Benford's Replacement

Dr. Seuss · February 13, 2016

Who are some names that will replace Benford. One name that comes to me is Chris Jans. I think OSU assistant is a up incoming coach; Boals?

Any other names that you can think of besides the obvious names like Cross, Fran and Underwoood?

Mean_Green09 · February 13, 2016

36 minutes ago, Dr. Seuss said:

Who are some names that will replace Benford. One name that comes to me is Chris Jans. I think OSU assistant is a up incoming coach; Boals?

Any other names that you can think of besides the obvious names like Cross, Fran and Underwoood?

Fran & Cross aren't coming. They both know about the leadership issue. Especially Fran.

Hunter Green · February 13, 2016

How about a coach, finally, that has head coaching experience?

GO MEAN GREEN!

MCMLXXX · February 13, 2016

Have we ever hired a winning high school coach for basketball? That might work. On second thought we already tried that.

2 hours ago, Dr. Seuss said:

Who are some names that will replace Benford. One name that comes to me is Chris Jans. I think OSU assistant is a up incoming coach...

We don't want an assistant unless he is a great recruiter. Right?

BillySee58 · February 13, 2016

Chris Beard would be a good pick up, IMO

Dr. Seuss · February 13, 2016

3 hours ago, Mean_Green09 said:

Fran & Cross aren't coming. They both know about the leadership issue. Especially Fran.

Yeah, I dont think either of the 3 would come. Those are just the names that I see everyone else brings up.

39 minutes ago, BillySee58 said:

Chris Beard would be a good pick up, IMO

He makes 230k at UALR, Benford makes 350k. That could happen.

UNT90 · February 13, 2016

You know what's coming...

It doesn't matter because RV will be making the hire.

#Failure.

AllGreen · February 13, 2016

Kellen Sampson, Houston Assistant

foutsrouts · February 13, 2016

I want Jank back, but unfortunately....

outoftown · February 13, 2016

No assistants thank you. There are more than 300 jobs in DI. There is no good reason for an assistant not to get a HC job somewhere before coming here. Its not like in Football where raiding a team at FBS level for its HC is not really doable. There are 10 conferences at DI that are a good notch below C-USA. Get a current HC who has had a winning record the last two seasons. And please president Smatresk ... choose the guy yourself.

Edited February 14, 2016 by outoftown

Ben Gooding · February 13, 2016

10 minutes ago, outoftown said:

No assistants thank you. There are more than 300 jobs in DI there is a good reason for an assistant not to get a HC job somewhere before coming here. Its not like in Football where raiding a team at FBS level for its HC is not really doable. There are 10 conferences at DI that are a good notch below C-USA. Get a current HC who has had a winning record the last two seasons. And please president Smatresk ... choose the guy yourself.

I second this.

I too want a cushy nice paying job where virtually every single one of my responsibilities are stripped away from me and all I have to do is show face.

BillySee58 · February 13, 2016

28 minutes ago, outoftown said:

No assistants thank you. There are more than 300 jobs in DI there is a good reason for an assistant not to get a HC job somewhere before coming here. Its not like in Football where raiding a team at FBS level for its HC is not really doable. There are 10 conferences at DI that are a good notch below C-USA. Get a current HC who has had a winning record the last two seasons. And please president Smatresk ... choose the guy yourself.

I agree that basketball is a lot different than football in that regard. At the same time, if the coach is a smart, good coach, is a genuinely good recruiter, and is a good fit here why should we exclude a guy like that just because he was an assistant? Benford hasn't worked for multiple reasons. The fact that his last job was an assistant role is a very minimal factor at best.

CBL made a very good analogy to the Texas Rangers. When they signed Chan Ho Park back in 2002 and he didn't work out, John Hart vowed to never spend big money on a free agent pitcher. Spending big money on a free agent pitcher was not the problem. Spending money on Chan Ho Park was the problem.

That being said, the two guys I want most are D1 head coaches in Scott Cross and Chris Beard. However, Chris Beard was a D2 head coach last year and I would've been just as thrilled had we brought him in after last year before he had D1 HC experience.

MCMLXXX · February 13, 2016

58 minutes ago, BillySee58 said:

That being said, the two guys I want most are D1 head coaches in Scott Cross and Chris Beard. However, Chris Beard was a D2 head coach last year and I would've been just as thrilled had we brought him in after last year before he had D1 HC experience.

Beard was an assistant under Vic Trilli for 2 years so he already has some familiarity with North Texas. In addition Beard replaced Fred Rike, who was Johnny's assistant head coach for several years at North Texas, as the Head Coach at Angelo State. Only question for Beard is if he can recruit. Does anyone know if he played a role in recruiting Trilli's first classes at NT? If he did then the answer may be yes.

