If Cinicinnati Leaves AAC, Who Leaves CUSA To Backfill

drex · February 17, 2016

From what I understand it will cost SMU lots and lots of dollars to cancel this series...they'd have to buy out the entire 9 games left.

UTSA Fan · February 17, 2016

So, if SMU cancels this...I'm afraid to say this...then UTSA would get even more play as the rival game. Hide the women and children, heads would blow. :boom:

MeanGreenTexan · February 17, 2016

4 minutes ago, drex said:

From what I understand it will cost SMU lots and lots of dollars to cancel this series...they'd have to buy out the entire 9 games left.

I believe the deal was for a Apogee-Ford-Apogee series, then both teams must enter into "good faith" talks for 7 additional years. If SMU's "faith" is low, then the deal is over and there is no penalty, correct?

@Brett Vito, I don't know if you have time to ask someone in the Athletic Dept about details...

GreenTexan13 · February 17, 2016

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2016/2/16/11028162/big-12-expansion-cincinnati-byu-boise-state

UNTFan23 · February 17, 2016

1 hour ago, Army of Dad said:

That's not how that works...

Then how does it work? You can't just drop a game or a series on someone and leave the other school high and dry. You either help the other team find another team to play or you start looking at paying out extra money to compensate them (or in this case, UNT) for having to schedule a lesser opponent, which could even be another FCS school. This is why I feel like even if the series is dropped, it will be after 2020 because the likelihood both schools could finding a suitable replacement for 2017, 2018, and 2019 is quite small. In order for the series to be dropped, both schools must come to an agreement. No agreement to drop the series means the remaining games are still played.

Ben Gooding · February 17, 2016

2 hours ago, BillySee58 said:

SMU wouldn't let us in CUSA for years, and they did so successfully. I would imagine they would try to do the same here.

Probably so. That's when North Texas needs to flex its muscles and force their way in however so.

Army of Dad · February 17, 2016

11 minutes ago, UNTFan23 said:

Then how does it work? You can't just drop a game or a series on someone and leave the other school high and dry. You either help the other team find another team to play or you start looking at paying out extra money to compensate them (or in this case, UNT) for having to schedule a lesser opponent, which could even be another FCS school. This is why I feel like even if the series is dropped, it will be after 2020 because the likelihood both schools could finding a suitable replacement for 2017, 2018, and 2019 is quite small. In order for the series to be dropped, both schools must come to an agreement. No agreement to drop the series means the remaining games are still played.

How it works is spelled out in the contract(s). From what I've seen reported in other instances it's usually a predetermined payment to opt out.

In the case of the SMU series I don't recall a well detailed report of the opt out clauses. It's certainly possible that there is no buyout required of either party after a certain number of years, though I think it most likely the school opting out will be required to pay a fee to do so.

I can't recall ever hearing about a team opting out of a game or series and having to find replacement games for ther opponent. That falls on the team with the hole in their schedule and they will likely use the opt out payment to pay to whichever school they schedule on short notice.

MJavierSMU · February 17, 2016

2 hours ago, BillySee58 said:

SMU wouldn't let us in CUSA for years, and they did so successfully. I would imagine they would try to do the same here.

In all my years around SMU, this board is the only place I've heard this. When has SMU ever been in a position to keep a school out of a conference? If the president of the WAC, C-USA or AAC felt UNT was a good school to add, I'm sure it would have happened. Plus, SMU would have only one vote like all the other schools. We certainly can't strong arm a conference like UT or OU. It's flattering to think we have that much power, but we don't.

29 minutes ago, Army of Dad said:

How it works is spelled out in the contract(s). From what I've seen reported in other instances it's usually a predetermined payment to opt out.

In the case of the SMU series I don't recall a well detailed report of the opt out clauses. It's certainly possible that there is no buyout required of either party after a certain number of years, though I think it most likely the school opting out will be required to pay a fee to do so.

I can't recall ever hearing about a team opting out of a game or series and having to find replacement games for ther opponent. That falls on the team with the hole in their schedule and they will likely use the opt out payment to pay to whichever school they schedule on short notice.

I was told there is no buyout. I believe either school can opt out if they want.

