Conference Foes future OOC home schedules

MGNation92 · February 16, 2016

3 minutes ago, flyonthewall said:

It has been discussed here ad nauseum, but here is my reasoning.

Football: Todd Dodge. There were two other finalist, but the president at that time would not allow him to spend the money, so the default was dodge. You can spin it, bitch about it, say I am lying, whatever, but this is the honest to gods truth.

Dan McCarney: Hired a consulting service to get the best possible candidate based on budget and other parameters. This hire looked golden on January 1, 2014, then twisted into the toilet bowl rapidly. Was given contract extension at this time, in hindsight, ill advised.

Seth Littrell: For the first time, budget was removed as a parameter, was told "Go bring us the guy that you want". From the beginning Littrell was in the top 3. It should be noted that we did not pay close to what we were willing to spend for Littrell, which leaves more money for assisants.

Basketball: Hired two coaches. Johnny Jones walked out on his two feet, Benford...........reserving comment. see previous thought "praise in public, criticize in private"

Women's Basketball: Shanice Stevens. Again, Dr. Bataille controlled the parameters of this hire, that is all I will say

Karen Aston: Great hire or bad hire? On one hand, there is no telling what she would have accomplished here, because she has the lady longhorns ranked 8th in the country at 22-2

Mike Peterson: Mind blowing how bad he was here

Shanice: jury is out.

So here is your big donor logic. Hands were tied with Dodge, not enough money given when McCarney was hired, love Littrell

Womens basketball, Aston took one of the few jobs she was going to take, and if Texas had not come calling when they did, Womens basketball would look a whole lot different now.

Mens Basketball: 50/50 on hiring, however, I think Jones underachieved.

Business leaders hire and fire people all of the time, so the above does not bother people who are used to doing this. Only recently have we had the infrastructure to justify being successful in anything, ie basketball facility upgrades, practice facility, etc. Apogee, etc. Smart people know to be patient and that continuity helps breed success.

I can not argue about wins and losses. Bill Parcells said once "You are what your record says you are". But a few people have invested millions in this thing, and they want to see it through with the guy that sold them on it.

Can't wait for the backlash this open and honest post is going to bring. There is not satire or kidding here. This is the first straight up post I have written in a while.

Thank you for answering my question. I am personally having a hard time investing in UNT Athletics, and was legitimately trying to find the reasoning in it. It's good to see the logic and perspective from a large money donor.

VideoEagle · February 16, 2016

2 hours ago, flyonthewall said:

It really all comes down to wins and losses, because everything else is in place. There are no excuses left. Coaches have facilities to use and recruit to, kids have nice facilities, time to win

I don't understand why so many have such a hard time with this concept. Until recently, NT had poor facilities, low coaching salaries, was in several terrible conferences and used a deadly football schedule to pay for what little it did. Over the past 15 years, ONE AT A TIME, these things have been fixed or at the very least significantly upgraded. Yes, there are still improvements to be made, but every single one of those items is now better than it was 15 years ago.

It has taken a long, long, LONG time to get rid of the various reasons that some call excuses. But the University of Texas has proven that even with the best of facilities, virtually unlimited coaching budgets and other advantages it still takes a while to build winning teams. Calling every reason something doesn't happen an "excuse" doesn't fix any problems, it merely attempts to assign blame and assigning blame has never done anything to actually fix a problem. It's just worthless whining.

NT has now fixed the reasons winning was such an uphill battle and now it is time to produce. Last season when it was obvious the football coach wasn't going to be able to produce - not just for a single season or two as EVERY COACH IN THE WORLD HAS SOME DOWN SEASONS - he was fired. I don't know, but I suspect our basketball coach needs to improve this season or he will be gone.

It has take time to get here, but now it really does come down to the wins and losses.

flyonthewall · February 16, 2016

1 minute ago, VideoEagle said:

I don't understand why so many have such a hard time with this concept. Until recently, NT had poor facilities, low coaching salaries, was in several terrible conferences and used a deadly football schedule to pay for what little it did. Over the past 15 years, ONE AT A TIME, these things have been fixed or at the very least significantly upgraded. Yes, there are still improvements to be made, but every single one of those items is now better than it was 15 years ago.

It has taken a long, long, LONG time to get rid of the various reasons that some call excuses. But the University of Texas has proven that even with the best of facilities, virtually unlimited coaching budgets and other advantages it still takes a while to build winning teams. Calling every reason something doesn't happen an "excuse" doesn't fix any problems, it merely attempts to assign blame and assigning blame has never done anything to actually fix a problem. It's just worthless whining.