Edited February 13, 2016 by MCMLXXX

Dr. Seuss · February 14, 2016

Beard also had Chris Jones at Angelo State

2 hours ago, BillySee58 said:

I agree that basketball is a lot different than football in that regard. At the same time, if the coach is a smart, good coach, is a genuinely good recruiter, and is a good fit here why should we exclude a guy like that just because he was an assistant? Benford hasn't worked for multiple reasons. The fact that his last job was an assistant role is a very minimal factor at best.

CBL made a very good analogy to the Texas Rangers. When they signed Chan Ho Park back in 2002 and he didn't work out, John Hart vowed to never spend big money on a free agent pitcher. Spending big money on a free agent pitcher was not the problem. Spending money on Chan Ho Park was the problem.

That being said, the two guys I want most are D1 head coaches in Scott Cross and Chris Beard. However, Chris Beard was a D2 head coach last year and I would've been just as thrilled had we brought him in after last year before he had D1 HC experience.

I agree with this 100%.

greenjoe · February 14, 2016

I think the only way to cool down the dumpster fire that is our Men's Basketball program, we müst hire a head coach that has been a head coach. Before anyone brings it up, I know MaC was a HC and that didn't work out. But I'm thinking a HC that might have been a HC in the last 2or 3 years. No more "up and coming" assistants please.

Everybody seems to bring in a eastern European player now days. How about a eastern European coach ? How did Russia State do this season ?

GO MEAN GREEN

Dr. Seuss · February 14, 2016

2 minutes ago, greenjoe said:

I think the only way to cool down the dumpster fire that is our Men's Basketball program, we müst hire a head coach that has been a head coach. Before anyone brings it up, I know MaC was a HC and that didn't work out. But I'm thinking a HC that might have been a HC in the last 2or 3 years. No more "up and coming" assistants please.

Everybody seems to bring in a eastern European player now days. How about a eastern European coach ? How did Russia State do this season ?

GO MEAN GREEN

Are you serious about international players? Why would you spend more money and resources scouting international players when you have better talent in the US?

I dont think there is a reason not to give Lutz an interview @TheTastyGreek

outoftown · February 14, 2016

4 hours ago, BillySee58 said:

I agree that basketball is a lot different than football in that regard. At the same time, if the coach is a smart, good coach, is a genuinely good recruiter, and is a good fit here why should we exclude a guy like that just because he was an assistant? Benford hasn't worked for multiple reasons. The fact that his last job was an assistant role is a very minimal factor at best.

CBL made a very good analogy to the Texas Rangers. When they signed Chan Ho Park back in 2002 and he didn't work out, John Hart vowed to never spend big money on a free agent pitcher. Spending big money on a free agent pitcher was not the problem. Spending money on Chan Ho Park was the problem.

That being said, the two guys I want most are D1 head coaches in Scott Cross and Chris Beard. However, Chris Beard was a D2 head coach last year and I would've been just as thrilled had we brought him in after last year before he had D1 HC experience.

I have no problem with a head coach coming from DII, as DII in basketball is still fairly similar, the kids have the same age, you still have to recruit high schools etc. He'd have to have been very successful there though.

I do believe that the bolded part isn't entierly correct though and that the comparison to Chen Ho Park isn't exactly working.It is not bad to take a risk if there is more upside than downside. CHP was a bad evaluation for a number of reasons, but spending big money on a free agent pitcher can have upsides you can't find elsewhere and make up for other shortcomings. This is simply not the case with taking an assitant BBall coach for HC at UNT vs taking a current HC. The reason to chose a HC if you can is that he has already held a very similar job and undergone some on the job training as well as that you can judge the outcome without having to extrapolate as you do with an assistant. In other words you can chose soebody whos downside will be small. If Benford should have shown us anything, then that recruiting does not matter if you don't know how to handle your recruits. Nobody said assistants can't work out as head coaches. Of course they can otherwise nobody else would ever become a new successful HC. But in this discussion taking assistants has just more downside than taking an HC, without really having more upside other than it is cheaper. But why take that risk if you do not have to? If you can get a currently succesful HC from another school that is maybe just one rungs below you (say southland etc)? I am convinced UNT doesn't have to take a risk on an assistant. If it does it is a choice, and that would simply be a stupid choice. That was my uneasiness when RV hired Benford, that he hired somebody unproven but flashy, when I am sure he could have had somebody from a smaller school, maybe less flashy, but proven. It could have worked out. But there was simply almost no upside to the choice.