Edited February 17, 2016 by MJavierSMU

GrandGreen · February 18, 2016

3 hours ago, MJavierSMU said:

It really has nothing to do with ego. SMU is just like UH, Cincinnati, Memphis and UConn in that our goal is to get into a P5 conference. The next three to five years are vital. Every OOC game is extremely important and any G5 school that wants to move up should schedule accordingly. It's not that SMU is above playing UNT. It just does nothing for us, and it really does nothing for UNT to play SMU.

Based on opponent fans coming to games, it has done a lot more for SMU than NT. It also provides an annual local game for both programs. Although based on the one Denton game, SMU brought less fans than a distance Belt club.

Unfortunately for SMU, it is hard to buy your way into the big boys club. Playing P5 will only help SMU if the mustangs are competitive and can actual get their own fans to the games. A history of cheating and dismal support is not going to impress many.

TreeFiddy · February 18, 2016

This series gives our Dallas fan base a game they can travel to, plus it is a home game for our UNT Dallas campus. Win Win.

emmitt01 · February 18, 2016

3 hours ago, MJavierSMU said:

It really has nothing to do with ego. SMU is just like UH, Cincinnati, Memphis and UConn in that our goal is to get into a P5 conference. The next three to five years are vital. Every OOC game is extremely important and any G5 school that wants to move up should schedule accordingly. It's not that SMU is above playing UNT. It just does nothing for us, and it really does nothing for UNT to play SMU.

Sorry, you lost me (and everyone outside of University Park) with the bolded part. If you think that playing North Texas is what is keeping you out of a P5 conference I don't know what to tell you. Well, other than "Jesus Christ you paid WAAAAAAYYYY too much for that SMU education! You didn't learn a damn thing...hahahahaha, are you f'in kidding me?!! SMU? In a P5? That's a great one...oh wait, you were serious? Oh man, seek professional help...like, now"

TreeFiddy · February 18, 2016

7 minutes ago, emmitt01 said:

Sorry, you lost me (and everyone outside of University Park) with the bolded part. If you think that playing North Texas is what is keeping you out of a P5 conference I don't know what to tell you. Well, other than "Jesus Christ you paid WAAAAAAYYYY too much for that SMU education! You didn't learn a damn thing...hahahahaha, are you f'in kidding me?!! SMU? In a P5? That's a great one...oh wait, you were serious? Oh man, seek professional help...like, now"

Good lord. So much this.

Sorry MJ. I appreciate your optimism, a rare quality around here, but I think smoo faces an extreme uphill battle if it wants to change its current place in the pecking order.

MJavierSMU · February 18, 2016

25 minutes ago, TreeFiddy said:

Good lord. So much this.

Sorry MJ. I appreciate your optimism, a rare quality around here, but I think smoo faces an extreme uphill battle if it wants to change its current place in the pecking order.

There's no doubt it will be an uphill battle. We have arrived in basketball and the program is only getting stronger. If Morris can turnaround football, again no easy task, we will have a strong resume. We have the market, the history of competing at the highest level (78 years in the SWC) and we finally have the full commitment of the administration.

Another poster mentioned something about buying our way into a P5. There are plenty of private schools with more money than SMU - Rice, Tulane and all the Ivy League schools. That has very little to do with it. It's mostly about performance and what your market can deliver.

Edited February 18, 2016 by MJavierSMU

foutsrouts · February 18, 2016

4 minutes ago, MJavierSMU said:

There's no doubt it will be an uphill battle. We have arrived in basketball and the program is only getting stronger. If Morris can turnaround football, again no easy task, we will have a strong resume. We have the market, the history of competing at the highest level (78 years in the SWC) and we finally have the full commitment of the administration.

Another poster mentioned something about buying our way into a P5. There are plenty of private schools with more money than SMU - Rice, Tulane and all the Ivy League schools. That has very little to do with it. It's mostly about performance and what your market can deliver.

A program "getting stronger" doesn't usually include post-season bans.

Ben Gooding · February 18, 2016

1 minute ago, MJavierSMU said:

There's no doubt it will be an uphill battle. We have arrived in basketball and the program is only getting stronger. If Morris can turnaround football, again no easy task, we will have a strong resume. We have the market, the history of competing at the highest level and we finally have the full commitment of the administration.