NT has now fixed the reasons winning was such an uphill battle and now it is time to produce. Last season when it was obvious the football coach wasn't going to be able to produce - not just for a single season or two as EVERY COACH IN THE WORLD HAS SOME DOWN SEASONS - he was fired. I don't know, but I suspect our basketball coach needs to improve this season or he will be gone.

It has take time to get here, but now it really does come down to the wins and losses.

thank you

8 minutes ago, MGNation92 said:

Thank you for answering my question. I am personally having a hard time investing in UNT Athletics, and was legitimately trying to find the reasoning in it. It's good to see the logic and perspective from a large money donor.

to say it another way and quote my friend Don Lovelace, "The only way to eat an elephant is one bite at a time"

HarringtonFishSmeller · February 16, 2016

22 minutes ago, flyonthewall said:

It has been discussed here ad nauseum, but here is my reasoning.

Football: Todd Dodge. There were two other finalist, but the president at that time would not allow him to spend the money, so the default was dodge. You can spin it, bitch about it, say I am lying, whatever, but this is the honest to gods truth.

Dan McCarney: Hired a consulting service to get the best possible candidate based on budget and other parameters. This hire looked golden on January 1, 2014, then twisted into the toilet bowl rapidly. Was given contract extension at this time, in hindsight, ill advised.

Seth Littrell: For the first time, budget was removed as a parameter, was told "Go bring us the guy that you want". From the beginning Littrell was in the top 3. It should be noted that we did not pay close to what we were willing to spend for Littrell, which leaves more money for assisants.

Basketball: Hired two coaches. Johnny Jones walked out on his two feet, Benford...........reserving comment. see previous thought "praise in public, criticize in private"

Women's Basketball: Shanice Stevens. Again, Dr. Bataille controlled the parameters of this hire, that is all I will say

Karen Aston: Great hire or bad hire? On one hand, there is no telling what she would have accomplished here, because she has the lady longhorns ranked 8th in the country at 22-2

Mike Peterson: Mind blowing how bad he was here

Shanice: jury is out.

So here is your big donor logic. Hands were tied with Dodge, not enough money given when McCarney was hired, love Littrell

Womens basketball, Aston took one of the few jobs she was going to take, and if Texas had not come calling when they did, Womens basketball would look a whole lot different now.

Mens Basketball: 50/50 on hiring, however, I think Jones underachieved.

Business leaders hire and fire people all of the time, so the above does not bother people who are used to doing this. Only recently have we had the infrastructure to justify being successful in anything, ie basketball facility upgrades, practice facility, etc. Apogee, etc. Smart people know to be patient and that continuity helps breed success.

I can not argue about wins and losses. Bill Parcells said once "You are what your record says you are". But a few people have invested millions in this thing, and they want to see it through with the guy that sold them on it.

Can't wait for the backlash this open and honest post is going to bring. There is not satire or kidding here. This is the first straight up post I have written in a while.

I like what RV has done because I've seen the athletic program now compared to when I set foot on campus in August 1990.

By the time RV arrived, severe damage had already been done for 30 years prior to his hire. He has undone much of that damage by restoring academic achievement and garnering donors that help build fantastic athletic facilities for every sport, men's and women's.

That the football team continues to lose is glaring. Basketball was never a power, so I don't always get the bitching and moaning about it.

I think it's wholly laughable, these days, to say RV has done nothing. It's just not true. He's done far beyond what many of us believed anyone could do. During the Dodge years, I was a huge RV detractor.

What turned me is that he called me personally and after a frank discussion, he admitted he was wrong about Dodge and told me to just watch what would happen over the next few years. I was skeptical. But, you know what? He delivered the facilities. He hired an experience coach, who did take us to another bowl game and won it.

Guys, sorry...you can judge many people in business by their perceived failures, while purposely ignoring their achievements. However, RV has done much more here right than "wrong."

If you can do better, volunteer to help the fundraising arm and get your own ass out there. I could in no way do better, so I'm not criticizing him any longer. He's brought this athletic department far out of the ditch where it had been left to rot by prior administrations and athletic directors.

UNT athletics 2016 is on a different planet that UNT athletics 1990. And, we have RV to thank for it.

If you can't admit that, then go hug a gopher's lopsided left nut.

Edited February 16, 2016 by HarringtonFishSmeller

NT93 · February 16, 2016

19 minutes ago, flyonthewall said:

It has been discussed here ad nauseum, but here is my reasoning.

Football: Todd Dodge. There were two other finalist, but the president at that time would not allow him to spend the money, so the default was dodge. You can spin it, bitch about it, say I am lying, whatever, but this is the honest to gods truth.