Edited February 14, 2016 by outoftown

greenminer · February 14, 2016

1 hour ago, Dr. Seuss said:

Are you serious about international players? Why would you spend more money and resources scouting international players when you have better talent in the US?

I dont think there is a reason not to give Lutz an interview @TheTastyGreek

There are teams that do it and make it work.

BillySee58 · February 14, 2016

1 hour ago, outoftown said:

I have no problem with a head coach coming from DII, as DII in basketball is still fairly similar, the kids have the same age, you still have to recruit high schools etc. He'd have to have been very successful there though.

I do believe that the bolded part isn't entierly correct though and that the comparison to Chen Ho Park isn't exactly working.It is not bad to take a risk if there is more upside than downside. CHP was a bad evaluation for a number of reasons, but spending big money on a free agent pitcher can have upsides you can't find elsewhere and make up for other shortcomings. This is simply not the case with taking an assitant BBall coach for HC at UNT vs taking a current HC. The reason to chose a HC if you can is that he has already held a very similar job and undergone some on the job training as well as that you can judge the outcome without having to extrapolate as you do with an assistant. In other words you can chose soebody whos downside will be small. If Benford should have shown us anything, then that recruiting does not matter if you don't know how to handle your recruits. Nobody said assistants can't work out as head coaches. Of course they can otherwise nobody else would ever become a new successful HC. But in this discussion taking assistants has just more downside than taking an HC, without really having more upside other than it is cheaper. But why take that risk if you do not have to? If you can get a currently succesful HC from another school that is maybe just one rungs below you (say southland etc)? I am convinced UNT doesn't have to take a risk on an assistant. If it does it is a choice, and that would simply be a stupid choice. That was my uneasiness when RV hired Benford, that he hired somebody unproven but flashy, when I am sure he could have had somebody from a smaller school, maybe less flashy, but proven. It could have worked out. But there was simply almost no upside to the choice.

"CHP was a bad evaluation for a number of reasons"

Exactly. That's the point. There were misevaluations on Chan Ho Park, the individual. But those misevaluations started and ended with Chan Ho Park. They didn't extend to every free agent pitcher ever.

Tony Benford does not represent every coaching candidate with no D1 HC experience.

"But why take that risk if you don't have to? ... I am convinced UNT doesn't have to take a risk on an assistant. If it does it is a choice, and that would simply be a stupid choice."

In the event that there were two hats, the first with the names of 20 D1 assistants and the second with the names of 20 lower-prestige D1 head coaches, then yes it is riskier to draw names from the first hat. But that's not the case.

We're talking about a process that should be very extensive. If an assistant is hired because he displayed throughout a lengthy interview process that he, as an individual, was the best fit to be successful here then that's the guy we should get. Of course we need a guy making the hires to be a good judge of those sorts of things as well.

I just don't see why people insist on us being narrow-minded and excluding people based on blanket evaluations in our coaching searches.

Army of Dad · February 14, 2016

http://twemoji.maxcdn.com/svg/1f633.svg

TheWestie · February 14, 2016

golfingomez · February 14, 2016

give me this over Benford right now

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Dr. Seuss · February 14, 2016

11 hours ago, greenminer said:

There are teams that do it and make it work.

But is it cost effective?

Darrin Horn is another name. He's currently at UT under Smart, he was the old WKU coach.

Dr. Seuss · February 14, 2016

I agree, we will talk about it a lot more. I still dont know how UNT fans can generalize every previous UNT hire and say we cant do that in the future. I understand that you dont want to make the same mistake twice but most of the readers dont understand @BillySee58 points. Then they compare the two.. So would you not hire a HC with previous experience because Mac failed? That's the same reasoning why people wont want to hire an assistant for the basketball team? Or am I just reading everything incorrectly?

AllGreen · February 14, 2016

18 hours ago, outoftown said:

No assistants thank you. There are more than 300 jobs in DI. There is no good reason for an assistant not to get a HC job somewhere before coming here. Its not like in Football where raiding a team at FBS level for its HC is not really doable. There are 10 conferences at DI that are a good notch below C-USA. Get a current HC who has had a winning record the last two seasons. And please president Smatresk ... choose the guy yourself.

But who, then? We're not going to get a P5 or even a G5 Head Coach, which leaves you with the tiny schools. You'd ideally want a coach that has made the tournament, right? Well, any coach that has made the tournament already has a better job than North Texas. An assistant from say, Missouri or Baylor can be a better hire than the HC at say, Maryland Baltimore-County or UC Irvine. I know Benford was an assistant at Marquette and that didn't work out. That doesn't mean that NO assistant will ever work out ever again.

Edited February 14, 2016 by AllGreen