but how it was won. In contrast, UCF beat Baylor in the Fiesta Bowl and has since tanked. That will prove not to be program changing. 

There are also several times a year that G5's take down P5's. Never program changing for all of them, so how would it be for us? 

I get it though. RV needs to go. 

[NTXCoog]

19 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

In the regular season, the bold does not exist. To be honest, it doesn't even exist unless capitalized on. Example, Boise beating OU in the Fiesta(?) Bowl was program changing. That can be looked back on as a program changing game but not just that it was won, but how it was won. In contrast, UCF beat Baylor in the Fiesta Bowl and has since tanked. That will prove not to be program changing. 

There are also several times a year that G5's take down P5's. Never program changing for all of them, so how would it be for us? 

I get it though. RV needs to go. 

I think if you're going into a BCS/NYE6 bowl, your program has already changed.  You don't luck into those.  Generally there is some history even if you take steps forward and back.

UCF may be down right now, but they've done that before.  They were 4-8 in 2006, CUSA champs in 2007 then 4-8 in 2008.  11-3 CUSA champs in 2010, 5-7 in 2011, and 10-4 CUSA champs in 2012.  They are the most up and down team I've ever seen, even more than UH which had a history of that in the 70s and 80s. 

[UNT90]

2 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

In the regular season, the bold does not exist. To be honest, it doesn't even exist unless capitalized on. Example, Boise beating OU in the Fiesta(?) Bowl was program changing. That can be looked back on as a program changing game but not just that it was won, but how it was won. In contrast, UCF beat Baylor in the Fiesta Bowl and has since tanked. That will prove not to be program changing. 

There are also several times a year that G5's take down P5's. Never program changing for all of them, so how would it be for us? 

I get it though. RV needs to go. 

UNT is like no other university out there. We aren't Boise St or Houston. We have never had a program defining win in a winning season. Ever. This program desperately needs it, but UNT has an AD that has publicly stated that he will never put UNT in a position. It's something that has NEVER occurred for UNT, and won't as long as Rick Villarreal is scheduling football games.

Its something that needs to happen, and needs to happen fairly quickly lest UNT be forced to drop down to FCS level competition. 

[UNTLifer]

7 hours ago, UNT90 said:

But the situation each of those P5 assistants enter is diametrically different.

Houston's comes into a winning program with a good AD who is working his ass off to make things better. Littrell is coming into the worst AD situation in FBS, an AD that is working to keep his job until retirement and little else, manipulate donors, doesn't give his coach a schedule that will ever produce a program changing victory, doesn't promote games properly, and divides the fan base. Littrell will have to do so much more than Houston's P5 assistant just to have 1/4 of the success. 

Odds are heavily stacked against Littrell. 

 

Based on what you posted above, it would not matter is we had hired someone with HC experience or another P5 assistant.  RV has a lot of faults, but I don't think Littrell's situation is nearly as dire as you do based upon the following:

1. Our recruiting budget is fine.

2. Apogee

3. Athletic Center

4. Assistant Coaches/Salaries

5. Winnable schedule.

6. The players mainly choose a school based upon their relationship with the coaching staff and Littrell is proving he can build these relationships.  Plus, these young men spend the majority of their time with the coaching staff not the AD.

I think the major components to make this program successful are in place.

[UNT90]

5 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

Based on what you posted above, it would not matter is we had hired someone with HC experience or another P5 assistant.  RV has a lot of faults, but I don't think Littrell's situation is nearly as dire as you do based upon the following:

1. Our recruiting budget is fine.

2. Apogee

3. Athletic Center

4. Assistant Coaches/Salaries

5. Winnable schedule.

6. The players mainly choose a school based upon their relationship with the coaching staff and Littrell is proving he can build these relationships.  Plus, these young men spend the majority of their time with the coaching staff not the AD.

I think the major components to make this program successful are in place.

An experienced coach that won at a place where no one had won before would be better equipped to handle the unique challenges at UNT. Does that guarantee success? Hell no, but putting in a career assistant with nothing but P5 experience because it is the trendy thing to do is a recipe for disaster... Unless Littrell can adapt and adjust at breakneck speed, something no one before him has been able to do (Dodge-high school; D Mac-P5 only), this will be another failed RV hire.