Dan McCarney: Hired a consulting service to get the best possible candidate based on budget and other parameters. This hire looked golden on January 1, 2014, then twisted into the toilet bowl rapidly. Was given contract extension at this time, in hindsight, ill advised.

Seth Littrell: For the first time, budget was removed as a parameter, was told "Go bring us the guy that you want". From the beginning Littrell was in the top 3. It should be noted that we did not pay close to what we were willing to spend for Littrell, which leaves more money for assisants.

Basketball: Hired two coaches. Johnny Jones walked out on his two feet, Benford...........reserving comment. see previous thought "praise in public, criticize in private"

Women's Basketball: Shanice Stevens. Again, Dr. Bataille controlled the parameters of this hire, that is all I will say

Karen Aston: Great hire or bad hire? On one hand, there is no telling what she would have accomplished here, because she has the lady longhorns ranked 8th in the country at 22-2

Mike Peterson: Mind blowing how bad he was here

Shanice: jury is out, But she is the only coach in recent program hell maybe forever, that can say she is 1-0 this season against the top 25

So here is your big donor logic. Hands were tied with Dodge, not enough money given when McCarney was hired, love Littrell

Womens basketball, Aston took one of the few jobs she was going to take, and if Texas had not come calling when they did, Womens basketball would look a whole lot different now.

Mens Basketball: 50/50 on hiring, however, I think Jones underachieved.

Business leaders hire and fire people all of the time, so the above does not bother people who are used to doing this. Only recently have we had the infrastructure to justify being successful in anything, ie basketball facility upgrades, practice facility, etc. Apogee, etc. Smart people know to be patient and that continuity helps breed success.

I can not argue about wins and losses. Bill Parcells said once "You are what your record says you are". But a few people have invested millions in this thing, and they want to see it through with the guy that sold them on it.

Can't wait for the backlash this open and honest post is going to bring. There is not satire or kidding here. This is the first straight up post I have written in a while.

While I completely get what you're saying in bold, I can't help but think of Jerry Jones and how sometimes his loyalty to players cost him (ie, resigning players when it was time to let them go). Better to part ways too soon rather than too late.

That being said, I do appreciate the honestly and forthrightness of your post.

Army of Dad · February 16, 2016

26 minutes ago, flyonthewall said:

It has been discussed here ad nauseum, but here is my reasoning.

Football: Todd Dodge. There were two other finalist, but the president at that time would not allow him to spend the money, so the default was dodge. You can spin it, bitch about it, say I am lying, whatever, but this is the honest to gods truth.

Dan McCarney: Hired a consulting service to get the best possible candidate based on budget and other parameters. This hire looked golden on January 1, 2014, then twisted into the toilet bowl rapidly. Was given contract extension at this time, in hindsight, ill advised.

Seth Littrell: For the first time, budget was removed as a parameter, was told "Go bring us the guy that you want". From the beginning Littrell was in the top 3. It should be noted that we did not pay close to what we were willing to spend for Littrell, which leaves more money for assisants.

Basketball: Hired two coaches. Johnny Jones walked out on his two feet, Benford...........reserving comment. see previous thought "praise in public, criticize in private"

Women's Basketball: Shanice Stevens. Again, Dr. Bataille controlled the parameters of this hire, that is all I will say

Karen Aston: Great hire or bad hire? On one hand, there is no telling what she would have accomplished here, because she has the lady longhorns ranked 8th in the country at 22-2

Mike Peterson: Mind blowing how bad he was here

Shanice: jury is out, But she is the only coach in recent program hell maybe forever, that can say she is 1-0 this season against the top 25

So here is your big donor logic. Hands were tied with Dodge, not enough money given when McCarney was hired, love Littrell

Womens basketball, Aston took one of the few jobs she was going to take, and if Texas had not come calling when they did, Womens basketball would look a whole lot different now.

Mens Basketball: 50/50 on hiring, however, I think Jones underachieved.

Business leaders hire and fire people all of the time, so the above does not bother people who are used to doing this. Only recently have we had the infrastructure to justify being successful in anything, ie basketball facility upgrades, practice facility, etc. Apogee, etc. Smart people know to be patient and that continuity helps breed success.

I can not argue about wins and losses. Bill Parcells said once "You are what your record says you are". But a few people have invested millions in this thing, and they want to see it through with the guy that sold them on it.

Can't wait for the backlash this open and honest post is going to bring. There is not satire or kidding here. This is the first straight up post I have written in a while.