Another poster mentioned something about buying our way into a P5. There are plenty of private schools with more money than SMU - Rice, Tulane and all the Ivy League schools. That has very little to do with it. It's mostly about performance and what your market can deliver.

Your market? There is no market in Dallas, Texas for a collegiate program. The Cowboys rule the roost followed by the Mavs and Rangers. Trailing those 3 by a HUGE margin is TCU over in Fort Worth.

Oh, and your basketball program is where its at by 1 reason..cheating. The same cheating coach who shows no remorse for even getting caught and has all but openly said he's not changing how he and his staff run things. The most sucess smut has had in both football and basketball has been fueled by cheating. Let that sink in. It's well documented.

MJavierSMU · February 18, 2016

19 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

Your market? There is no market in Dallas, Texas for a collegiate program. The Cowboys rule the roost followed by the Mavs and Rangers. Trailing those 3 by a HUGE margin is TCU over in Fort Worth.

Oh, and your basketball program is where its at by 1 reason..cheating. The same cheating coach who shows no remorse for even getting caught and has all but openly said he's not changing how he and his staff run things. The most sucess smut has had in both football and basketball has been fueled by cheating. Let that sink in. It's well documented.

Yes, Dallas is our market and it will always be a pro town but It's all about tv. Why do you think the Big 10 invited Rutgers?

As for the cheating, that's fine. The "cheating" involved one player and he is no longer here. The current success we've had and are having had nothing to do with cheating. The program currently sits better than it ever has. This year's recruiting class will be the best under Larry.

BTW, SMU basketball made it to the final four and there was no cheating. And SMU football won the national championship and there was no cheating involved.

Edited February 18, 2016 by MJavierSMU

emmitt01 · February 18, 2016

Just now, MJavierSMU said:

Yes, Dallas is our market and it will always be a pro town but It's all about tv. Why do you think the Big 10 invited Rutgers?

As for the cheating, that's fine. The "cheating" involved one player and he is no longer here. The current success we've had and are having had nothing to do with cheating. The program currently sits better than it ever has. This year's recruiting class will be the best under Larry.

Sure. Tell yourself that recruits (who would have historically never given SMU a second look) all of a sudden wanted to come to SMU because of a new coach...and that the fact he left TWO schools holding the bag after his cheating was discovered isn't relevant.

Again, WAY overpaid for that hilltop learnin'

VideoEagle · February 18, 2016

Where to start. First, post season bans seem to follow Larry Brown everywhere he's been before so it's not surprising it followed him to SMU.

Next, I don't think SMU "blocked" NT from joining CUSA. Based on what was said at the time and both written and said since back in 2005 it was our poor facilities more than anything else that kept us out. It was basically down to UTEP, La Tech and NT and UTEP was far ahead of the other two at that point. Yes, SMU expressed a desire for La Tech then, but you'll notice La Tech didn't make the cut either.

SMU had one vote and no schools in CUSA had then nor have now veto power. Frankly we weren't ready yet from facilities, salaries, etc. If it was about wins and losses, then we'd have been chosen over UTEP as we were in a four year conference winning streak. That's painful, but true.

As for SMU joining a P5 conference, I can't think of anyone who's been invited up solely based on a strong basketball program. I might just be missing one, but I don't know of one. TCU both won and increased their attendance AND dramatically increased their budget. SMU can manage the budget increase, but the other two they haven't done as of yet. Not saying never, just they haven't done it yet.

MJavierSMU · February 18, 2016

2 minutes ago, emmitt01 said:

Sure. Tell yourself that recruits (who would have historically never given SMU a second look) all of a sudden wanted to come to SMU because of a new coach...and that the fact he left TWO schools holding the bag after his cheating was discovered isn't relevant.

Again, WAY overpaid for that hilltop learnin'

The coach is a legend, who is like a father figure to Allen Iverson, so yeah, it definitely gets SMU second looks from elite recruits.

As for Larry's history, you must not be aware of what happened at UCLA or Kansas. This recent article tells the story that most don't know, or don't want to know, about those stops.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2616242-banned-from-the-ncaa-tournament-larry-brown-and-smu-fight-to-regain-their-pride

TreeFiddy · February 18, 2016

MJ, what is the story with the TCU series. It is not on the schedule past 2018. Is there a high likelihood that it doesn't get extended?