The fact that Dickey has been the most successful coach in UNT modern day history and was the only candidate that had previous G5 experience should says lot to you folks. 

Why it doesn't, I just don't know.

 

Edited February 29, 2016 by UNT90

[untjim1995]

1 hour ago, UNTLifer said:

Based on what you posted above, it would not matter is we had hired someone with HC experience or another P5 assistant.  RV has a lot of faults, but I don't think Littrell's situation is nearly as dire as you do based upon the following:

1. Our recruiting budget is fine.

2. Apogee

3. Athletic Center

4. Assistant Coaches/Salaries

5. Winnable schedule.

6. The players mainly choose a school based upon their relationship with the coaching staff and Littrell is proving he can build these relationships.  Plus, these young men spend the majority of their time with the coaching staff not the AD.

I think the major components to make this program successful are in place.

I think that the problem here is that, even with Littrell's pedigree, a great stadium and wonderful facilities, a very solid set of assistant coaches, a very solid academic profile, and our location,  our reputation with Texas HS recruits is somewhere between "safety net" and "non-existent". Their coaches and parents only know us as a school that is apathetic to football, that supporting the program is just not something our team gets a lot of from fans or the administration. They know we are gonna be dead last in DFW media coverage, if we even get any, on Saturday nights or Sunday morning.

The only way that changes is to have the administration publicly prove that the apathetic days are over. What we have done in the last 10 years, facilities-wise, is incredible. But what we have done on the field is abominable. As we see at Apogee and at The Super Pit, you can have wonderful venues to play a game, but fans won't come unless you are winning. And you aren't going to win unless you get the right combo of coach and talent. Right now, at UNT, getting that combo right has proven to be damn near impossible. And that is where the onus (anus??) is completely on Rick Villareal. All you are telling disinterested UNT fans, alumni, and potential recruits is that you are not committed to winning when they can see that the same AD for the last decade has watched us enjoy one winning season under the 4 head coaches he has led, not even counting Littrell. RV being the AD is merely the symptom to the bigger issue of complete apathy toward winning in revenue sports from the BOR and administration. So, even with all of the advantages that were listed here, none of them can be fully taken advantage of unless you fix the first issue. And its my contention that the clear majority of the UNT leadership, alumni base, faculty, student body, and local citizenry MUCH prefer that we keep our current approach to revenue sports than to change anything of major note towards how we both demand and fund a winner in those sports. The only way that changes is if the majority of UNT leadership ignores that mindset and charges forward anyway with trying to use winning in sports to become our primary window.

[UTSA Fan]

5 hours ago, UNT90 said:

UNT is like no other university out there. We aren't Boise St or Houston. We have never had a program defining win in a winning season. Ever. This program desperately needs it, but UNT has an AD that has publicly stated that he will never put UNT in a position. It's something that has NEVER occurred for UNT, and won't as long as Rick Villarreal is scheduling football games.

Its something that needs to happen, and needs to happen fairly quickly lest UNT be forced to drop down to FCS level competition. 

If RV will not, can't it happen in a bowl?

[UNT90]

27 minutes ago, UTSA Fan said:

If RV will not, can't it happen in a bowl?

Have you seen who we played in the last 5 bowl games? Could it? I guess, but the chances are very very low.

You also don't have home field advantage, meaning that victory is even more elusive in a bowl. 

[NTXCoog]

5 hours ago, UNT90 said:

An experienced coach that won at a place where no one had won before would be better equipped to handle the unique challenges at UNT. Does that guarantee success? Hell no, but putting in a career assistant with nothing but P5 experience because it is the trendy thing to do is a recipe for disaster... Unless Littrell can adapt and adjust at breakneck speed, something no one before him has been able to do (Dodge-high school; D Mac-P5 only). 

The fact that Dickey has been the most successful coach in UNT modern day history and was the only candidate that had previous G5 experience should says lot to you folks. 

Why it doesn't, I just don't know.

 

3 of UH's last 4 coaches that were considered very successful were P5 assistants (Briles, Sumlin, Herman).  The only one fired was an internal G5 assistant "continuity" hire (Levine).

Prior to that we had a G5 head coach that was a miserable failure (Dana Dimel).