I appreciate the post. What I don't like is how anything bad isn't RV's doing. The buck has to stop somewhere and it should stop at his desk. I certainly respect that you've bought in to RV's vision in a big way and I'm glad you've done so and find value in the act of giving.

I view RV as a no better than a (pardon the saber metric phrase) replacement level AD. A truly valuable AD would have done better on at least half of those hires because he/she can find talent that fits their budget.

Of course that doesn't address the more easily controlled for issues his department has on a regular basis and only addresses W-L for his "big 3" sports. Even if you remove the games against power teams the record remains abysmal.

NorthTexan95 · February 16, 2016

The old saying is that given enough time and money, anything is possible. RV seems to be following this logic. Unfortunately, we have neither.

I don't give RV a pass on previous hires. Even if he wasn't "setting the parameters" he was the one picking the names within those parameters. Very few schools are able to spend whatever they want, whenever they want to hire coaches so our situation isn't unusual. He also didn't fire up a red flag when Dodge wanted to bring in an entire high school staff.

We've also had fiascos with the ticket office time after time after time. Season ticket sales are still abysmal. Remember the issue with tickets to the HoD bowl game? Also, there are many who simply do not trust the AD office to get donated money to where it belongs. The entire AD office doesn't seem to be able to manage things as they should.

Are we much better off than we were when RV got here? Yes, but we should be much farther along than we are. Facilities are nice but our basketball program would be in a much better situation if we were making the NCAA tourney every few years rather than having new practice court. We would be better off with 8,000 football season ticket holders than a new center court for tennis. We would be better off with 100 key givers than "17". We would be better off with an AD would could manage the AD office effectively and knows how to spell rather than to have an AD that allows the SID to tick-off fans and uses the introduction of a new football coach to defend himself.

I think RV is solid AD for a FCS school or a school that is fine at its current level. However, this job as grown past RV's ability to run and for us to reach the next level we need someone better.

flyonthewall · February 16, 2016

I have never said that R.V. doesn't have his faults. He has hired Dodge, Stephens, Aston, McCarney, Peterson, Benford, Stephens, littrell

Dodge, hands tied. A for being an ambassador, was awesome at private stadium events, and help sell it like you couldn't imagine. F for on field results

Stephens. F, F, F, can you give an F-?

Aston A for the time she was here, was awesome at private fundraising functions, really sold the program and its potential, and still believes in it today and stays in contact

McCarney, believe it or not, going to give him an overall B. He is one of few coaches in history that one a bowl game here, and it was on New years day, in the cotton bowl.

Peterson F,F,F great guy though and fun to play golf with

Benford will not grade current coaches, see w-l record, you are what you are

Stephens A so far. overachieving with 7 to 8 person bench only coach in history to defeat a top 25 team (7th at the time and still in the top 25 today)

Littrell, incomplete

NorthTexan95 · February 16, 2016

2 minutes ago, flyonthewall said:

I have never said that R.V. doesn't have his faults. He has hired Dodge, Stephens, Aston, McCarney, Peterson, Benford, Stephens, littrell

Dodge, hands tied. A for being an ambassador, was awesome at private stadium events, and help sell it like you couldn't imagine. F for on field results

Stephens. F, F, F, can you give an F-?

Aston A for the time she was here, was awesome at private fundraising functions, really sold the program and its potential, and still believes in it today and stays in contact

McCarney, believe it or not, going to give him an overall B. He is one of few coaches in history that one a bowl game here, and it was on New years day, in the cotton bowl.

Peterson F,F,F great guy though and fun to play golf with

Benford will not grade current coaches, see w-l record, you are what you are

Stephens A so far. overachieving with 7 to 8 person bench only coach in history to defeat a top 25 team (7th at the time and still in the top 25 today)

Littrell, incomplete

Aston broke my heart when she left. I really thought we'd have her for a 3-4 years at least. She would have been great for us. *sigh*

97and03 · February 16, 2016

@flyonthewall You keep confusing Jalie Mitchell, alumnus and current coach with former coach Shanice Stephens.

Ben Gooding · February 16, 2016

1 hour ago, flyonthewall said:

It has been discussed here ad nauseum, but here is my reasoning.

Football: Todd Dodge. There were two other finalist, but the president at that time would not allow him to spend the money, so the default was dodge. You can spin it, bitch about it, say I am lying, whatever, but this is the honest to gods truth.

Dan McCarney: Hired a consulting service to get the best possible candidate based on budget and other parameters. This hire looked golden on January 1, 2014, then twisted into the toilet bowl rapidly. Was given contract extension at this time, in hindsight, ill advised.