It looks like this year's TCU game and the one in 2018 are the only P5 programs smoo currently has scheduled at home. Otherwise, it's a steady stream of TxSt, Liberty, Stephen F Austin, and Abilene Christian outside of the UNT series at home. Is it getting tougher to get the P5's to come to Ford?

MJavierSMU · February 18, 2016

3 minutes ago, TreeFiddy said:

MJ, what is the story with the TCU series. It is not on the schedule past 2018. Is there a high likelihood that it doesn't get extended?

It looks like this year's TCU game and the one in 2018 are the only P5 programs smoo currently has scheduled at home. Otherwise, it's a steady stream of TxSt, Liberty, Stephen F Austin, and Abilene Christian outside of the UNT series at home. Is it getting tougher to get the P5's to come to Ford?

I was told Hart and Del Conte have agreed to extend the series. It just hasn't been announced. Del Conte is on record saying as long as he is the AD, TCU will play SMU every year. Baylor and Tech are the two we are trying to get moving forward. The D2 schools you mentioned are sprinkled in to get a supposed easy win, but that isn't always the case, see James Madison.

It's not tough at all getting schools to come to Ford. They see it as an easy win and the chance to play in front of Dallas area recruits. It's the compete opposite with Moody. It is next to impossible right now for us to get a P5 school to do a home-home. Arkansas, Michigan and Gonzaga (not a P5 but an elite bball school) are the only three during Larry's tenure to visit Moody and we are having a lot of trouble finding takers moving forward.

TreeFiddy · February 18, 2016

18 minutes ago, MJavierSMU said:

I was told Hart and Del Conte have agreed to extend the series. It just hasn't been announced. Del Conte is on record saying as long as he is the AD, TCU will play SMU every year. Baylor and Tech are the two we are trying to get moving forward. The D2 schools you mentioned are sprinkled in to get a supposed easy win, but that isn't always the case, see James Madison.

It's not tough at all getting schools to come to Ford. They see it as an easy win and the chance to play in front of Dallas area recruits. It's the compete opposite with Moody. It is next to impossible right now for us to get a P5 school to do a home-home. Arkansas, Michigan and Gonzaga (not a P5 but an elite bball school) are the only three during Larry's tenure to visit Moody and we are having a lot of trouble finding takers moving forward.

We also have a little experience with paying a school to come kick us in the nuts at home.

GangGreen · February 18, 2016

The more appropriate question is, "Which P5 would take SMU?".

Rudy · February 18, 2016

10 hours ago, TreeFiddy said:

We also have a little experience with paying a school to come kick us in the nuts at home.

+1 for your screen name.

Eagle-96 · February 18, 2016

12 hours ago, MJavierSMU said:

Yes, Dallas is our market and it will always be a pro town but It's all about tv. Why do you think the Big 10 invited Rutgers?

As for the cheating, that's fine. The "cheating" involved one player and he is no longer here. The current success we've had and are having had nothing to do with cheating. The program currently sits better than it ever has. This year's recruiting class will be the best under Larry.

BTW, SMU basketball made it to the final four and there was no cheating. And SMU football won the national championship and there was no cheating involved.

Wow. Dallas could not care less about SMU sports. They really couldn't. If you think Dallas cares about SMU athletics then I can't help you. I really can't.

National Championship? Seriously? You're really gonna claim that? I'm embarrassed for you.

"The 1935 Mustangs were crowned national champions by Frank Dickinson a nationally respected economics professor at the University of Illinois. Although Minnesota was proclaimed the 1935 national champion by the AP and UPI polls, SMU usually claims the 1935 national title without qualification, even though they lost the Rose Bowl."

That's the weakest argument for winning a National Championship ever. Bar none.

SMU basketball made the Final Four 60 years ago. 60 YEARS AGO. Might want to put that one in the attic and stop puffing your chest out about that one. Larry will ride off into the sunset

For the record, UNT athletics is abysmal in the revenue sports. We get even less attention in DFW than SMU if that is even possible. I am not saying we are better than SMU, because right now we are not. But don't come here claiming how great SMU is. We're the last two kids on the playground getting picked for teams. Just because you are less terrible than we are does not make you great.