With that said, I don't think there's a formula that will tell you what coach will be successful.  There are successful G5 coaches that were P5 assistants, G5 head coaches, lower division head coaches, high school coaches, NFL assistants or head coaches, P5 head coaches, etc.  There are also failures from each of those groups.  It's a matter of finding the right coach and giving them the right support.

[UNT90]

1 minute ago, NTXCoog said:

and giving them the right support.

Which doesn't happen at UNT. That is the difference. Littrell is basically AD/head coach. At the hardest job in FBS...

[Mike Jackson]

22 hours ago, NTXCoog said:

From 2000-2002, the UNT program might have been better than Houston.  Definitely better on the field.  The right coaching hire makes a huge difference.

A 2 year stretch out of 200 years of football history between the 2 schools?  Really?  A coach make a huge difference but even Nick Saban isn't transforming UNT as top dog in the state of Texas.  Yes a great coach and some stability programs like Baylor, Texas Tech, and TCU can still the spotlight from Texas marginally for a brief moment but all those team have SWC history.   They also have a long standing tradition of the alumni stepping up to plate and donating at big levels.   You don't Trump all that by running through a G5 conference (with no other Texas schools) a couple times undefeated.

[Mike Jackson]

9 hours ago, untjim1995 said:

And its my contention that the clear majority of the UNT leadership, alumni base, faculty, student body, and local citizenry MUCH prefer that we keep our current approach to revenue sports than to change anything of major note towards how we both demand and fund a winner in those sports. The only way that changes is if the majority of UNT leadership ignores that mindset and charges forward anyway with trying to use winning in sports to become our primary window.

THIS!!!!  RV is symbolic of a much bigger issue with UNT Athletics.  If isn't going to be a primary window to the university then stop throwing money at and asking alumni to do likewise.  Getting beaten on the field by UTSA, UTEP, Southern Miss and UTEP regularly is worse for your schools brand than dropping down to FCS and getting thumbed by P5 Texas schools.  At least then potential students and recruits don't expect your team to look like it belongs on the field with TAMU or UT Austin.  That is why they won't see a single dime of donation money to me until RV is gone.  He is symbolic of the "we don't give crap athletics" mentality.  The new president talks about it but if I were him, I would shut up about it.  Because the only action that match his rhetoric is firing RV.   So either he can't fire him because of the BOR directive or he really doesn't care.  Either way he should shut all the talk about winning down because it makes him look like a phony.

[UTSA Fan]

10 hours ago, Mike Jackson said:

THIS!!!!  RV is symbolic of a much bigger issue with UNT Athletics.  If isn't going to be a primary window to the university then stop throwing money at and asking alumni to do likewise.  Getting beaten on the field by UTSA, UTEP, Southern Miss and UTEP regularly is worse for your schools brand than dropping down to FCS and getting thumbed by P5 Texas schools.  At least then potential students and recruits don't expect your team to look like it belongs on the field with TAMU or UT Austin.  That is why they won't see a single dime of donation money to me until RV is gone.  He is symbolic of the "we don't give crap athletics" mentality.  The new president talks about it but if I were him, I would shut up about it.  Because the only action that match his rhetoric is firing RV.   So either he can't fire him because of the BOR directive or he really doesn't care.  Either way he should shut all the talk about winning down because it makes him look like a phony.

Is it your point that if your not going to care, then go FCS? If that's true and your FCS, why does branding matter? It seems branding is important if your trying to build\advance. If that's true, then your taking a step backward to FCS to build to move up to where you are now in G5. I'm not understanding something.

[the green rokemi]

look, whether we're following the Louisville model, the UNT model, or the Houston model, stalking is stalking. Aren't y'all paying attention to the Erin Andrews trial? sheesh

[Cr1028]

On ‎2‎/‎29‎/‎2016 at 8:23 PM, UTSA Fan said:

What if the team started stringing together winning seasons? Wouldn't that turn around the fan base like Houston?

[UTSA Fan]

1 hour ago, the green rokemi said:

look, whether we're following the Louisville model, the UNT model, or the Houston model, stalking is stalking. Aren't y'all paying attention to the Erin Andrews trial? sheesh

What exactly is the Louisville model?