Seth Littrell: For the first time, budget was removed as a parameter, was told "Go bring us the guy that you want". From the beginning Littrell was in the top 3. It should be noted that we did not pay close to what we were willing to spend for Littrell, which leaves more money for assisants.

Basketball: Hired two coaches. Johnny Jones walked out on his two feet, Benford...........reserving comment. see previous thought "praise in public, criticize in private"

Women's Basketball: Shanice Stevens. Again, Dr. Bataille controlled the parameters of this hire, that is all I will say

Karen Aston: Great hire or bad hire? On one hand, there is no telling what she would have accomplished here, because she has the lady longhorns ranked 8th in the country at 22-2

Mike Peterson: Mind blowing how bad he was here

Shanice: jury is out, But she is the only coach in recent program hell maybe forever, that can say she is 1-0 this season against the top 25

So here is your big donor logic. Hands were tied with Dodge, not enough money given when McCarney was hired, love Littrell

Womens basketball, Aston took one of the few jobs she was going to take, and if Texas had not come calling when they did, Womens basketball would look a whole lot different now.

Mens Basketball: 50/50 on hiring, however, I think Jones underachieved.

Business leaders hire and fire people all of the time, so the above does not bother people who are used to doing this. Only recently have we had the infrastructure to justify being successful in anything, ie basketball facility upgrades, practice facility, etc. Apogee, etc. Smart people know to be patient and that continuity helps breed success.

I can not argue about wins and losses. Bill Parcells said once "You are what your record says you are". But a few people have invested millions in this thing, and they want to see it through with the guy that sold them on it.

Can't wait for the backlash this open and honest post is going to bring. There is not satire or kidding here. This is the first straight up post I have written in a while.

I applaud your forthcoming post.

However, there are always to connections to failure and you can link anything or anyone to that failure. The issue is that RV in large party has been a failure of an AD. I think Billy posted it yesterday...-147 under .500 over the last decade in women's bball, men's bball, and football. It's great that, "people want to see it through." The fans of North Texas are fed up and don't care about that. As for patience, you must be kidding. It's been a decade of losing. That's pretty damn patient. And regardless of the big donors he has been able to swindle and pimp, our MGC levels are atrocious. He has a handful of guys funneling money into the program because to be honest that is easier work for him and for the AD. Whatever money he can't squeeze out of you guys, he throws our guys to the wolves. Getting 4,000 people to give $500 is much harder than getting 5 to give 400K. It's the RV way; The easy way. The problem with that approach is that it serves up 10,000 people sitting in Apogee on a Saturday afternoon because of the minimal amount of donors. In hand, it is killing the program. Fouts frequently averaged better than what we previously did this year in football.

It was refreshing to read your insight into the programs, but it was a lot of deflection to be honest. There is a time to draw a line in the sand, even for the big donors.

Watching this unfold has been the single worst drama I have ever witnessed. You pour who knows how much money into this thing and you have gotten nothing in return. You have money so you must be very keen on ROI. What has your ROI been? We all know what it has been. The public practically has an open eye on your North Texas portfolio and believe me when I say this, It's ugly.

NM Green · February 16, 2016

A refreshing post in many ways because I do feel UNT has come a long way. With that said I also feel a change at the AD level is beyond due. It will happen when his contract is up and until then it appears a lot of power has been pulled from his hands and that is a good thing for UNT and us fans. But the power has to be intoxicating. Much like Washington people who gain access and visibility are not quick to let it go. In fact they fight tooth and nail to stay in the inner circle. The problem is our leader inside the circle is weak and needs to go. But the power is intoxicating.

Raise your bar big money donors. Don't think small. Think of how sweet and amazing it will be to be inside of the inner circle of a winning program. You have power of influence here and I hope you choose to use it for good. Put more demands on this guy like the power programs do. UNT is a goldmine of opportunity but it will take a peppering demand from all sides to get the most out of the controller. Smastrek does it, the fans are doing it, the 17 need to do it and I know we will ascend to a greater place.

GMG

UNTLifer · February 16, 2016

1 hour ago, HarringtonFishSmeller said:

I like what RV has done because I've seen the athletic program now compared to when I set foot on campus in August 1990.

By the time RV arrived, severe damage had already been done for 30 years prior to his hire. He has undone much of that damage by restoring academic achievement and garnering donors that help build fantastic athletic facilities for every sport, men's and women's.

That the football team continues to lose is glaring. Basketball was never a power, so I don't always get the bitching and moaning about it.

I think it's wholly laughable, these days, to say RV has done nothing. It's just not true. He's done far beyond what many of us believed anyone could do. During the Dodge years, I was a huge RV detractor.

What turned me is that he called me personally and after a frank discussion, he admitted he was wrong about Dodge and told me to just watch what would happen over the next few years. I was skeptical. But, you know what? He delivered the facilities. He hired an experience coach, who did take us to another bowl game and won it.

Guys, sorry...you can judge many people in business by their perceived failures, while purposely ignoring their achievements. However, RV has done much more here right than "wrong."

If you can do better, volunteer to help the fundraising arm and get your own ass out there. I could in no way do better, so I'm not criticizing him any longer. He's brought this athletic department far out of the ditch where it had been left to rot by prior administrations and athletic directors.

UNT athletics 2016 is on a different planet that UNT athletics 1990. And, we have RV to thank for it.

If you can't admit that, then go hug a gopher's lopsided left nut.

First, thank you "flyonthewall" for setting the record straight.

This post above is 99% on target. The part in bold is off target if you look at our history. Very good teams back in the Snake Pit/Missouri Valley Conference days and during the Blakely era of the 70's. Hit and miss since then with a few Southland titles and Johnny Jones late run in the Sun Belt.

I have followed this program since birth, late 60's are my earliest memories. The historical lack of commitment from the administration is something RV had to overcome and I applaud him for sticking with this for as long as he has considering it had to be shocking upon his arrival. I do believe it is time for some new blood in the department though and fresh approach to moving us to the next level.

untcampbell · February 16, 2016

This is what reasoned discussion looks like, "disagreement without rancor," as Nathan Hecht described one talent of Antonin Scalia. Thanks to Fly for starting it, and to those that have followed with insights and discord that provide reasonable people to come to reasonable conclusions.

GMG

UNT90 · February 16, 2016

7 hours ago, VideoEagle said:

Correct. Firing RV will do absolutely nothing to change the schedule next year or the year after. I think the first chance for a change is around 2020. I wonder if there is a way to block entire threads from view? Now, every one of the contracts does have a clause to get out of the game, but that requires paying a substantial fee and I haven't seen anything suggested that will negate that fee.

Parroting "it's all RV's fault" and "RV caused the problem" does nothing at all toward fixing the problem.

Right, because this is the kind of evidence you don't want ANYONE to see.

The worst scheduling in the conference, hands down.

HoustonEagle · February 16, 2016

1 hour ago, UNTLifer said:

First, thank you "flyonthewall" for setting the record straight.

This post above is 99% on target. The part in bold is off target if you look at our history. Very good teams back in the Snake Pit/Missouri Valley Conference days and during the Blakely era of the 70's. Hit and miss since then with a few Southland titles and Johnny Jones late run in the Sun Belt.

I have followed this program since birth, late 60's are my earliest memories. The historical lack of commitment from the administration is something RV had to overcome and I applaud him for sticking with this for as long as he has considering it had to be shocking upon his arrival. I do believe it is time for some new blood in the department though and fresh approach to moving us to the next level.

you sir need a hug.

UNTLifer · February 16, 2016

Funny how a couple of years ago you were trumpeting the signing of the SMU and Army deals.

Just because you now don't like these deals doesn't make them bad. A service academy, member of a good G5 conference that is local and that we dislike, an FCS and a P5 is pretty typical outside of us getting a P5 in Apogee.

UNT90 · February 16, 2016

3 hours ago, flyonthewall said:

It has been discussed here ad nauseum, but here is my reasoning.

Football: Todd Dodge. There were two other finalist, but the president at that time would not allow him to spend the money, so the default was dodge. You can spin it, bitch about it, say I am lying, whatever, but this is the honest to gods truth.

Dan McCarney: Hired a consulting service to get the best possible candidate based on budget and other parameters. This hire looked golden on January 1, 2014, then twisted into the toilet bowl rapidly. Was given contract extension at this time, in hindsight, ill advised.

Seth Littrell: For the first time, budget was removed as a parameter, was told "Go bring us the guy that you want". From the beginning Littrell was in the top 3. It should be noted that we did not pay close to what we were willing to spend for Littrell, which leaves more money for assisants.

Basketball: Hired two coaches. Johnny Jones walked out on his two feet, Benford...........reserving comment. see previous thought "praise in public, criticize in private"

Women's Basketball: Shanice Stevens. Again, Dr. Bataille controlled the parameters of this hire, that is all I will say

Karen Aston: Great hire or bad hire? On one hand, there is no telling what she would have accomplished here, because she has the lady longhorns ranked 8th in the country at 22-2

Mike Peterson: Mind blowing how bad he was here

Shanice: jury is out, But she is the only coach in recent program hell maybe forever, that can say she is 1-0 this season against the top 25

So here is your big donor logic. Hands were tied with Dodge, not enough money given when McCarney was hired, love Littrell

Womens basketball, Aston took one of the few jobs she was going to take, and if Texas had not come calling when they did, Womens basketball would look a whole lot different now.

Mens Basketball: 50/50 on hiring, however, I think Jones underachieved.

Business leaders hire and fire people all of the time, so the above does not bother people who are used to doing this. Only recently have we had the infrastructure to justify being successful in anything, ie basketball facility upgrades, practice facility, etc. Apogee, etc. Smart people know to be patient and that continuity helps breed success.

I can not argue about wins and losses. Bill Parcells said once "You are what your record says you are". But a few people have invested millions in this thing, and they want to see it through with the guy that sold them on it.

Can't wait for the backlash this open and honest post is going to bring. There is not satire or kidding here. This is the first straight up post I have written in a while.

Excuse for every failed hire except Peterson. Not surprised.

That person has sold you a bill of goods. Look at the record. Look at the MGC numbers, or lack thereof. You are doing ALL the heavy lifting and throwing good money after bad.

If you truly care about UNT athletics, address the disease, not the symptoms. Otherwise, be prepared to keep replacing coaches every 3 years while attendance continues to sink toward unbelievably horrific numbers.

NorthTexan95 · February 16, 2016

Just now, UNTLifer said:

Funny how a couple of years ago you were trumpeting the signing of the SMU and Army deals.

Just because you now don't like these deals doesn't make them bad. A service academy, member of a good G5 conference that is local and that we dislike, an FCS and a P5 is pretty typical outside of us getting a P5 in Apogee.

I love the Army and SMU deals.

UNT90 · February 16, 2016

3 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Funny how a couple of years ago you were trumpeting the signing of the SMU and Army deals.

Just because you now don't like these deals doesn't make them bad. A service academy, member of a good G5 conference that is local and that we dislike, an FCS and a P5 is pretty typical outside of us getting a P5 in Apogee.

You talking to me? Go find that post.

UNTLifer · February 16, 2016

You sure love you some me, Awesome Sauce

HarringtonFishSmeller · February 16, 2016

3 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Funny how a couple of years ago you were trumpeting the signing of the SMU and Army deals.

Just because you now don't like these deals doesn't make them bad. A service academy, member of a good G5 conference that is local and that we dislike, an FCS and a P5 is pretty typical outside of us getting a P5 in Apogee.

I like these as well, and don't mind the FCS. To me, because of where we were/are, it made more sense to schedule games where we were competitive instead of sending the boys out to get whipped too much in OOC.

As stated back then, Kansas State did it that way, and also Texas Tech. Always for having the players build confidence and success. I also like the home and homes we had with MAC schools Ball State and Ohio. I'd be for more of that. I'd go for home and homes with MWC schools as well.

At some point, I'd like to build Tulsa into the schedule for a four to six games home and home, similar to what we did with SMU.

I've long past the days where I thought we could rise up and be an Oklahoma or Texas. It just isn't in the cards. We should focus on getting competitive where we are. So many here put the cart before the horse. Things like what happened at Baylor and TCU didn't happen overnight. It took hire after hire, year after year, for the better part of two decades.

Because we had administrations who were in no way political players to the degree Baylor and Texas Tech were, my opinion is you just have to start where you are.

Rick got us better facilities. He got us into better conferences. Are they perfect? No. But, we are not wandering as independents or in the Big West. The scheduling of series was a good step toward consistency; a way to gauge where you are from year to year. I'm not at all opposed to that.

Unless someone has a checkbook like T Boone Pickens, and wants to pony up $160+ million to the alma mater, we're going to have be patient. Baylor, TCU, Tech, Kansas State...those guys started off in the SWC and Big Eight. They were way ahead of us when the race began. Can't do anything about the past.

Give Rick credit where credit is due, please.

10 minutes ago, NorthTexan95 said:

I love the Army and SMU deals.

Ditto.

MeanGreenTexan · February 16, 2016

3 hours ago, flyonthewall said:

It has been discussed here ad nauseum, but here is my reasoning.

Football: Todd Dodge. There were two other finalist, but the president at that time would not allow him to spend the money, so the default was dodge. You can spin it, bitch about it, say I am lying, whatever, but this is the honest to gods truth.

Dan McCarney: Hired a consulting service to get the best possible candidate based on budget and other parameters. This hire looked golden on January 1, 2014, then twisted into the toilet bowl rapidly. Was given contract extension at this time, in hindsight, ill advised.

Seth Littrell: For the first time, budget was removed as a parameter, was told "Go bring us the guy that you want". From the beginning Littrell was in the top 3. It should be noted that we did not pay close to what we were willing to spend for Littrell, which leaves more money for assisants.

Basketball: Hired two coaches. Johnny Jones walked out on his two feet, Benford...........reserving comment. see previous thought "praise in public, criticize in private"

Women's Basketball: Shanice Stevens. Again, Dr. Bataille controlled the parameters of this hire, that is all I will say

Karen Aston: Great hire or bad hire? On one hand, there is no telling what she would have accomplished here, because she has the lady longhorns ranked 8th in the country at 22-2

Mike Peterson: Mind blowing how bad he was here

Shanice: jury is out, But she is the only coach in recent program hell maybe forever, that can say she is 1-0 this season against the top 25

So here is your big donor logic. Hands were tied with Dodge, not enough money given when McCarney was hired, love Littrell

Womens basketball, Aston took one of the few jobs she was going to take, and if Texas had not come calling when they did, Womens basketball would look a whole lot different now.

Mens Basketball: 50/50 on hiring, however, I think Jones underachieved.

Business leaders hire and fire people all of the time, so the above does not bother people who are used to doing this. Only recently have we had the infrastructure to justify being successful in anything, ie basketball facility upgrades, practice facility, etc. Apogee, etc. Smart people know to be patient and that continuity helps breed success.

I can not argue about wins and losses. Bill Parcells said once "You are what your record says you are". But a few people have invested millions in this thing, and they want to see it through with the guy that sold them on it.

Can't wait for the backlash this open and honest post is going to bring. There is not satire or kidding here. This is the first straight up post I have written in a while.

I really appreciate the honesty/candor here.

I have an honest, simple, hypothetical question for you. It's really a "yes" or "no" question, but you can make your answer as short or as long as you'd like:

If president Smatresk were to fire RV tomorrow, would any of the funding from our big donors such as yourself suddenly be in jeopardy? Would there be trepidation that a new guy could/would not fulfill RV's current vision for the Athletic Complex?

To give you an idea of where I, and I believe MANY OTHERS, are coming from with our limited amount of knowledge:
1. There is no doubt RV is doing some fantastic things with your help on the old golf course and LCS campus.
2. There is no doubt the results on the gridiron/hardwood have not been good.
3. There seems to be 3 camps as far as opinions on RV:
   a. Retain him and see his vision through. - I believe you, other big donors and many others fall in here.
   b. Be skeptical of RV, but stop just short of calling for his firing because "the Devil you know is better than the one you don't". - I think this camp is quite a bit larger than many realize.
   c. Fire RV as soon as possible, consequences be damned. - I think this one is much smaller than many on gmg.com believe.

Not looking for UNT90 or anyone else to answer for him.

FirefightnRick · February 16, 2016

I've heard this narrative that Stephens was forced on RV as well. My source? RV of course. He's told it to several of us and unlike most I don't buy any of it. As for Dodge, I wonder, was telling him that he couldn't hire any of Dickey's assistants also forced on RV as well?

Rick

UNT90 · February 16, 2016

3 hours ago, HarringtonFishSmeller said:

I like what RV has done because I've seen the athletic program now compared to when I set foot on campus in August 1990.

By the time RV arrived, severe damage had already been done for 30 years prior to his hire. He has undone much of that damage by restoring academic achievement and garnering donors that help build fantastic athletic facilities for every sport, men's and women's.

That the football team continues to lose is glaring. Basketball was never a power, so I don't always get the bitching and moaning about it.

I think it's wholly laughable, these days, to say RV has done nothing. It's just not true. He's done far beyond what many of us believed anyone could do. During the Dodge years, I was a huge RV detractor.

What turned me is that he called me personally and after a frank discussion, he admitted he was wrong about Dodge and told me to just watch what would happen over the next few years. I was skeptical. But, you know what? He delivered the facilities. He hired an experience coach, who did take us to another bowl game and won it.

Guys, sorry...you can judge many people in business by their perceived failures, while purposely ignoring their achievements. However, RV has done much more here right than "wrong."

If you can do better, volunteer to help the fundraising arm and get your own ass out there. I could in no way do better, so I'm not criticizing him any longer. He's brought this athletic department far out of the ditch where it had been left to rot by prior administrations and athletic directors.

UNT athletics 2016 is on a different planet that UNT athletics 1990. And, we have RV to thank for it.

If you can't admit that, then go hug a gopher's lopsided left nut.